Fuel Filter.. I think?

[jasonvibe]

I have the following symptom on my 1ZZ- 05' AWD. CAR has poor,rough, shakey idle you can feel right thru your (removed) after full or almost full warm up. It can be felt in any gear including "P" & "N". But easiest to notice in D and R. Especially noticable when the fuel tank is less than 1/2 full. Then I I fill it up and the idle is MUCH better and almost no heavy vibrations till I am back to or well below 1/2 full. I have NO other symptoms other than this idle issue. It drives good and does not hesitate. MPG has not changed.Had this car since new. Everyone seems to think the fuel filter does not need replacing until you have hit ~100k. Mine has 65k. The AWD uses a different large and rather flat filter compared to the FWD. Note: I already replaced the intake gasket. Which helped slightly, and seemed to cure the CEL133. Oh, I did run Gumout and other "safe" cleaners thru three tanks of fuel. AND do not get fuel from the same station every time. The owners manual makes no mention of fuel filter under routine maint. items. BUT will tell you to get your valve clearance chacked @60k .Also , the Toyota manual makes it seem like a hassle to check the fuel pressure. And no where in their trouble shooting guide does it even mention a bad filter possibility. Is there a better manual out there? AND what are the odds my filter is "clogged" up ? I need some serious experienced answers. Thanks in advance.

[star_deceiver]

If you listen under the car, how loud does the fuel pump sound? W/ full tank, 1/4 tank? Noticable change? If the filter was clogged it wouldn't matter if the tank was full or empty.From what I've seen/heard the fuel pump - filter is one unit and since you have to take it out of the tank anyways, why not just replace the whole thing and be done with it! Pop the rear bench and there's the pump!

[joatmon]

on these cars, the fuel filter is attached to the fuel pump inside the fuel tank. Seems to me that if the fuel filter was restricting flow, it would limit the fuel getting to the electric fuel pump, and that you would notice it more at high throttle (higher gas flow) than at idle, but your issue is at idle, not high throttle To me, this lowers the odds that its a fuel filter problem.On older cars with mechanical fuel pumps, they pump less at idle, but electric fuel pumps pump the same amount independent of engine speed

[Salsa Guy]

Maybe having some junk floating around the gas tank? Just an idea.

[09vGT]

I've noticed today on my '09 that its starting to have a bit of a rough idle.. I just rolled over to 66K..

[jasonvibe]

The filter itself is repalceable . . Manual shows how. $10 I think from Advance Auto. BUT they do not supply the "not reusable" NEEDED securing "clip", per OEM manual. So maybe it's the pump. But the symptoms do not entirely point to that. And toyota dealers near me are clueless on parts unless you have the car VIN#. Obviously I do not have a TOY VIN#. So I have to show them pictures. But usually 30 minute ordeal at the parts counter for any part. I wish the manual was a bit clearer on the "how to " check for fuel pressure chack. They say , "buy a new fuel coupler" and install it w/ Special "T" fitting" at the pump I think. Wish I could find a manual with better pics. The pump itself it quiet at all times. I do listen at start up. As Joatman says, This is a constant pressure pump. So if it was the issue...I think I would have symptoms at all speeds.Though I am a conservative driver and mostly on country roads. If I give it the gas hard. Like taking off quick to get into traffic or giving it more to go up hills... no hesitation. NO codes. I will have to do one more test...full throttle . This is NOT a drive by wire car.Could it be too much pressure? Thus rich at idle and not needing much throttle to go faster. Which is how it drives most of the time. It starts normal. This is our only car and dealers are lousey. I am very mechanically oriented. Done more than my share of major engine work and the like. But every vehicle has issues. Given enough info, I can fix anything.

[joatmon]

Quote, originally posted by jasonvibe » And toyota dealers near me are clueless on parts unless you have the car VIN#. Obviously I do not have a TOY VIN#. same here, but when I have needed to go to Toyota for a part, I look at cars.com, autotrader.com or ebay, find an equivalent model/year Matrix, and give Toyota that VIN.If you still think its the fuel filter, you should be able to put the pump/filter asembly out of the tank and do a visual on it, and on the gas in the tank. Just be extra careful - No Sparks!What RPM is it idling at? 1ZZ warm idle is supposed to be 650-750 rpmI can see why the symptom of only having the problem at under a half tank would tend to indicate a fuel problem. The only differences I can think of would be that on a full tank, you have more fuel in the tank, and also you have recently relieved the vacuum on the fuel tank. The car should put a vacuum on the tank quickly, much sooner than it would take to run through a half tank of gas, but it might be worth trying the next time you're under a half tank and having the idle problem, stop the engine, remove and replace the gas cap, and see if that has effect. Probably not, but an easy thing to eliminate. have you been though all the MAF and idle speed control checks?

[jasonvibe]

Just to go over something I was not too clear on. When this all started 2 months ago. I did replace the intake gasket for 2 reasons the new vibration and the PO133 which I have had for years. But PO133 would disappear as fast as it showed up and only happen once a year. So now with the poor idle I figured the gasket was shot. PO133 is noted in a GM bulletin as an air leak at this gasket(oring assy.). And others here said this is common on pre-2006, before the gasket update. I changed the gasket, Then it seemed fine...aka all fixed. Now, Yes, I was considering the MAF. But again, the filling up with fuel should not change how that reacts. Removing the gas cap...I should have thought of that. But I did that before the intake gasket was changed when I put some cleaner in and a gallon of fuel. I will remove gas cap for a second, the next time it goes below 1/2 tank and symptoms po up. FYI, it has not got above 32F for 2 months here. Maybe the low temps are affecting something that is wrong. Making it show up with this poor idle. Maybe I had 2 issues. The gasket fixed one of them and now I still have another. Also, that clicking under the hood driver's side , that some notice...Mine has tended to be more rapid. It's some sort of emissions device. I think they call it the VSV. Vacuum switching valve. It's ultimate purpose I do not know. Maybe someone can shed light on this also? And is the gas cap to seal or vent a specific way? the other day... I gave it the full throttle test aka foot to the floor. 1st and 2nd. All seems good in this respect. It gooooesPlease keep the ideas coming.

[jasonvibe]

I did change the intake gasket 2 times. So that is no longer in question with a possible intake leak. I just did a valve clearance check. Which is the same as many motorcycles I have worked on in the past. All valves check out being in middle of the specs. So now it's likely a fueling issue. I changed all the spark plugs to proper iridium NGKs. All came out looking the same "ghost WHITE". So now I am down to either weak fual pump pressure, partially clogged filter or bad injector. Or I have a vacuum rather than a bit of pressure in the tank. Usually a slight pressure(or vacuum not sure) release is suppose to happen when you remove the gas cap. There is a sensor for the "fumes". I did check the fuel tank to be air tight per the service manual. It holds pressure. BUT, I have noticed I can no longer hear my fuel pump after the car sits over night like I used to...a faint whur no longer happens for the usual second or so time it takes to pressurize the system. But the car starts instantly. I tried Joatmon's fuel cap suggestion. ANd honestly could not notice a difference. SO I am leaning towards working on the filter and pump . Checking the fuel pressure described in the Matrix manual involves Toyota proprietary parts and tools to check...UGH! HAs anyone yet checked their presure w/o wrecking the fuel hose by the engine???Others have changed the fuel filter...but the owner's manual makes no statement that this is ever needed. The AWD pump is different than the FWD. Someone asked why not just replace the "whole thing" pump and filter. ANS: Because I cannot waste the $100 right now on a pump I may not need. Most pumps are capable of 80psi. But ours has a regulator that limits that to about 50psi. Replacement pumps that I have found at Auto stores, do NOT come with the pressure regulator. Which also could be my issue. Also the exact idle RPM the car is at is impossible to check with my digital tach I use on bikes. Does anyone have a way of checking exact rpm at idle? Anyone have history of pump or filter issues on the unique AWD Matrix/Vibes or any Vibe/Matrix needing these items replaced???

[keithvibe]

My scanguage gives a digital read out of the rpm.Your symptoms to me suggest a small vacuum leak.What mods if any have you done.

[djkeev]

I've got the plug that uses the OBDII plug under the dash and via USB hooks to my laptop.Pull up the correct program, plug in the laptop and a wide variety of information is mine for the taking, including fault codes. I can also reset the codes from my lap top.If you pay for a good program the information you can access is mind boggling, on many cars, even the fuel pressure you wonder about.I've seen a similar hookup for my iPhone utilizing the Apple plug, thinking about it for I've always got my iPhone, not so often on the laptop!Now if it works on the iPad, I'm buying it!!!I'm sure there's an App for that!!! Dave Sent from my iPad

[jasonvibe]

there are NO mods to this car at all. I have double clamped some and other clamps replaced at the PVC and other hoses connected to the intake. And as said before I have the latest orange intake gasket and the throttle body gasket.... now just a few months old. As far as a program for my lptop...WHERE do I get this??? I assume it comes with a OBDII cord to mate with the laptop....? ALso per the Toyota service manual , fuel pressure can only be checked the normal way...hoses and gauge. But it requires purchasing specialized Toyota only parts. And when the original hose is disconnected the Matrix manual...makes it seem as if the old fuel hose must be replaced. This is the one going to the injectors...UGH! Seems the manual is writtem for techs who have worked on Toyotas for years. Should I buy a Haynes manual? Could it be an intake leak. Considering all I have done to eliminate that... I really doubt it. I was hoping someoone who has done a fuel pressure check on the Vibe or Matrix. ..could tell me the pit falls of doing it. I will say in the warmer weather as of late the issue is far less noticable. Meaning as long as the temps are above 55F.

[star_deceiver]

Have you thought of going to the wreckers and buying a cheap fuel pump assembly out of a wrecked Vibe or Matrix? Generally you should be able to get one from a pick'n'pull or other self serve wreckers (bring your own tools and elbow grease) for around $30 and they generally have a return policy.

[jasonvibe]

well, I checked the fuel pressure. Borrowed a kit from Autozone. 1st the service manual from Toyota...does it their way. Something I wish I knew before I started. The results were...my pump is perfect , 49psi . The Matrix manual says to purchase a new fuel hose $57 because it has special ends. Now I know why. They want you to do it their way.Basically trashing the original hose. It's too late for me. But if others want to do it. I can give you a couple short cuts and save to the expense of a NEW special Toyota FI hose. 1st the hose is easy to remove down low at the firewall. Simple remove small black cover and squeeze. The upper part is a bit tougher. Says you need a special tool to release said hose. The manual has a good picture.Simply there are 4 little blocking fingers that prevent the hose from coming off by accident. I used a 1.5" long copper pipe, 1/2" id. Cut it the long way on my band saw. Then sanded the sharp edges. Now use just 1/2 on the copper pipe. Bend it a bit tighter with vise or pliers till it gets the needed shape to get into the fingers to release the lower 3 fingers. Then using a feeler gauge ot skinny screwdriver or other thin bit...push the 4th finger out of the lock positiono. If you have the OEM Matrix Toyota manual page 11-11...this will alll make sense. Now you can use 5/16" FI hose(MUST BE FI hose)...get 18". The 5/16 will go onto the bare metal pipes now exposed at both ends. Lubricate the hose w/gas before putting the hose on. Wiggle them over the 1st bump 1/2". Use hose clamps past the bumps in this 1/2" area, and after you cut the hose in half it should work well w/the Autozone tester "T" in the middle. When done testing, carefully remove your 5/16" hose and you can put the original hose back in place...no harm done. DO NOT USE STANDARD FUEL hose for any tests like this. Old rubber hose can clug injectors. ALWAYS use FI hose. has a hard vinyl center....and does not decay or oxidize. Lastly ..the taller you are the easier it is to do the hose by the firewall. Now I am onto other possibilities......

[jasonvibe]

I just checked the rear motor mount. There is no rubber on it from 3 to 9 o'clock...upper half. It is smooth, rubber not torn. I think it's suppose to be like this. I have never seen a mount like this. Is this normal for an AWD?

[schwartzy18510]

I have the following symptom on my 1ZZ- 05' AWD. CAR has poor,rough, shakey idle you can feel right thru your (removed) after full or almost full warm up. It can be felt in any gear including "P" & "N". But easiest to notice in D and R. Especially noticable when the fuel tank is less than 1/2 full. Then I I fill it up and the idle is MUCH better and almost no heavy vibrations till I am back to or well below 1/2 full. I have NO other symptoms other than this idle issue. It drives good and does not hesitate. MPG has not changed.Had this car since new. Everyone seems to think the fuel filter does not need replacing until you have hit ~100k. Mine has 65k. The AWD uses a different large and rather flat filter compared to the FWD. Note: I already replaced the intake gasket. Which helped slightly, and seemed to cure the CEL133. Oh, I did run Gumout and other "safe" cleaners thru three tanks of fuel. AND do not get fuel from the same station every time. The owners manual makes no mention of fuel filter under routine maint. items. BUT will tell you to get your valve clearance chacked @60k .Also , the Toyota manual makes it seem like a hassle to check the fuel pressure. And no where in their trouble shooting guide does it even mention a bad filter possibility. Is there a better manual out there? AND what are the odds my filter is "clogged" up ? I need some serious experienced answers. Thanks in advance.

Hey @jasonvibe — 11 years later, were you ever able to track down the source of that rough idle on your Vibe? I've been experiencing the same over the last year or so and am pulling my hair out trying to figure out the cause. In the course of tracking this down and performing other potentially related repairs, I've done the following:

— Cleaned Throttle Body and replaced TB Gasket
— Disassembled and cleaned Idle Air Control (IAC) Valve, replaced IAC Valve Gaskets
— Cleaned MAF Sensor with MAF Sensor Cleaner
— Replaced Engine Air Filter
— Replaced Spark Plugs with OEM Iridiums
— Tested Ignition Coil resistance
— Performed Cylinder Balance test by pulling spark plug connectors one at a time; all cylinders are firing
— Checked for a vacuum line leak by capping all vacuum line nipples / ports coming off of the intake manifold and valve cover, with no observed change in idle RPM, vibration level, or manifold vacuum
— Checked for a vacuum line leak using a propane torch at all gasket mating surfaces, vacuum lines, and hose connections
— Replaced PCV Valve with OEM Toyota part
— Ran 4 cans of Techron and Sea Foam Fuel Injector Cleaner
— Replaced Fuel Injectors with rebuilt OEM Denso injectors, flow matched to 1%
— Replaced ATF filter, pan gasket, and flushed ATF by disconnecting the cooler return hose; replaced with OEM Toyota Type T-IV fluid
— Replaced all Engine Mounts, which made problem far WORSE; re-installed original mounts
— Replaced Harmonic Balancer

At this point I'm just about out of ideas other than the fuel pump and/or fuel filter. However, my issue is at idle only, with smooth throttle at 2,500 and 3,500 RPM so I think I can rule them out. STFT + LTFT combined are about +12% at idle, but only 0-2% at 2,500 RPM and a combined -15% at 3,500 RPM. Smacks of a vacuum leak, but I'll be damned if I can find one. Fuel economy per my calibrated Scangauge is as expected, 30-32 MPG highway on winter gas with me, my wife, and two kids under 5 in tow. Summer fuel economy is usually 34-36 MPG.

A real head-scratcher, but it's making the car borderline undrivable. No idea what could be the cause at this point, and I can't express how much I'd like to put this issue behind me!