GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Last week we had a pretty nasty heat wave here in Chicagoland. I got in the Vibe to drive home from work one day last week and the check engine and traction control lights came on. It was driving/idling/running fine, so I figured maybe it was just some freak thing because of the excessive heat. I pulled it in the garage when I got home and disconnected the negative battery cable. I let it sit for about half an hour and re-connected it. The lights were off and have stayed off until today. They have come back on and the Vibe does seem to stutter every so often like it wants to die on me. I was thinking about taking it to Auto Zone, but I don't know if they would be able to diagnose the traction control light or just the check enigne light. If anyone has any helpful hints or suggestions before I call the dealer to set up an appointment, it'd be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance .

I wouldn't see why the excessive heat would cause it. I think most of the whole country is seeing that. We have temps steady all last week from 98*-100*!!Apollo hasn't thrown any lights on.. But good luck! Hope its nothing!

Well, I thought it was the heat at first last week, but now that they've come back on, it's obvious it's an actual issue and not because of heat. At least it's still under warranty until April of next year.

Since it's under warranty, take it in... at least to get the code read.If you reset the code yourself though, take it out after and spin the tires and drift a little. Put the trac control and VSC systems to use and see what happens.

J, I hate to break this to you, but both of my Vibes have the same issue...My FWD will be getting diagnosed soon, and the AWD was diagnosed last month, the PCM FAILED... Took 30 days to get the part... Part was on backorder... Not saying you have the same issue, but... If I was in a different position, both cars would of been gone already as I am concerned.

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »J, I hate to break this to you, but both of my Vibes have the same issue...My FWD will be getting diagnosed soon, and the AWD was diagnosed last month, the PCM FAILED... Took 30 days to get the part... Part was on backorder... Not saying you have the same issue, but... If I was in a different position, both cars would of been gone already as I am concerned.Not what I want to hear, but thanks for the information nonetheless . Just curious... what is it that would make you get rid of them if you could?Well, I have an appointment for next Monday after work. I started it up to head to work this morning and in addition to the check engine and traction control lights still being on, the stability control light also came on. I shut it off and ended up taking my mom's Vibe to work. I my Vibe. I hope I'm not going to end up regretting getting it down the road ...

Quote, originally posted by J_TO_ENVY »Just curious... what is it that would make you get rid of them if you could?I have two 2009 Vibes and the same issue... You are having the same issue... PCM was on backorder for 30 days... Major issue I am thinking and I do not want to be stuck with the issue again, again, and again...

Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »I have two 2009 Vibes and the same issue... You are having the same issue... PCM was on backorder for 30 days... Major issue I am thinking and I do not want to be stuck with the issue again, again, and again...That's what I figured .

Well, I'm at the dealer right now anxiously awaiting the diagnosis. Will keep this thread updated...

Well, apparently the Vibe is just messing with me. When I arrived at the dealer yesterday the check engine and traction control lights were on solid and the vehicle stability control light was flashing. They pulled it in and read the 2 codes that it was throwing; P0172 and C1201. I'm not sure which is which, but they said one was for the ABS which was causing the traction and stability control lights to be on and the other was because the engine was running rich (too much fuel and not enough air) which was obviously causing the check engine light to be on. They thought it may be the MAF, so they checked it out. It was fine. Next they checked the air filter to make sure it was clean (I had removed the K&N CAI and re-installed the factory stuff to avoid any hassles). Well, the filter was clean of course because it was only on the car for a few months before I installed the K&N so it's basically a brand new filter . So, while the tech was messing around trying to figure out what the deal was, the lights just suddenly went out and stayed out . They cleared the codes and told me to let them know if they came back on and they'd get it back in. So far they have not come back on. Now I am worried it may be something related to the intake since the stock stuff is currently on and the lights are off. I will more than likely put the intake back on within the next few days and see what happens. My personal diagnosis... the Vibe is possessed! I'm surprised it didn't throw a 666 code at the dealer ! LOL!

Chances are you have either a bad ABS sensor on one of the wheels or a bad/corroded connection to the sensor.As for the intake.... fill the gas tank and compare your mileage with the stock intake on there! Maybe clean the MAF a little more often.

Now you will probably lose them around the time snow is on the ground. When you would actually need traction control and stabili-tracThis, at least, would be my luck.

I had this problem a month or so back. The check engine light came on and the traction control light flashing. It came on while I was driving. After car was sitting for a while, I went for a drive and all the lights were off. After a few days they all came back on again. Same thing, they went off after a while. I then noticed that one of my tail lights were out (won't turn on when braking) and after I changed out the bulb those lights never came back on =/

Quote, originally posted by star_deceiver »Chances are you have either a bad ABS sensor on one of the wheels or a bad/corroded connection to the sensor.As for the intake.... fill the gas tank and compare your mileage with the stock intake on there! Maybe clean the MAF a little more often.Well, so far none of the lights have come back on so I'm cautiously optimistic for now.I am going to put the intake back on this weekend. I cleaned the MAF/IAT sensors on both Vibes for the first time about 3000 miles ago. I am going to clean mine again this weekend before I put the intake back on.Quote, originally posted by 09vGT »Now you will probably lose them around the time snow is on the ground. When you would actually need traction control and stabili-tracThis, at least, would be my luck.Hopefully not, although sometimes in winter I will turn the traction and stability control off so I can have a little fun in the snow. It doesn't really make that much of a difference as long as you drive carefully, so it probably wouldn't be a huge deal if I lost them in winter.Quote, originally posted by lowincash »I had this problem a month or so back. The check engine light came on and the traction control light flashing. It came on while I was driving. After car was sitting for a while, I went for a drive and all the lights were off. After a few days they all came back on again. Same thing, they went off after a while. I then noticed that one of my tail lights were out (won't turn on when braking) and after I changed out the bulb those lights never came back on =/LOL! I'm at least glad to hear I'm not the only one with a possessed Vibe !The last two times mine has been to the dealer, there's been nothing they could really do with it. It makes me feel like a hypochondriac going to the doctor all the time when there's nothing wrong .

Well, it's been about a month since I put the CAI back on and today all three lights came back on and it was running a bit rough.I am going to clean the MAF/IAT sensors and air filter again. This is getting annoying .

I did some searching on Matrix Owners and found quite a few posts regarding this same issue.One easy thing that kept coming up was checking the gas cap to make sure it's on tight. I did just get gas last week, so I thought this was as good a place to start as any. I took the gas cap off and put it back on making sure it was nice and tight, then I disconnected the negative battery terminal to clear the lights. So far so good, although I only drove it about 10 miles. If the lights come back on, my next step will be to take it to Auto Zone and see if they can tell what codes it's throwing. There were a few other things on MO about people having this issue and it ended up being a bad wheel speed sensor among other things, so we'll see what happens...

So it's been nine days since I checked the gas cap and all. All was normal until today after work... I was running some errands around town and the lights came on again . I immediately called the dealer and made an appointment to take it in this coming Friday. I did the rest of my errands and went to get gas since I had just under a quarter of a tank. When I started the Vibe to leave the gas station, the lights were off . I got gas at the same place I always do. The only thing I did different was I turned the gas cap until it clicked once and again until it clicked twice. I tried to turn it more but it wouldn't turn any more. I've always just turned it until it clicks once, so maybe it's just going to have a quirk with the gas cap for the rest of its life . I drove the four miles home and the lights never came back on. Needless to say I will wait until Friday morning to cancel the appointment at the dealer though in case they come back on. I'll keep this thread updated as anything else happens.

Well, I ended up cancelling the appointment at the dealer yesterday because the lights have not come back on. I am reluctantly optimistic that it was just the gas cap *fingers crossed*.

So, the lights have not come back on, but now it's running rough. I will have my foot on the gas and all of a sudden the engine will bog down as if I removed my foot from the gas pedal, but I didn't.I just finished making a very detailed post on Matrix Owners to see if they can point me in the direction of what it may be before I return to the dealer.

On my way home from work today the Check Engine, Traction Control and Vehicle Stability Control lights all came on again. Until today, I hadn't had any issues like this since last fall. I installed a brand new AEM Brute Force Dryflow air filter earlier this year and even put an AEM Dryflow air filter wrap over it to help keep it cleaner. This evening I took the Vibe over to Auto Zone to get the codes read. The 2 codes that came up were P0170 - Fuel Trim Malfunction (Bank 1) and P0172 - System Too Rich (Bank 1). This is really starting to frustrate me. I have checked all the connections on the K&N CAI and they're all fine. I have cleaned the MAF sensor a couple times. I really hate to ditch the K&N CAI in favor of the stock setup, but if it keeps me from having to deal with this issue every few months, so be it.

FWIW... the Vibe is now out of warranty and currently has 31,562 miles.

Any ideas on what to check?

First of all, get yourself a $30 eBay OBDII scan tool so that you never have to go and beg Advance or Autozone to use theirs.

It seems more and more that the issues are pointing to the CAI. Here are some descriptions of those codes. They seem to be geared to Benz and VW but the info is sound and is one of the best explanation that I have read on these codes

PO170
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0170" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

P0171
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0171" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

P0172
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0172" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems all points to oil contamination of the MAF. I would clean it and put the OEM stuff back on and drive it for a month or so. Then clean the sensor off again and put your aftermarket stuff back on. If the light is triggered and those codes show up after the CAI is put back on then the issue is the CAI. If this light goes on and the same codes are listed and you have the OEM stuff on it then the MAF might be bad.

As for the fuel cap issue you mentioned in one of the first posts in this thread, next time you fill your tank up look at the underside of the cap. There should be a large rubber O ring, make sure it is seated all the way. I had a friend with a Toyota Solara and he had fuel cap issues. It was because the O ring was not seated right and was crooked. It was also a 2.4l engine like yours so maybe that engine is more sensitive then others?

journeyforce wrote:First of all, get yourself a $30 eBay OBDII scan tool so that you never have to go and beg Advance or Autozone to use theirs.

It seems more and more that the issues are pointing to the CAI. Here are some descriptions of those codes. They seem to be geared to Benz and VW but the info is sound and is one of the best explanation that I have read on these codes

PO170
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0170" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

P0171
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0171" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

P0172
http://www.obd-codes.com/p0172" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It seems all points to oil contamination of the MAF. I would clean it and put the OEM stuff back on and drive it for a month or so. Then clean the sensor off again and put your aftermarket stuff back on. If the light is triggered and those codes show up after the CAI is put back on then the issue is the CAI. If this light goes on and the same codes are listed and you have the OEM stuff on it then the MAF might be bad.

As for the fuel cap issue you mentioned in one of the first posts in this thread, next time you fill your tank up look at the underside of the cap. There should be a large rubber O ring, make sure it is seated all the way. I had a friend with a Toyota Solara and he had fuel cap issues. It was because the O ring was not seated right and was crooked. It was also a 2.4l engine like yours so maybe that engine is more sensitive then others?

Thanks for all the info journeyforce! I actually Googled the codes the other day when I got home from Auto Zone and read through those exact links that you posted.

Do you have any recommendations for a good, cheap OBD-II scanner? I don't mind going to the local Auto Zone, but having my own would certainly be even better. It was actually a woman who helped me at Auto Zone and she was saying I was her best customer ever for checking codes because I had opened up the little door that covered the OBD-II port. She said she would have been looking for it for 10 minutes since every vehicle is different. She seemed to be at least somewhat car-savvy. She asked me if I wanted her to print out the code info and I told her no, that I would just look them up online. She said to Google them and check out forums. I told her I had the forum angle covered already !

Anyway... the lights actually went off on my way home from work Friday. On Wednesday or Thursday (can't remember which day for sure), I double checked that the screws that hold the MAF to the CAI tube were nice and tight. Sure enough, the one did require a turn or two to become completely tight again. I also removed the AEM Dryflow air filter wrap from the air filter. I drove the 7 miles to my grandma's after work Friday. I shut the car off, went inside for about 10 minutes and when I came back out and started the car to head home, the lights were off. I think the problem is the MAF needs to really be seated nice and tight in the tube or it lets air escape or something and therefore causes the lights to come on and codes to be thrown. I am thinking I am going to remove the MAF and try to sand the edges of the hole in the CAI tube a tiny bit. It seems like the MAF fits in the hole a little too snug, so I am thinking if it sits in the hole a little better, it should seal better and be easier to get nice and tight. It's kind of frustrating because I didn't start having these issues until I cleaned the MAF/IAT sensors for the first time last year. I used the proper cleaner and all, but I don't know if it screwed up the rubber gasket on the MAF or what. I may end up just going ahead and ordering a new MAF. I don't think they're too expensive (about $60.00 on GM Parts Center.net IIRC).

As far as the gas cap goes, I will definitely double check the gasket on it, but I really don't think the gas cap has anything to do anything as I am sure to always turn it until it won't click anymore.

Thanks again for the help and insight. I'll be sure to post again if the lights come back on or anything.

Any code reader that displays the code is fine. There are also code readers that cost under $50 that also are able to read the ABS codes. You just need a simply one.

You mention the possibility that the MAF is not seated all the way. Exploring that possibility, did you inspect the O- Ring at the base of the MAF? It should be flush without any cracks or other damage to it. When you take the MAF out of where it is mounted sometimes the O-ring will stay in the housing. You need to remove it from the housing and slide it back up to the base of the MAF.

This O- ring could be black,red, orange, yellow, pink or purple depending what the maker has that day in the O- ring parts bin

Here is a pic of the O-ring on the base of the sensor


Also when cleaning the MAF, get some electronic cleaner from Radioshack and use that. Don't wipe the MAF down afterwards as that could damage it it. The cleaner dissipates on its own

journeyforce wrote:Any code reader that displays the code is fine. There are also code readers that cost under $50 that also are able to read the ABS codes. You just need a simply one.

You mention the possibility that the MAF is not seated all the way. Exploring that possibility, did you inspect the O- Ring at the base of the MAF? It should be flush without any cracks or other damage to it. When you take the MAF out of where it is mounted sometimes the O-ring will stay in the housing. You need to remove it from the housing and slide it back up to the base of the MAF.

This O- ring could be black,red, orange, yellow, pink or purple depending what the maker has that day in the O- ring parts bin

Here is a pic of the O-ring on the base of the sensor


Also when cleaning the MAF, get some electronic cleaner from Radioshack and use that. Don't wipe the MAF down afterwards as that could damage it it. The cleaner dissipates on its own

Okay. I will definitely check out eBay for a code reader then.

I will have to take a closer look at the o-ring on the MAF tomorrow after work.

The couple times I have cleaned the MAF, I have used CRC QD Electronics Cleaner. I did not use anything to wipe it down. I simply sprayed the cleaner on and then let the MAF sit for a good hour before re-installing it to make sure all the cleaner had dissipated.

Thanks again for the info and insight !

Yesterday morning on my way to work, this issue reared it's ugly head yet again. When I first started the Vibe it sounded like it was going to die. Than while driving to work, the RPMs were higher than normal when accelerating. Today when I got home from work, I pulled the Vibe in the garage and popped the hood so the engine could cool down. I went out a little later and disconnected the negative battery cable and removed the CAI so I could check and clean the MAF sensor once again . This time I believe I have finally discovered the problem though... there was a crack in the plastic just above the seal on the MAF sensor. This crack is causing the MAF sensor to not seat entirely correct in the CAI tube. I just went to GMPartsCenter.net and ordered a new MAF sensor. The MSRP is $9x.xx, but the total I ended up paying was $66.30 which I don't think is too bad, especially since I can replace it myself and all. I definitely believe this is the source of this issue since my mom's Vibe has not had a single issue like this in the 2+ years the CAI has been on hers. I removed and re-installed mine quite a few times over the past couple years for warranty trips to the dealer, so I'm thinking because the plastic is already very thin, I probably over tightened it or something which caused it to crack. I can't wait to replace the MAF and see whether this issue arises again within the next few months or not.

Nice cheap fix, awesome!

I have a 2007 Vibe with 51,500 miles but with the Check Engine light only (P0170 error code). It started about 6 mos ago. I cleaned the MAF, etc. and will now definitely check for cracks around the MAF. However, during the past couple of months the light has gone off (but then came back after a few days) after going through a car wash, after sitting idle on a weekend when it was very humid, and after running the AC for one day. What might cause this intermittent activity?

lowincash wrote:I had this problem a month or so back. The check engine light came on and the traction control light flashing. It came on while I was driving. After car was sitting for a while, I went for a drive and all the lights were off. After a few days they all came back on again. Same thing, they went off after a while. I then noticed that one of my tail lights were out (won't turn on when braking) and after I changed out the bulb those lights never came back on =/

Same here, was playing with some LED tail lights, and it made the dash look like a Christmas Tree. Mine being a 2005 no engine light, but ABS (blinking), T/C, Low tire, and one other light came on. Put in a set of CANBUS compatible LED lights (front clearance / signal, and rear clearance / brake. Other lights did not cause lights to come on) and the dash went back to normal. May not be your problem, but may be worth checking your lights, or worst case checking the bulb sockets to see if the bulb is loose. I have not found any reference this issue in a general search but maybe someone can shed more light onto the issue. Appears to be related to the Vibe CANBUS system via Siamese monkey voodoo....

I received and installed the new MAF sensor a couple days ago. I can definitely tell a difference in the idle, RPMs during acceleration, etc. Not that the Vibe was running bad before, but it definitely feels "smoother" now. I am confident that the crack in the MAF was the cause of the initial issues I posted about and that the new MAF will prevent these issues from recurring.

Once again this problem has arisen. I took my Vibe to our trusted mechanic this past Wednesday. Of course when I started it up in the morning to go drop it off, all the lights had gone out and it was running fine. Fortunately he was able to find the code stored in the memory of the computer. It was a code for the MAF sensor. When I called him from work to see what was going on, he told me it was the MAF sensor and that the intake had ruined it. I just installed a brand new MAF back in March of this year. He said he is a performance guy and he said all intakes do is make noise. They do not provide any performance gains, etc. I am sure he was thinking of people reporting issues with the MAF due to over-oiling of the air filter. The intake on my Vibe has only ever had an AEM Dryflow filter on it, so obviously over-oiling is absolutely not even a possibility. He insisted that any MAF issues he's ever seen were always related to the vehicle having an aftermarket intake installed.

I am totally lost as to why I am having issues with mine and yet my mom's Vibe which is exactly the same as mine (except for the color) and even has almost the same mileage as mine, has not experienced a single issue. I am really annoyed. I ended up sending the following email to K&N to see what they have to say as I want to cover every angle before I just give up and re-install the stock setup.

To whom it may concern:

I have had your #69-8613TS intake installed along with an AEM Dryflow air filter #21-203BF (in place of the supplied K&N filter) on my 2009 Toyota Matrix XRS since July of 2009. For the first two years I did not have any issues with it. Then out of nowhere in July of 2011 I started getting random bouts of rough idle and the check engine, traction control and stability control lights would all come on. I have gone through all the hassles of cleaning the MAF sensor, making sure all the connections are tight, etc. The problem goes away for a while, but always ends up coming back eventually. This past week it happened again so I took it to my mechanic. He looked up the code and it was for the MAF sensor. I had just installed a brand new MAF sensor in March of this year. The mechanic told me that aftermarket intakes cause MAF sensor failure. He said he is a performance guy and that all intakes do is make noise. They have no other gains. I am assuming the failure he is referring to is the myth of over-oiling causing MAF sensor failure, but there has never been an oiled filter on the intake. It's only ever been the AEM Dryflow filter, so that is absolutely not even in the realm of possiblity. I have a second 2009 Matrix XRS that has almost the exact same mileage and also has the #69-8613TS and AEM Dryflow air filter installed and this vehicle has never had an issue. I find it weird that one vehicle is fine and the other is having an issue. I was pretty much just wondering if you have any suggestions, etc. I really hate to go back to the stock setup because I enjoy your intake so much for the look under the hood, the sound, the added performance and the increased fuel economy, but obviously I need to solve this issue. If it comes down to it, is it possible to just order a new tube from you without having to get the entire kit? Thanks for any help/advice/info you can provide.

Any input, advice, etc. is always appreciated. I will be sure to update this thread as soon as I hear back from K&N.

No real advice (other than return to stock! ) but why the downgrade to a Matrix? Do they not officially "support" the installation of this product on the Vibe?

Yeah, unfortunately I am thinking it will probably end up coming down to re-installing the stock stuff, in which case I will at least add an aFe Pro Dry S drop in filter.

On their website, they only list the intake as fitting the Scion xB and Matrix. I emailed them a while back and told them it also fits the 2009-2010 2.4L Vibe. They replied saying they would not list it on their site unless they could get a Vibe to actually install it on, so I figured it would be a lot easier to just say I have a Matrix XRS . Just don't tell my Vibe because it would be insulted !

Got a response from Joel @ K&N:

I am responding to the issue that you are having with the MAF sensor code. There are several different MAF sensor codes, each one with a different meaning. Please have it scanned and let me know. At a different shop, it sounds like this Performance Guy has an anti-aftermarket issue.Pep Boys or Auto Zone (no charge for the scan) and have them tell you the exact code(s). It would not be related to the kit if it took 2-3 years.

My reply:

The most recent code is P0171 - System Too Lean - (Bank 1). In the past it has also thrown codes: P0170 - Fuel Trim Malfunction (Bank 1) & P0172 System Too Rich - (Bank 1).

I trust this mechanic to a certain extent, but I don't believe what he said about the intake. As I said in my initial email, I have a second Matrix XRS that has had the same intake and filter setup since 2011 with no issues whatsoever.

Oh, oh oh! Check the intake manifold gasket! Also check to make sure any lines going into the intake tube, throttle body, or manifold are attached firmly on both ends. I really don't think it's the MAF, but rather a leak somewhere after the sensor so that it can't adjust anything to compensate. The last suspect place would be where the intake tube meets the throttle body: the little sleeve bit could be loose or leaky.

I dunno if you've already tried those.

As for the previous codes you've had, I'd definitely ignore them if they were like 500 miles ago.

If you don't mind, you can also provide info about the ambient conditions when the engine is running unhappily.

I have already checked every single connection pertaining to the intake multiple times.

As far as weather conditions, it's happened when it's hot, it's happened when it's mild and now when it's cold, so it doesn't seem like it would really be related to the weather at all.

Thanks for the tips. I am curious to hear back from Joel to see what he has to say, but it may be a while with the holiday and all.