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calling all cold weather drivers!!

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 12:07 pm
by pmh013
I've posted once on this topic already ... but now that winter is really here, I was hoping that someone else has finally experienced this problem:When driving at highway speeds (100 + kph / 60+ mph), the Vibe will spontaneously downshift, and the RPMs go up to 4000. Then, it will upshift, then downshift, then upshift again.... repeat continuously. I am a commuter (210 km/day), and this type of response is completely unacceptable. My milage has dropped by 1/3 since November!! I finally got my local dealer to replace the ECM (that only took 3 months and several calls to GM). It was fine the day I got it back (it was -18C), but the next day, when it was -30C, my car still sucked.Do I have a lemon, or what? Is it wrong for me to expect a 4 cylinder car to be able to keep highway speeds despite the temperature??I'm thinking about trading it in, but I'll never get my money out of it (I've already put on 41000 km).Sorry for being so long winded, but I'm at a loss Any ideas greatly appreciated!!

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 1:06 pm
by red
I have regularly driven my awd in cold weather, -25 below F, being the coldest since i bought the car in Jan. During these cold spells. I HAVE NEVER had the tranny cycle like that...my mileage has never exceeded 22mpg..which like silverawd26, i attribute to the winter weather. Maybe there is a bad relay or sensor in the transmission that causing this? something that has to do with the overdrive function? the ecm controls the engine and probably alot of the tranny, but does it control all the tranny sensors or does the tranny have its own electronic brain??? just some thinking out loud

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 1:51 pm
by Flip-Side
That sucks to hear. Do you let your car warm up before driving it in that weather? If you start your car and just take to the freeway in temperatures like that, of course you will have problems. But if the car is warmed up, and still has those troubles, it's unacceptable. I would make em replace the tranny if the trouble continues.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Sat Feb 22, 2003 2:10 pm
by KSNeptune
Uhm..... Is your drive hilly? Do you drive into the wind often? The AWD has the least HP and the most weight of the three Vibe versions. It has almost the same weight-to-HP ratio of my old Nissan 4 cyl pickup truck. Now my pickup is a manual 5 speed, so I have to be the gear supervisor. When I drive around my part of Kansas (flint hills landscape) and am going up hill, the truck often starts slowing down if I'm in 5th with the pedal to the floor. So I have to downshift to maintain enough power to keep my speed up. So don't be surprised if the auto decides it has to downshift. You might just be heading into a strong wind. And once downshifted it will be able to speed up again, which will then make the car think it can upshift. Thus the cycle.Now I recently had my truck fully tuned up. This lets it perform a little better, and thus it requires less downshifting to stay at speed on the highway. Perhaps you are getting bad (low octane, perhaps watery) gas, or have a fouled fuel or air filter. The automatic AWD is going to have to be running perfectly to be a good 4th gear performer on hilly or windy highways.BTW, cold air is denser than warm air. That means it takes more energy to push a car through it.Just some things to consider. Hope it helps.KSNeptune.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 6:22 am
by pmh013
Thanks for all your ideas!Here's what the dealer has told me:they don't know much about Vibe's only having sold one (to me). So Pontiac thought that replacing the ECM would/should fix this problem, having encountered similar trouble with the GT's; therefore that is what they did. Apparantly this ECM is the big black box of the system: controls the cruise, tranny, etc.I park the car in the garage overnight, so it is only experiencing -5C (23F) as a maximum cold. I start it up, wait about 30 secs, then hit the road. I don't punch it right down though, I usually dawdle along til the temp gets up.The drive is not overly hilly -- never having been to Kansas, I can't compare. The terrain here is pretty flat (the joke is you can watch your dog run away for 2 days). Compared to the US, it is like North/South Dakota, and the flat parts of Illinois/Minnesota/Iowa. I have a couple of dips/hills, and I expect the tranny to do some shifting there. It's when I'm on the flat ground and it starts doing this -- that cheeses me! Also, the wind (almost) always comes from one direction around here, so generally it is worse heading into the wind (going home). Again, I expect that, and I'll accept it (though I don't like it).Roads have been clear -- had the cruise on, and haven't ditched it yet.The amazing part is, every time I book an appointment to go to the dealership, the temp warms up, and the car behaves perfectly. ARGH!!It's really darn cold here today (-36C plus wind chill =-50C), so needless to say it sucked gas like my Ford Explorer did (which is why I bought the Vibe). But, I wouldn't know how cold it is from my outside temp sensor, which only goes to -30!!I guess I'll have to take it back to the dealership and hope that they can learn something.Thanks again!!OK, here's an update for tonight's drive home.Started car & let it warm up for 25 minutes (it was -22C when I left work).I had 2 extra people in the car, and it accelerated poorly.Did the upshift, downshift thing, even on the flat parts.Then, I got to a really flat part, and the snow was blowing across the highway (but not sticking), and it really had a hard time -- I spent most of that 10 km with the tach at 3700.Obviously there is a problem here.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2003 2:39 pm
by red
next time it happens, dont make an appointment, just take it in as its misbehavin'... sometimes trouble codes can be erased if the vehicle doesnt go in right away...if it does it while they drive it..they can slap a portable scanner on it and get some #s.question...does the engine seem to be revving high but not going anywhere or does the engine seem slow to rev up? if its revving but not going, its most likely tranny issues...if slow revving, no power..then its more likely an engine management issue! there wouldnt be a toyota dealer nearby handy would there?

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 12:11 am
by pmh013
OK, I have again called the dealer and they are coming to pick it up today. After expressing, in several different ways, my disappointment with this car, they have decided to try and help me. I also found out that they did not replace the ECM, but the Cruise Control Module under the dash. Are they one and the same??The problem is I live in a rural area. I commute through 3 towns of significant size (ie above 500 people) and I bunch more that are smaller. There is no Pontiac dealer in my town, or the town I work in. The dealership is another 1/2 hour further down the road. You'll have to drive 1 hour to find a Toyota dealer, and I didn't exactly have a good experience with them when I went looking at the Matrix (but that's for another post). The engine revs a lot, but you never seem to go anywhere ... acceleration is almost non-existent, so I think Red is right about tranny issues. When I told the dealer I wanted it replaced, boy did they jump into action!!I don't think I could get that car up to 85 mph. It's a struggle to get to 75. Good thing the speed limit is only 62 mph!!I checked my milage this morning... a dismal 12L/100 km or 20 MPG. I used to get 6.5L/100 km or 36 MPG.I USED to be able to get NORMAL performance out of this car, but not since late October, when the weather turned cold. Coincidence or just 20000 km on a defective tranny?Will update with more as I learn

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 3:08 am
by red
talked to a buddy of mine who heads up the chevy shop here in fairbanks (he also worked on toyotas for awhile)....he said that it sounds like a hydralic problem since it only did it when it was cold and the seals MAYBE were letting the tranny fluid flow past thus losing pressure needed to operate the various clutches and torque convertor...in other words, not electrical as much as hydralic .... they should be going deep into that tranny to find out whats defective...you wouldnt see seepage on the ground since it would be leaking internally in the case....also he told me that toyota is like gm in that only one brainbox runs the show....the cruise control module may have a control over the shift points of the tranny he said, so that would be why they replaced it.....however there are various electronic modulators and sensors in the tranny that send info to the brainbox....but since the problem is cold related, it wouldnt be electronic since it would be doing it all the time.....also he said a check engine light should have appeared on the dash, if it was electronic in nature or otherwise...i hope this gives you some ideas.... keep the faith ill see if i can get anymore info for ya

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (red)

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:20 am
by pmh013
Wow, thanks for that info, Red!! I haven't heard back from the dealership yet, maybe it's time for the hourly phone calls to start So, is that brainbox in my car, or a comment on the the company as a whole?? I'm sure that somewhere out there, there is an engineer who designed this darn thing that knows exactly what the problem is, but the consumer never gets to talk to them ...BTW, I have NEVER had a check engine light come on. When this problem first cropped up, they hooked up the diagnostics, but of course nothing came back, so it probably is not electronic, or the problem is the electronic part that should be exporting the codes!!Impatiently waiting ....

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 4:58 am
by red
you might want to check out various websites like matrixowners.com or matrixvibe.com and see if others are having tranny issues too....i thought that there might have been others, but cant remeber for sure...its not real common but then how many other vibes/matrixes have 20,000km on them? its a fairly new car design but except for the v-flex awd system, the rest of the car is NOT new and has been around for awhile. the vibe gt's/ matrix xrs's (early production) seemed to have idling/stalling issues and the companies were replacing main computer units on them to solve the problem...thats seemed to be the major problem up to this point with the twins...normally toyota corp. is legendary for their design and mechanical reliability, however they get their parts from subcontractors so toyota doesnt have complete control over quality...regardless, your issue with your vibe is more like if the dealer can properly find and fix, rather than a company wide lack of quality...but i would be hoppin' mad too

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 5:42 am
by pmh013
I will have a courtesy car here today, and my Vibe will go back to the hospital. Will check out the other forums for this problem too!Update -- didn't find anything on the Matrix sites. Anybody know the URLs of the other Vibe sites? My Vibe just left, & the guy from the dealership says it runs like crap (no kidding). I am now the proud driver of a 2001 Cavalier!!

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 10:17 am
by pmh013
Well, tonight's drive home was awesome (in the Cavalier)! Nice to not hear the engine screaming.Now taking wagers on how long Vibe will be in the shop

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:38 pm
by pmh013
Well, silver, I hope you are right. Part of my pessimistic nature, I guess, to assume that most everyone around me is an idiot. I will enjoy the Cavalier while I've got it, go skiing this weekend, and not worry about the Vibe. Cheers!

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Wed Feb 26, 2003 3:46 am
by red
at least they know that there is an issue, they gave you a run around car and are trying to fix your vibe....that is a very good sign for you!! i'm sure that now they know what its doing, the mechanics can solve the problem have patience, enjoy the loaner and the skiing!!things like this have a habit of working themselves out

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 3:03 am
by pmh013
I just returned from the dealership. My car's not fixed yet, but they have run a lot of diagnostics, and discovered that, when attempting to accelerate, the car is losing fuel pressure. Therefore, they are hoping that the fuel filter is plugged (100 points to KSNeptune for suggesting this -- I don't know if I'm allowed to give out points, but I'm gonna do it anyway ). A new filter should be there tomorrow, and with any luck, my car will be back to me on Monday.So, I guess the ECM downshifted the car, attempting to compensate for a lack of fuel pressure.TTFN!

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:20 am
by red
i'm glad that everything worked out and it sounds that it was a minor glitch not major its amazing how complicated these new cars are nowadays!

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (red)

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:03 am
by pmh013
Complicated, yes! Did you know that the fuel filter is IN the gas tank? Apparantly this is common in new cars.In my old 85 Dodge Charger, the fuel filter was the first thing you saw when you opened the hood. And really easy to change! (even my dad could change it, and he's not exactly handy ... he leaves the mechanical stuff to his daughter )I just wish the dealer had run this type of diagnostics 3 months ago! Then, I wouldn't have gotten so many grey hairs over the situation. Oh well, all's well that ends, especially the 500+ km I got to put on the Cavalier & not on the Vibe!!

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:14 am
by pmh013
That's exactly what I told the service guy (Really, in the tank, no, you're kidding....) I guess "ease of service" wasn't first on the priority list when designing the fuel system. I guess that's why I'm not an engineer at GM! I'll stick to my farm equipment, thanks.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:16 am
by pmh013
You know, I was thinking about going after Pontiac for the extra mileage. Scary thing is, I have a receipt for every tank of gas I put into that car.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:23 am
by pmh013
Yes, this is true, Toyota engineers had a lot to do with this ... JD makes a very good tractor. Of all the paint colours, I like to see green in front of the seeders I design.I don't think I'd want to be an automotive engineer anyway. Way too much press for stuff that's a bad design. I'd feel bad.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:30 am
by pmh013
I work for a company called Seed Hawk ... pretty small really, we produce

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!!

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:34 am
by NSimkins
Back on topic please.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:38 am
by pmh013
I was waiting for that ... another time, and in another forum, perhaps.Gotta run!

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Thu Feb 27, 2003 11:19 am
by pmh013
LOL... OK, it turns out I didn't have to run. No ER on tonight. Shall we continue this in the appropriate forum?

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 8:57 am
by pmh013
OK, folks, I'm choked beyond all belief.Vibe was delivered back to me today. Courtesy Car Guy says, "It's still doing that shifting thing ... you know you can't expect these little cars with their 4 cylinder engines to compete with the wind when it's cold like this."The short story, my car is not fixed, and even the CCG knows it, yet they still return it to me!!!As a matter of fact, it runs worse than when they picked it up.In the interest of science, I kept lowering the cruise until it would stop downshifting --- I got to 98 km/h, and then I was at home.I have a feeling I will not be a Vibe owner for much longer. I cannot and should not be expected to tolerate this CRAP Sorry folks, I'm going to go drink myself into oblivion.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:02 am
by pmh013
OK, I'm 1/2 way thru my second double Paralyzer (aka Colorado Bulldog) and I'm starting to come down off the ceiling. My f-word frequency is down to about 1 an hour, which is pretty good for me I phoned the dealership from my cell, when I was about 5 km from work. (The tach sat at 4000 RPM for most of that time -- it downshifted once). I told them to make arrangements to come back and get it tomorrow morning, because it's running worse than when the got it last week.The good news is, the technician is coming up tomorrow morning, and bringing the portable diagnostics. We're going for a drive.What fails to regsiter with me is how a GM Trained Technician lets a car go out the door if it's still busted. Can this guy find his own (removed), or does he need a map and a compass???You know, I may be "just a dumb girl," but I know a lemon when one lands in my tea. Are there Region GM Reps in Canada? Or maybe I should phone back that nice lady at GM Canada on the 800 number. She seems to get results (got that module I waited 3 months for in only 5 days). Maybe she'll come out from Ontario & fix my car. I bet she could find her own (removed).I need another drink. It's time to get smashed.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 10:38 am
by NSimkins
quote:I need another drink. It's time to get smashed. Yes yes... it's nerve-intensive. I've been through the same thing, luckily not with my Vibe. Just keep persisting, bring the vehicle back, make tons of phone calls to get the word out (GM reps.)... eventually we all hope this will be resolved for you... and soon!

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:37 pm
by pmh013
The dealership called me again this morning.They are not coming to get the car.According to GM Technical Assistance, the Vibe AWD is underpowered for highway operation in my climate.They do not have a solution to remedy this situation.GM's 800 line lady says they are working on the problem, and are hoping to find a solution soon.SO, if you have heard of ANYONE having this problem, please post. I'm going to start a new thread on this, hoping to attract someone who's had a similar problem, and maybe if we all put our brains together, we'll figure out a solution.I'm afraid I'm going to have to sell this car. I'll take a major hit financially because I still owe so much, and with so many km on it... I'll never get what I owe.Spare change for the poor?

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:42 pm
by Kent
quote:According to GM Technical Assistance, the Vibe AWD is underpowered for highway operation in my climate.I'm not a lawyer, but that sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen. Did GM indicate to you when you bought the car that it was "underpowered for highway operation in your climate"? If not, I'd talk to a friendly lawyer and see what they have to say...Kent

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (Kent)

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:47 pm
by pmh013
Kent,Excellent point. I also want to know if Pontiac is going to reimburse me for all the extra fuel this car has consumed. It's rated at 41 mpg highway, but I know that's not reasonable. I expect 34-36 mpg. I'm getting 22.When I hear back from GM or the dealership, I will certainly bring up the fact that GM did not indicate that this problem was possible.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2003 11:57 pm
by Triton
I have never heard such crap in all my life! Underpowerd for climate?! Sounds like someone doesn't know what the problem really is and they are hoping that bs-ing something will pasify you. If they cannot find out what the problem is, I think you should call a lawyer.And you can throw out the "dumb girl" factor. There are a lot of women who know more about cars than men. I mean take yourself for instance. You are investigating your problem thorougly and getting all probable causes. An educated customer is a smart customer. Keep on them and let us know what happens.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (Triton GT)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 12:05 am
by pmh013
Triton, I think you're bang-on the money -- I'm being fed crap, and I don't like how it tastes.And I'm not a dumb girl. I have a degree in engineering, and I knew more about the technical specs on this car than my salesman did.This is gonna get ugly .... hmmm there's no icon for that.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 12:24 am
by Triton
I know what you mean. I think I educated my salesman about quite a few things about the Vibe that he didn't know. On example is that he didn't know that the GT required premium fuel. If I was a salesman, I would research everything about the vehicles that were going to be released. Anyways, I hope this can be worked out soon for you.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (Triton GT)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 12:28 am
by NSimkins
quote:Sounds like someone doesn't know what the problem really is and they are hoping that bs-ing something will pasify you.That is exactly what it sounds like to me as well! I've been trying to understand that 'excuse' but it is too rediculous for me to even believe. Unfortunately it seems if anyone encounters a weird problem no one really knows an answer to "at this moment", then you will get a new excuse each time you talk to someone. If you get additional confirmations on this problem from other AWD owners (don't forget the Matrix AWD owners as well!) then this really should be something deserving immediate action. If not, they need to pick up the ball on this one and do some serious investigations.Don't give up! You're doing a great job and gathering good information for others that may have this problem.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 12:31 am
by Triton
quote:This is gonna get ugly .... hmmm there's no icon for that.Here is a great site to get icons for "special" situations like this. http://www.emoticons4u.com/

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (Triton GT)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 12:41 am
by pmh013
Thanks, Triton, I needed that. I liked the violence ones best. I'm gonna come out against GM with guns a-blazin!Off to the Matrix sites!!

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:03 am
by red
is there a lemon law in your Canadian province? i agree w/the lawyer idea! if the vibe awd is underpowered for cold climates, then what about vw diesels? that whole line they gave you doesnt make sense....interior alaska is just as cold as yours and awds arent biting the dust here......go gettum girl tear 'em a new one when is your warranty up??? are they waiting until the warranty expires on this thing before they fix it

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (red)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:36 am
by pmh013
No lemon laws in Canada, to my knowledge -- perhaps a legal expert can correct me.What Tech Support is saying is that the car does not have enough power to run the AWD & be on the highway at highway speeds & have it be cold out & go into the wind. If I didn't have the AWD, it would be fine.My BF owns a Jetta diesel -- only 90 HP & right now it kicks my car's (removed). I was thinking that my next car would be a Jetta ... I just didn't think I'd get my next car so soon.Car has 42000 km. Warranty goes til 60000 km. However, I first reported this problem to the dealership at 21000 km, so even if this goes over 60K, in my opinion, it is a pre-existing condition, so there's no getting out of this one!!

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 3:46 am
by Sub-Vibe-R
quote:No lemon laws in Canada, to my knowledge -- perhaps a legal expert can correct me.Your wright. No lemon law here in Canada. Dealer has as much chance he wants to fix the problem.It's very stupid, you can have you money back if your toaster does not work like you want but you cannot have your money back with a car.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (Sub-Vibe-R)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 4:22 am
by pmh013
but after I make toast in in for 8 months, would WalMart still take it back? I doubt it. They might give me an in-store credit, then write the toaster off as a manufacturers defect or damaged in transport.I could trade it back in, but 1) there's nothing I want on any Pontiac or GM lot, and 2) I'm financed to the hilt, so I would take a substantial loss. I could sell it privately & take the hit, but who would buy this car? I can't sell it like this! Maybe if I wait until the weather warms up, I'll be able to dump it then, but for now...

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 9:19 am
by pmh013
Not that I'm aware of. The service manager has put in a call to the Field Rep -- but no response yet.I'm thinking I'm gonna put in a call to Jeff Strausser, Vibe Brand Quality Manager. I found his name & number on the internet -- NHSTA?? Where's area code 810?

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 11:14 am
by NSimkins
quote:I found his name & number on the internet -- NHSTA??Yup, he's in a few of the online PDF documents pertaining to the Vibe TSB's... conveniently for you his number is listed. If you call, let us know how it goes!quote:Where's area code 810?Appropriately, Flint, Michigan area. http://www.cs.ucsd.edu/users/bsy/area.html

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (silverawd26)

Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2003 10:03 pm
by pmh013
Good to know about the area code change. I tried calling that number last night, but of course, it was no longer in service. I'll try again today with the 586 area code.Any bets that the media & Better Business Bureau would be interested in my story???

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 1:46 am
by Frosty
quote:My BF owns a Jetta diesel -- only 90 HP & right now it kicks my car's assSorry I haven't been following your thread for the past few days. I got lost when you were talking about tractors....1)Is your BF's Jetta an auto? The TDI isn't about the h.p., it is the torque . 155ft/lbs @ 1900 rpm is solid for a little car. He would be getting double the mileage as well. Source: http://www.vw.com/jettawagon/tech.htm 2)True we don't have lemon laws but there may be other remedies. The public. This forum is a good start, don't forget http://www.matrixvibe.net Once you get all your facts together (saving your gas bills is brilliant), find a friendly reporter with the paper or CBC marketplace or somewhere that will listen to your story. Mention this to your dealer or tech rep or 1-800-GMDRIVE (hope I got that # right, it is in your documentation) and perhaps when they know you are taking your story to the media, they may change their tune. Let them know you are consulting with 100's of other owners, who are watching your story and waiting for them to do the right thing.IF GM says this car is not designed for your enviroment, they shouldn't have offered it for sale.Having said that there still might be something up with your car. The journalists went across Canada last winter had no problems with the same model you have. From http://www.canadiandriver.com/testdrive ... hevibe.htm I have to say that I was impressed with the Vibe's overall performance. Its all-wheel-drive system is particularly sure-footed at high-speed on snow-packed roads where it significantly enhances stability. I was travelling at speeds of up to 120 km/h in the snow, and felt quite confident Now this particular journalist didn't have -30 C conditions. Perhaps http://www.Canadiandriver.com would be a good place to start. Maybe the journalists that drove through Manitoba and Saskatchewan would have some info for you. I think (hope) they would have reported if they had problems like you have.Hope this helps. Good luck!

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (Frosty)

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 2:51 am
by pmh013
Ya, we got a little sidetracked with the tractor talk, but we're back on target now.This Jetta is a 1997, 5 speed manual, rated at 90 HP. And yes, he gets double the mileage, and isn't paying 85.9 cents per litre. I'm not sure of the torque rating for this car...I'm now a member of 3 Vibe/Matrix forums: this one, matrixvibe.net and matrixowners.com. I haven't been getting as much response from the other 2 as I had hoped, but this could all take time.I've started a log of all the dates my car was in the shop. I phoned the dealership yesterday to confirm, and told them why I was creating this list -- in case we needed to get the lawyers involved. Didn't get much of a response from that, either.I'm not sure the paper will attract the kind of attention necessary. The nearest city with a daily paper is 2 hours away, so I definitely think TV will be the way to go. Good thinking on CBC Marketplace. I was thinking of Dale Goldhawk from CTV ... I don't know if he's still around.I indicated yesterday to the lady on the 800 line that I wanted Pontiac to take this car back. She said they won't on account of the km now on it, that my only option would be a trade. I've thoroughly read the warranty booklet that came with my car, and it never mentions what the remedy is when the don't know how to fix your car. Surprise, surprise. I have launched a complaint with Transport Canada. The nice guy I talked to there agrees that I'm getting fed a pretty tall tale. They are now working on the problem I will check out the links for Canadian Driver. The funny thing is, it's not snow packed roads that are the problem, it's DRY PAVEMENT!!! I would never drive 120 km/h on snowy roads -- that's suicide. I've told the dealer that I've talked with Vibe owners (& Matrix owners too) all over N. America, and NOT ONE has had this problem. If the Vibe hasn't crapped out in Fairbanks, Alaska, why is it crapping out in Saskatchewan???

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:10 am
by Frosty
quote: I would never drive 120 km/h on snowy roads -- that's suicide. Agreed. I thought that was a little irresponsible of the writer too.quote:I've told the dealer that I've talked with Vibe owners (& Matrix owners too) all over N. America, and NOT ONE has had this problem. If the Vibe hasn't crapped out in Fairbanks, Alaska, why is it crapping out in Saskatchewan???That is good to hear. I have a retired buddy with an AWD Matrix XR. No complaints but he currently is in Mexico, without the Matrix .I am convinced that GM would hate to see your problem on TV. They have had their chance so go for it.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (Frosty)

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:21 am
by pmh013
I am making an inquiry to Canadian Driver now.We'll see if I get a response.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (Salsa!)

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 3:46 am
by pmh013
Thanks, Salsa!! I'll add them to the list of people to email. It's hard getting work done at work when you're trying to fight GM at the same time. I have a feeling I'll be camped out in front of the computer all night tonight, and for many nights to come.I can't wait to hear back from Transport Canada!!By the way, I didn't keep all my gas receipts because I noticed a problem, it's just because I'm (removed) retentive and I keep everything. Wanna see my receipt for rent from March of 1997? I still have it.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 4:09 am
by Frosty
quote:I'm now a member of 3 Vibe/Matrix forums: this one, matrixvibe.net and matrixowners.com. I haven't been getting as much response from the other 2 as I had hoped, but this could all take time. Try http://www.gminsidenews.com They have a forum of GM Fans, they may have some avenues for you....Now you have lots of homework. Be sure to keep us posted.

Re: calling all cold weather drivers!! (pmh013)

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2003 4:12 am
by Frosty
quote:I'm (removed) retentive and I keep everything. So, when did you notice this problem?Tell us about your childhood.Did you have issues surrounding loss? Letting things go?How did your potty training go? Just kidding!