GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Hi, I'm doing research on turboing an AWD/4WD Vibe.Right now it's stock (except an CAI).I was thinking about changing the torque converter, putting a tranny cooler, oil cooler, piggy-back (GRedyy eManage or unichip), hi flow cat/muffler then going turbo (all of those wouldn’t be installed the same year!)I don't have any specs on the AWD system (how much torque/rpm it can handle).I'm looking for about 250-270 hp.I'm pretty sure I'll have to custom fit the fittings/tubes (since it’s an AWD)I wanted to know what you're thinking about it (cost,installation,worth doing it). I though of having a budget of 5000$.It seems around 250 HP, there's wheels slippage issues at 1st and 2rd gear but though if it’s an AWD, I shouldn't have this issue.Thank you for any thoughs/ideas and feedbacks.Cheers

I think you would be looking at transmission issues, and you're going to shorten the life of the motor putting that much boost in. I'm sure some people that have actually turboed there cars will chime in. Be ready for headaches though, modded cars often are.

I also did a lot of research on f/I in the AWD. I decided to stay N/A for now. I would do a tranny cooler for now. I would wait on the oild cooler until you know you are for sure going F/I. And then if you are , get a MWR oil cooler which has a built in thermostat to prevent over cooling. If going F/I I would go with the e-manage and not the Unichip. The Unichip is being discontinued for our cars.The E-manage is much easier for shops to tune. If you are looking for 250hp then you would be better of getting your engine built-up $$$$$$$$$$. If you can live with 200hp+/- then the stock engine should be fine. $5000 seems kind of low unless you know people and can get some great deals. I'd say more like $7500+ for what you want to do. There's wheel slippage with the S/c putting out only 160hp...lol. No telling how the AWD system will be able to handle 200hp. The most I have heard was about 160whp. Everyone that had F/I on their AWD has only had it on the for 6 months or less. Good Luck with your project and keep us updated.

Loll, I knew I should have gotten a volvo S40 T5 AWD loll! But my girlfriend wanted the vibe (because the volvol's trunk was a bit too small for camping equipment).I'll have to do some research on specs of the AWD to know how much it can handle

there were only one or two folks that had s/c their AWD vibe/trix. I believe greenfire and another guy on MO way back when. The AWD just can't handle the added power.If you want a turbo AWD in a hatch without spending a small fortune, then look at the new 09 Subura WRX coming out around the corner. they upped the power to 265 hp from 230 hp. or find an 08 WRX hatch. You can get them for pretty cheap now that the 09 is going to be "better".

AWD's that were Supercharged:Greenfire - Matrix AWD - Blew the engine due to running lean.Trevinous - Matrix AWD - Ran for 6 months then went back to stock. Still has his AWD, I believe.RocketRobin - Matrix AWD - Ran for 6 months. Constantly tweaked it to get it running properly. Sold it and bought a Subaru with a factory turbo.I don't believe there has been a Vibe AWD with any sort of F/I yet....? I was close a couple times...lol.....soooooooooo close....

Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »The AWD just can't handle the added power.How can we be sure the AWD can't handle the power? Nobody tried it yet (I don't want to be the first one to blow the AWD tho loll!) but I don't have any specs/model no. I would have to find model no of differentials, drive shaft, transfer case ...) and compare to torque/rpm the turbo would develop.

Personally, I think you would be on the constant path of fail... It's just not the car for it.. like others have said, starting with something already designed for F/I is the way to go, otherwise you have to worry about fueling issues, no return line on the vibe, so a high pressure/flow pump is out, unless you want to retro one in... (backed by BC's post above, run lean conditions)To high of compression (guessing here)all the non-existant engine management for going Turbo, have to be fitted.. THEN, you get to put your new found power through a "slushbox" which may or may not hold what you get.. (manual being ideal)THEN the unknowns of the AWD drivetrain, which are usually beefy enough, but, hard telling, there just isn't enough backing, to know.. Buy a Subie...

If you really want the awd vibe to go FI, just go SC. Then maybe build up the tranny some and keep it stock SC'd. Otherwise go like bluecrush is now and tune up the NA engine. Ive ridden in a SC vibe and it was nothing to write home about. I mean its faster yes, but its still only a 1.8l engine. Once you ride in something with some balls...you'll know what I'm talking about.

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »Ive ridden in a SC vibe and it was nothing to write home about.No offence,but you rode in the wrong s/c Vibe.

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »If you really want the awd vibe to go FI, just go SC. Then maybe build up the tranny some and keep it stock SC'd. Otherwise go like bluecrush is now and tune up the NA engine.The problem with supercharge is I don't find it as efficient as the turbo.Second: they are hard to find.Maybe 250 HP is too much, do you know how much it would be possible with CAI, torque converter, piggyback, new cat/muffler, oil cooler, tranny cooler?

The torque converter is a waste with your stock engine.Maybe rebuilt your engine for the power you're looking for.But all this gets expensive for what you get,don't expect huge gains with the stuff you mentioned.But it will make the ride more enjoyable.Good tuning is the key with a piggyback.

Quote, originally posted by kevera »No offence,but you rode in the wrong s/c Vibe.a SC 1zz, that adam from WI had is what I rode in. idk maybe riding in my car and other FI's make the vibe feel slow....but they were all much faster than the vibe. For what it is though, its quick. Im not trying to offend anyone, but if you go get a ride in a ms3, ms6, cobalt turbo or sc, evo, sti, wrx, they all feel loads faster. The sc for the 1zz is just so conservative and theres no heat exchanger for it so that doesnt help either.

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »a SC 1zz, that adam from WI had is what I rode in. idk maybe riding in my car and other FI's make the vibe feel slow....but they were all much faster than the vibe. For what it is though, its quick. Im not trying to offend anyone, but if you go get a ride in a ms3, ms6, cobalt turbo or sc, evo, sti, wrx, they all feel loads faster. The sc for the 1zz is just so conservative and theres no heat exchanger for it so that doesnt help either.No offence taken bro.Just Adam's Vibe isn't the best comparison,with all the problems he's had.And it's in bone stock form.I have a big block Chevelle,so I know power.The Vibe is still more fun to drive though.

Quote, originally posted by magickarle »do you know how much it would be possible with CAI, torque converter, piggyback, new cat/muffler, oil cooler, tranny cooler?CAI = 5-8hpTorque Converter = 0 hpPiggyback = 5-10hpNew Cat = 0 HPMuffler = 0-2 hpOil Cooler = 0 HPTranny Cooler = 0 HP 10-20hp = Approx. Total Gained

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »Im not trying to offend anyone, but if you go get a ride in a ms3, ms6, cobalt turbo or sc, evo, sti, wrx, they all feel loads faster.Duh! That's because they are!

Sorry, I didn't explain myself correctly: I meant: What is the maximum HP attainable with all those mods (plus a turbo).I though going 250 but since the AWD/tranny wouldn't support it, what would the the max HP/torque and PSI setting.

Quote, originally posted by magickarle »Sorry, I didn't explain myself correctly: I meant: What is the maximum HP attainable with all those mods (plus a turbo).I though going 250 but since the AWD/tranny wouldn't support it, what would the the max HP/torque and PSI setting.The thing is no one has gone that high on an AWD so no one knows. Like I stated earlier, the highest I have seen on an AWD is 160-170hp with an S/C. None of them had tranny issues as far as I know. It was all tuning issues with 2 of them and the third just ran the S/C in stock form. Don't know of anyone who has Turbo'd or Nitrous'd an AWD. If you have the money and want to be the guinea pig to test the limit of the AWD system...go for it!!! I thought I read somewhere a long time ago that the Vibe's AWD system came from Porsche...lol...I highly doubt that though.Edit: With that said there have been a few non-awd 1zz's that had tranny issues with the S/C only producing 160-170hp. So, there is a possibility if tranny problems with the AWD even with the S/C at the same HP.

It's just that the auto tranny in the Vibe/matrix is the weak link.It was make for economy,not power.It's a gamble,just be ready for the expense if you go that route.

I understand. I would need a contact within Totota's engineer team to give me some specs on the AWD system before going SC or turbo. I've studied in mechanical engineering so I got basic knowledge on how to calculate the maximum torque a shaft can handle (depending on the steel used, length of shaft, diameter...). Do we have a Toyota engineering on this forum loll?

There is a break-down of the system in the manual.

Quote, originally posted by magickarle »I understand. I would need a contact within Totota's engineer team to give me some specs on the AWD system before going SC or turbo. Ummmm......yeah. Good luck with that.....

Quote, originally posted by magickarle »How can we be sure the AWD can't handle the power? Nobody tried it yet (I don't want to be the first one to blow the AWD tho loll!) but I don't have any specs/model no. I would have to find model no of differentials, drive shaft, transfer case ...) and compare to torque/rpm the turbo would develop.yes they have and both failed, of the 2 that I know of.do a search for GREENFIRE. he had the first AWD S/C trix on here and his lasted about a year, maybe even 2 at most. and that's with the s/c, not even powerful.

we rode in Devlop's turbo's Vibe 1zz and it was fun. not even close to as fast as our turbo'd subies, but for the vibe, still quick/fast. however, that wasn't an AWD system. the more we had looked into it, the AWD vibe/trix wasn't the vehicle to F/I. not only does the system make it difficult to support any REAL power, the gearing just sucked! if you want to try it, go for it, but when the tranny and/or engine can't handle any real power and blows, look back here where we all said we told you so. Your money and your car, so do what you will with it. *edit* also, on the Greddy emanage system, don't know how this will affect them or not, but Greddy just filed Bankruptcy:http://www.autoblog.com/2008/0...uptcy/

Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »yes they have and both failed, of the 2 that I know of.do a search for GREENFIRE. he had the first AWD S/C trix on here and his lasted about a year, maybe even 2 at most. and that's with the s/c, not even powerful. Didn't Greenfire blow his engine by running lean? His AWD system was fine, I thought.

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush »Didn't Greenfire blow his engine by running lean? His AWD system was fine, I thought.Yep.Still a tough call to make,s/c might work OK,but going turbo is askin for trouble.I wouldn't even attempt turbo on an Auto let alone AWD.I like to blow money,but not foolishly.

Quote, originally posted by kevera »Yep.Still a tough call to make,s/c might work OK,but going turbo is askin for trouble.I wouldn't even attempt turbo on an Auto let alone AWD.I like to blow money,but not foolishly.I can't remember, but i know the car blew. Regardless, spending that kinda money on the AWD to get only so-so performance doesn't seem worthwhile. I gotta agree with you on that one, Kev.

I would still like to try nitrous someday.........

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush »I would still like to try nitrous someday......... Hmmmm..........Is that your little secret mod?????

Quote, originally posted by kevera »Hmmmm..........Is that your little secret mod????? Actually, no it is not. I'm still waiting for it to arrive.

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush »I would still like to try nitrous someday......... dittoand i will if T&Auto can get the 2zz intake manny mounted to a 1zz block

Money doesn't grow on tree so I won't be dumb and do something that doesn't make sence.I might have to forget installaing a turbo on this car (but I'll still dream about it loll!)Thank you guys for taking the time of writing your thoughts.This forum is surely a lot of information to digest!

Okay, lets compare crunch some numbers Vibe AWD vs. Volvo T5 AWD vs. WRX Wagonhttp://autos.msn.com/research/...99068It all depends on what your goals are. If you're looking for 250hp as you stated above, get a WRX, install an aftermarket Uppipe, and http://www.Cobbtuning.com Accessport stage 1. Little more luxury? Get the Volvo, they've got performance mods too, and that I5 Turbo engine/six speed is sexy. Keep the Vibe, invest a lot of time/money in to a car that likely won't hold the power levels you're looking for. If you do reach these goals, don't forget you'll need to upgrade a few other things like brakes and suspension.

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush »I would still like to try nitrous someday......... ya, i'm just not a fan of the bottle. I prefer to get my kicks when I want vs only in short spurts. and though some may say, you live life one 1320 at a time, I can probably bet I've got more times down the strip than most people... probably well over 200 times between all vehicles in the last 3 yrs (possibly more). I'm sure, it would be fun once or twice, but as I said, I kinda like having that kinda power available at any time. and magickarle, I'm sure if you REALLY WANTED to turbo your awd Vibe, you could, but at a very large expense. anything is possible with enough time and money.

Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »and magickarle, I'm sure if you REALLY WANTED to turbo your awd Vibe, you could, but at a very large expense. anything is possible with enough time and money. I really wanted a turbo on an AWD (had an eye on the S40 T5 but seems the cargo area was too small) and didn't want to spend the xtra money on a new Subaru hatchback so We took (well, the girlfriend twisted an arm of mine for the vibe loll) the AWD vibe. It's surly a fun car to drive, easy to park (I'm still over compensating the car thinking it's an suv loll. 2 foot away from the sidewalk hunny )Looking backward: The 04 vibe fully equipped (tinted glass, auto, AWD, plastic skirt, roof rack, 8 set of tires (winter/summer), alarm 85 000km on the odo cost me 11 500$ (sweet deal in my book!). A S40 T5 AWD with 120 000km to odo would have cost me 13 500$. For 2 000$ difference (in Vibe mods), I'm, far away from reaching the performance of the S40 T5.So in the mean while, I'll have fun driving it, installing a new lightweight pulley and even maybe a piggyback.

Quote, originally posted by Jeremy96gase »Okay, lets compare crunch some numbers Vibe AWD vs. Volvo T5 AWD vs. WRX Wagonhttp://autos.msn.com/research/...99068.Seems the cargo volume are wrong:Impreza: all seats in place (cu ft): 19.0Volvo S40 T5: 12.6 cu. ftVibe: seats in place (cu ft): 24.6

Quote, originally posted by magickarle »I really wanted a turbo on an AWD (had an eye on the S40 T5 but seems the cargo area was too small) and didn't want to spend the xtra money on a new Subaru hatchback so We took (well, the girlfriend twisted an arm of mine for the vibe loll) the AWD vibe. It's surly a fun car to drive, easy to park (I'm still over compensating the car thinking it's an suv loll. 2 foot away from the sidewalk hunny )Looking backward: The 04 vibe fully equipped (tinted glass, auto, AWD, plastic skirt, roof rack, 8 set of tires (winter/summer), alarm 85 000km on the odo cost me 11 500$ (sweet deal in my book!). A S40 T5 AWD with 120 000km to odo would have cost me 13 500$. For 2 000$ difference (in Vibe mods), I'm, far away from reaching the performance of the S40 T5.So in the mean while, I'll have fun driving it, installing a new lightweight pulley and even maybe a piggyback.well, think of it this way, your AWD Vibe gets a lot better fuel economy than any WRX, S40 or other AWD with a turbo. Trust me.... I know. If you just want a little more performance to help suffice your needs for a little better performance here's what you really need:1. SUSPENSION, TIRES, BRAKES: even fast cars feel sloppy with crappy suspension! Get yourself some sway bars (cheap too), springs and upgrade to better brake pads and tires.2. you have an intake already, time to look at the exhaust. You may have to go custom since the AWD Vibe has some wierd piping.3. LW crank pulley is cheap and does well on autos. no power increase, but you will feel a better acceleration response and since it's lighter weight, well, it helps. I had one on the LGT and now it's on the STI (did I mention they're cheap?)4. You may want to consider headers or porting/polishing your stock headers for better airflow. better airflow = more power (and kinda sounds cool).5. ONCE you've done the intake and exhaust, maybe time to consider some engine management. I had a Unichip (first on my 03 VGT and then it went to our 04 base Vibe when I got rid of the VGT). The downside with the unichip is you have to send it in for reprogramming anytime you add to the car. this sucks! I understand the Emanage system works much better and easier to change if you need to make changes, however it's also pretty spendy. I'm a firm believer in engine management and what it can do for any car. just remember, if you really wanted to turbo that AWD vibe of yours, it's not as easy as slapping on a turbo and the piping. you need to upgrade your fuel, injectors, upgrade your tranny with a minimum of the Valvebody and probably the TC, then comes the ECM and tuning of the car! it's not cheap!!!! and it's not easy because something always goes wrong and you end up spending more money because of it. From someone who modded an AWD AUTO to another, start saving up that money for a new tranny when the car goes boom or to help pay for parts of the tranny to get fixed. I put about $10K into my LGT and it CAME with a turbo! I didn't even upgrade the fuel or injectors!!! it adds up quickly, especially when it comes to tranny parts.

Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »1. SUSPENSION, TIRES, BRAKES: even fast cars feel sloppy with crappy suspension! Get yourself some sway bars (cheap too), springs and upgrade to better brake pads and tires.2. you have an intake already, time to look at the exhaust. You may have to go custom since the AWD Vibe has some wierd piping.3. LW crank pulley is cheap and does well on autos. no power increase, but you will feel a better acceleration response and since it's lighter weight, well, it helps. I had one on the LGT and now it's on the STI (did I mention they're cheap?)4. You may want to consider headers or porting/polishing your stock headers for better airflow. better airflow = more power (and kinda sounds cool).5. ONCE you've done the intake and exhaust, maybe time to consider some engine management. I had a Unichip (first on my 03 VGT and then it went to our 04 base Vibe when I got rid of the VGT). The downside with the unichip is you have to send it in for reprogramming anytime you add to the car. this sucks! I understand the Emanage system works much better and easier to change if you need to make changes, however it's also pretty spendy. I'm a firm believer in engine management and what it can do for any car. While Hope knows a lot about the Vibe GT (she had), the Vibe base (her husband had) and Subarus (of course) there are many things she does not know about the Vibe AWD. Some of the things she lists are common items for all cars for better performance, like tires, brakes,etc... The Vibe AWD is different from the Vibe GT and the Vibe Base. 1) The only suspension item available for the AWD is lowering springs from Canuck Motorsports. Keithvibe was the first AWD to put them on. I am installing a set on my AWD Vibe this weekend. There are no sway bars made that fit the AWD Vibe. You can install a Strut Tower Bar to help a little bit, but they do not make a big difference on the AWD. I won't even get into the Hotchkis Springs since they are discontinued and rode like crap after a year.2) There is no Cat-back or Axel-back exhaust made for our cars. It WILL need to be custom all the way. Mine is 2-1/4" custom exhaust from the downpipe-back with a Magnaflow High Flow Cat, Flowmaster Hushpower II Muffler and a Walker Profit Muffler (yes 2 mufflers - the first one acts as a resonator/muffler). A custom Catback system can run you $350-500.3) We have already gone over the Alutec Lightweight Crank pulley in another thread, so there is nothing more to say there.4) There are no headers made for the AWD (the Vibe base header will not fit, so don't ask). The only thing you can do to our headers is to remove the precat that is built into it and , like Hope mentioned, get the header ported for increased flow. A Custom header would run you $500+.5) For piggybacks I would look into the Camcon (ease of use) or Unichip (ease of use and installation) first, then the Emanage Blue. We also discussed these a bit in another thread.Also see the Poor Man's Mods thread: http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=24144

wow. not even sway bars for the AWD??? and we all complained about lack of anything for the GT and base models!