Well, they're gas savers. But, would you buy one?

[TJinPgh]

I came across a couple of vehicles that both get pretty good/excellent fuel economy. Both either are, or will be available here in the U.S. shortly. But, would anybody here actually buy either one of them?Both of these vehicles are classified by the Dept. of Transportation as "motorcycles." Though, I doubt anybody would actually consider either one of them one.=============================================Thoroughbred Motorsports StallionSpecs:$29,995.Available now.5 SPEED AUTO TRANS (including Reverse)CRUISE CONTROLA/C AND HEATTRAILER HITCHAM/FM/CD RADIODRIVERS BACK RESTAIR RIDE SUSPENSION9.5 GAL FUEL 18 INCH BILLIT RIMS2.3l 4cyl FORD ENGINE 155 hp160 ft/lb torquePower to weight ratio of a Mustang GT 7 Cubic feet of trunk space6 COLORSMPG35 city45 hwy==============================================Accelerated Composites ApteraSpecs:All Electric Model $26.500Plug-in Hybrid $29,900Planned availability is 2008 for sale in California ONLY. If it sells, it will be expanded nationally.Top speed is over 85mph. Electronically limited to under 95mph.0-60 time Range of the prototype all electric version appears to be about 120 miles and can be recharged in about 2-4 hours (whether or not that's a full charge, I'm not sure).The gas-electric hybrid version has a range of over 400 miles.Fuel economy of the gas electric version is a tad confusing.I'll simply cut and paste what it said on the website about fuel economy.Quote »With the Plug-in Electric Hybrid version of the Aptera(typ-1h) the mileage of the vehicle is difficult to describe with one number. For example, the Typ-1h can drive 40 to 60 miles on electric power alone. Perhaps for such a trip, the engine may only be duty-cycled for a few seconds or minutes. This would produce a fantastic number, an incredible number that, though factually true, would have no useful context, i.e. it's just a point on a graph.An asymptotic decaying exponential is an accurate way to describe the fuel mileage of the Typ-1h. For example driving say, 50 miles, one might calculate a MPG number that's 2 or 3 times higher, say, 1000 MPG. As battery energy is depleted, the frequency of the engine duty cycle is increased. More fuel is used. at 75 miles, the MPG might be closer to 400 MPG. Again, we're using battery energy mostly, but turning the engine on more and more. Just over 100 miles we're just over 300 MPG, and just beyond 120 miles, we're around 300 MPG.So why pick a number at 120 miles? Well, it's more than double of most available plug-in hybrid ranges that achieve over 100 MPG. It's three times the distance of the typical American daily commute. It's a meaningful distance that represents the driving needs of 99% of Americans on a daily basis. Sure, it's asymptotic, after 350-400 miles it eventually plummets to around 130 MPG at highway speeds where it will stay all day until you plug it back in and charge it up. So, basically, it will never get LESS than 130 mpg at highway speeds. How much better it gets than that simply depends on how far you drive between charges.Seats 3 (2 in front, 1 in back)Rear seat removable to create enough storage (hatchback) for 15 bags of groceries.It will only be available in WHITE initially.Standard features are still being determined. But, it will have basic automobile type features, such as a stereo, a GPS, cup holders, 12v outlets, etc.It will have windows that roll down (not sure if that's crank or power).Naturally, ANYTHING you do that requires electricity (radio, etc) would reduce the distance you could drive on battery only.==============================================General thoughts.Both "bikes" are fairly pricey. But then, they're no more than a lot of Harley's that are out on the street, and not that much more than some of the hybrid cars that are available.Both are designed for war weather usage (though, cold weather testing in the Aptera is planned).The Stallion has no roof available at this time, so it's a dry weather vehicle.According to the Aptera folks, California doesn't require a motorcycle license for 3-wheeled vehicles. That would, no doubt, vary state by state.The Design of these vehicles is certainly unique and definitely love it or hate it territory.With the Aptera, however, the design is very much an integral part of it's efficiency. Extremely light weight. Ultra low resistance.These are both definitely niche type vehicles, and whether or not anybody would buy either one is anybody's guess.Ultimately, it's going to be up to these independent designers to create the fuel efficient vehicles of the future, because, clearly, the big manufacturers have no desire to do it.

[Raven]

I'd rather have a T-Rex. 0-60 mph in 4.1 sec. lateral over 1g. Made in Quebec Canada too Eh!http://www.go-t-rex.com/high_r...en-ca

[Raivis]

the first one i would think about if i was in the market for something new. the second one heck NO!!! that thing is uglier the pile of crap my dog left .

[prathman]

I'd prefer a regular motorcycle or decent scooter to either of them - and for much less money.

[WaveAction]

the first one looks cool..then i read it had a ford engine..lol !!second one just doesnt appeal to me at all except for the interior

[coldmm803]

haha the first one has more hp than the gen1 base vibes

[KNINE]

I like the first one, but waaay too expensive.

[wyatt89]

+1 on the t-rex, watch the top gear episode where they tested that, it was pretty cool

[ajflan]

These things are disgusting.

[ramenboy...]

+2 on the t-rex/ badass

[TJinPgh]

Quote, originally posted by ramenboy... »+2 on the t-rex/ badassThe T-Rex is hot, no doubt.But, methinks you guys are missing the "gas saver" part of the thread. I doubt the T-Rex gets much above 35 mpg and isn't exactly designed for highway driving.It also costs $50k.

[sloth]

I'll agree the top one looks nicer. But all things considered. I'd go with the second one. With the enclosed cab I don't believe you'll be required to wear a helmet, plus your protected from the rain.

[kunkstyle]

Quote, originally posted by sloth »With the enclosed cab I don't believe you'll be required to wear a helmet, plus your protected from the rain.And snow... That first one wouldn't be much of a daily driver in Canada. Well, maybe in Vancouver.

[TJinPgh]

Quote, originally posted by kunkstyle »And snow... That first one wouldn't be much of a daily driver in Canada. Well, maybe in Vancouver.Just to toss this out, I couldn't find anywhere on the Aptera's website that indicated whether or not it had any environmental controls. So, I'm not sure if the current version has heat or not.It does have a windshield and wipers, however. So, at a minimum, it would make a decent commuter for most places 3 seasons a year.Ultimately, I posted these as an experiment to find out how many people would look past the looks and buy something simply because it offered phenomenal gas mileage.The Stallion is cool looking, IMHO. It's no doubt fast and still remains more fuel efficient than most cars on the market. It could be even better, I think, if they were able to use a diesel engine, or perhaps try to lighten it up a bit and go with an actual motorcycle engine.The Aptera... what can you say about it. It's certainly unique. Maybe too unique for today's buyers. I'm not sure if it will ever make it out of California since even they may not be able to bring themselves to buy them. I was aware, before I posted these, of other three wheeled vehicles, such as the T-Rex and the Spyder. It's interesting that some saw the price as a deterrant even though the alternatives cost significantly more.The Aptera does sort of prove that Detroit is only part of the problem as to why we don't have more fuel efficient vehicles. The Aptera relies on aerodynamics and weight to achieve it's phenomenal fuel efficiency. And, it would be very difficult to accomplish that in a package that looks like your current daily driver.Somewhere along the line, we are going to have to think outside the box in what we expect a car to look like in order for others to be able to think outside the box and create what we actually need.

[Digger]

I saw the Aptera on the news last night. I like the first one but would buy a bike before a trike.

[kunkstyle]

Quote, originally posted by TJinPgh »Ultimately, I posted these as an experiment to find out how many people would look past the looks and buy something simply because it offered phenomenal gas mileage.If I could do that I would have bought a SmartCar instead of a Vibe. Great gas mileage is only part of the picture in buying a vehicle. As much as I enjoy cars as well as driving, practicallity is still an issue. If I can't carry anything in it (ie skis, luggage, more than one other person...), and it's got zero amnenities (ie. heat, a trunk, engine that's big enough to keep up with traffic) I see no reason I'd buy one. Do I enjoy paying top dollar for gas and being part of the emissions problem? No. Do I need something that can carry myself and 3 others to work on a regular basis? Yes. Can't imagine buying a car just for one sole feature, weather it be mileage, looks, top speed, cargo space, leg room or any other feature. It's a blend of everything.

[TJinPgh]

Quote, originally posted by kunkstyle »As much as I enjoy cars as well as driving, practicallity is still an issue. If I can't carry anything in it (ie skis, luggage, more than one other person...), and it's got zero amnenities (ie. heat, a trunk, engine that's big enough to keep up with traffic) I see no reason I'd buy one. Do I enjoy paying top dollar for gas and being part of the emissions problem? No. Do I need something that can carry myself and 3 others to work on a regular basis? Yes. Your point about practicality is understood. Which is why I'm not sure that either the Stallion or the T-Rex would ever qualify as a daily driver.On the other hand, the Aptera seats three (which, is two more than 90% of the people out there have in their car during their daily commutes).With the rear seat removed, it has enough storage space to hold two full size surf boards, a couple of lawn chairs and a few wave boards at the same time and still seat two people. I'm pretty sure that would hold your skiis.Heat is definitely an issue (although it's a safe bet that it will be addressed before it goes national if it's not before it goes to production). But, the engine is not. It has a top speed of over 90 mph and a 0-60 time of Nobody... and let me repeat that... NOBODY... needs anything faster than that as a daily driver.I'm not criticizing or arguing your general point. Just saying that despite it's looks, the Aptera is a pretty versatile vehicle. And, again, that we need to think outside the box a bit.

[kunkstyle]

Quote, originally posted by TJinPgh »With the rear seat removed, it has enough storage space to hold two full size surf boards, a couple of lawn chairs and a few wave boards at the same time and still seat two people. I'm pretty sure that would hold your skiis.I'm impressed. It didn't look that large in the back.

[TJinPgh]

Here is the website's official claim...Quote »The Aptera has "two plus one" seating allowing plenty of room for driver and passenger while an infant seat (newborn to age three) can be located in the middle behind the front seating. There is enough storage space to fit 15 bags of groceries, two full-size golf club bags or even a couple of seven foot surf boards. There are other pics on Aptera's website but they're posted as a flash player and I'm not sure how to post them here from that. But, you can check it out at http://www.aptera.com.The reason I gave the specific example that I did (2 surf boards, 2 wave boards and a couple of lawn chairs) is that there's a pic on their site of fitting all of that stuff (plus 2 life jackets) in the back, with a little bit of room to spare.Again, I'm not debating that the car isn't for everybody. And, some things would need to be added to make it acceptable for people through out a large portion of the country.But, I think the companies that are coming out with these alternative vehicles are to be commended for their creativity and ingenuity.They are clearly way ahead of anything the major corporations are doing, and are likely to be doing any time soon.EDIT:I was just watching a video on the Aptera on youtube that was put out by Popular Mechanics and the creator of the car. It DOES have A/C and heat.That video is available http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p2Ke1VWhZJA

[TJinPgh]

On the other hand, for those who just can't seem to justify the cost of either of these vehicles, there's always this.Volkswagen GX3Status:Prototype (2006)Cost: Estimated @ $17,000Powered by a VW 1.8l engine.6sp Transmission0-100 km/h (62.5 mph) in 5.7 seconds.Fuel economy 46 mpg CITY

[ehoff121]

Quote, originally posted by TJinPgh »An asymptotic decaying exponential is an accurate way to describe the fuel mileage of the Typ-1h.The Typ-1h sounds like a car built by engineers, for engineers with this maketing copy. Here's a graphed example of that type of equation, if you're interested.

[TJinPgh]

Yeah, they had a chart just like that on the website.

[Kamikaze]

For the high cost of these, I'd rather pick up a Prius where I could fit 4 people comfortably, and still pull 50-60mpg.

[Daox]

I think the Aptera is great. Its an amazing car that I'm sure most people would like if they actually gave it a chance (or if it didn't look different). However, I don't base much of my car buying off of looks where as I bet 90% of car buyers would say looks are one of the top reasons they buy a specific car. Fitting a car to its purpose is my number one thing I look at. Does the car fit its needs? As a daily driver, this thing is as good as pure gold. It gives you everything you need in a daily driver for 90% of the population. Sadly, that side of it will never get through to the people who don't give it a chance.So, would I buy one? The answer is yes, if I had the money (the only downside of the vehicle).

[TJinPgh]

Quote, originally posted by Kamikaze »For the high cost of these, I'd rather pick up a Prius where I could fit 4 people comfortably, and still pull 50-60mpg.Just for the sake of saying it. Under the new EPA testing, the Prius took a MAJOR hit in fuel economy. It now is rated at nowhere near the 60 mpg they originally claimed.Now, it tops out around 48 in the city. 45 on the hwy. Which, only puts it slightly ahead of the Stallion, a little behind the GX3 (hwy) and WAY behind the Aptera.