GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

I have an '03 base Vibe with the 1zz and for the past few years during the winter months when cold, the engine runs upwards of 1800-2000 rpm's @ idle before reaching operating temp. It idles high enough to the point that it sounds like there is a governor that kicks the rpm's down to 1200 and then surges back up again to 2000 again and the cycle repeats until operating temp. There are no codes and everything else is fine. It just revs high and does the surge thing up and down on warm up. Anyone else encounter this or know what this issue is?

Thanks - Mike

sounds like the cold "idle hunting" issue some of us have had. I don't know if there is a definitive answer on it. Mine used to do it, but I haven't noticed since I started keeping the Vibe in a garage all the time, and I guess it never gets cold enough to manifest the issue.

For some background, work through these threads
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=7448" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=16295" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=12664" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Mine stopped after I put the supercharger on. I'm thinking a vacuum leak of some sort or something with the IAC. I use to rev over 2000 then drop to about 1500 then back up. It did this until the first "step down" when warming up. Even after replacing the IAC and doing the throttle body gasket.

hotbug1776 wrote:Mine stopped after I put the supercharger on. I'm thinking a vacuum leak of some sort or something with the IAC. I use to rev over 2000 then drop to about 1500 then back up. It did this until the first "step down" when warming up. Even after replacing the IAC and doing the throttle body gasket.

Did you say supercharger???

I have an intake manifold gasket that I plan to put on 1 of these days when I get some free time (I read someplace that those are a good thing to replace in regards to PM - I have ~ 119,000 miles on my '03 so it's probably a good thing to do I suppose) and I will be putting in a throttle body spacer at that time too. I will start with the vacuum leak seek and destroy mission with the intake manifold gasket. I did put a new TB gasket on when I put on a CAI but that didn't help the revving issue.

mntn-biker wrote:

hotbug1776 wrote:Mine stopped after I put the supercharger on. I'm thinking a vacuum leak of some sort or something with the IAC. I use to rev over 2000 then drop to about 1500 then back up. It did this until the first "step down" when warming up. Even after replacing the IAC and doing the throttle body gasket.

Did you say supercharger???

I have an intake manifold gasket that I plan to put on 1 of these days when I get some free time (I read someplace that those are a good thing to replace in regards to PM - I have ~ 119,000 miles on my '03 so it's probably a good thing to do I suppose) and I will be putting in a throttle body spacer at that time too. I will start with the vacuum leak seek and destroy mission with the intake manifold gasket. I did put a new TB gasket on when I put on a CAI but that didn't help the revving issue.

Yes supercharger. Lol
And the intake may have been the culprit. Seeing as I put a new gasket on with copper sealant (not the spray on like was in the install manual).

May be related to the defective Toyota intake gaskets. They caused lean condition when the engine was cold in cold weather. Once engine heated up, problem goes away. See the attached PDF document. Toyota has a special intake gasket to fix this problem.

Charles

hotbug1776 wrote: And the intake may have been the culprit. Seeing as I put a new gasket on with copper sealant (not the spray on like was in the install manual).

Could you clarify what you mean by "the intake may have been the culprit"? It sounds as though when you replaced the throttle body gasket the surging persisted but when you replaced the intake manifold gasket (during your supercharger installation) the surging stopped. Is that correct? I have the same issue with idle hunting when cold. Trying to get rid of the annoying thing.

* EDIT: Just reread your post. Now I think I understand. You were not specifically referring to the intake manifold gasket but the entire intake system (which I presume is significantly changed after supercharger installation).

biodieselrabbit wrote:

hotbug1776 wrote: And the intake may have been the culprit. Seeing as I put a new gasket on with copper sealant (not the spray on like was in the install manual).

Could you clarify what you mean by "the intake may have been the culprit"? It sounds as though when you replaced the throttle body gasket the surging persisted but when you replaced the intake manifold gasket (during your supercharger installation) the surging stopped. Is that correct? I have the same issue with idle hunting when cold. Trying to get rid of the annoying thing.

* EDIT: Just reread your post. Now I think I understand. You were not specifically referring to the intake manifold gasket but the entire intake system (which I presume is significantly changed after supercharger installation).

It was most likely the intake gasket, as even in frigid temps the motor doesn't surge anymore. The intake gasket is a much discussed item on the forums as being defective. Causing codes and engine issues until being replaced. It's not a major job but its not an air filter or oil change either.

hotbug1776 wrote:

biodieselrabbit wrote:

hotbug1776 wrote: And the intake may have been the culprit. Seeing as I put a new gasket on with copper sealant (not the spray on like was in the install manual).

Could you clarify what you mean by "the intake may have been the culprit"? It sounds as though when you replaced the throttle body gasket the surging persisted but when you replaced the intake manifold gasket (during your supercharger installation) the surging stopped. Is that correct? I have the same issue with idle hunting when cold. Trying to get rid of the annoying thing.

* EDIT: Just reread your post. Now I think I understand. You were not specifically referring to the intake manifold gasket but the entire intake system (which I presume is significantly changed after supercharger installation).

It was most likely the intake gasket, as even in frigid temps the motor doesn't surge anymore. The intake gasket is a much discussed item on the forums as being defective. Causing codes and engine issues until being replaced. It's not a major job but its not an air filter or oil change either.

I have my new (Toyota) intake gasket but have not had time to install it yet. When I get around to replacing it, I will post up if the idling issue is rectified.

I just replaced my intake manifold gasket and throttle body gasket as documented here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=33056" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
But my better half drove the car yesterday and said it surged a couple times. Much less than usual but still definitely happened. The old manifold gasket was leaking for sure but I was discouraged that the idle hunting did not just disappear. I did not use gasket sealant on either gaskets so maybe that is it?

Finally was able to make some time to change out the IM gasket. Super simple job to do and it appears as though my winter cold temp warm up idling issue has been solved.

As an update, when I only changed out my intake manifold gasket and throttle body gasket I still experienced some (albeit reduced) idle hunting in cold temperatures. However, recently I cleaned out my IACV valve, replaced the IACV gasket (between IACV and throttle body) and sprayed the MAF sensor. After doing this the idle hunting appears to be gone. Since temperatures have warmed up some (>40 F) have not had the chance to fully test it out below freezing yet. Might be waiting until next winter to know for sure.

Interesting mpg increase after replacing the IM gasket and some other minor mods. Details here:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=40494

Looks like I'll be putting on an intake gasket. I'm starting to see erratic idle speeds in cold temperatures. I keep checking with the ScanGauge, no codes. The Toyota TSB (EG045-07) that seems to go along with this problem indicates a P0171 but not here...

• - Started it up on two occasions, one was 17F and the other 18F, car was sitting for at least 12 hours each time.

• - Idle starts out around 2,000 RPM, then after a minute or so will slowly fluctuate up and down, eventually making it to 2500 or more and remains there.

• - If I give it some gas, pushing to 3,000 or so and let off, it drops down to 1800 and then creeps back up above 2,000.

• - Idle finally stabilizes once the engine is warm. (idle is somewhat worse than the 'normal' rough 1ZZ idling characteristics.

• - It started up today at 32F and everything was peachy (stable idle around 1900 RPM.)

So would you guys agree this car is a candidate for an intake gasket? It's the original 2002 vintage gasket. There's also something leaking oil in the vicinity, the intake is a little greasy and grimy where it bolts on (and I now smell burning oil) so I'll hopefully get a better idea where that's coming from when it's all apart. (but that's for another thread...)

ColonelPanic wrote:Looks like I'll be putting on an intake gasket. I'm starting to see erratic idle speeds in cold temperatures. I keep checking with the ScanGauge, no codes. The Toyota TSB (EG045-07) that seems to go along with this problem indicates a P0171 but not here...

• - Started it up on two occasions, one was 17F and the other 18F, car was sitting for at least 12 hours each time.

• - Idle starts out around 2,000 RPM, then after a minute or so will slowly fluctuate up and down, eventually making it to 2500 or more and remains there.

• - If I give it some gas, pushing to 3,000 or so and let off, it drops down to 1800 and then creeps back up above 2,000.

• - Idle finally stabilizes once the engine is warm. (idle is somewhat worse than the 'normal' rough 1ZZ idling characteristics.

• - It started up today at 32F and everything was peachy (stable idle around 1900 RPM.)

So would you guys agree this car is a candidate for an intake gasket? It's the original 2002 vintage gasket. There's also something leaking oil in the vicinity, the intake is a little greasy and grimy where it bolts on (and I now smell burning oil) so I'll hopefully get a better idea where that's coming from when it's all apart. (but that's for another thread...)

I would say your idle hunting is the result of needing to replace the intake gasket. Find yourself the Toyota gasket which is the red one is what someone advised me to do (I guess better material?). Do some searching around on this site as there is a Toyota part number floating around here someplace. Super simple job to do. Easily less than an hour.

Here's a writeup on it:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/132-9 ... -pics.html

On edit: Here is the Toyota part number for the intake gasket: 17171-0D020

$5.64 part found here:
http://www.oemtoyotascionparts.com/oem- ... 171710d020

mntn-biker wrote:I would say your idle hunting is the result of needing to replace the intake gasket. Find yourself the Toyota gasket which is the red one is what someone advised me to do (I guess better material?). Do some searching around on this site as there is a Toyota part number floating around here someplace.

via TSB pdf: 17171-22060

Thanks, all! It's getting bad, so I hope to have it fixed within the next couple of weekends. Just have to find a warm place to take care of this.

I have the TSB printed out, now I need to go get the part(s). I assume going ahead and replacing the throttle body gasket is a good idea too, right?

ColonelPanic wrote:I assume going ahead and replacing the throttle body gasket is a good idea too, right?

For how cheap that gasket is, I would. The old one may not come off nicely anyway. Get some throttle body cleaner and clean your TB while you're at it since it is apart. Tip - There are a couple of coolant lines that go to your throttle body. Find yourself a couple of 5/16" or 8mm bolts to stuff in the ends of the lines when you take them off to keep from losing coolant.

I think I have the same problem for over 2 years on my '06 Base Vibe. When I start on a cold day (about -4F all the way to 21F) the RPM is about 2 000 (some times at 0rpm for 1 to 3 minutes, but the engine is running and I can drive without problems weird??). When I'm in third gear (or second and first) and release the clutch the RPM goes up and down, 2 000 to 1 000 or 1 500. I went to see mechanic in February 2013 and there was no code so he tought it was nothing important and I went home. This winter, it happens everytime I start my car in the morning (12 hours without running). Once my engine is warm everything is normal, the same think in the summer, nothing goes wrong. If this is the same problem how much do you think it is going to cost me if I go see my mechanic? Thanks

OLimoges wrote:I think I have the same problem for over 2 years on my '06 Base Vibe. When I start on a cold day (about -4F all the way to 21F) the RPM is about 2 000 (some times at 0rpm for 1 to 3 minutes, but the engine is running and I can drive without problems weird??). When I'm in third gear (or second and first) and release the clutch the RPM goes up and down, 2 000 to 1 000 or 1 500. I went to see mechanic in February 2013 and there was no code so he tought it was nothing important and I went home. This winter, it happens everytime I start my car in the morning (12 hours without running). Once my engine is warm everything is normal, the same think in the summer, nothing goes wrong. If this is the same problem how much do you think it is going to cost me if I go see my mechanic? Thanks

If I had to venture a guess, and I'm not a licensed mechanic, I'd say it would run you between $100 and $200. This is about a $6 part. If you are the slightest mechanically inclined and with the writeup above, this is a pretty easy fix. Would take you about 45 minutes if you are really good. Took me about an hour or so but I took my time and didn't rush myself to make sure everything was done properly. If you don't have a torque wrench, you can get an inexpensive 1 from Harbor Freight to make sure you have the fasteners torqued to proper spec.

Anybody have the torque spec an the 12mm bolts that attach the intake manifold ?

Never mind, 10fl/lbs, was posted in another thread. I’m telling my 3 friends that have Vibes to do theirs too, cheap fix and enjoyable wrenching. No lift needed. I coated my new gasket thinly with regular oil, like you do the oil filter, and tighten in phases, like a tire or flywheel. Easy does it, zen in the art of maintenance, quality over speed.

I know this is an old post....but at least others have been chiming in lately. The 06 I bought in October started having idle issues on cold starts, but no check engine light. I swapped out the gasket, and as mentioned above.....cheap fix and enjoyable wrenching. Just play some tunes, have your favourite beverage nearby and before you know it you're done.