My new full on system build

[audiovibe]

As a few people on this forum Know I am doing a complete overhaul on my current audio system. I spent 2 hours today gutting my car and I now only have a dash, upper b-pillars, headliner, and the rear upper quarters in the car. My wife was very shocked when she came home today.If no one is familiar with my current system it can be found here. http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=27978 The new system will be a ground up rebuild, starting with 120 yards of RaamMat and ensolite. All cabling will be techflexed and routed in an organized fashion. and biggest change of all, the power My current system is rated at 560 total watts RMS the new system is rated at 1440 watts and is lined out as follows.I am contemplating a small change to balance the layout which would be to swap to a 3 way front setup by adding a 4" midrange and another 360.4 Zapco amp taking total RMS wattage to 1800.I will post some necked pics of the vibe tomorrow night after I get the metal cleaned up. (Who knew that it gets really dirty under the carpet) I will be documenting the entire build in this thread so keep posted.Aron

[Kamikaze]

Can't wait to watch this build! I was thinking looking at your diagram you might want to add the mids... but what do I know

[Sublimewind]

Dude, wee need to talk CarPC.. My xBox idea is fine, but i'm realizing more and more I should have just went carPC..

[audiovibe]

Quote, originally posted by Kamikaze »Can't wait to watch this build! I was thinking looking at your diagram you might want to add the mids... but what do I know It is still crossing my mind, only issue is I will need another 360.4 to run them. The main reason that I am contemplating on a 3 way is to balance the amp layout in the rear. Also with my 6.5 and tweet being so far apart it would help them blend a little better. the downside would be harder to tune and I would lose processing for my sub as I will have to denote a channel of the DSP-6 to the mids. I'll probably make up my mind in a week or so.Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »Dude, wee need to talk CarPC.. My xBox idea is fine, but i'm realizing more and more I should have just went carPC.. Hit me up with any questions or concerns that you may have to the jump Aaron.Now onto the days fun. Here is the product that I am using.I spent about 1.5hr wiping down the interior with acetone so the mat would have a good place to bond. For the people that have never seen the Vibes neked interior.Today I also spent 3.5 hours laying some mat, I tried to get 100%coverage on every panel that is opposite the outside. All I got done was the hatch Well a few more pics!That's it for tonight, I am going to try and bust some azz on it tomorrow.Aron

[audiovibe]

BTW the well was dampened before with liquid E-dead and E-dead V1.0 mat. the mat lost adhesion so I took most of it out.Aron

[Kevzaz]

Nice man, I can't wait to see the finished product. It looks great. I wish I had time.. well... money for this... haha.

[keithvibe]

My car looked like that at one time.. lol very nicely done!How many little tiny cuts do you have on your hands from the foil backing?? lol

[audiovibe]

Quote, originally posted by Kevzaz »Nice man, I can't wait to see the finished product. It looks great. I wish I had time.. well... money for this... haha.You and me both man, I have no idea when it will be done, I keep having some install ideas pop up and what not. The time isn't really an issue for me as I have another car to beat around in for the most part. Hey man don't worry about having money to do something this in depth, that's why your in school.Quote, originally posted by keithvibe »My car looked like that at one time.. lol very nicely done!How many little tiny cuts do you have on your hands from the foil backing?? lolThanks Keith! Would you believe NO Cuts!! I cant believe it either, but I do have a blister from my roller.On another note I finished up deadening for the night at about 9:30, I started at 10:30 this morning. In 11 hours I got the rest of the floor and the front doors done.Between what I did yesterday and finishing up the floor I used 60sqft of deadener, in the front doors I used approx 15sqft for each door. The front doors are very solid and weigh a ton, but are extremely solid when yuo shut the door all you hear is a thud. Its is very nice.Well enough of that here is some more pics.In these next pics notice the E-Dead on the front doors.I took all the existing E-Dead off because it lost adhesion. It only took 15 min per door to pull off. Here are the redone front doors.I also put ensolite on the floors, but haven't got any pictures of that at the moment.If anyone is contemplating using a deadner product in the vibe, I highly suggest it. I put seats in it because I have a MP3Car meet tomorrow. I decided to take it for a quick drive and when idling you here almost nothing. Almost like Mercedes quiet, seriously. I do have one rattle left to fix, it is only audible when the doors are shut. I was killing myself trying to find the culprit, it ended up being the vents in the lower rear quarter flapping when the door is closed.That's all for tonight next update will be on Monday as tomorrow I have a MP3Car meet. Aron

[audiovibe]

For got to mention, each door has 3 layers of mat on the outer skin and 2 layers on the inner skin.Aron

[wyatt89]

Wow, that's going to be one of the best sounding vibes out there. It's not a good platform to begin with but with the equipment, deadening, and time you are throwing in there it sound sound awesome! I'm sure all the Zapco goods cost you quite a bit but it's always excellent sounding

[djkeev]

Hi,I've been toying around with sound deadening. I don't really care about a super sound system, just desire to quiet the ride a tad.Curious about two things.How many $$ for the materialHow many pounds are you adding to the curb weight? I expect you'll have some sort of MPG drop when you are done.Continue on and continue the photos!Dave

[audiovibe]

Quote, originally posted by wyatt89 »Wow, that's going to be one of the best sounding vibes out there. It's not a good platform to begin with but with the equipment, deadening, and time you are throwing in there it sound sound awesome! I'm sure all the Zapco goods cost you quite a bit but it's always excellent sounding Thanks Wyatt. I didn't really notice how noisy the Vibe was until I put the deadener in; it is a huge difference. The strange thing about this build though is that the reason I am doing all this is because I wanted more power for the fronts.Quote, originally posted by djkeev »Hi,I've been toying around with sound deadening. I don't really care about a super sound system, just desire to quiet the ride a tad.Curious about two things.How many $$ for the materialHow many pounds are you adding to the curb weight? I expect you'll have some sort of MPG drop when you are done.Continue on and continue the photos!DaveDave I would seriously consider it, I noticed a huge difference doing just the floor, hatch and wheel wells. I'm not sure how much noise the doors and hatch door keep out but with the amount of weight in there Im sure it is helping also. I now have the carpet back in and the road noise is a drastic reduction over stock FWIW.I think I will be around the $500 mark for deadening product in the end (I need to order a roll for the headliner and I need more ensolite).The mileage isn't really concerning me much. the previous system weighed in around 150 on the heavy end, on highway driving I was still able to average 41mpg and my daily average is still around 31mpg with a 70% city driving. The new system with deadner will only weigh around 300 on the heavy, just like carrying my old system with an extra passenger all the time.Aron

[audiovibe]

While the forums were down I got a little done, I used all the ensolite I had, finished the deadning, and got all the wireing ran. Well I guess its time for some pics.Here is the rest of the deadening, I didn't take any pics of the back doors but they are done. Some of the pics turned out blurry from the hatch so I only have a couple good ones.and the Hatch coverThat is all the deadening pics I haveEnjoy Aron

[bull77]

wow -- impressive work

[audiovibe]

Now the fun can start. The wiring is normally a dreaded part of an install, but when there is no interior in the car its not so bad I have had a lot of people asking about where to run their power wire through the firewall. Well there is no good place on our cars but here is where I put mine.From the interiorNow from the dirty engine bayHere is how I routed the 0AWG in the engine bay.Where I came into the carI thought I had some of where the wire was routed behind the dash but I can't find them.I didn't have any pics of the wiring in progress but here are some completed pics with the ensolite laid down.Wiring going to the Zapco DSP-6 There are some spare wires tossed in the well there don't mind them I will be cutting them to length and terminating them later.Wiring for the P.C. There is a lone black wire in this pic also, it is for the bass control fo rthe sub amp. this will be routed when I get the amps installed.

[audiovibe]

I have also decided that I will probably run a 3 way in the front since I do like the benefits of basically having a separate speaker for bass, vocals, and the upper range stuff. The next set of pics were part of the issue I was hesitant to run a 3 way with out it looking out of place, I had to do a little trimming. First is the drivers side, It was kinda congested so I had to move a few things.Here are some pics. BeforeAfterThis pic just shows the small chunks that needed cut outand test fitting a 4" to check for magnet clearance. The Passenger side. I didn't get a pic of all the wiring that was in the way before I started.That was all the fun I had in that day. I still need to dampen the kick panel area but that will wait until I make the baffle to hold the speakers.Enjoy Aron

[audiovibe]

Here is a quick tutorial about how I am making all speaker connections it the rebuild. This will show the wiring being made for the kick panel 4" midrange speakers.First I had to get my suppliesI use a cheapo Weller pencil iron for most stuff. so here is what I used.1. a solder Iron2. some solder.3. Helping Hands (not needed but they are useful when soldering t wires together or terminating cables)4. speaker wire of choice ( I am using stinger hyper 12ga speaker throughout the car.5. 1/4" Techflex weaved loom6. terminal ends7. some various heat shrinkFirst I got everything laid out, I already stripped my speaker cable to be worked.Next I tinned my speaker cable and pooled some solder into the terminal ends, (I forgot a pic for this step). Then with heat still applied to the terminal end I put the wire in and removed the iron and let the solder cool. This is what you will end up with.Next I used heat shrink to differentiate my positive and negativeTerminal endthe other end will connect to a terminal block so I just tinned the wire with no terminals but I did use heat shrink to determine my positive and negative.I guess I missed a few pics, but after you have you positives and negatives determined slide over the techflex and terminate the ends with more heat shrink to stop the scheething from becoming frayed. This is the end resultAron

[audiovibe]

Quote, originally posted by bull77 »wow -- impressive work Thanks!Aron

[tribalman]

wow, very cool! i loved your previous setup and can't wait to see the new finished product! and 40mpg?? i was just checking mine and i was getting 25 in a mix of city and highway. how did you manage that?

[808 Vibes]

Pics taking too long to download for me, but from what I can see you are very adventurous LOL. How is Katie doing?

[audiovibe]

Quote, originally posted by tribalman »wow, very cool! i loved your previous setup and can't wait to see the new finished product! and 40mpg?? i was just checking mine and i was getting 25 in a mix of city and highway. how did you manage that?I to cant wait to see the finished product! I still have no idea how I am going to layout the amps. The 40mpg is straight highway driving keeping around 65mpg. Last year on the way to the MN meet at the beginning of spring I was at 450 miles with out the gas light coming on, when I put gas in it took 10.8 gallons. I got similar results on trips to St. Louis, Springfield, and the Dells but that is just straight highway driving and sometimes with Katie (my wife for those that don't know) yelling will you speed up we are never gonna get there. My city driving is a little different then yours as down here in hickville we don't have the stop and go traffic like you suburbians have so we are able to keep if going at a better pace. I also try to keep to side streets that I travel often so I can utilize the coasting techniques to stop signs. The window sticker says anywhere between 24 and 34 is acceptable for city driving, so I would really like to get it up to the 34-35 mark with the system in it but that is going to be a huge challenge.Quote, originally posted by HawaiiPontiacLover »Pics taking too long to download for me, but from what I can see you are very adventurous LOL. How is Katie doing?Adventure is my middle name!! (that's corny I know)Should have saw me when I got the carpet laid back in and noticed I forgot the floor vents, I was kinda irked.Katie is doing so so, she has had a headache for the last 2 weeks and went for a cat scan on Friday. The scan was negative so they are assuming that it is being caused by the radiation as she hasn't changed anything such as medications, or treatments, or anything else under the sky for that. The good news is that her last radiation treatment is on Monday, and she will hopefully be done with all cancer stuff for ever.One of the drug reps that comes into the practice she works at carries the Host Defense and I believe that she is gonna try it after her radiation.Now that the sun is peaking I'm gonna go play with some ideas for the car.Aron

[keithvibe]

you REALLY should consider adding the foam to the wheel wells. I found after i added the deadner and the foam to the wells it cut down on the noise factor by 10.Do you plan on doing the roof as well? I hope so. that thing will rattle like a tin can.I did run in a problem though with my mat not sticking to the roof even after i cleaned it with alc.A quick and easy method to reduce the noise threw the roof is to just add it to the liner or add just the foam to the liner.

[audiovibe]

Quote, originally posted by keithvibe »you REALLY should consider adding the foam to the wheel wells. I found after i added the deadner and the foam to the wells it cut down on the noise factor by 10.Do you plan on doing the roof as well? I hope so. that thing will rattle like a tin can.I did run in a problem though with my mat not sticking to the roof even after i cleaned it with alc.A quick and easy method to reduce the noise threw the roof is to just add it to the liner or add just the foam to the liner.In the end the ensolite will be everywhere the mat is besides the inside of the doors, I should have done that before I deadened the inner skin. I still have to add the ensolite to the inner door skins behind the speakers and virtually the whole hatch area minus the floor. I need to order some more, I thought I ordered 11 yards originally but I looked at my invoice and I only got 4 yards OOPSI will be doing the roof at a later time not sure when at the moment but it will probably be near the fall. I have been thinking of going with Second Skin Spectrum to spray on the roof as well as undercoating the car and wheel wells. But to keep cost down I might stick the the RaaMmat and ensolite for the roof. Who knows, my original budget for the rebuild was $500 so Ill probably do the Spectrum

[keithvibe]

i looked at http://www.lizardskin.com/pages/videos.php as an alternative when i did mine. It was a tough call between the mat and the spray. I wish i went with the spray... I think it would have turned out better and lighter.adding 120lbs to an already slow awd car is killing my pick up and my gas milage

[808 Vibes]

Aw, you know I'm always thinking about you guys {{{***}}} sending more baby dust and healing rays your way

[Amtron]

That's amazing! Great job! I can't wait to see the end result. I wish I could hear it too..

[audiovibe]

Quote, originally posted by Amtron »That's amazing! Great job! I can't wait to see the end result. I wish I could hear it too..Thanks man,Well not much of an update, I did get the wheel wells, and rear cavitys lined with ensolite and I have gotten all my interior back in. Deadning wise all the is left now is to deaden and ensolite the roof, put ensolite on the doors deaden and ensolite the door panels, (the front door pannels are already deadened. I think that will pretty much sum up the deadner. Today I started to mock up the amps and sub, and I put the p.c. and the Zapco DSP-6 in its final resting places here are a couple pics.The amps on the bottom are Zapco Reference 500.1s and the top amp is a Zapco Reference 360.4. I am in the process of picking up another Zapco 360.4 that will be mounted opposite of the other one to make it symmetrical. To finish off the cavity that the amps will be in i will be going back to the old school ways and finish it off in white formica.The p.c. will no longer be in the glove box, I decided to move it to the rear of the car. Dont mind the wires hanging down they will be techflexed after I cut them to length.The DSP-6 is the only thing not finding a new home in the rebuild.and last for today I can't believe I forgot to show my fuse blocks as I was super excited to find not one but two of them.Tomorrow after work if the weather cooperates I will start working on the kick panels to get the the 4" speakers mounted.Enjoy Aron

[audiovibe]

I was hoping to have some updates to share, but wed morn. I found out I was being sent to Wisconsin for work. Now I'm home and will start working on the mounting plates for the midrange, and midbass for the doors with some scrap MDF I have laying around.I was also hoping to get started on cutting mdf for the hatch, went to get some and none in stock until next week . So I guess I get an easy weekend.Aron

[Kamikaze]

Aron,I've been watching this thread, man what an awesome job! I love seeing all the pictures and watching the progress. Can't wait to hear this bad boy.Oh BTW I spy factory Deck for the time being in one of the photos.Must be torture to have to listen to that!

[audiovibe]

Yes Yes Yes it is killing me, The funny part is that I drove for a week with no music because I forgot I had the factory radio. Whats funnier is that I stare at it every day in my office at home.I made the top amp baffle today, I'll post some pics of it tomorrow not sure if Ill keep it or remake it at this time.Aron

[audiovibe]

Here is the top amp baffle I made yesterday. After looking at it today I will be remaking the piece as I want the amps to have a wider V shape to open the area for the 500.1s below.The last pic has a top board that I didnt show any cuts for because it was already cut and used for the amp mounting in the previous install.Enjoy Aron

[audiovibe]

Got a little done today, most of the day was spent getting the kicks in and mid bass in the doors in. first I'll hit up the midrange in the kick panel. I will be using the JL Audio XR400-CM from the XR653-cs 3 way that JL offered a few years ago. I had the set, I still have the set and I still like the set. I will probably upgrade in the future I just wanted to get something in there for the time being. The pics are kinda random from passenger side to the drivers side but you will get the Idea.Here is the speakerFor a 4" it is kinda deepHere are the steps that I went through making the baffels. These are for the second kick panel that I did or for the drivers side.Mark an X to find center quicklyWhen using a router you should always secure your work piece.After a quick couple passes this is what you end up with.Midrange, mounting bracket, and baffle.Here is the mock up of the baffle.The factory kick sound deadened on the face and the inside. there is a drain tube that runs through this area and the kick is vented to the rails under the car for anyone that was interested.I missed a couple photos but I had to cut some 1/2" MDF to use as a spacer and to bring the bottom out so it was perpendicular to the floor, I used 1/4-20 bolts to hold the baffle in place, one in the top center and one in the lower right as those were the only places that didn't need to be brought out with a spacer. Then I am on the the last of the pics for the midrange speakers. I deadened the kicks again to seal them up.Drivers side Passenger sideAfter the kicks were done I moved my attention to the doors to fit the midbass. I had the midbass in there before but I decided to cut the factory grill so I could allow a little more depth for the midbass. My previous spacer was 1.25" to allow the speaker to clear the window, as the Zapco CM-8.165s are 2.8" deep. The previous spacers were coated with the same blue liquid e-dead that was in the hatch to prevent moisture. That didn't work so well as when I removed them the MDF was split in half, but the Plywood that I used for the 1/2" was still fine. Anw ways I decided to just make some new baffles for the doors as well. The baffles are constructed of 1/2" plywood and 3/4" MDF, and are held together by wood glue and 3 screws that will fasten it to the door.Now I seem to have a problem I need to cut the door panel to get the new grill ring to fit.The trusty Porter Cable pnematic Saw fits the bill here. This is what I ended up with.Now I have another issue, I don't like the way the grill trim sits on the door.Gotta break out some heatThe door panel is extremely resistant to heat, It was getting hot enough to shrivel the e-dead on the back side of the panel but I couldn't get the panel to reform the slightest, which after I put the door panel back on I found that the midbass sits flush with the bottom on the door panel, so this is what I ended up with.I might mix up some body filler to flush the grill trim in but then the whole panel will need to be re textured to match, on second thought I might just dye the ring.For any one that is interested in my perfect circles this is the router attachment that I use, it is probably one of the best investments I have made.I also started to hook up one of the 360.4s today so I could have some good music in the car for the time being. I might be moving the 500.1s that will be for midbass to under the front seats.That will depend on how I like the looks of the 3 amps as opposed to 5 amps in the hatch. My second 360.4 should be here by Friday so I will play with placement next weekend.Enjoy Aron

[audiovibe]

In the last pic it shows drywall screws holding the grill trim in that will be changed when I get some longer pan head screws.Aron

[tribalman]

how are you powering all this? do you have 2 alternators? or just a really good aftermarket one?

[bull77]

wow -- it's coming along nicely how much is this setup going to cost?

[Ol' Timer]

Quote, originally posted by tribalman »how are you powering all this? Maybe with a portable one of these. Extremely nice work. Especially the detail. I can't even imagine how this will all sound when you are all done. I just hope the atmospheric pressure inside the car doesn't blow out any windows.

[ajflan]

That looks awesome so far! I can't wait to see the final product.

[keithvibe]

hope your putting in a nice state of the art alarm system.

[audiovibe]

Quote, originally posted by tribalman »how are you powering all this? do you have 2 alternators? or just a really good aftermarket one?Just the good ol' stock alternator for the time being, I will be doing a hi-out alt. from H.O. Alternators but probably wont be till next year as it runs about $750.Quote, originally posted by bull77 »wow -- it's coming along nicely how much is this setup going to cost?Thanks, and thanks for the nomination!!!!I have absolutely no idea, I am dreading the day I look at the receipts, also keep in mind that I had already had a couple of the amps, signal processor, front stage, p.c. and monitor. All I really added was a few more amps and the deadner with some new wires. I can tell ya that I did go slightly over the $500 rebuild budget.Quote, originally posted by Ol’ Timer »Maybe with a portable one of these. Extremely nice work. Especially the detail. I can't even imagine how this will all sound when you are all done. I just hope the atmospheric pressure inside the car doesn't blow out any windows.Well I was gonna get a Flux Capacitor http://www.thinkgeek.com/geektoys/plush/9fc6/ But then I would have to find a place to put the thing.Thank you much. When done the car really isn't going to be that loud, it will be tuned to a loudness of around 130db but I rarely ever crank loud, on average it will stay in the 70-90db range. I'm done with the crazy fell me from a block away bass stage, now I just want something that will sound great with no distortion.Quote, originally posted by ajflan »That looks awesome so far! I can't wait to see the final product.Much thanks Quote, originally posted by keithvibe »hope your putting in a nice state of the art alarm system.I was using the Alpine SEA-8081 alarm and had thoughts of going with a new Autopage unit because mostly of the cell phone control, but I have decided to stay with the 8081. most of the next week will be the reinstall of the alarm and my remote starter, that will be the only part of the install I will not be sharing publicly. the only downside to the alpine alarm is that the antenna range is only about 400ft, other then that I have a dual zone radar sensor, tilt sensor, dual zone impact sensor, window modules, 12 channel extension box, and the audio control interface, & 4 sirens. The audio control interface is a sweet piece because it allows you to control all audio functions on alpine radios, I however will not be installing that or the window modules. I had forgot I had the window modules for the longest time, I had them installed when I had my dodge ram about 10 years ago and pulled them out when I sold it.Thanks to all for looking.Aron

[audiovibe]

I didn't really do anything today as I am waiting on material to build the hatch, but I did take some pics of most of the little work I did. I made some grills for the kicks and midbass, well I really didn't make them.for the kick panels I took the stock kick and trimmed it out so the sound could still get out, then I glued on some speaker grill material to cover the panel, I am not to fond of the look so I may do something different down the road. for the midbass I went a different route. The trim ring that was shown in previous post was from an elemental designs 6.5" component set, but the grill had a huge lip. So the grill I decided to use is from a Digital Designs 6.5" component set the grill has a nice low profile but dosent seat well. I fixed that by taping the grill on the face and spraying glue around the edge and wrapping it with the same grill cloth. Here are a few picsMidrange grillI thought I had more of the midbass but all I could find was 1 pic. well here it isWell thats all for the pics today, I probably wont be updating any pics as I am waiting on material. I will however be reinstalling my alarm and remote start as I am moving the units. Unfortunately I will not be shearing any of the install pics, and hope y'all understand why, I will however be taking pics of the install for my log which will be with me when I go to meets and such.Today I did decide to toss in a couple amps just to get away from the stock sound, and to remind myself what I was missing from a 3 way system. I only tossed in two amps because I only had 4 maxi fuses, the p.c. has 2 power supplies and requires 2 fuses on the block. So I tossed a 360.4 in for the tweets and 4" midrange and tossed a 500.1 in for midbass. this limits me to running a mono midbass, which is not ideal. I am amazed after listening, it was super easy to toss in a quick tune. You can actually fell the midbass snap in your chest, I never thought that was possible. Now that I am able to toss some power to the midbass I can really see the potential, and the best part is when I am done they will be getting an extra 100 watts each. right now the 500.1 is running 2ohm and putting out 524 watts (so the birth certificate says), 262 each speaker. In 4 ohm the 500.1s are rated at 360 watts. Now I really cant wait.Aron

[Sublimewind]

This is really shaping up, and quickly.. lol.. High output alt... contact Maniac Electric Motors and see what they have to say.. I just got a 140A for my Subie for ~200$ (i'm not sending the core back, so I have a spare, if the HO one fails) it would be cheaper otherwise.. Also, consider a re-wind.. I was just yesterday at an alt/starter shop, I didn't know was in the area, and they said they could have beefed up my stocker, I didn't ask price though.. You NEED a second Battery man, if you can't upgrade the alt anytime soon, you will quickly kill the stocker... What do you think your overall output rating now? (at listening level?)I'm diggin the 4"ers, but it's a shame you couldn't get them a little more on axis.. you mave have been able to remove that magnet boot to get a little more room, I donno.. This Streetwires block are sexy.. Midi fuses right (mini ANL)I lucked out and my largest amps are fused at 20A (i'm going LOW LOW power on this one) so my whole system will be runn through this.. It's a Blue Sea Systems 12 gang box.. power and ground terminals, 30A rating on all 12 slots (125A max), so I can run EVERYTHING through this.. !!!

[audiovibe]

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »This is really shaping up, and quickly.. lol.. High output alt... contact Maniac Electric Motors and see what they have to say.. I just got a 140A for my Subie for ~200$ (i'm not sending the core back, so I have a spare, if the HO one fails) it would be cheaper otherwise.. Also, consider a re-wind.. I was just yesterday at an alt/starter shop, I didn't know was in the area, and they said they could have beefed up my stocker, I didn't ask price though.. You NEED a second Battery man, if you can't upgrade the alt anytime soon, you will quickly kill the stocker... What do you think your overall output rating now? (at listening level?)I'm diggin the 4"ers, but it's a shame you couldn't get them a little more on axis.. you mave have been able to remove that magnet boot to get a little more room, I donno.. This Streetwires block are sexy.. Midi fuses right (mini ANL)I lucked out and my largest amps are fused at 20A (i'm going LOW LOW power on this one) so my whole system will be runn through this.. It's a Blue Sea Systems 12 gang box.. power and ground terminals, 30A rating on all 12 slots (125A max), so I can run EVERYTHING through this.. !!! Trying to shape up a lil here and a lil there. Maniac Electric Motors has a 130 amp for $212 I am on IM with them right now thanks for the lead A few years ago I looked into rewound alts from a buddy that had a alt shop, I remember he advised me to look toward the hi out alts before considering a rewind. Also hi rewinds cost between $200-$300 for a 200 amp rewind.I think I will probably order an alt next month. Originally, last year I was going to do dual Honda Optimas under the hood, but I might be looking into a couple Kinetics down the road.I was gonna run and check the amps to get a voltage and do some conversions but my DMM has decided to kill its batteries , but at regular listening levels I'd guestimate around 300 watts of the available 1800 rms.Thanks, I was thinking about building a baffle to get them a lil more on axis, but when I was playing with angleing the more on axis they got they were easier to locate, and narrowed the width. Eventually I want to switch to a dyn 4".I really like the blue sea systems, I have the six gang from a previous install that will be going into the wifes car, I also have I believe its a 6 gang fuse block from them that will be used to fuse the monitor, DSP-6, and any accent lighting that I might add in the future.I never even thought about their 12 gang block, and since I am haveing such a pain in the @ss time trying to get the two streetwires blocks in I might change them out for it. I bought the Streetwires blocks on a whim because I knew if I was going to use them I would need 2 of them, and since they are so hard to come by (yes they are the midi blocks).Power wise I will have the amps and pc power supplies fused at 30 each, all amps are rated for a 40 amp fuse but since the power will be for overhead I don't think I am gonna hurt any thing or pop the fuses buy swapping them down to a 30 amp. That's my plan for the most part anyway but that could all change.on a side note my normal work day ends at 2:00 p.m. I was at wort today until 4:30 so sadly I was unable to hit the alarm Aron

[audiovibe]

I think I'm gonna give the Maniac alts a try; from 2000 rpm and above I will have 130 amps on tap and when they heat up it will deliver the same current. On the down side its not the 250 amp[ I wanted top run but its also not $760. I will probably add this about a month after I complete the build.Thanks for the lead AaronAron

[Sublimewind]

Glad to be of service.. You know everything about charging system upgrades, so I won't go into it, but the more beef you have on that end, the more beef you will have on the other... lol.. If your amps are rated for 40A, I wouldn't go 30A, which would be the MAX rating for each gang of the BSS block... If you wanted to get sirly with the volume control, you could be looking at a melted box.. lol.. you are welcome to try though... I would try and get one of those streetwires blocks in... maybe between the sub and amps..?? I would assume you are running 1/0awg back from the front??

[audiovibe]

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »Glad to be of service.. If your amps are rated for 40A, I wouldn't go 30A, which would be the MAX rating for each gang of the BSS block... If you wanted to get sirly with the volume control, you could be looking at a melted box.. lol.. you are welcome to try though... Really? I would have never thought, I was thinking it would be more of a safeguard thing. So in turn I could potentially end up with the same results as running an 80 amp fuse?Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »I would assume you are running 1/0awg back from the front?? Oh yes I think the 0ga is about the only wire I am reusing other then the symbilink cables, but shame on me as I still haven't done the big three upgrade. That will have to be done with the new alt though.Aron

[wyatt89]

Wow, this is really shaping up nicely. I'm digging the 3 way setup and it's ridiculously clean but like sublime said the mids will be a bit off axis compared to the rest. I wish you lived closer as I would love to hear this when it's done

[tribalman]

i saw in another thread you said you'd be up for a meet at starved rock? just to hear this thing i'm willing to try and make a meet-up there. xD what's the expected completion date? i'll set the date for 2 weeks after.

[audiovibe]

Quote, originally posted by wyatt89 »Wow, this is really shaping up nicely. I'm digging the 3 way setup and it's ridiculously clean but like sublime said the mids will be a bit off axis compared to the rest. I wish you lived closer as I would love to hear this when it's done Thanks, everything will be off axis. The Zapco tweets were designed to be played off axis as once they start to become on axis they are very bright and harsh. The reason the mids are off axis is because when I played with positioning there were some dramatic sound changes. When they were on axis the sound stage was being brought down, the width was narrowed well between the a pillars (the sound seemed to span from the center of the steering wheel to about the middle of the airbag), the sound became localized, and the car was a one seat car. With the mids on axis when you got in the passanger seat the sound was way over to the left and with the tweet being off axis it really didn't mesh well with the sound. With the mids off axis the mids are no longer localized, the width spans from mirror to mirror, stage height is closer to eye level, and there are minimal changes between seats. The stage still shifts to the left in the passenger seat. Most of the issues I had could have been fixed by making the mids 180 degrees out of phase, adjusting time alignment, eq, or adjusting x-over points and slopes, but if it sounds better off axis I will have to do fewer adjustments in the end.Quote, originally posted by tribalman »i saw in another thread you said you'd be up for a meet at starved rock? just to hear this thing i'm willing to try and make a meet-up there. xD what's the expected completion date? i'll set the date for 2 weeks after.I am shooting for the end of the month, I have a Mp3Car meet at Busse Woods North (the same place as the mini IL meet a couple years ago) on the 31st if ya want you could swing by and have a listen and check out the car pc's people are running. Just let me know.Aron

[audiovibe]

Also there wont be any pic updates probably until the weekend, today its raining, tomorrow I have a job interview in the late afternoon, and I have a ton of stuff going on Friday after work.Aron

[Sublimewind]

Quote, originally posted by audiovibe »Thanks, everything will be off axis. The Zapco tweets were designed to be played off axis as once they start to become on axis they are very bright and harsh. The reason the mids are off axis is because when I played with positioning there were some dramatic sound changes. When they were on axis the sound stage was being brought down, the width was narrowed well between the a pillars (the sound seemed to span from the center of the steering wheel to about the middle of the airbag), the sound became localized, and the car was a one seat car. With the mids on axis when you got in the passanger seat the sound was way over to the left and with the tweet being off axis it really didn't mesh well with the sound. With the mids off axis the mids are no longer localized, the width spans from mirror to mirror, stage height is closer to eye level, and there are minimal changes between seats. The stage still shifts to the left in the passenger seat. Most of the issues I had could have been fixed by making the mids 180 degrees out of phase, adjusting time alignment, eq, or adjusting x-over points and slopes, but if it sounds better off axis I will have to do fewer adjustments in the end.AronI was wondering about that... some speakers are just "sweeter" off-axis, while some are better on-axis... I figured you had done some testing... I've got my fingers crossed right now with my system, hoping that my IDQ8's integrate well enough into my horns to not need a dedicated midrange.. If I have to add another set of drivers and an amp, my design is shot..