GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

I was in a body shop today and seen an 08 White Vibe with some front end damage nothing major hood bumper etc and i noticed with the front cover off. The unbelievable amount of restriction put to these engines wow there is a hose at least 2 feet long maybe 2" in diameter coiled up behind the bumper for the intial air inlet and that is hidden behind a bumper cover and metal brace and then snakes to the air box witch is way busy and then a few silencers built into the inlet before it gets to the plenum Wow couldnt beleive it!No point to this thread just was a little shocked how air starved these motors appeared to be!

Yeah, I noticed that too with my 09 GT. I think the intake system is focused on noise reduction and fuel efficiency.

thank god for aftermarket air intakes...i've noticed a difference in performance(not alot but enough to notice) also the sound is awesome..plus better fuel consumption

If the intake was restrictive, the engine would run rich.................it doesn't. Lot's of engineering goes into designing a system that flows more air than the engine can draw AND is quiet. Looks is not part of the factory intake equation. A noisy/pretty intake doesn't automatically equate to better air flow. Aftermarket marketing departments wouldn't lie to ya.........................would they?

so are you saying that an aftermarket intake would not give better performance with an 09 vibe gt????

Any induction system from the factory balances the flow requirements of the engine with the desired NVH requirements. These systems are designed with a certain maximum restriction so that engine performance is maintained. I don't know of any manufacturer that would sacrifice engine performance for NVH. The induction system then becomes part of an overall engine calibration. Changing the flow path, size and shape may not improve performance, in fact it could hurt it. You will mostly get more induction noise and the potential for a couple more HP but it probably isn't worth the cost. These induction systems are also designed to minimum requirements for water ingestion. All the aftermarket systems I've seen do nothing to prevent water from being drawn into the intake and some can make that risk considerable. Is the few HP you might gain worth the noise and potential hydrolocking of your engine? I wouldn't take that chance.

Quote, originally posted by Silversn95 »... These induction systems are also designed to minimum requirements for water ingestion. All the aftermarket systems I've seen do nothing to prevent water from being drawn into the intake and some can make that risk considerable. Is the few HP you might gain worth the noise and potential hydrolocking of your engine? I wouldn't take that chance.I know NascarXprt will attest to that!

........and IF there's a couple of hp to be gained, it's most likely only at redline rpms........not in the <4000 rpm range where 99.999% of driving a street car with a stock engine is done.

An engine is just a big air pump essentially the more air and fuel you get through it the better it will run!With that said any engine will run better if it breaths better my intial point was compared to the 03 of mine and what it came with, these new ones are way restricted, like most newer cars are for silence reasons more than anything but if you ever get to see a new one with the front bumper off you'll see what i mean, Be it performance or regular driving you free that breathing up and it will make a noticeable differance, I put a K&N typhoon intake on mine and has been on there for 5 years and it picked up the throttle response and noticeable seat of the pants differance, And DJB you will notice it down low in the rpms and upper ecs with a nice system liek K&N or an Injen peice not to mention you pick up the fuel mileage increase aswell, overall great up grade thats why its usally the first one to be donehttp://www.cardomain.com/membe...e.jpg

First, you can't go by the seat of the pants dyno. The added noise might just be giving you the perception of more power but not really doing anything at all. Like I said, some of these systems might get you a couple HP but it isn't the most bang for your buck, makes more noise (some people don't mind this however), increases the risk of water ingestion and on some systems I'm sure the filtering efficiency is reduced. Not to mention in some newer induction systems they have built in hydrocarbon absorbers to meet strict emissions requirements. I'm not sure if the Vibe has one however.

Well seat of the pants and dyno is an oxy moron, and if you can notice it just by the feel of it in one of these not so powerful cars its making a differance. and with a good filtration system its not going to get any water in it!ecs tucked up high in the car the way they are, and last time i checked these particular sytems FREE up NOT ad up to 10-12 HP witch isnt alot but again enough too feel in the seat of your pants lol even a drop in filter is a nice addition to any car check out K&N's systems amazing stuff as most already know.

K&N filters are junk. Good way to ingest large enough abrasive particles to score your cylinders. They have poor performance in standard dust ingestion testing that all OEM systems are required to pass. Plus just changing the OEM filter with the a K&N will do absolutely nothing for performance. The actual filter itself doesn't pose any significant airflow restriction. Nearly all the induction system restriction comes from the shape and size (length of ducts, number of bends). But like I mentioned, they are still designed for optimum performance targets for engine power and NVH. Don't believe everything you here from these aftermarket companies. Remember that they want your money so they say and do what it takes to get it.

Quote, originally posted by Silversn95 »K&N filters are junk. Good way to ingest large enough abrasive particles to score your cylinders. They have poor performance in standard dust ingestion testing that all OEM systems are required to pass.Agreed. Here's an independent test of a wide variety of air filters:http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htmWhile these were models made for a larger diesel engine, the relative performance of the same type of filters made for our Vibes should be pretty close. The key conclusion with regard to the K&N was "Compared to the AC[Delco] (i.e. OEM paper-type), the K&N “plugged up” nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons."While the aftermarket filters initially were less restrictive than the OEM filter, they did much worse at filtering out particulates in the air. The most harmful are the small sand (silicon dioxide) particles that are highly abrasive. Tests by Bob, the oil guy, also showed poorer filtering and there have been several reports of used oil analysis showing increased silicon levels with the aftermarket filters.And they didn't even retain their freer breathing advantage for long since they clogged up much quicker than the OEM style of filter.

These filters do require that they be cleaned, " unlike buying a new one everytime" but dirt and sand dont penetrate the filter where as they would harm anything ive had mine pretty dirty right before cleaning and after removing it the inside plenum is still super clean and shinny. great system and yet dirty they still out perform any factory filter, isnt hard to figure put witch one to use there.But again most people dont even look at there filter let alone worry about any advantage they may bring to there car mileage or performance wise so the points probably mute. lol

Quote, originally posted by high revin »These filters do require that they be cleaned, " unlike buying a new one everytime" but dirt and sand dont penetrate the filter where as they would harm anythingThat's not what the tests cited just above showed. They measured the particulates that did get through the filters and would therefore make it into the engine. These are pretty small particles so once they get through the filter they'd be sucked right into the engine cylinders so it's not surprising that you don't see them in the plenum. But that doesn't mean they aren't gradually doing damage to the internal engine parts.And based on the tests, the K&N would have to be cleaned about three times as often as you'd otherwise change the OEM filter to avoid having even more airflow restriction. At about $12/filter I'd rather pay that than have the hassle of three cleanings, not to mention the benefits of less abrasive material getting into the engine.Quote »great system and yet dirty they still out perform any factory filter, isnt hard to figure put witch one to use there.But again most people dont even look at there filter let alone worry about any advantage they may bring to there car mileage or performance wise so the points probably mute. lolNo it isn't hard to figure out which one to use - the one that protects better and remains free-flowing longer. That would be the OEM filter based on every *independent* test that I've seen. And again, based on the test results cited above, the K&N did not provide better airflow once it picked up even a little bit of dirt from the air in the test. Look at the "Dust Loading" curves in that report. The K&N started with slightly less restriction (about 4.5 vs. 6 measured in inches of water pressure) but only about a third of the way through the test, when 180 g of dust had been passed, the curve for the K&N rose steeply and it exceeded the restriction of the AC Delco OEM filter from then on.

prathman, I just read the attached report and fully agree with the findings. We have also tested drop in K&N filters against OEM filters and found similar results but on a smaller scale for regular passenger cars. We actually recorded even lower initial efficiency numbers, closer to 92%. That would make me worried if I pass through a dust cloud the farmers like creating around here

.............but Dudes, if it's shiney and noisy and cost several hundred dollars, it must make more power.........right???????

Quote, originally posted by djb383 ».............but Dudes, if it's shiney and noisy and cost several hundred dollars, it must make more power.........right??????? That pretty much sums up the whole conversation. The old "seat of the pants dyno" is in reality a rationalization mechanism that helps the dude who just spent hard earned cash purchasing, and precious time installing that new "performance" part, justify his/her expenditure. Those engineers at the OEM don't get paid big bucks to develop systems that are inferior to the aftermarket for a given purpose. K&N filters, like many aftermarket products, may not help and may not hurt, but go for it if it makes you feel good. At least buy local and support your local economy. PlatinumVibe08

Hey Platinum, we have 2 things in common.....a Vibe and ahttp://img509.imageshack.us/my...l.jpg

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »Hey Platinum, we have 2 things in common.....a Vibe and ahttp://img509.imageshack.us/my...l.jpgNice lookin' Rex djb. So as to not totally hijack this thread, my '02 ZRX breathes quite well with the Ivan's jet kit and airbox mod in conjuction with the Muzzy block offs and the Akropovic full exhaust system. I found out that with my set-up, the bike runs too lean with a K&N filter so the stock paper element air filter is ideal. Check out my vid:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5koJR2N ... inumVibe08

Dude, awesome video......wish I could do that. The red Rex's really are the fastest. I read somewhere "I cried when I could not wheelie, then I met a man who didn't have a bike".