GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

I was driving my car and when I turned left my car made a loud grinding sound and eventually came to a stop. Now, when I put it in drive or reverse its making the same noise and I'm unable to drive or reverse. Also, while in park when I push the car
it moves.

thebarber wrote:Snarky or not, he's right....how could you not think the tranny is cooked?

Because maybe the OP suspects it's the transmission, but doesn't know if maybe it could be something else. Or maybe the OP is not as knowledgeable about cars. Not everyone is. I know I'm certainly not. Just because you know a lot about something doesn't mean everyone else does.

creekhed1 wrote:It wasnt a joke>?
I seriously did not think OP was serious!

I didnt mean to be "snarky"... but when a tranny grinds to a halt and wont go on either direction that means only one thing ...

And....its YOUR post that is venomous,....not mine! I was kidding!

If you read your comment as if you were a stranger, I'm sure you'll agree that there's no way someone would take what you said as "kidding". And that's at least the second time (that I've seen, let alone anyone else) that you've posted something that was supposedly "kidding" that would never in a million years be construed as kidding by anyone.

If you think I'm being venomous, it's because everyone else on this board is pretty helpful and nice, and you're the only person I've seen whose "kidding" always sounds indistinguishable from "being a condescending jerk." Plus, this was the OP's first post, he/she has a major and potentially expensive mechanical issue on his/her hands, comes here asking for help, and the first reply he/she gets is someone making that kind of "joke"? Really?

Do whatever you want, but personally I'd love to see more helpful responses (especially to newcomers) and less "kidding", if that's what you're saying you're really trying to do. And in deference to the OP hopefully getting more assistance with his/her question in this thread, that's the last I'm going to say on this subject.

Time for a new(er) ride.

canadave is right.

creekhed1, new people join our forum looking for help. The snarky/sarcastic responses you think you are posting appear rude and off putting to everyone else.

ed357, call around to local transmission shops and see what their inspection rates are, and ask for an estimate on a rebuild. There can be a big difference in cost between a national brand and a local shop, but the work they do is typically the same. I've found the smaller shops tend to be more helpful in describing the problem and less expensive.
From the description you provided it appears something catastrophic may have happened inside your transmission. Depending on the amount of damage you will likely be presented with a few options.
1. Rebuild the your transmission. Depending on the damage level this might be the best route. They will take your transmission apart asses the damage and replace the parts that are bad. If the transmission case is damaged this likely isn't an option.
2. Buy a new transmission. This is usually the most expensive. These normally come with a full manufacture warranty.
3. Buy a re-manufactured transmission. These are used transmissions that have been rebuilt by a company that specializes in this type of work (like http://www.jasperengines.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ). These also come with a warranty.
4. Buy a used transmission. This might not be presented as an option depending on the shop because of the extra leg work involved in finding a good transmission. Use the website http://car-part.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to look for transmissions in your area, you should be able to find one with the description "tested good" and under 50k miles. When looking at the prices listed remember that is for the transmission it self, shipping and installation are separate. Used transmissions sometimes come with a warranty, talk to the seller and the shop doing the work.

You will also need to figure out if the car is worth the repair. If it's worth less than it's going to cost to fix, then you'll have a decision to make.

As canadave mentioned remember to set the parking brake.

Creekhed1, Yes, I was serious. Not everyone has knowledge regarding cars. I thought it was the tranny, but I wanted to confirm and also get more opinions. I also was told that it can be that the transaxle broke. Anyway, thanks everyone for the help and replies.

ed357 wrote:Creekhed1, Yes, I was serious. Not everyone has knowledge regarding cars. I thought it was the tranny, but I wanted to confirm and also get more opinions. I also was told that it can be that the transaxle broke. Anyway, thanks everyone for the help and replies.

In front wheel drive cars the word transaxle and transmission mean the same thing.

Would be helpful to know what year and mileage. Also location - maybe someone here would be able to recommend a mechanic. I suppose it is possible that the transmission is not toast - sometimes a total loss of function is something less complicated. Don't transmissions usually go out with a whimper? Not with a bang? Fear the worst but hope for the best.

I'm in Bronx ny, It's a 2004 vibe with 170,000 miles on it. May I add, that the tranny was never slipping.

Have you tried looking under the car to see if there is any fluid leaking and verify the axles are intact? You shouldn't need to jack the car up to see what I'm talking about.

over the years at genvibe, I don't think anyone has reported an auto tranny failing that way before. However, we have had people report similar symptoms when a CV joint in the drive axle completely failed. A failed CV joint or axle would let one wheel free spin, and any torque from the engine would go to spinning the broken axle stub instead of the other wheel. However, I can't remember ever checking to see if park in an auto tranny independently locks both wheels or if it would allow a car to roll if one axle was broke.

One thing I like about genvibe is people here are more worried about helping each other and the new folks that join up than they are about expressing the kind of internet bravado found on most car forums. There is no automotive knowledge or skill threshold requirement. If someone were to post up to ask which way to turn the key to start the car, it's better to answer the question or not reply at all. Genvibe karma points are accumulated only by helping others. One thing to watch for is that communications in real life are aided by tone of voice, body language, facial expressions, etc. Here on the inter tubes, we've only got what's typed, leaves a lot to be inferred. We don't need to get super sensitive care bears saccharine happy about everything, but consider that the person asking the question has a problem, and in this case, the possibility of being faced with the cost and hassle of a major mechanical repair. Serious suckage, warrants some degree of sympathy.

Yes, there was no fluid leaking and the axles are intact.

ed357 wrote:Yes, there was no fluid leaking and the axles are intact.

If you're not emotionally invested then it may be time to look for something else. Tranny repairs are never cheap.

Can anyone recommend an honest mechanic in the Bronx?
No matter what make, at 170,000 miles and almost 10 years a car has one foot in the grave and another on a banana peel. A friend of mine a few years ago had a Corolla transmission c r a p out at a little over 100,000. But until someone with a lot more expertise than me looks at it who knows for sure. Maybe its the computer module.

I don't know anything about cars so I can't help point you in the right direction, but one thing that I heard once on the radio or TV or something ~shrug~ was that "even a new transmission is going to cost you a lot less than a whole new car" and after I heard that I always thought about it with future cars. When I first started buying cars for myself, after say 5 years, I'd be in the mindset "well things are gonna start to go wrong so it's probably time to start looking for something new" but after that little bit of insight I always asked myself "is the cost of this repair plus the potential life span the car has left going to cost me less than $15,000 over the next five years?" because ultimately that's the trade off (I'm operating under the assumption your '04 is paid off). A, say, $3K tranny vs. ~$10K for a decent used car or $20K for a new one in the more economy class styles. I understand your car has a decent amount of miles on it but honestly if you end up having to get a new transmission then at least that's one repair you'll never have to do again. If the car gives you another ~150K with no car payment thanks to the new(er) transmission you've put in it, I'd say that's pretty worth it.

Another 150,000 miles on a car already with 150,000 miles is for the most part wishful thinking. It could happen . . but.
Then there are a lot of other things that can go wrong. A lot depends on what you can afford, the value you put on not having to put up with car issues, and also how much you value driving a new (or newer) car. It's worth a lot to me to have reliable transportation with little more to worry about than routine maintenance. When something goes wrong it is hard to find a reliable honest shop to do the work. Even if you have to finance, it may come down to whether you want to make car payments or pay repair bills.

ed357 wrote:I was driving my car and when I turned left my car made a loud grinding sound and eventually came to a stop. Now, when I put it in drive or reverse its making the same noise and I'm unable to drive or reverse. Also, while in park when I push the car
it moves.

I'm sorry to revive this thread, but I'm experiencing exactly the same symptoms as ed357 and I wonder if he figured out what was wrong with his transmission.

I recently purchased an 03 Vibe base model with the Automatic tranny FWD, with what I though was a bad transmission. The previous owner claimed that he was driving normally, when it came to a red light and then tried to go, the car wouldn't go. The I put the transmission in D or R or L or 2, the transmission just growls but the car doesnt' move. We though the transmission was toast, so I found a used transmission from a Matrix with a torque converter and swapped it into the Vibe. I also replaced one of the CV axles, used new filter and fluid and double checked everything to make sure the installation was perfect. But when the moment of truth arrived, the transmission did exactly the same, it growls when you put t in D or R, doesn't move, and if you put the car in Park, it will still move if you push it. The car has 140K miles, and the transmission supposedely had around 70K when the donor car was involved in an accident.

It would be very unlucky if the donor transmission had exactly the same issues as the one I replaced. Does anyone have any idea where I should look at? Thank y'all

Smell the transmission fluid and see if it smells burnt.

It kind of sounds like the problem may be due to a problem with the shifter or electronics, rather than the transmission. When you shift gears, can you feel the car go to engage them? Do your RPMs change? Is your check engine light on? Have you checked fluid levels on the transmission?

I had somewhat the same thing happen to a Dodge Mini Van, it was the torque converter, one side came loose.

blacksaabath wrote:

ed357 wrote:I was driving my car and when I turned left my car made a loud grinding sound and eventually came to a stop. Now, when I put it in drive or reverse its making the same noise and I'm unable to drive or reverse. Also, while in park when I push the car
it moves.

I'm sorry to revive this thread, but I'm experiencing exactly the same symptoms as ed357 and I wonder if he figured out what was wrong with his transmission.

I recently purchased an 03 Vibe base model with the Automatic tranny FWD, with what I though was a bad transmission. The previous owner claimed that he was driving normally, when it came to a red light and then tried to go, the car wouldn't go. The I put the transmission in D or R or L or 2, the transmission just growls but the car doesnt' move. We though the transmission was toast, so I found a used transmission from a Matrix with a torque converter and swapped it into the Vibe. I also replaced one of the CV axles, used new filter and fluid and double checked everything to make sure the installation was perfect. But when the moment of truth arrived, the transmission did exactly the same, it growls when you put t in D or R, doesn't move, and if you put the car in Park, it will still move if you push it. The car has 140K miles, and the transmission supposedely had around 70K when the donor car was involved in an accident.

It would be very unlucky if the donor transmission had exactly the same issues as the one I replaced. Does anyone have any idea where I should look at? Thank y'all

As I mentioned a year ago, if you're not emotionally invested in the car, it may be wise to cut your losses and get something else.

WOW, What a puzzle!
Have you looked underneath to ensure neither axle is is spinning in its hub? Have you checked for proper shifter movement at the transmission? Long-shots, I know. The fact that it moves in PARK eliminates the torque converter/flywheel and leaves only a failure AFTER the transmission.

I am not sure about this, Chiadog:

The fact that it moves in PARK eliminates the torque converter/flywheel and leaves only a failure AFTER the transmission.

I think what he said was that in "P" the car can be pushed. That means the parking pawl does not engage.

I have the feeling there is something wrong with the shift cable or shifter assembly. Anyway, that is the first thing that I would check, then on to the drive shafts....

Thank you for your input guys.

As lannvouivbre suggested, I also though that the issue was with the electronics rather than anything with the mechanicals of the transmission. I read about the ECU's failing on these cars so I bought a cheap one in ebay. I swapped the ECU's and no avail. I then went and check the ECU connections to see if the Neutral Safety Switch was sending the signal, stop light, throttle sensor, etc, as described in the procedure here: http://carolinadsm.com/alan/matrix/2003 ... 037ect.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Everything checked good, except I couldn't check a signal from the Speed Sensor, I measured its resistance and it seemed way off, so I ran to the wreckyard and got a couple. I installed it, and still no go. I then aligned the Neutral Safety Switch as described in the shop manual, the cable operates the switch and lever normally. All gears seem to engage properly, is just that when I go into R or D, the transmission grinds. So I think the brake and lever are working properly, but something is not meshing well and causing the grind.

I will focus on the mechanics again, I used the torque converter that came with the donor transmission, it look cleaned, no debris and no dirty fluid inside, but neither the old torque converter seemed dirty. The LH axle didn't come up easily, so I replaced it with a new one, the RH seemed good and it went in easily, but I will raise the car tomorrow, engage it in D and see if they do anything (other than grinding). The fluid is new (no burnt smell, although ATF is not the best smelling lubricant) the level is good too.

I tried to contact ed357 to see if he was able to fix his issue since it sounds identical to what I'm having, but I'm too new in the forum to PM anyone, so the system didn't let me contact hime. Could someone reach out to him and ask him if he fixed it?

Thank you again, I'm not giving up on this Vibe yet.

I think that guy hasn't been on since the four posts he made a year ago.

So besides the growling, can you feel the car try to change the gears? Should feel a kind of sliding feeling of the weight in front kind of shifting.

Can you still roll it in park? The Park gear is actually a lever that hooks onto gear teeth--that parking pawl mentioned earlier.

How are you checking the fluid level? Warmed up on a level surface after shifting through the gears as per the manual? I have known some very experienced mechanics who did not know how to check it. Luckily for us, it has a dipstick instead of having to warm it up and check from under the car.

From ProDemand:
Does not move in any forward positions: Forward clutch
Does not move in reverse: Direct clutch, 1st and reverse brake, U/D brake.
Does not move in any position: Valve body, torque converter clutch, oil pump, U/D one-way clutch, front planetary gear, rear planetary gear.

Did I already ask if you have any DTCs?

blacksaabath wrote:Thank you for your input guys.

....I will focus on the mechanics again, I used the torque converter that came with the donor transmission, it look cleaned, no debris and no dirty fluid inside, but neither the old torque converter seemed dirty.....
Thank you again, I'm not giving up on this Vibe yet.

You should be able to rule out the torque converter/flywheel. You can remove an engine and PARK will still work! So for my 2 cents, its the transmission or driveline down stream.
Does it make any noise when you push it in PARK?

two more thoughts:

When you have it on the jack stands and it makes the grinding sound use a stethoscope to track down where exactly it comes from. A piece of garden hose makes a good stethoscope.

You still have the old converter. Have it bench tested at a shop. If it makes that very sound then you know you need at least a new converter.

If it turns out to be a bad transmission I would be interested to know what exactly broke. The sun gear, or the pump, or whatever.

ed357 wrote:Yes, there was no fluid leaking and the axles are intact.

The cv joint can still be broken inside the boot. You said it happened during a turn so a bad cv joint is a very likely possibility.

Bingo!!!

As suggested by you guys, I lifted the car and spun the wheels to see if something was off. Turns out, the LH side CV axle wasn't engaging the transaxle all the time. The RH would turn OK. I then started the car and put it in D, the grinding noise came immediately, but after 3 seconds, it would engage the gears and make them turn. At this point it seemed clear that the LH CV axle wasn't right, so I removed it and sure enough, even though it was "Rebuilt like new" it had came loose from inside the boot at the tripod joint. I wouldn't have noticed it because everything looked normal and the CV axle was supposedely good.

The shop was able to get me another rebuilt axle, which I accepted reluctantly, but I had already paid for it. I installed it making sure that everything was in place and torqued properly and voila, the car moved, transmission engaged without a single grind. Test drove it on the freeway and all looks good.

So, the moron, mean, the morale of the story is; don't overlook the simple things. I read at the Matrix forums that a few people had similar symptoms, most of them on manual transmissions, but the tripod on the LH side CV axle are prone to issues. I suspected that was the original problem when I bought the car the symptoms were the same and when finally got the old CV axle out, it came out in two pieces, with the inner part stuck to the transaxle. The previous owner was told he had a bad transmission and I naively believed it, so I went through all the hassle of replacing transmission, ECU, Speed sensors, etc and a simple CV axle would have probably corrected the issue. All these years working on cars and I still make rookie mistakes, but hopefully I'll learn.

So, there you are. Thank y'all guys for your very valuable input. You pointed me at the right direction and thanks to you, I'm able to save another Vibe from the wreckyard. Yay!

Thanks for the information. This could be very helpful for members down the road! Glad it turned out OK.

Nice! Glad you got it sorted.