GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Quote, originally posted by Wards® Special Email via GM Inside News »GM Speeds ’09 Vibe to Meet Matrix TimetableBy James M. Amend - WardsAutoGeneral Motors Corp. will accelerate production of its redesigned ’09 Pontiac Vibe by at least two months, a move meant to satisfy an advanced timetable for the ’09 Toyota Matrix and growing consumer demand for choices in the upper-small car segment.The 6-year-old Vibe and Matrix share a common platform. The Vibe is built at New United Motor Mfg. Inc., a Fremont, CA-based facility operated jointly by GM and Toyota Motor Corp. The Matrix is produced at Toyota’s Cambridge, ON, Canada, plant.Toyota wants to update the Matrix because it has attracted families, rather than younger buyers the auto maker originally sought.“The styling does not have the sense of motion about it,” says Mike O’Brien, head of product planning for Toyota Motor Co. USA, during a recent industry event in Michigan. “It’s a bit boxy. And it just does not have the appeal to young people that we had hoped for.”In speeding the Matrix redo, production of the ’09 Vibe now will begin in first-quarter 2008, ahead of a typical NUMMI production turnover in mid-second quarter.“They are sister vehicles, so the timing that would affect one vehicle would affect the other,” a GM spokesman tells Ward’s.In GM’s case, the earlier the redesigned hatchback arrives the better. More fresh choices in its fuel-sipping small-car portfolio could help diversify its mix.Vincent Brown, a sales associate at Inland Valley Pontiac-GMC-Buick in San Bernardino, CA, likes the idea of a new Vibe arriving early but also hopes the redesign distances the Pontiac model from the Matrix.“The Vibe and Matrix look way too similar,” he says.While the current Vibe achieves a thrifty 33 mpg (7 L/100 km) on the highway, its model range also has shrunk to just a single variant after GM discontinued all-wheel-drive and GT variants with the ’07 edition.GM says those models likely will return with the redesign, although given the Vibe’s fuel efficiency, plans do not include a hybrid.Source: http://www.gminsidenews.com/fo...54689

good. they should. and offer a 5MT in the AWD version.

NO!!!!!!!! Not a 5MT.......a 6MT and a 5AT.

SWEET! I may have to get me a new GT when they come out I can't wait to see the actual production vehicle (not just the covered-spy-shots)

The new 2008 Chrysler T&C LX for a MSRP of $23,190 has as standard equipment (1) supplemental side curtain air bags in all rows; (2) Anti-lock brakes; (3) Electronic Stability Program; (4) Tire pressure monitor and warning signal. The pricing is no more - actually probably less - than the 2007 that had these safety features as expensive extra charge options.Items 1,2 & 3 add $1,765 to the 2008 Vibe. I would not be surprised to see all of these standard on the 2009 Vibe. They certainly couldn't raise the price much - it is already unfavorably priced compared to several alternatives. I think the Honda CRV has all of these safety options standard also.

I'll have to start saving for a 2010 vibe GT. and give my vibe to my wife. I hope they re-continue the AWD and the GT.

I don't see why they wouldn't re-do the AWD & GT due to the fact that every other hatch on the market has some sort of turbo-4 under the hood as an option maybe they'll do a AWD GT

if any GM guru's are reading this a AWD GT with 6 MT would be superb!!!!!

I'll be ready for a new one in 09, how about a 6MT or 5AT GT AWD?

I'm guessing it will get the xB powerplant. Maybe the Toyota 265HP V6 will be an option.

I don't know why you're "guessing".. this was all discussed not long ago and came out as the new 1.8l dual VVT-i Corolla engine.And yeah, the present Vibe is overpriced; idiotically so. I priced it out against an LX Element, and if I add the ABS and side curtain air bags to the '08, I come up with the same price as the Honda.The Vibe has $500 rebate, the Honda 2.9% for 36 month. Same thing.I don't know what the General is smoking, but I don't want any of it. GM has good engineers, but has to be one of the most mismanaged companies on the planet... among those still around, anyway.-Mathias

The engine you just said is speculation. Nothing is set in stone at all for the vehicle. Things could easily change. As for price, the Vibe is quite a bit cheaper than the Matrix for similar features. And we all know that GM is mismanaged and doesn't know what they're doing. Have anything new to add?

If only Mathias and Petrucci914 knew the complexities of running a large, global manufacturing organization that has many different regulations to meet while satisfying shareholder value.If GM is selling Vibes at the current price and is meeting the corporate objectives/goals, why alter to make a couple of webMBA's happy?

Hey, I understand what it takes. There are several things GM could easily do to become more profitable, they just aren't doing it. You don't have to have an MBA to notice that.

Quote, originally posted by michaelgt »If only Mathias and Petrucci914 knew the complexities of running a large, global manufacturing organization that has many different regulations to meet while satisfying shareholder value.If GM is selling Vibes at the current price and is meeting the corporate objectives/goals, why alter to make a couple of webMBA's happy?For what the senior management at GM gets paid shareholders should expect them to be up to the task of running a large, global manufacturing organization that has many different regulations to meet while satisfying shareholder value.GM is selling what - about half the number of Vibes currently than in the past? Perhaps that is typical late in the product design cycle and the 2009 model year sales will rebound. The demise of the GT and AWD may have caused some of that decline. On the other hand, one would expect some offsetting positive boost given $3 gasoline.

Quote, originally posted by article »Vincent Brown, a sales associate at Inland Valley Pontiac-GMC-Buick in San Bernardino, CA, likes the idea of a new Vibe arriving early but also hopes the redesign distances the Pontiac model from the Matrix.“The Vibe and Matrix look way too similar,” he says.You think they look similar now! Those darned spy shots did nothing to encourage me that the similarities would be minimalized. If anything, those images showed eerie similarities to the Caliber. Not a good thing.

The Vibe was never got much advertising. Sales may be down form a few years ago, but GM probably makes more money on other models, that is why those get pushed, the Vibe gets dust. That is not likely to change with the 09 model, whenever it comes out. Pontiac will make more money off a G6 or G8 sale than a Vibe sale, and each Vibe sold is sold to someone who might instead buy a G6 or G8, or some other full profit GM product.Maybe the sales will go up a bit from the "refresh" but I wouldn't expect it to be that dramatic or prolonged. Come on GM, prove me wrong.

Quote, originally posted by Petrucci914 »The engine you just said is speculation. Nothing is set in stone at all for the vehicle. Things could easily change. As for price, the Vibe is quite a bit cheaper than the Matrix for similar features. And we all know that GM is mismanaged and doesn't know what they're doing. Have anything new to add?Could you elaborate/document on "As for price, the Vibe is quite a bit cheaper than the Matrix for similar features." A friend recently looked at both and bought a Matrix saying the price was about the same and he thought the resale on the Toyota nameplate would hold up better.I looked at the 2008 pricing onthe XR and aside from a roof rack I could put together something equipped almost like the Vibe for a little less.

Quote, originally posted by joatmon »The Vibe never got much advertising. Sales may be down form a few years ago, but GM probably makes more money on other models, that is why those get pushed, the Vibe gets dust. That is not likely to change with the 09 model, whenever it comes out. Pontiac will make more money off a G6 or G8 sale than a Vibe sale, and each Vibe sold is sold to someone who might instead buy a G6 or G8, or some other full profit GM product.Maybe the sales will go up a bit from the "refresh" but I wouldn't expect it to be that dramatic or prolonged. Come on GM, prove me wrong. I suspect that a lot of people on GenVibe are like me and advertising is not that much of a factor in the buying decision. I will find it in auto mags at the Library, via an auto show or on the web. But from my experience a lot of people are not very well informed when they spend their $20 grand or more on a vehicle. One would hope that these big companies have evaluated the cost effectiveness of their advertising - but I am skeptical.

By reading this, I assume that this puts to rest--and debunks the rumor that the Matrix is being killed off and replaced by the Blade (Auris, etc.) once and for all?

Yeah, it seemed to me that the way the vibe was priced became noticeably less favorable after the first couple of years. I bought my 2003 GT with 17-inch wheels and ABS at the tail end of Dec 2002. I got the dealer down to ~ $16900. Then there was a fairly large GM rebate in place of not needing 0% financing ($2000 rebate, I think, but don't remember exactly). A few years later, I looked at carsdirect and there was no way an equivalent new one could be had at anywhere near that price. If GT sales really were tanking, then the price had to be a big factor. It was a deal at the price I paid, but I'm not sure $22000 made a lot of sense.

Actually, the stickers prices have not increased much since 20032003 base 16,365; Dest 550; AT 815; Pwr Pkg 625 Net; Monotone 325, total 18,6902008 base 16,760; Dest 585; AT 850; Pwr Pkg 850; Monotone 325; Total 19,370.But the dealer mark-up has shrunk by a few hundred so the dealer discounts are less, and the rebates have also shrunk. In Jan 2003 I got the $2,000 rebate AND GM had a promo in Jan 03 that increased my $550 GM Card bonus balance to $2,003, AND I got a dealer discount of $1,050. The doc fee was $50. Today they are charging $250 - what a rip off. In 2003 my net was $13,700 plus sales tax. Today it would be about $17,700 plus sales tax less any GM Card bonus money - mine s currently at $1,250.

Quote, originally posted by Petrucci914 »Hey, I understand what it takes. There are several things GM could easily do to become more profitable, they just aren't doing it. You don't have to have an MBA to notice that.If you completely understand the automobile manufacturing environment, and can implement these profitable actions, why have you not been hired by any of the Detroit 3 to lead them in these actions. I am guessing that you could make tons of money consulting to them!Which global manufacturing companies have you led? Where did you get your knowledge on global vehicle standards, manufacturing methods, project management, finance, etc.?

You like to talk smart, don't you? As an adult who has a business degree, I think I know how to observe and critique one's business model. Do I know the specifics? No. Do I need to? No. Their mismanagement and shotty decisions are apparent to all.

YEA!!!!! The AWD makes a come back!!!!hopefully soon!! Then if something bad should happen to my current vibe i can still get another one with AWD!

Quote, originally posted by Petrucci914 »You like to talk smart, don't you? As an adult who has a business degree, I think I know how to observe and critique one's business model. Do I know the specifics? No. Do I need to? No. Their mismanagement and shotty decisions are apparent to all.I am just asking questions on your automotive knowledge. Without the details of the business model, I question the ability to critique and identify shotty decisions.

Is the GT getting an auto with tip-tronic? I thought i read it somewhere... Im excited.

Quote, originally posted by michaelgt »If you completely understand the automobile manufacturing environment, and can implement these profitable actions, why have you not been hired by any of the Detroit 3 to lead them in these actions. I am guessing that you could make tons of money consulting to them!Which global manufacturing companies have you led? Where did you get your knowledge on global vehicle standards, manufacturing methods, project management, finance, etc.?Unfortunately more often than not the CEO's are hired on the basis of who they know, how they dress, where they went to school, where they worked last, etc., not on what they know. And when guys at the top screw up they still get paid well, and if they screw up real bad and get let go they collect a multi-million dollar severance package. I have mingled and worked with my share of top corporate brass (not in the auto area) in my nearly 40 years of work experience. The number of duds certainly exceeded the number of stars. Too bad there isn't a Steve Jobs (Apple) or a James Sinegal (Costco) of the auto industry.

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »Actually, the stickers prices have not increased much since 20032003 base 16,365; Dest 550; AT 815; Pwr Pkg 625 Net; Monotone 325, total 18,6902008 base 16,760; Dest 585; AT 850; Pwr Pkg 850; Monotone 325; Total 19,370.But the dealer mark-up has shrunk by a few hundred so the dealer discounts are less, and the rebates have also shrunk. In Jan 2003 I got the $2,000 rebate AND GM had a promo in Jan 03 that increased my $550 GM Card bonus balance to $2,003[..[ Great analysis, thank you.I'm in the same boat... if the General sends me another "top off" letter for my GM card rebate, I'll buy. If not, I'll either get a cheapo Taurus from the State of Michigan fleet, or I'll go new and buy a Honda or Toyota.I'd prefer to be driving a domestic. But when I look at the list of charities I like to support, strangely enough, Pontiac isn't on it.For "michaelgt": Your thinking, to me, exemplifies GM's attitude. "We're global and big, therefore we must be doing the smart thing." In fact, GM has driven their US market share from well over 60% in its heyday to about 20 or 22% today -- all the while patting themselves on the back.A business model that relies on selling cars to the hapless and uninformed will find itself running out of customers sooner or later. And that's not to say all their products are bad. They do build a good truck. I'm currently driving my eighth or ninth GM vehicle, three of which I bought new. I'm not hostile to them. But I'm not blind either.-Mathias

Quote, originally posted by Mathias »I'm in the same boat... if the General sends me another "top off" letter for my GM card rebate, I'll buy. If not, I'll either get a cheapo Taurus from the State of Michigan fleet, or I'll go new and buy a Honda or Toyota.A business model that relies on selling cars to the hapless and uninformed will find itself running out of customers sooner or later. -MathiasAt the risk of getting stoned by some others here - I must say that I really like the Honda CRV for the money, and since I don't drive that many miles the lower mpg is not critical. However, the CRV is one of the hottest cars on the lot today so it is hard to find one modestly equipped and there are few deals to be had. Hapless and uniformed buyers are getting scarcer and even though the new Ford & GM products probably are very good some of us have long memories of when we spent good money on their products that were not so good.

For what it's worth - here are some comments from a great investment guru in regard to Chrysler, with inclusions regarding GM & Ford.I think that "Nasty" Nardelli will do a yeoman's job for Cerberus Management, the private equity firm that owns Chrysler. Nardelli wasn't Cerberus' first choice to run Chrysler, but, recognizing that they could be stuck with Chrysler for much longer than anticipated, the "pinstripes" at Cerberus chose "Nasty" because they think his slash-and-burn style will provide more immediate results.Nardelli was CEO at Home Depot between 2000-06. During the building boom he doubled revenues and store count but the stock price stalled, primarily because his offensive leadership style created broad dissension among HD's loyal troops. That was off-putting to institutional investors. Perhaps that's what Chrysler needs: a hard charging, cold-blooded, insensitive son of a biscuit who won't mollycoddle the unions and piffle with the work force.I know Nardelli is not an "auto man" and his previous stint was at General Electric, where his offensive style prevented his appointment as CEO when Jack Welch resigned. But I think Nardelli's mean, hands-on, nuts-and-bolts decisions might be what Chrysler needs to crank a profit.Frankly, I blame the big shots at GM, Ford and Chrysler for the demise of the auto industry. During the glory years of the 1960s and '70s, the Big Three couldn't lose money if they burned it, and burn it they did. Their executives were in such tall cotton that they literally and figuratively gave the unions carte blanche to make work rules and run the company. When the going got rough, the Big Three couldn't regain control of their companies from the unions.Nardelli might not know a camshaft from a crankshaft, but he certainly knows how, when and where to make the right decisions so Chrysler's balance sheet and income statement run soundly. That's just what Chrysler needs. So, when Chrysler begins to earn a profit, "Nasty" will resign and Cerberus can take it public with gusto.

Ok then... Just now, GM announced $1k "bonus cash" on '07 Vibes. All of a sudden, they can be had for $2k behind invoice and that's not a bad deal... -Mathias

The ad in our newspaper did not mention the Vibe.

I am able to get on pontiac.com now - it says the extra $1,000IS good on the Vibe. Guess it just wasn't important enough to include in the fill page ad. Duh!It looks like there are 25 new 2007 vibes left in the area in and around Columbus, and about the same number of 2008's.

michaelgt,webMBA's good one. Quote, originally posted by Mathias » In fact, GM has driven their US market share from well over 60% in its heyday to about 20 or 22% today -- lets see in the HEYDAY as you call it, there was GM, FORD, CHRYSLER. oh VW and BMW and a few less than 1% companys.then came TOYOTA, HONDA, NISSAN, KIA, HYUNDA, GM, FORD, CHRYSLER, VW, BMW...ect. who in their right mind would think that GM could hold on to 60% market share? especially since foreign makers could and did (1970's)flood the american shores with crap vehicles that didn't have the tariffs american vehicles incurred when exported to foreign shores.and who in their right mind would think that a 40% reduction in market share was all the companies fault?

They just need to eliminate a few brands and tell the unions to buzz off.

and who in their right mind would think that a 40% reduction in market share was all the companies fault?Well, who else's fault? If you want to see how it's done, just go and copy Toyota. Hugely successful, and not through any kind of flair. I mean, who "loves" Toyota? Hondas have a certain something, maybe, but Toyota is the impersonation of soulless efficiency. Their success is not 'cuz their cars are pretty, that's for sure.A "40% reduction" from 62% to 22% is almost a THREEFOLD reduction, or -67%, talking round numbers. The "40" is percentage points. It's different down than up, if you take my meaning. IOW, it's a HUGE drop, not four parts in ten.The US auto market has grown steadily since the late 60s. There was plenty of room for growth, but most of it has gone away from domestics. I know lots of true-blue, all-American, do-the-right-thing guys who buy foreign cars, and to a man they were turned off by crappy quality and poor customer service that turned ownership of one car or another into a nightmare. Every time someone defects from Buick to Toyota, what earthly reason are they going to have to come back? Styling?A friend of mine inherited a Saturn LW200, three years old, with 15k miles. He owned it for a year. He now knows what a BCM is... as do all Saturn owners. He had it in the shop three or four times, was treated politely but ineffectively, and i think he actually had to PAY for a part that goes wrong in most of the cars. He wound up selling the car outright to the dealer. Good riddance.His '99 Solara has given exactly -0- trouble in the four years he's had it. What do you think he's gonna buy next?Oh, and it looks like I may get a new '07 Vibe tomorrow. GM in it's wisdom now upped the rebate to $2k, plus I've got $550 in GM Card rebates... plus they have a stick/pwr/airbag/ABS car on the lot in "stealth", so why not...? So yeah, I'll buy their cars if it makes sense, but don't tell me GM is the victim somehow.One of my friends owns (or co-owns) a Buick dealership, and you should have heard him when I suggested maybe GM changes parts suppliers a wee bit too often... it was like opening the flood gates to hear him talk about it. Apparently it's a nightmare for the dealerships to have all the varying parts on hand. When my '83 Datsun needed a clutch master cyl last year, the parts store had it on hand. Because why? Because they all use the same part. There's a message there, I just can't figure it out. Apparently GM can't either.Of course, my '85 Van is a marvel of engineering ;->-Mathias

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I never said GM was a victim. Mathias said,"The US auto market has grown steadily since the late 60s. There was plenty of room for growth, but most of it has gone away from domestics." when you have 3 major car manufacturers and then you add 10 more that sell vehicles (for $1000+ less) to the mix. someones gonna lose market share, and someones gonna gain. basic math. GM is building vehicles the "Toyota Way". read the book it should be in your schools library. GM has been for about 4 years now. and you can tell that by the quality returning to the domestic vehicles.

Quote, originally posted by Petrucci914 »tell the unions to buzz off.thats my job your talking about. and I'm pissed enough to say something but I won't.I won't lower myself to your narrow minded way of thinking. I'm ashamed that a fellow american would wish such a thing on another american.

when you have 3 major car manufacturers and then you add 10 more that sell vehicles (for $1000+ less) to the mix. someones gonna lose market share, and someones gonna gain. basic math.But that does not follow at all... It has nothing to do with basic math. If you add "10 more" companies of the caliber of Yugo, what's the difference? If you add Jaguar and Rolls Royce, GM would hardly be affected.It's companies that offer bread-and-butter vehicles that are reliable as anvils that have been the winners in this.Also, this is exactly the environment in which Toyota has been making a fortune. Mostly with American labor, no less. But without a lot of the union BS, the job banks, the guarantees, the factories that have to be kept running etc.I'm not saying the unions are to blame, but let's say they haven't helped. Most of it is bad management.No I don't know how to run a car company, but that's no problem. I don' have to. GM brass apparently don't know either. Certainly for the money they're getting.Or, if that's too near the knuckle, try Ford. They have screwed up every Euro car they ever brought over. Usually through bad reliability brought on by not having their suppliers under control.The Escort.The Contour.The Focus.These are all considered to be "good cars" with decent reliability or better in Germany. They all had LOUSY reliability in their first few years here... by the time the problems are ironed out, it's too late. The reputation, and with it the resale, and with that the willingness of the consumer to pony up is gone. How is that anybody's fault but management's?My '04 Vibe -- and I'm sure the '07 I looked at today -- has the identical clutch mechanism to my father-in-law's '88 Celica. I don't think those fail. Get a G5 and show me all the parts that are proven performers for two decades. Good luck.-Mathias

I couldn't agree with you more. You and I are on the same wavelength and though process when it comes to this issue.

Well.... I was about ready to pull the trigger today... got a written offer of a monotone/pwr package '07 Vibe for $16,400 OTD. Not bad with only $550 in GM Card rebates.But the car I liked better was equipped, additionally, with side air bags and ABS. OK, that's $1270 sticker $1118 invoice, so add a grand and change and I'm home...?Not so fast, it also has a $130 price increase, plus the tax on options, so all of a sudden I'm looking at $17,800... Can you say Honda Element?Who do these clowns think they are, increasing the base price on a lame-duck design into its sixth year...? But that's kind of what we have been discussing. So I'm selling my van if I can, and if I can't I'll drive it until my card's anniversary date and get it cheaper that way. Geeze. Anybody want an '85 Conversion van, a real time machine with no rust and 116k, for $2k?-Mathias

Quote, originally posted by Mathias »But the car I liked better was equipped, additionally, with side air bags and ABS. OK, that's $1270 sticker $1118 invoice, so add a grand and change and I'm home...?-MathiasWhat do you want to bet that the 2009 Vibe has ABS, Side Air Bags and Stability Control standard with little or no increase in base price. That seems to be the trend. And if it doesn't, I think they're toast.

I suspect that today's GM vehicles are as good or nearly as good as the Asian makes but there are a lot of potential customers that are thinking why take the chance.Some good friends just got a new Chevy Envoy. We went on a short trip togther in our SWB Chrysler T&C Van. They remarked "this is really nice", and I know I paid $5,000 less than they paid for their Envoy. Reading the reviews for the new Honda Accord, I think the GM Sedan line is going to be in trouble.

Quote, originally posted by Petrucci914 »tell the unions to buzz off.+1Quote, originally posted by David Lewandowski, Arlington Heights »Union contracts hurting GMMany people attribute General Motors' problems to producing cars that are not inspiring or a compelling value. Actually, GM has been producing world-class cars that are a solid value and compare favorably to the competition. GM's core problem stems from union contracts that were inked when GM owned almost half of the U.S. market. These contracts provide hourly wages, fringe benefits, medical and retirement benefits that vastly exceed what is fair compensation for a factory worker in today's global market. The average union GM wage is about $30 an hour and benefits add another $65 an hour, for a total of about $95 an hour. There are literally millions of people who are working just as hard in this country in factory and labor jobs who are making far less than half that amount. In addition, when a union GM worker is laid off, they receive 95 percent of their pay for a year or more. On top of all that, they retire with a very nice pension and full medical insurance. We are now in a global competitive market where GM is competing with quality products from Europe and Asia. There are now over 45 different car lines competing for the consumer's dollar in the United States. Just as Wendy's and Burger King cut into McDonald's huge share of the market, these 45 car companies are now cutting into GM's and Ford's share of the U.S. market. And it works both ways. Just as they are cutting into our U.S. market, GM is cutting into foreign markets and has been quite successful in China and India. To successfully compete in the U.S. market, GM's union labor costs must be at the same competitive level of their competition. Just as nobody would expect GM to survive in business if they paid twice as much as their competitors for steel and other raw materials, nobody should expect them to survive when they are paying twice as much for their factory labor costs. Before further erosion occurs at a great company, I hope that union workers get a wake-up call to the realities of the global marketplace.

The only truly good jobs left for the average Joe/Jane are with the government - federal, state, county, & city. Decent wages, excellent benefits including inflation adjusted retirement and medical. And we taxpayers will be footing that bill until long after I am dead and gone. A lot of us in the private sector saw our promised pensions and retiree medical insurance evaporate.