2009 Vibe won't start

[Merlin.TRD]

Went to start my 2009 1.8L Vibe this morning and she won't start.
Battery is good, she cranks fine, but won't start.

Can't hear the fuel pump, so I'm suspecting that.
I can hear a relay "click" under the hood but I know that could be a red herring for many reasons.

I put the battery charger on her for few hours just to be sure, same deal.
Also tried disconnecting the battery for an hour and tried, no joy.

I have a fuel pressure tester, but I can't find the fuel test port.
I'm unable to pull the spark plugs because I don't have a 14mm spark plug socket. I tried a regular 14mm deep socket and a regular 9/16 deep socket but neither worked.

There is no single fuel pump fuse (that I could find), but I checked several under the hood, no issues.
http://www.pontiac.com/content/dam/pont ... manual.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Section 9-37

Here's the recent history of the car.
2009 1.8L Pontiac Vibe, 130,000km on the clock.

The car was parked outside on Friday night (she's normally kept in doors).
Driven for 30 seconds Saturday night to pull it into the garage.
I replaced all my brake pads & rotors on Sunday and did a brake bleed (never tired to turn the engine over). I should mention that the rotors were stuck quite badly and it took about 5mins of using penetrant and a rubber mallet to get each of them off.

I thought the car maybe flooded, since she only ran for a few seconds on Saturday but and when I came home this evening it still won't start.

If it comes down to a fuel pump, how hard a procedure is that? I think I need a special tool for removing it (something I read online).
If you can think of anything I'm missing please let me know.

[JohnO]

Sure sounds like a fuel pump. I've heard of people being able to revive a stuck fuel pump by banging on the bottom of the fuel tank with a 2x4. It can turn the motor shaft just a little so the brushes will make contact again and the motor will start.

I don't think it is too hard to replace. There is an access hatch under the rear seat, at least up to '08.

[Merlin.TRD]

So I pulled the spark plugs.

Counting from the left, 1, 3 & 4 fire nice and bright.
#2 is EXTREMELY faint

So I switched plugs 1 & 2, the plug that resides in #2 always fires faint. The plug that was in it, operates fine in the #1 position.

I then changed (what I call "the boot") (it's more than just a boot because it has wiring and a connector at the top of it) #2 cylinder still fires very faint.

Think this maybe the issue, or should I keep moving on and testing other things?

[Rayven01]

That's definitely not a good thing but I wouldn't expect it to cause a no-start. The other three cylinders should still drive the engine even with a completely dead plug, just with less power.

The 'boot' is called a coil pack. Each cylinder has a separate electronically controlled ignition coil rather than an old style single coil with a mechanical distributor and plug wires. Still the same principal in switching it, though. If you swapped coil packs and cylinder two has the same issue it's not the pack. Not sure what else would cause that on just one cylinder, though.. that about exhausts my layman's knowledge of the modern ignition system.

[Merlin.TRD]

Ok took the rear seat out and found the top of the fuel pump.

Took off the connector, 4 pins
One has current when she cranks.

So from reading online I need a special tool to take off the cover for the fuel pump.

[JohnO]

Autozone loans a set of tools for fuel pump removal:

http://www.autozone.com/autozone/access ... 605758_0_0_" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I can't tell from the photo but it looks like it might include an appropriate one for Toyota.

[Merlin.TRD]

Sadly there isn't an Autozone here, looks like I'll be using a hammer.

I'm thinking I should open it up and take out the fuel pump, then try to run it to see if it runs.
If it doesn't, then order a new fuel pump.

[Merlin.TRD]

Ok I didn't take the fuel pump out, but I did apply 12v to it and it does run.

[Merlin.TRD]

Does anyone know where the fuel pump relay is located?
Can't seem to find it in the manual or by visually inspecting the fuse boxes under the hood and dash.


Also does anyone know where the fuel filter is located?

[JohnO]

For 2007 anyway (the year that I have a manual for) it is on the instrument panel junction box above the driver's side kick panel. It is labeled "C/OPN Relay".

Pin 4 is the +12 from the relay at the fuel pump connector and pin 5 is ground. You mentioned that you had measured +12 on one pin before. Also, you might try reattaching the fuel pump to the connector and see if it will run since removing it may have "fixed" it if the problem is the brushes.

There is no fuel filter. Only a sock on the fuel pump pickup.

[Merlin.TRD]

Yea as soon as I found I had voltage there I put her back together and tried it, nothing.

Later, I took off the fuel rail and put a ton of rags under the injectors and had my wife turn over the car a few times.
I'm fairly sure all injectors spat a small amount of fuel onto the rags for a second or two until the fuel pressure popped the number 2 and 3 injectors off spilling fuel onto the rag... and down the side of the engine a little.... oopps

I think this rules out a bad fuel pump and/or bad fuel pressure.
I checked the firing order, it's good too.

So if I have "good" spark (on 3 out of 4 at least) and fuel.... (removed) is it?

I'll run a compression test tomorrow, what should I be looking for with PSI?

PS-I went to every store in the area looking for a Haynes manual, they only had 03-08 in stock so I've ordered an 03-11 online. Should arrive on Monday.... doesn't really help me because if I don't get this fixed by the weekend I won't have a car until after Xmas. On the plus side it means I won't have to drive down to visit the in-laws.

[JohnO]

The minimum compression spec is 145 psi, nominal is 189 psi.

You might try using some starter fluid also. If it runs on starter fluid then the problem is in the fuel delivery somehow.

[Merlin.TRD]

Sorry forgot to mention I did try some "Quick Start". Nothing.

I'll try a compression test in the morning.

[JohnO]

Also, if you have a scan tool check for error codes.

[Merlin.TRD]

Sorry trying so many things I forgot to mention that as well.... checked several times for error codes.... none.

[binder]

Did you ever solve the no start problem? If you were getting fuel and spark, I could only think of timing chain or possibly an ECU issue?

[cj7ole]

I have had this problem four times. Towed it to the dealer the last time. It is a known issue with the 2009 Vibe (and maybe others). They claim it has to do with valves sticking open and loss of compression due to carbon buildup. And they try to blame it on using poor quality fuel, which I do not do. Mine is sitting in the garage right now waiting for Monday to call the tow truck again. Look up PIP3146d. I paid $160 last April for them to "removed fuel rail and cleaned to top of the intake valves and reinstalled rail". Plus another $130 for a "fuel induction maintenance". I think it is time to sell the Vibe and get one of those new Jeep Cherokees.

[Admeco]

Did you solve this? I'm having similar issues with '09, 1.8L, manual.

Noticed rough idle two days ago. Assumed it was time for another ignition coil to blow out, as I've had to replace one ~15k miles, often position 1 or 2. Car then died yesterday on a hill. But trip computer detected nothing, so assuming it's not a coil now. Fuel tank and pump do not buzz in On position. Engine cranks fine, all other electrical appears fine. Banged on the tank hard last night and let it sit a while. It started and ran smooth for three minutes this morning before dying again.

I had an engine-chocking sound last summer and ignition issues. I replaced fuel pump assuming fuse in pump had gone out. That fixed the issue. Today, I assume that fuse is still good. I've always assumed there's a grounding issue with ignition coils going out 20-50k miles early, but wouldn't know why it would migrate to fuel pump this time.

Live in a desert area, so I assume dirt gets in the gas. I've not worked on the EVAP system before, as original poster referenced valve issues. But perhaps that's next. Any thoughts?

[Admeco]

Same happened this morning, started smooth and ran smooth for three minutes, then died. Cranks fine, but no ignition after. I'm not as confident about EVAP theory after reading more about issue. But also lost as if it were the fuse in the fuel pump that went out, it shouldn't start at all after resting 12 hours, correct?

Any thoughts would help.

[Admeco]

Update: After last crank, start, then die, I finally get four computer codes, p0300 p0302 p0303 p0304. Popped out ignition coils and found one that was heavily corroded, but warrantied. So I replaced the coil and all spark plugs. I get ignition immediately, but it dies after ten seconds. But the computer codes also went away. My best guess is that this was two problems, one of which I've now solved. The other I'm still guessing is in EVAP system/ IAC valve. Any guesses?

[kurtwin]

I'm having a similar issue on my 2009. Cranks over, but won't start. Tested the coils with a multimeter and one seemed bad (no ohms from output to input) so I replaced that one, but it still won't start. Don't hear the fuel pump hum at all, so that may be my issue, not sure yet. Also cleaned the carbon out of the IAC per a video I saw online, but that didn't help.

[AceBoyd93]

Same problem here, cranks over fine and sputters but will not stay running. No codes. I'm wondering if anyone came to any useful conclusions. I'm leaning towards the ECU but don't want to just replace it without making sure.

[AceBoyd93]

I know these forums are waning but I want to post this in case it helps someone. I replaced the fuel pump but failed to install the o-ring between the pump and the housing. I don't remember seeing one that come with the replacement fuel pump but I may have missed it. It's a small one that goes into the discharge side of the fuel pump, smaller than a dime. I had to dig my old pump out of the trash to use it's o-ring but I got it installed and she fired up just fine. Hope this helps someone.