GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Engineering student here.

I'm currently designing a new intake manifold and would like the input of the community for what they'd like. So, what would everyone like in an intake manifold?
I'm designing it to take into account acoustic boosting (up to 0.8psi) and charge equalization.

What do you fellas want in an intake manifold?

I just want it to work. I'd be interested in seeing your design.

Salsa Guy wrote:I just want it to work. I'd be interested in seeing your design.

I should have a rough CAD model ready by the end of March. A working prototype by April is my goal.

*lurking

I shall be watching myself. Maybe try this myself on my 1ZZ as a project once I get to that point in my engineering education!

Watching, looking forward to posts as the project unfolds.

I should have concept sketches done by the end of next week. This project is part of my technical report to get my diploma so this is happening!

KITT222 wrote:I shall be watching myself. Maybe try this myself on my 1ZZ as a project once I get to that point in my engineering education!

Make sure you also make a DBW throttle body for the manifold as well. For me--er, I mean science.

Here's a little update:

I've got a rough CAD model completed, currently in the process of pulling off my stock intake manifold and getting it ready to throw on the CMM. Once I get it on the CMM, I'll be able to get some exact numbers instead of relying on my sh1tty vernier.
Done a bit of basic math and found my ideal runner area to be around 2.16" squared. I'll compare this to stock and throw some more numbers at formulas to see what sticks. Thinking 7.5" long runners into a smoother and larger plenum vs. stock. I'll do the acoustic boosting math and see if I can tune it to get something around 1psi at 7500 rpm on the second bounce. Stupid air pressure differentiation...

But right now, this was my first design:


As you can see, the bottom left section of the manifold is terrible. The fluid flow is so slow that it effectively stalls out and the flow through each runner differs by somewhere around 10%. I'm pretty much starving cylinder 1 here. I haven't seen the internals of the DD Performance manifold (seeing as it is the only example of aftermarket intake manifolds for the 2ZZ), but if it's the same cross sectional area throughout, like this, then I've got some improvements to make.

And improve I did.:


I added a slope to the interior to reduce the cross sectional area at each runner. As you can see from the simulated fluid flow, cylinder 1 is no longer starved, but simply inconvenienced slightly. There are some slight eddies and areas where fluid flow is almost non-existent. I'll take care of these by changing up the internal geometry a bit.

One solution I've found is changing the position of the throttle body; changing its attitude and position can have a huge affect on the flow to cylinder 1. I'm aiming at a more uniform fluid velocity throughout the manifold.

I'll keep you guys updated. Final CAD model should be done within the next two weeks I figure.

I need the intake manifold pressure that we run at 7500 rpm. Can someone please reply with the MAP @ 7500 rpm in a 2ZZ.

UPDATE

Started the final version in CAD of several components. I'll be doing some fluid flow on some ideas I've had for the internal shape of the plenum. More to come

I like it, good to see the process going to the next level.

This is looking pretty cool! Is that NX I see?

How is the design coming along? Do you have any actual plans for manufacture? Any idea on method of manufacture - i.e. sand cast, investment cast, or fabricated?

I may have some contacts (in Ontario even) to help put this in production, and could help with design for manufacture myself as well.

Heck, I'd be interested in learning about your design for that matter! I'm a mechanical engineer myself; I design/test/inspect water pumps.

BlackbeardBen wrote:This is looking pretty cool! Is that NX I see?

How is the design coming along? Do you have any actual plans for manufacture? Any idea on method of manufacture - i.e. sand cast, investment cast, or fabricated?

I may have some contacts (in Ontario even) to help put this in production, and could help with design for manufacture myself as well.

Heck, I'd be interested in learning about your design for that matter! I'm a mechanical engineer myself; I design/test/inspect water pumps.

I've just done a CMM report on the existing manifold and can finally start the final design. The final design should take shape within the next three weeks or so. I've been leaning towards fully fabricated, simply because I can weld aluminum and had a means to machine the major components. Unfortunately I no longer have access to a machine shop, seeing as one of the idiot students decided to play patty-cake with a CNC mill.

Finding a cost effective way to produce this is now my major concern.

I'll be sure to keep you in the loop!

arrowracer76,

I sent you another PM - I've got lots of gears grinding in my head with ideas for this! I definitely want to see this through.

Does your school have a 3D printer? Should be the most cost effective for a short run - not sure about the durability tho.

Looking forward to updates. Sorry to hear about the CNC mill.

SomeYahoo wrote:Does your school have a 3D printer? Should be the most cost effective for a short run - not sure about the durability tho.

We do have a 3D printer, but it's far too small to print anything useful. Not to mention it uses low melt PVC for the additive. I could make a 1/2 scale model, but nothing good enough for use.

ImUrOBGYN wrote:Looking forward to updates. Sorry to hear about the CNC mill.

I should be giving more updates within a week. It's just such a pain scheduling taking the existing manifold out of my car for measurements and tests between the times I actually need to use the car ha ha ha.

Thanks for the interest everyone!

How is the design coming along? Coming from another engineering student; I think this is one of the coolest projects I've seen, since you and other enthusiasts like us will actually benefit from the product you're designing. Anyway, put me on the list for one, preferably on the top of the list if possible haha

williyum96 wrote:How is the design coming along? Coming from another engineering student; I think this is one of the coolest projects I've seen, since you and other enthusiasts like us will actually benefit from the product you're designing. Anyway, put me on the list for one, preferably on the top of the list if possible haha

Designing is at a standstill and has been for a few days. I plan to get all of the major dimensions completed by next week. Hopefully start the absolute final design soon. Matt at MWR has shown interest in testing the manifold once it's completed. Pretty much anyone with a 2ZZ or even a 1ZZ with an adapter plate will benefit.

Little update guys;

I've had some major issues with timing these days so the work has been at a bit of a standstill. Until today that is.

I've started the final draft and have a few little things to play with as it goes on. I'll have the completed version done by next week.

Another update!

So, I've been spending all of my free time on this trying to get it completed. And I believe that I've got the final version DONE. Albeit make a few drawings and material callouts.

So here it is. This is what a properly designed aftermarket intake manifold looks like!


Here's a CFD screengrab for those of you who want to take a look at how it flows. I've almost eliminated cylinder starvation, this is a huge development!


Here you'll see how I accomplished this. The tubes that extend into the plenum act as air dams, blocking air and increasing the pressure in the driver's side of the plenum. This helps to increase the flow rate to cylinders 3 and 4, which were starved like mad with the OEM intake manifold, my first design, and the DD Performance Research manifold.



So there it is! Once I finish all of the technical documentation that goes along with this, proving my theories and such, I'll be having a prototype produced!




What do you guys think? Would you buy one?

Like it! Can't wait to see how the prototype turns out. Have a 1zz, otherwise would consider getting one. Going to have someone built the prototype, or work hands on at a machine shop? Will the distribution chamber size require any special considerations during installation?

Sweet! It looks great. I'm eager to hear how it works out.

That depends, Batman Icon. Depends on the cost and whether I can force you to build an adapter to fit the 1ZZ. If so, I may even move on to another project. In like 3 years or so, but still.

Aha, you've finally made an update! I've been busy lately and stopped checking after a while.

Interesting, that's quite the design. Looks like it should be fairly easy to fabricate.

One possibility I had thought about is to use your 3D printers at school to print a plastic mold for investment casting wax. You could assemble the mold from several smaller pieces that your school's machine could make. The mold would be a negative, the wax a positive. The tooling is usually the most expensive part of starting manufacturing, and if you expect any sort of quantity the casting may be easier and cheaper.

I'm interested regardless of how you do it.

Another thought - the PPE intake manifold uses an 85mm throttle body off of an Infinity - much bigger than (double the cross sectional area of) our 60mm stock throttle body. Maybe that is something to consider as well. With that change, the intake has to be considered as well since the stock size/location no longer applies.

Has this project gone to a conclusion yet? Would this mod provide any help for the lack of low end torque from a stop?
Steve

Great to see it coming along. I would definitely be interested at some point.

BTW, I'm completely open to being used as a tester/test car! I'm bone stock, drivetrain-wise, and in excellent running condition.

Did any prototypes ever get made?