GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

I just bought a new Vibe the day before yesterday.Yesterday I had a Pioneer Premier 790BT installed to replace the stock HU. The installer took forever, as he had to bypass the factory amp. I replaced the front speakers with 6.5" Infinity Reference speakers, and haven't touched the rears yet (ran out of money). I put a 10" Pioneer sub in a box in the back powered by an MTX amp under the driver's seat. Now, the problem . . . my wife isn't happy with the box in the back. She wants to use that space for other things. She would prefer using the factory sub. Here are my questions:1. How many OHMS is the factory monsoon sub? Will that sub work with my MTX amp? My amp is a TC3001 . . . that's 150 watts RMS x 1 at 4 Ohms OR 300 watts RMS x 1 at 2 Ohms. Installers have been telling me that my amp will blow the monsoon sub or the sub will cause my amp to overheat. 2. IF the sub will not be compatible with my amp, would it be possible to replace the factory sub with an aftermarket sub that would actually fit in the same enclosure? I'm finding there aren't a lot of 6" subs out there that are a thin enough profile to fit in that space.3. If NEITHER of the above options will work, what is my next choice for getting some bass in this car and having it HIDDEN? Eric

let me be the first to say welcome..what color is the vibe?? should post pics up when you get a chance...i my self just picked up a 2007 vibe..in wave blue..on the 21st of julyif you dont need that plastic piece in the back for the sub..i'll be happy to buy it off you..lol..i'd love to get it for my vibeif you're looking for a thin sub..kicker makes good ones..im not sure of the model but they're quite slim..maybe 2-3 inches deep

Hey, thanks for the reply. Congrats on your new vibe. I'd love to sell you what you're looking for . . . I just have to figure out my permanent setup and whether or not I'm going to need that first. Kicker's thin subs start at 6 inches so that wouldn't be an option unless I wanted to totally re-do the side panel. I still have the same questions . . . anyone?1. how many ohms is the monsoon sub? will it overheat my amp or will my amp blow it? 2. is there an aftermarket sub that will fit in that same space? Or is there nothing like this on the market? I'm starting to think there's absolutely nothing that will fit in that spot. 3. any other ideas for hiding a sub in this car? By the way, I love my new HU. The bluetooth is awesome. My RAZR bonds with it as soon as I get in the car. When someone rings in, my system becomes the phone & I just chat with them through the system and hear their voice through the speakers. I love technology!

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i cant really help with the first 2 questions but i've gathered that the door speakers are 2 ohms so i'll guess that the sub is too. heres a few links with pics of peoples sub setupsi think these first 2 are what you'll wanthttp://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=27978http://gallery.genvibe.com/gallery/votm0606http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=28530welcome to the board too

Welcome to GenVibe, your new second home..!!Seeing as i don't yet own my Vibe and mine has neither the Monsoon or the Moon n Tunes, some will be guesses... First, i gotta say, you bought an AWESOME head unit... the Premier line is top notch... That has a lot of features for future expansions, like the sub out put and internal crossovers to spit the sound up for the proper speakers.... High volt RCA output for low noise... You can get a accessory to add a USB input, that would easily allow you to add a hard drive to the system (I've seen as big as 250g laptop hard drives used with a USB input, think of the possibilities) So you are GOOD to go on that front..!!!!1. The monsoon system i believe is all 2 ohm.... So the amp you have should work, but, that sub is garbage.... Some may disagree, but if you have any experience with the aftermarket, it simply can not compair... 2. Replacing the factory sub with an aftermarket unit will NOT work, sub boxes are designed around the subs Thiel Small Parameters... and they are ALL different. 3. Your next choice would be starting here... http://www.crutchfield.com/S-a...51000You would have to figure out the dimensions of the space, again, i don't yet own mine, so i can not help much there... BUT, something like the above "could" be mounted in the back along the side so it would not take any space... something to consider... And if you were to go this route, you could put your Pioneer up for sale here or ebay... ya know.. Getting yourself a powered subwoofer would free up the amp that you have already, to run them infinities..!! I digress though, infinities aren't known for their Mid-bass output, there are "others" out there that would work out better for overall sound... (the infinities "could" be moved to the rear, if you will, if you cared to upgrade the fronts to something with more mid-bass output) If i were to make a recommendation on decent coaxial front speakers i would say Polk Db http://www.crutchfield.com/S-a...52000If you wanted to step it up a notch, i would go with component speakers. They offer a MUCH better crossover, which does a better job of splitting the high/mid frequencies for the mid/tweeter.. Again, for starters, i would suggest Polk Audio Db line... for quality and cost effectiveness... http://www.crutchfield.com/S-a...g=410I personally never power rear speakers, they are simply "fill" and are easily powered from the head unit and EASILY faded in/out to your personal preference of the amount of "fill" you like.... Some like the system faded to the center, i like having NO rear fill, unless i have people in the backSo that is all i have for now. Start researching and formulating ideas and we'll see what happens... Cheers,Aaron

Thanks for the reply. Are you saying I wouldn't have to "make" a box for the powered sub? I can just install it anywhere? Hm. Interesting idea. I was also wondering about your ideas on the speakers. Wouldn't it be better to put some speakers in the back that could handle a little bass (e.g., the polks you recommended) and keep the Infinitys up front? The Infinity speakers seem to have NO bass at this point . . . . maybe they need a bit of breaking in. But when I think about staging, I think about clear mid's and highs coming from the front, and just "fill" like you said, but maybe with a bit of added low end, from the rear. It seems like maybe the polks would fit that profile. If I put the Infinitys in the back, I wouldn't be getting any of that low end from the rear speakers to fill in. What do you think?

Well, if you check the link i provided, all the powered subs come pre-boxed and pre-amped, all you have to do is hook up the wires...!!! There are different sizes and shapes, so if you found a suitable one, it could be mounted on the side, behinds the rear wheel wells and there would be almost NO intrusion into the cargo area..!! I mean if you want to go custom like AudioVibe, ANYTHING is possible... As far as the speakers, have you ever been to a concert?? Does any of the sound come from behind you? No... so you want as much as you can get in FRONT of you. The more you can get in front of you the better the image and stage will be. Mid-bass i speak of is what gives you that "whap" when kick drums hit and it's also one of the hardest things to achieve.. So having mids that can reproduce this better is IDEAL for the listening environment. This is "why" i said you should move the infinities back (cause fill usually doesn't have and "bass", think home theater for a minute) and possibly get something different for the front.... Weather it is coaxial or components, the more bass/mid-bass you can get up front the better... Crossover frequencies help this as well, what do you have the sub you have now crossed over at??? Sub frequencies are Non-directional, so anything from about 80-90hz and below, you really can't tell where it is coming from... as you get above that your ears are more apt to "localize" the location the sound is coming from and it starts breaking up OR moving back the image/stage... You have much to learn young grasshopper, but you have landed in the right place...!!!If you would like to start your audio education, you should REALLY start reading here... http://www.bcae1.com/ Topics from the most basic to some incredibly complex are listed along the right side... so you can pick and choose what you want...

OK. I understand. I will do some reading up on the links you sent me.Let's get down to what I can do right now. Right now my system sits like this:1. Premier 790BT HU2. Infinity Reference Coaxial 6022i fronts3. Stock rear speakers4. 10" Pioneer TS-W256DVC sub5. MTX TC3001 (300 watts RMS x 1 at 2 ohms)I'm fairly disappointed with the sound so far. There's so much damn treble coming out of the front that it hurts my freaking ears. I have to tone it way down with the 7 band equalizer. On the other hand, the bass comes through too forcefully at times, and then not at all other times. A song will be playing and one frequency will just BUUUUZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ but then it will be almost non-existent when it hits the next note. The mids you're talking about don't seem to be anywhere. There's a lot of bass and a lot of treble. I'm not getting that mid-bass I was getting out of a very similar system in my last car. My last car had Infinity 5x7's in the front and 6x9's in the rear along with this same sub and same MTX amp. I LOVED that sound. Well balanced all the way around. Perfect. I can't seem to figure out how to balance this sound. Right now I'm pretty much stuck with this (funds are low due to purchase of new car and just spent over $700 on this new sound system so am broke right now). I've tried all the settings on the high pass filter and have stuck with 80Hz to give me a little bit of low end in the front speakers. I've tried fading the sound forward a bit and back a bit. I've tried messing with the "loudness" setting. I've messed with the deck's sub settings . . . right now I have it set to 125Hz to put as much mid-bass as possible in the sub (that's the max setting). You asked me what I have the sub crossed over at . . . the answer is . . . I don't know. I've told you everything I can think of above. I've just tried every setting and can't seem to get a good balance with the components I have now. One thing I haven't done is mess with the settings on the amp itself. Any ideas? In the next month or so I'll probably get those Polks and put them in the front and move the Infinity speakers to the rear like you suggest. Maybe I'll have to wait for that to be able to fix the balance problem. I wish I could describe it a little better. It's very strange. Sometimes I hear a frequency coming out of the sub, then it will just cut off abruptly, instead of sounding connected, like music should. I didn't have these problems with my last setup. Anyway, I'm rambling. I'm really hoping to be able to balance my system out right now. I might be tempted to go buy those Polks today even though I'm flat broke. By the way, are those Polks efficient enough to run off of deck power? thanks.

Ok, i wanna start from the back and work forward... From what i'm gathering, the sub is crossed over at 125hz, not bad but this is most likely why you are hearing things comming from it. You should try lowering it down to 80-90hz, which WILL cut out much of the mid-bass it's providing... Another thing is, where is the GAIN on the amp set? If you do some searching on the net, you should be able to find and download a 1kHz test tone and a 60hz test tone... if you can find them download and burn them to a disc. This will be the start of properly setting up the system gain... If you do not know, GAIN is NOT volume. It matches the input sensitivity of the amp to the output of the head unit (HU from now on) Make sure the loudness setting is OFF..!You start with the 1k tone, play it on repeat and when you start it, turn the HU up until there is a defined change in the sound, it should be near the 3/4 mark and it will be rather loud... Remember the number displayed, because you are going to shoot just below that number from that point on.... That is going to tell you where the HU starts to distort.... Now, turn the gain on the amp all the way down (does the amp have crossovers? if so set them to all pass, not HP or LP) Then play the 60hz tone at max volume you just figured out.... Now turn up the gain on the amp until you hear a defined change again, back off just a little.....you're done, your amp should be matched with the HU in terms of output... Now the lask of mid-bass could DEFINITLY be the new speakers, there is an amount of "break-in" time, but like i said, they are well known for lacking mid-bass period. So it could be that to... Some sound deadening, like Dynamat, Brown Bread, eDead, Hushmat, RAAMat, and so on could help a lot as well.... they speakers will be fine running from the HU, but will really shine when amped, that is why i was outlining that you could consider selling the 10" and box, buying yourself one of those powered subs (you alread have the wire run to) and using the amp for the front speaker.... Components will sound better over coaxials, but coaxials DO NOT sound bad overall, it's just the component set will have a much better crossover... both will sound better amped.. There "should" be a "phase" setting on either/both the HU and/or the amp. If the phase is off in respect to the rest of the system, things are happening at exactly oppisite times, read up on it from the link i gave you.... but it's something to be played with.... Also the phase of the new front speaker could be off, a quick test of that is, moving the balence setting slightly over to one side or the other, if things sound better as soon as you start changing the setting, you have one of the speaker out of phase and they are fighting aginst one another.... If this is true, one of the speakers wires need to be switched, +/- or vice versa.... Well, it's time for me to head home, so i should also have your mind realing at this point, but, it seems you are a good student, so this shouldn't be a difficult process...Cheers,Aaron

OK . . . I will look at setting the gain on the sub. I appreciate the VERY clear directions. I'm hoping and guessing that Stereo King did all that though when they installed the amp under the driver's seat. Here is a bit I just found on the Crutchfield site supporting my idea that the rears should be more bass-oriented . . . or maybe I'm misunderstanding it.Quote »While your front speakers should give you the best midrange and high frequencies possible, your rear speakers can be conventional coaxials or low frequency drivers. Their purpose is to add ambience and depth to your forward soundstage. If they reveal too much high frequency information, they'll "pull" the stereo image to the rear of your vehicle, away from where you want it.I also appreciate the idea about testing the wiring of the speakers by fading front / back and balancing left / right. I HAVE found a problem . . . right now, when I fade to the rear speakers (they sound VERY bad) then I move the balance left to right, the sound decreases in volume but both speakers continue to run. In other words, when I'm faded rear (sub off, just the two rear door speakers) and I fade left, the sound decreases but both the left and right are still sounding at a similar volume. I'm also perceiving that the right of the car (front speakers) is louder than the left. I'm definitely taking it back to Stereo King to get the wiring problems fixed. That may help with the soundstage overall. What I'm thinking of doing, based on the Crutchfield bit I quoted above, is leaving the Infinity speakers up front . . . because they do provide great mids and highs, and they don't distort even with the high pass filter off. Then I'll buy some 6.5's to replace the rear stock speakers which, when I isolate them, sound just TERRIBLE and BOOMY and MUDDY. If I replace those with nice speakers that are known for providing more mid-bass, I think I'll round out the soundstage nicely. What do you think? I just wish, now that I've thought about it a bit more, that I had gotten an efficient pair of component speakers for the front, then a decent pair of coaxials for the rear. But I've already installed the Infinity speakers, and don't want to go backward. Later, when I can afford it, I'll get the basslink or some other powered sub, then I'll use the MTX to power those Infinity speakers. What do you think? Thanks again for all the advice.

Well it definitely sounds like you might have a wiring issue. Use the balance and fade to move the sound to each corner. Does the sound move the way you want it to? I'm not 100% with the description you gave... What that Crutchfield blurb is saying is that the rear speaker can be limited in the frequency output, you don't need to have treble coming from the rear and considering WHERE the rear speakers are placed in the door, they are basically useless for anything BUT fill.... Case in point, putting the Infinities back there and getting something that can provide proper mid-bass output up front... they mention a "low frequency driver" which is simply a mid-bass and i DO NOT agree with there line of thinking... While high frequency information WILL pull the image/stage rearward, it also provides ambient fill that "opens" the image/stage. I still feel you should consider moving the Infinities to the back, replacing then crappy muddy stock speakers. Getting either a component set or a nicer set of coaxial for the from and amping them with the amp you have, after replacing the sub system that is more "wife" friendly... I feel from my own experience that you would end up much happier this way...

Since I was already in way over my head (pricewise) I decided to get the Polks and put them in the rear doors. I don't think I could be much happier. The mid-bass is MUCH fuller.However, I made a really stupid mistake today. I unplugged the sub because we put a bunch of stuff in the car. I didn't make sure the wires weren't touching and I blew the 30 amp fuse in the amplifier. I went to Schucks, bought a couple fuses, put one in and it started smelling like sulfur, then POP! there went my amp. So I'm sitting here saying to myself, "My wife didn't want the sub in the back anyway because of the space, so I guess I should have listened to her."So now the questions are:1. Why in the *&% heck did the amplifier blow? It was a 30 amp green fuse that came out of there, and it was a 30 amp green fuse I put back in there. 2. Can I just unplug all the wires, tape up the ends and leave them there for the next amp I buy? Will it be a bad thing having all those loose wires down there? Or will it not affect the system at all?3. I'm pretty sure the amplifier is GONE, but if I take it in to a shop, can they verify that for me? 4. Does anyone have an amp they want to give me?

Well man, it must have been CAR-MA.... LoLers.... Since it's already farked, open it up and have a look-see. Most amps have short circut protection, so i can't honestly say what might have gone wrong... But again, opening it up will tell you for sure if something burnt. As far as keeping the wires there, it's fine.. I would remove the fuse from the power wire near the battery.... There is a fuse near the battery, right? Other than that, like you said, tape everything up and you are golden... Well, i guess it's time to start moving forward on the plan we "kinda" put together.... I see you already started with the Polk and aginst recomendation, you still put them in the back... which is fine, i'm not hurt to much... lol... I just think you would be happier yet, if they went in the front doors... But, it's not my car or my ears... I'm just happy you are happy with them.... Welcome to the wonderfull world of car audio... Cheers,Aaron

Can you believe that I lost my amp? What a frustrating moment. It wasn't too much in the recent scheme of things . . . the deck and speakers and installation of those were the most expensive part. So I'm not out too much. I just can't figure out why that happened.Anyway, I really DID want to take your recommendation (that is, putting the Polks up front) but it was a funding issue. The wife (the most wonderful person in my life, of course) is tired of spending money on something so frivolous if you know what I mean. She supported getting the speakers, but not RE-installing speakers I had already had installed. That would have been paying twice to have the same speakers installed. Additionally, I think the Polks are doing a good job of providing that mid-bass and fill . . . I think you'd be impressed with the sound of the car at this point (just lost my low frequencies now). I just turned off the high pass filter and I'm pretty impressed with the sound . . . even without my sub. And I'm really loving the Bluetooth functions of the deck, even IF my stupid phone won't auto-connect (it always makes me GRANT access). So, keep in mind that I WANTED to follow your advice but the timing just wasn't right. So now, my goal is to find a good amp (perhaps one that will power the fronts and the sub), and to find a sub that can be hidden. These are my current ideas . . . 1. I'm still thinking that I can put a sub in the enclosure that's already there. I want to tear the old one out and see what size it is. People in the forum are saying it's an 8" but two techs who've looked at it say it's a 6" . . . so I'm just going to have to take it out and see what it is for myself. I know you said each sub has different Thiel small parameters, but . . . there are a LOT of pre-made boxes out there sold in the stores. If each sub is supposed to have a different sized box, then why are there so many pre-made boxes out there? And would it absolutely RUIN the sound if the box was not the right size? Or would it work pretty well, but just be a little inefficient? Anyway, this option would be ideal because there's already an enclosure that's taking up space and it would be a shame if I couldn't use it. Plus, I could just take the old one out and put a new one in . . . probably very little modification would be required. So, that's something I'm going to look into. Any feedback would be appreciated though.2. A powered subwoofer would still be a good plan, I think. Although I'm still not sure where I'd put it. Under one of the seats? In the enclosure that's on the side (obviously I'd have to do some modification to get one to fit in there. I'm thinking that as small as that space is, I won't be able to find anything that will actually do the job well. I have found some 6" or 6.5" powered subs, but those seem so small. So . . . the powered subwoofer is still an idea. One thing that scares me off a bit is that if the amp goes, the entire unit is blown. I've seen that a lot of people have had longevity issues with, say, the Infinity basslink. So, this is still another option.3. Building a totally custom box. There's a spot in the back, above the spare tire, that MIGHT work for a thin 10" sub. For instance, Pioneer makes a very thin 10" sub. I could install that in there. That would be a lot of extra work, though, and customization, and my summer (and therefore free time) is quickly coming to an end. Additionally, wouldn't I have the same problem (with the thiel small parameters)? I can't exactly change the size of that space in there and I'm sure it's not optimal for ANY sub that would actually fit in there. Plus, I'm not sure it's SOLID enough. I know the enclosure should be sealed and solid. That space is a bit, well, plasticky and doesn't seem solid enough. So, those are the future options I'm thinking of. I'd really like to go with option #1, but I have to get that other sub out of there and find out how much space I really have in there. What do you think?

Yeah, i understand the situation, if you are not doing the installation yourself, then yeah, you gotta pay twice for the same thing... wives don't like that much... I was just thinking that it's not that difficult to do it yourself... I know that there are a few tutorials on here that outline the steps... 1. you can try, i can't comment on what sort of results you may get.. As far as pre-mades go, well, it's kinda a gray area, in a sealed box, it is said that you can change the box size by .5 cubic feet and not be able to decern a difference... so it gives some "flub" factor. Many that buy the various pre-mades caouldn't honestly tell the difference (no offence) You are on the right trach though, they may not sound terrible, but the effiency and or power handeling may suffer... 2. the powered option, like the Basslink, might be a very worthy idea. I think you could place it sitting upright with the woofer facing one side or the other, behind the rear wheels well... You can also get them with a 4ch optional amp and run a complete system from them, if you like.... 3. Custom is cool, but if you are paying for it, it's very expensive and i would only trust it to "mom n pop" shops, and not the big guys (Circut ****tY, Best Blah, and so on) They have neither the time or the WANT to build anything properly.... I would only trust them for head pops and door speakers... well, personaly, i wouldn't trust them period, but to the masses, they are a godsend, if you are not doing your own work... I like your idea of option 1, but i just don't think you will end up happy... the factory amp won't be able to push a decent woofer hard enough IMO... and the box size with a different woofer, will be a big limiting factor as well...

Here's what I've decided to do . . . after long hours of poring over the problem . . . and this decision gives me the most peace of mind.replace the amp I blew and use the subwoofer that I currently have. However, when replacing the amp, I'm going to go for a 4 channel and use 2 of the channels to power my sub and 2 channels to power my Infinity speakers (I know, Aaron, I should be amping the Polks, but this is just how it's going to have to be). Then the Polks will provide the rear fill. I MIGHT try to install this myself, but I'm a bit afraid of blowing things up since I just blew my current amp up. But I've been reading up on things (thanks for the great links, Aaron) and I'm slowly learning about I'm doing.After saving up a bit of $$, I'm going to have an installer I trust make a custom, sealed enclosure for me located in the same space as the current factory sub. There is a lot of room in there, and I am fairly confident that I could get an 8" subwoofer in there. I looked at some of the custom work this guy does today, and it's pretty awesome. I'd like to be able to do it myself, but honestly, I don't trust myself, and honestly, I'm too dang busy with my other chores, hobbies, and, of course, my job. This will take a bit of time (for me to save up the cash) but I believe the results will be well worth it.I've read countless reviews on different powered subwoofers. I really like this idea, because there are many different products that would fit right underneath either front seat. For instance, the JVC CS-BB2 is approximately 8" x 12" x 3" . . . that would fit very well. There's also the Kenwood KSC-SW1, which has a lot of good reviews, or the Blaupunkt THB200A. Any of these would fit, and they'd do the trick. However, I don't think they'd do the trick well enough for me. My ear is very picky (I'm a musician at heart) and deep, rich, accurate bass seems pretty hard to come by these days unless you set things up right. Using a powered subwoofer like the ones listed above would be convenient, simple, and easy on the pocketbook. But would I be satisfied with the sound in the long run? I really don't think I would be. So, for me, the cheapest route (at this point), toward getting the sound I want is to get an amplifier, then get my current sub powered up again. Of course, I'm stuck with having a big box in the back (for a while), which my wife really doesn't want, but in a couple months, when I've saved up the cash, I'll get my custom enclosure built and I'll sell that sub on craigslist and get my new 8" sub. I'm guessing the system will be complete by around, well, Christmas. I might get lucky and come across some extra cash soon, but not sure how I'd pull that one off!In the future, I'll also consider replacing the Infinity speakers up front and the stock tweets with a component speaker system (which is what I should have done the first time, but oh well). That will be a while down the road, because justifying that (at this point) would be impossible. When you are married, your $$ is not only yours anymore!So . . . right now, my system is . . . Pioneer Premier DEH P790BT HUInfinity Reference 6022i 6 1/2" coaxials up front (with factory tweets)Polk db651 6 1/2"coaxials in the rearPioneer TS-W256DVC 10" sub (but blew my MTX amp so not hooked up right now)I'm wanting to add an amplifier as a next step to power my Infinity's and the sub. I'm looking at the Profile AP1040 4-channel amplifier. It has a great warranty, a low price, and I think it would serve my purposes for the time being. It would power my sub nicely, power my infinity speakers up front, and my Polks would be powered off of my deck. Then, later on, when I get more $$, I'll get another amp to power the sub and hook up all my car speakers to the Profile amp. Geez, I'm rambling. I'll shut up now . . . it's time for bed.

Well, man, it looks like you are doing your homework and following the proper path to your audio bliss.... This is really all i could ever ask being an X-installer..!! I've passed on the tools for you to use to learn what YOU want, and that is all I'm ever interested in... making sure that you are happy with YOUR system... sounds like I've done my job and can feel confident that you have a good hold on what it is YOU are after... I have a nice warm fuzzy feeling about this... Thank you for listening and being able to formulate your own conclusions... you took my opinions for what they are opinions, made them your own and are learning in leaps and bounds.... My job is done here, the force is strong with this one...!!!!Good luck to you and keep us(me) updated...Cheers mate,Aaron