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Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer their own questions?
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 11:03 pm
by ned23
Okay, I've called Pontiac's customer service line about 4 times with questions. I actually ran these questions by the dealer first and the dealer was not entirely sure of the answers. Each time I called Pontiac's customer service, they just called my dealer or literally told me to call another dealer. First, I had a question about availability of Fog Light parts. The dealer didn't know what the answer was but said they'd let me know if they got notice of a "kit." Second, I asked about adjusting the accelerator. The dealer said "it was Probably acting normally and all they could do was check and see if it was factory spec. In fact I called TWO dealers and neither one was entirely positive about whether it was adjustable. Third, I had a question about the maximum Ethanol content of fuel. The dealer didn't know that either. And last, I asked about what the normal operation of the flip-shifter was. Dealer gave me same answer as with accelerator. So, I made calls to Pontiac, who very graciously called me back and informed me each time that they'd called my dealer. Well, if the dealer had a concrete answer I'd not have had to call THEM in the first place. Talk about useless!
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer their own questions? (ned23)
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:14 am
by 5speed4
Generally speaking, I find car dealers and car salesmen to be among the most clueless people in the work force. There are exceptions, but not many. Maybe call a Toyota dealer and tell them you have a Matrix and see if they're more informed?
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer th ... (5speed4)
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 12:57 am
by ned23
Quote, originally posted by 5speed4 »Generally speaking, I find car dealers and car salesmen to be among the most clueless people in the work force. There are exceptions, but not many. Maybe call a Toyota dealer and tell them you have a Matrix and see if they're more informed?Good idea. I will try that. And you're correct, the dealers don't know everything, that's why I call the manufacturer - to verify the information. I've had dealers literally MSU me ( "make-stuff-up" ) that was erroneous and I've gotten different answers from different delaers. Am I crazy, or isn't the whole purpose of a manufacturer having customer service in the first place is to ensure that people get consistent, correct information about their products??? In the meantime, it would be nice if I could get answers straight from the manufacturer instead of via dealers who have limited experience with a brand new 2nd generation model.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer th ... (ned23)
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:46 am
by jake75
I bought a new Buick Estate wagon in 1977. It kept blowing ignition modules. Back then the warranty was 1 year. I think the first one went out at about 13 months. [Also went through starter motors every 5,000 miles. They replaced the first starter motor at 11 months 29 days. The rest were on my dime.}. The dealer couldn't find the problem. I wrote to Buick. Even though I explained that the dealer could not find the problem, they sent me a form letter that said I should contact the dealer as they were the best source of information. A local independent shop specializing in electrical problems suggested it might be the spark plug cable. Put on a new set - ignition module problem was solved. It still ate up starter motors - all you seemed to be able to buy were rebuilt ones. I didn't buy another GM until my 2003 Vibe - and of course it is really not exactly GM.. That's 26 years during which I would never even consider a GM make - just because of their unwillingness to try and help me solve this basic defect in a car they designed and built.Apparently things have not changed. Let 'em go broke for all I care.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer their own questions? (ned23)
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:28 am
by Caretaker
Pontiac, Chevy, Buick, (et.al) service reps are nothing more than old ladies who are there to make you feel like a valuable customer. They have no clue, and are there to simply push the stupid public with their stupid questions (generally), back to the clueless dealerships where every salesperson is a reject hamburger flipper from Wendy's. Then, when you try to get ahold of GM service, they are there to stall, insult, deflect and protect the queen bee. The whole system is a sham. Pick your cars carefully people; there is no one standing at the ready to serve your needs. Thanks Mr. President for bailing them out
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer th ... (13Vibe03)
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:18 am
by 5speed4
In 2007, I had a salesman tell me that all GM vehicles now have variable valve timing (VVT) and displacement on demand (DOD, where half the cylinders shut off under low-load conditions). I just nodded and let it go. In reality, many of GM's engines are still without VVT (3.8L, DTS 4.6L, G8's 6.0L, all of the corvette engines, all of the truck engines), and only certain optioned 5.3L engines have DOD. Edited: Corrected to exclude the 3.5L engine as mentioned below.It does indeed have VVT.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer th ...
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 8:37 am
by ColonelPanic
It seems to me it really doesn't matter what brand you buy - if you buy a car, you're going to have to deal with complete douchebags - at the dealer and corporate level if you ever have to contact them. "Customer service" rarely gives a crap about you or the products they are supporting. These companies aren't going to pay enough to attract the car experts, who I doubt would want to sit around and answer phones for a living anyway. So they just find warm bodies for a low price that find answers from wherever they can.GM isn't the only one to blame. I'm sure if you called someone even *gasp* like the mighty Toyota, you're still dealing with the same clueless people who aren't willing to help.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer th ... (ColonelPanic)
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 1:32 pm
by 5speed4
Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »GM isn't the only one to blame. I'm sure if you called someone even *gasp* like the mighty Toyota, you're still dealing with the same clueless people who aren't willing to help. Agreed. I didn't mean to impugn GM dealers/salesmen alone. It's the entire industry. It attracts the low-brows of the world.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer th ... (5speed4)
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 3:10 pm
by ragingfish
Quote, originally posted by 5speed4 »In 2007, I had a salesman tell me that all GM cars now have variable valve timing (VVT) and displacement on demand (DOD, where half the cylinders shut off under low-load conditions). I just nodded and let it go. In reality, only the Vibe's 1.8L, the Ecotec 2.4L, the 3.6L, and the STS's 4.6L had VVT, and only certain optioned 5.3L engines had DOD. To this day, all their workhorse engines (2.2L, 3.5L, 3.8L, 3.9L, truck 4.3L, truck 4.8L, most truck 5.3L, truck 6.0L, truck 8.1L) don't have either.I know for a fact the current generation of the 3500 DOES have VVT.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer their own questions? (ned23)
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 4:16 pm
by ou.grizzly
1. There are not fog light kits; you need to purchase the parts individually and install.2. Why do you want to adjust the accelerator? If you want to, pop the hood and start wrenching. 3. Why would Pontiac have the answer to the ethanol content the Vibe can handle? The Vibe is Toyota Engineering. The Vibe is not made to handle straight up Ethanol. So why is this question relevant. 1 person did not design every nut, bolt, muffler clamp and then put it together. You may want to contact a engineer at Toyota to have 2 of your questions answered. Pontiac Assistance is there to help you if you have an issue with your warranty work, work done at the dealer, and etc. They are not there to answer technical questions for you.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer ... (ou.grizzly)
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 1:33 am
by jake75
Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »3. Why would Pontiac have the answer to the ethanol content the Vibe can handle? The Vibe is Toyota Engineering. The Vibe is not made to handle straight up Ethanol. So why is this question relevant. 1 person did not design every nut, bolt, muffler clamp and then put it together. You may want to contact a engineer at Toyota to have 2 of your questions answered. Pontiac Assistance is there to help you if you have an issue with your warranty work, work done at the dealer, and etc. They are not there to answer technical questions for you.And the Toyota people would certainly tell you to call GM for any and all questions concerning the Vibe.I believe NUMMI is a 50/50 joint venture between GM and Toyota. GM markets the Pontiac Vibe - they ought darn well be able to answer questions about it and not point to their 50% partner. If you buy a new GM car such as the Vibe (which is a GM car) then GM has responsibility.As you may remember - we could never even get a straight answer as to what antifreeze was originally in the Vibe. If it was Dexcool that is supposedly a 5 year product, but the maintenance schedule says to change every 24 months or 24,000 miles.Unfortunately GM does not seem to accept their responsibility and that is why many are so ticked off that we'd just as soon see them go belly up as send them our tax dollars. GM's attitude on this is just as arrogant as taking their private jet to Washington to ask Congress for money.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer ... (ou.grizzly)
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:06 am
by kevera
Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »2. Why do you want to adjust the accelerator? If you want to, pop the hood and start wrenching. It's Drive by wire,so no physical adjustment can be done.Now,the previous version of the vibe/matrix had a reset procedure.You may want to talk to Toyota about that,or search on scion forums and maybe you'll get lucky.As for the foglamps,I would first make sure the wiring is present before you buy foglamps,then with that answered,you'd have to buy them individually.With a little searching you should be able to awswer your questions.The new Vibe/Matrix is newly redesigned,so getting answers from the dealer/GM will take some time.Stop being pig-headed and search your answers out and stop whining.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer ... (kevera)
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:24 am
by jake75
Quote, originally posted by kevera »With a little searching you should be able to awswer your questions.The new Vibe/Matrix is newly redesigned,so getting answers from the dealer/GM will take some time.Stop being pig-headed and search your answers out and stop whining. Kevera - you must have owned that Chevy dealer I once went to - the one with the sign in their service dept that read - "We don't have loaner cars so don't ask".
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer ... (kevera)
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:44 am
by ou.grizzly
Quote, originally posted by kevera »It's Drive by wire,so no physical adjustment can be done.Now,the previous version of the vibe/matrix had a reset procedure.You may want to talk to Toyota about that,or search on scion forums and maybe you'll get lucky.As for the foglamps,I would first make sure the wiring is present before you buy foglamps,then with that answered,you'd have to buy them individually.With a little searching you should be able to awswer your questions.The new Vibe/Matrix is newly redesigned,so getting answers from the dealer/GM will take some time.Stop being pig-headed and search your answers out and stop whining. Let him figure that out
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer ... (kevera)
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 10:13 am
by prathman
Quote, originally posted by kevera »Stop being pig-headed and search your answers out and stop whining. Someone who buys a Vibe is a GM customer so it seems reasonable to expect that he could get answers to his technical questions from GM's Customer Service organization. I wouldn't necessarily expect them to have all answers immediately, but they should know whom to contact to get up-to-date accurate information on all the vehicles sold by the corporation. If that sometimes requires the customer service rep to get in touch with some Toyota engineers then they should do so- they should be in a better position to know whom to contact within Toyota than either the customer or a Pontiac dealer.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer ... (prathman)
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 7:18 pm
by kevera
True.But,haven't we all learned from past experiences that GM hasn't a clue when it comes to the Vibe.So why would they be able to answer the OP's simply questions.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer th ... (ragingfish)
Posted: Sun Dec 21, 2008 1:10 pm
by 5speed4
Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »I know for a fact the current generation of the 3500 DOES have VVT.I stand corrected. The 3.5L does indeed have VVT (in fact it's the first "in-block-cam engines" with VVT. Nevertheless, it doesn't have DOD.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer ... (prathman)
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:18 am
by ned23
Quote, originally posted by prathman »Someone who buys a Vibe is a GM customer so it seems reasonable to expect that he could get answers to his technical questions from GM's Customer Service organization. I wouldn't necessarily expect them to have all answers immediately, but they should know whom to contact to get up-to-date accurate information on all the vehicles sold by the corporation. If that sometimes requires the customer service rep to get in touch with some Toyota engineers then they should do so- they should be in a better position to know whom to contact within Toyota than either the customer or a Pontiac dealer.That's kind of what I expected. I figured someone would route the question to someone on the relevant Vibe project team who would then get back to me with an answer, in some period of time, perhaps even a week or two. Instead, they just called the dealer who didn't know the answer. I did ask the dealer first, and the dealer did not know the answer to the questions. For example, they did not know if or when Pontiac would offer a kit for the fog lamps. So, I'm wondering: Do I wait? or if no kit is coming out any time soon, should I look for an after market solution? That seems like a perfectly reasonable question to me. Why am I being "whiny" ??
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer ... (kevera)
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:20 am
by ned23
Quote, originally posted by kevera »It's Drive by wire,so no physical adjustment can be done.Now,the previous version of the vibe/matrix had a reset procedure.You may want to talk to Toyota about that,or search on scion forums and maybe you'll get lucky.As for the foglamps,I would first make sure the wiring is present before you buy foglamps,then with that answered,you'd have to buy them individually.With a little searching you should be able to awswer your questions.The new Vibe/Matrix is newly redesigned,so getting answers from the dealer/GM will take some time.Stop being pig-headed and search your answers out and stop whining. If you'd has the opportunity to read any of my previous posts on here about this subject, you'd know that I already covered all of those issues before I started making calls, including verifying that the wiring was already in place for the fog lamps. Quote, originally posted by jake75 »And the Toyota people would certainly tell you to call GM for any and all questions concerning the Vibe.Of course, so if I called Toyta, I would impersonate a Matrix Owner Quote »As you may remember - we could never even get a straight answer as to what antifreeze was originally in the Vibe. If it was Dexcool that is supposedly a 5 year product, but the maintenance schedule says to change every 24 months or 24,000 miles.Seems like a pretty important specification, wouldn't you think? People should be able to know what the correct fluids are to replace. I had this same issue with my last Vibe. I got conflicting answers from several dealers / repair shops. Some told me it was dexcool and they would not replace it or it would cost 5x as much. Others said they just thought it was colored orange for some reason. I finally gave up and just did a flush and replaced with regular coolant. I think that was eventually determined to be the correct answer.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer ... (ou.grizzly)
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 12:43 am
by ned23
Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »1. There are not fog light kits; you need to purchase the parts individually and install.Yes, I know that. I posted that answer in the fog lamp thread here in this forum in the "Exterior..." section. I found the answer by process of elimination, though, not by getting an actual direct answer from anyone. I still do not know if they plan to offer one in the future for the 2nd generation vibes. At this point I assume not. Quote »2. Why do you want to adjust the accelerator? If you want to, pop the hood and start wrenching. If you read my accelerator thread I started in the Engine section, I explained why I wanted to adjust it. I was having difficulty with it and my passengers were complaining that the new car was making them "car sick. " (in fact, I've also got mild parkinsons symptoms for which I take medicine and have difficulty with fine motor control in my feet, so that's another reason I didn't mention)Quote » 3. Why would Pontiac have the answer to the ethanol content the Vibe can handle? The Vibe is Toyota Engineering. The Vibe is not made to handle straight up Ethanol. So why is this question relevant. Again, I explained why it was relevant in the thread I started on the subject. It was because the owners manual did not clearly say and because the salesperson who sold me the vehicle actually said "yeah, I think so,..." when I asked about ethanol E-85. They were wrong. I almost filled up with it but luckily checked first. Quote »1 person did not design every nut, bolt, muffler clamp and then put it together...Pontiac Assistance is there to help you if you have an issue with your warranty work, work done at the dealer, and etc. They are not there to answer technical questions for you. That's true. The topic for debate (hence the reason I started the thread) was " This is what it (customer service) is - Are you okay with that?" It sounds like you are, which is fine.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer ... (ned23)
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 2:26 am
by ou.grizzly
Quote, originally posted by ned23 »If you read my accelerator thread I started in the Engine section, I explained why I wanted to adjust it. I was having difficulty with it and my passengers were complaining that the new car was making them "car sick. " (in fact, I've also got mild parkinsons symptoms for which I take medicine and have difficulty with fine motor control in my feet, so that's another reason I didn't mention)Again, I explained why it was relevant in the thread I started on the subject. It was because the owners manual did not clearly say and because the salesperson who sold me the vehicle actually said "yeah, I think so,..." when I asked about ethanol E-85. They were wrong. I almost filled up with it but luckily checked first.It is a drive by wire system and unfortunately I am not sure if there is any software or a chip available for the ECU on the 2009 Vibe to change the shifting patterns and etc. As for the symptoms of Parkinson disease and with the uncoordinated fine motor skills in your lower extremities, you may want to look into upper extremity gas/brake controls. With the correct dosage, close monitoring, period blood work, those symptoms can be controlled for a certain amount of time. Might be best to contact your neurologist and how to proceed if you are having difficulties driving. Any vehicle that can run on E-85 that is GM will say "flex fuel" on it or will indicate it on the fuel cap/door area or the owners manual. Otherwise if does not state that, 87 + octane only.
Re: Pontiac Customer Service Calls Your Dealer - Why can't they answer ... (ou.grizzly)
Posted: Wed Dec 24, 2008 4:55 am
by ned23
Quote, originally posted by ou.grizzly »As for the symptoms of Parkinson disease and with the uncoordinated fine motor skills in your lower extremities, you may want to look into upper extremity gas/brake controls. With the correct dosage, close monitoring, period blood work, those symptoms can be controlled for a certain amount of time. Might be best to contact your neurologist and how to proceed if you are having difficulties driving. I'm sure that's something that will happen down the road. For right now it's just a matter that I don't have really fine control in that I cannot precisely hold my foot still and move in precise 1/8th inch increments. Simply making the pedal a little mushier would solve the issue pretty well. I had no problkems with my tracker which had a very "truck-like" pedal. Quote » Any vehicle that can run on E-85 that is GM will say "flex fuel" on it or will indicate it on the fuel cap/door area or the owners manual. Otherwise if does not state that, 87 + octane only. So shouldn't the owners manual just say that? Take a look at your owners manual. It doesn't say anything. It does not say the car can or cannot use ethanol in any amount. I've actually talked to a couple of people in the business and determined that most modern engines can handle up to 30-35% ethanol with no problems. They know that, and it doesn't take a lot of ink to put that in the manual. Canada offers an E-30 blend in most places at least part of the year; how would you know whether you could use that or not?