GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

I bought a used '03 vibe AWD last February and amazingly it didn't snow significantly here in Boston for a full year. Then it snowed last week. Now my car is parked on the street, the two front tires in 4 inches of icy snow. But because of melting, the two rear tires are on dry ground, so I thought, "Great, all-wheel drive should get me out of this, no problem." Well, it seems like the AWD doesn't work. My front tires spin in the ice and my rear wheels don't move at all. Is there something I need to do to enable the all-wheel drive? Or did I get sold a defective car that needs the AWD repaired?Thanks for your help.

it's full-time AWD, nothing to turn on. you might have a bad differential. only way to check is to raise the entire car, and see if everything turns as it should.

Are you sure you have an AWD? You might want to look under the back bumper and make sure you have a rear Differential. Seems kinda strange that the rear tires wouldn't move at all, and the front tires just spin.

if both front tires are spinning then i'd have to say it is awd....a fwd vibe would only have the front passenger wheel spinning in this situation.

Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »it's full-time AWD, nothing to turn on. you might have a bad differential. only way to check is to raise the entire car, and see if everything turns as it should.Actually it is AWD on demand not full-time AWD. It only activates using a viscous coupler if the front wheels are spinning. Sounds like you need to bring it in to have the AWD looked at. I can spin all 4 wheels in the snow.

Quote, originally posted by Atomb »if both front tires are spinning then i'd have to say it is awd....a fwd vibe would only have the front passenger wheel spinning in this situation.lol bunch of confusing information here... but I know on icy roads I can very easily get BOTH my FWD front tires to spin.

Quote, originally posted by Mavrik »lol bunch of confusing information here... but I know on icy roads I can very easily get BOTH my FWD front tires to spin.Yeah, me too. The only way one doesn't spin is if one is stuck.

huh...last time i was stuck in snow, only one wheel was doing the spinning....strange.

If one tire is gripping, and one is slipping, then only the one slipping wheel will spin.If neither wheel can gain traction, both will spin.

Sounds like your diffy is not working right if at all. Time to go to the shop.

I had the same thought as Jeremy, make sure the car is really an AWD. If it is, then I would suspect the problem is the viscous coupling, since I don't see how any of the other directly geared parts would fail in such a way that the rear wheels would get zero torque and still freewheel.

That rear differential is an expensive fix. I had mine replaced and I think it set me back ~CDN$3000. They can't just replace one part or the other, because the dealership can't align the gears the way the manufacturer can. So, it's a plug-and-play deal ... replace the whole shot or nothing at all

AWD on the Vibe and others with VC type setup don't always respond the way one would expect them to. I don't have AWD on my Vibe but I am on my 3rd Toyota with AWD. Before you go chasing down unnecessary repairs I would try to do a side by side comparision with another AWD Vibe. I bet when put into the same situation they both react the same. I know this test is not always easy to set up but it is better than paying for unnecessary diagnostics/repairs.

I was trying to climb a snowy hill last winter when the same thing happened. Front wheels spun and rear wheels did nothing. Actually, it happened again in the Autumn at a pumpkin farm. I backed up and sank the rear wheels into some soft muddy grass. Hitting the acccelerator, even gradually resulted in spinning the front tires with no movement in the rear tires. A couple of friendly people had to rock the car out as I pumped the accelerator.~Rolan

a viscous coupling is not a "direct" ie "mechanical" link to the rear end.......in the old days we used a silicon fluid, may have changed now.http://auto.howstuffworks.com/different ... CTest.html The afternoon brought the surprise treat of the day; The Matrix, Toyota’s offering of “A new kind of car for a new kind of driver”.This cross-over utility vehicle claims to combine the spirit of a sports car at the price of a compact sedan with the 4WD versatility and style of an SUV. Our first test was a short drag race, pitting the 6-speed manual transmission against the four speed 4WD V-Flex automatic.In normal operation, V-Flex 4WD operates exactly like front-wheel drive. When the system detects slippage of a front wheel, the unique viscous coupling unit ahead of the rear differential transfers torque to the rear. When both front wheels have reclaimed traction, all power is once again directed to the front. This works so well, we couldn’t feel the high tech shifting as it was totally undetectable during the driving experience.Evidence of the V-Flex 4WD’s effectiveness was evident in two ways. First, in a chase to the finish line, and second in the tracks the Matrix left behind.To demonstrate grip, a short drag strip was covered with sand. While the 6-peed manual Matrix produced more horsepower and torque, it lost the race every time due to the traction control of the 4WD V-Flex system. Upon closer examination of the sand, we could actually see tracks of where the V-Flex system transferred power from the front to the rear wheels.To further impress us, a soaking wet, sand spattered, obstacle course was provided where once again the 4WD V-Flex automatic Matrix was pitted against the 6-speed manual.It became obvious, as the green flag was waved and the chase began that this traction system provides control, speed and handling which could not be matched with traditional front wheel drive technology.We were instructed to “Get in the car, drive as fast as you can and try to catch the other guy.” I needed little encouragement to complete this part of our day. Now that’s an assignment I am always up for.As the day came to a close, the vehicles were covered in mud, sand and various other outdoor markings. By everyone’s account, the day was a success.Toyota’s extensive line up may well provide one stop shopping for most SUV consumers. From the entry level RAV4 and Matrix, to the upper end Lexus LX470, the quality and capabilities of these vehicles is very hard to beat.Thanks Toyota Canada! It was a great day.http://www.toyota.cahttp://www.lexus.ca

I have an '06 AWD Vibe and had the same problem. The front wheels spin on ice and the rear wheels do nothing.It took 2 sessions for my dealer to diagnose the problem. They put it on a rack with all the wheels off the ground, started the engine and put the transmission in gear. All the wheels started turning, but they could grab hold of the rear wheels and they would stop turning. The problem is the viscous coupling inside the rear end--about an $1800 repair.

yes my friends matrix rear diff just had to be replaced... but it made noises so it "warned" her of the failure

We that is not very good news for me. Almost five years have passed and I have lived with this problem and also poor mileage (20mpg! which I suspect is related). Each time I had brought the car in for service they denied any problems. Did your dealer specify exactly what the failure was? Also, I wonder if I could get this problem fixed under warranty since I have been complaining about the issue as early as 3 weeks after taking delivery of the new vehicle.

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »yes my friends matrix rear diff just had to be replaced... but it made noises so it "warned" her of the failureHmmm...for how much drifting I do in he winter, I should have my rear end serviced. I'll have to see if I can find someone to do it for cheap.

I was experiencing the same problem, didn't seem like rear wheels were producing any torque. I contacted the dealer I purchased it from used, took it to them and they said it is fine. They did the same test, raise up on rack, and all 4 wheels spin. I explained to try to stop the back wheels and they could with the parking brake but didn't see how this would matter. This is a Nissan dealer so I don't think they really understand how this AWD system works. He said he called GM and Toyota and they both said it was working as intended. I took it to the Nissan dealer because the car is still under warranty through them. So it snowed again and I took the car and my driver "wife" to a unplowed parking lot with about 6 inches of untouched snow. Well to my surprise, I did see the back wheel spin once, but only once after several attempts and about 15 minutes of testing. Then we did another test. Tried the AWD vibe on an icy, pretty steep hill, front wheels spun, rear wheel did not spin and the car mad it up, reasonably well, starting in the middle of the hill. Then my wife had the brilliant idea to get our front wheel drive 2007 Sentra and try the identical test on it. Same hill, started in the middle, nothing but the right wheel spinning and the car actually slid backwards down the hill while the front right wheel spins. So, it seems that the rear wheels are getting some power but seems like the viscous coupling is still not working perfectly, seems like it is slipping and not locking as it should. So I called a Toyota dealer, explained to the service manager what was going on, he didn't really know anything. He said bring it in and he has a certain technician that would know about this type of issue. I am taking it to them tonight. Of course I want to talk to the technician before he looks at it, to make sure he isn't going to just put it on the rack and let the wheels spin then charge me $50. I will update later when I am done at the Toyota dealer

Looking forward to it!Also any DYI servicing tips would be nice!

Quote, originally posted by zionzr2 »Looking forward to it!Also any DYI servicing tips would be nice!i did a write up on how to change the fluids, other than that there isn't much that can be diy.

Took the Vibe to Toyota dealer, told them the issue, about 45 minutes later, they tell me the rear differential is bad and needs to be replaced, $1700 estimate. So luckily I purchased an extended warranty and they are going to contact me tomorrow after they contact the warranty company. Now I mentioned to the service manager that I have always heard a whining noise coming from the rear, guessing the differential and when the technician had it up on the rack, and wheels spinning he knew the differential was bad, by the sound it was making. So, the Ponitiac dealer and the Nissan dealer both kind of blew off the complaint of the differential noise as it "Was Normal". Toyota had the solution. More to follow.

Well, the extended warranty company will only let you use it at the dealer you bought it from if you are within 40 miles of the dealer, and if you are out of the 40 miles the selling dealer has to approve it. So I am taking it back to the Nissan dealer Tuesday. I looked at the Toyota diagnostic and they said the drove it on snow and the rear differential is not engaging, also when raised on the rack it is making noise, suggest a differential replacement. As I understand it the differential engages by the viscous coupling. So I guess there are a bunch of idiots around here. I am going to print out some information and give to Nissan when I take it in Tuesday, the type of AWD system the vibe has, how the viscous coupling works etc. I hope that helps them and they fix it correctly.

Well, I had the rear diff replaced yesterday and it did remedy the 'whining' noise, they replaced it with a salvaged part, which is OK. No snow so hard to tell if AWD is working now, did spin the front wheels at a stop light to see if I could feel the rear wheels get power and it didn't seem like they did. Just filled the gas up after the repair, so I will see if mileage increases, hard to determine because it is much warmer now. I also had the intake gasket replaced, it was cracked and giving me a 'fuel mix too rich' error, check engine light. I found the TSB on this forum and gave it to the mechanic. I wonder if that would have affected my mileage that much? Since they replaced the differential with a salvaged part, I was wondering if I could find a salvaged Viscous Coupling, no luck but I have a feeling it would be very reasonable because to replace the diff on my Vibe the bill was only around $175 including parts and labor, seemed very reasonable considering the $3000 I was quoted for a new one at Toyota. I jacked up the rear of my car last night to check for leaks and check the work. It doesn't seem like a very big job to replace the VC. If I could find a salvaged one for around $100 I would attempt it.It makes me curious how the rear diff and the VC both went bad on my used car. All I could think of was that someone had it towed with the rear wheels on the ground, which would engage the VC, destroying it and damaging the rear diff. Anyone have any thoughts on that?

#1- I hate aftermarket extended warranty companies... have to take to the selling dealer, using used parts... they suck. BUT it is better then you paying full pop for it.#2- Quote, originally posted by abyssvibeawd »It makes me curious how the rear diff and the VC both went bad on my used car. All I could think of was that someone had it towed with the rear wheels on the ground, which would engage the VC, destroying it and damaging the rear diff. Anyone have any thoughts on that?I hope it was... cause I don't have extended warranty and I don't want to put a new diff in#3- I am changing my AWD fluids this weekend

Can-awd-vibe,Does your AWD work or are you having the same issues as I am? What are your symptoms?

I found this perfect explaination of the Matris/Vibe AWD system with diagrams.

Attached files vflexful.pdf (85.3 KB) 

Had another big snow and AWD still not working. Took video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RuEgDMuukew

Thanks for the video. That is exactly one mine does. It would exemplify the problem even better if you tried to drive up a slight incline to show the rear wheels not moving at all even with continuous rotation of the front wheels. The snow season is over around here but I was thinking of rigging some sort of roller skate contraption for my front wheels and trying to drive up the driveway at the dealership to prove my point. They either turned a blind eye towards the problem or legitimately are unable to reproduce it on the lifts in their garage.

It is hard to tell, I am thinking of showing this video to the dealer, but I might just wait until next winter, it is so much work, and I am sure they are tired of me by now. I wish there was a technical service bulletin or something that would prove to the service centers that there is a problem. Did you see the video on youtube about the Subaru AWD system compared to the others? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooQRxlChvMw They show the Highlander and the back wheels don't seem to get enough power to the rear wheels, although I have seen another youtube video with the Highlander in the snow and the rear wheels do spin.

I would recommend not waiting. The guys at GM service said one of the reasons they wouldn't offer any leniency beyond the warranty period is because I waited a period of time before returning to them about the problem. Also, they did not document my complaints on their records. Luckily I saved the copies of my service records so I do have printed evidence that the car was brought in for poor mileage and also checks for AWD performance. I have a feeling that once enough of these videos are put out and the pot gets stirred enough, a technical service bulletin "may" get released to repair these 2004 Vibes with faulty viscous couplings. I may just be a conspiracy theorist, but there could be some internal friction at GM against releasing such a TSB because the repair job is very very costly and does not involve serious safety liabilities like the shattering window problem (it's simply a powertrain malfunction!) Meanwhile, every 20 minutes I hear a commercial on the radio about "GM quality" and how they stand behind it with a 5 year/100,000 mi powertrain warranty. I must have been dealing with a totally different GM company when I bought my "new" Vibe 5 years ago!

Sorry to revive an old thread, but it was the one with the most accurate information and addresses my question the best...

Has this ever been figured out? I am about to purchase a 2005 AWD vibe but feel like I am walking into a poor MPG broken AWD car before I even buy it. I have no way to check the mpg in a test drive, nor can I test the AWD functionality.

This purchase would be from a very small dealer.

I also have the ability to scrap the deal for the vibe and take an offer I have for a 2005 Subaru forester with 10k less miles for $1000 more. Yes I'm losing 3-4 mpg, but at least the AWD should work.

So does anyone know if the 2005's have the same problem you all are complaining about with the 2004s?

The easiest way to simply test the AWD is to place the spare tire jack just behind the left front, jack up the car until the entire left side is off the ground, chock both right side wheels, release the e-brake, start the car, turn off the traction control and put it in drive. If the AWD system works properly both left side tires should be spinning at idle speed. You can also listen to the rear diff while it's spinning.

The owner of said vehicle may not like this kind of experiment, though...

I have the same problem. In light or heavy snow, only one front wheel spins. Previous owner was told the rear dif was bad per the assessment of a dealer shop. I question that assessment, though I have no way of knowing. The car is horrible in snow, even the slightest dusting.

Is the viscous coupling a common problem with these symptoms? If so, is it a doable DIY?

thanks.

romeroom wrote:I have the same problem. In light or heavy snow, only one front wheel spins. Previous owner was told the rear dif was bad per the assessment of a dealer shop. I question that assessment, though I have no way of knowing. The car is horrible in snow, even the slightest dusting.

Is the viscous coupling a common problem with these symptoms? If so, is it a doable DIY?

thanks.

Interesting, most FWD normally do well in snow. My AWD Trix is a beast. Are your tires OK? If the read diff is bad are you hearing any noise (a whine normally)?

Tires are brand new. There is a little bit of a whine coming from the back.

I'd say have someone video you while doing donuts is a parking lot of fresh snow. See if the wheels are spinning, if not you have something bad wrong with it. It could be in the transfer car, drive shaft rear diff....who knows. Have you ever inspected for seals in the rear diif or check the fluid?

Running into the same problem as everyone on m 03 vibe. Back tired don't spin unless the car is in the air and there is not any pressure on them. Which makes me think the rear diff is bad. But from past experiences I always thought if a diff went bad then t would make a howling sound. Mine doesn't. Any ideas?

So you had someone watch it while you were driving?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIBCbdcAeJA" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah they don't spin at all. I have gotten them to before but I would say 99% of the time they don't

AustinRands wrote:Yeah they don't spin at all. I have gotten them to before but I would say 99% of the time they don't

Have you tried opening and looking at the ring gear, maybe running a pattern? It's not too hard to do that. Sometimes you can just open the cover and see the problem.

Like this!:

This link may give you some idea of what is needed to replace coupling. The service bulletin is about changing the coupling bearings and has a break down of the rear end assembly.

http://www.toyotapart.com/ABNORMAL_NOIS ... 002-07.pdf

I have just purchased an '06 Matrix AWD for an amazingly good price. I fear I may have discovered why. On first impressions, it looks like the AWD may not be working, will try to confirm today.

First off, let me say that, while I am new to the Matrix/Vibe, I am not new to viscous coupler 4wd systems. My Honda Civic Wagon RT4WDs use a VC in the propeller shaft and I have successfully rebuilt one of them. I have been examining the diagrams for the viscous coupler used on the M/V and there may be a DIY for this problem. If the rear diff is not howling or producing other symptoms, the VC is the most likely culprit as it is the only non-mechanical link in the drive. From the diagrams, it appears that removal of the VC is not that difficult. Rebuilding a VC is not rocket science, the hardest part was finding the correct silicone fluid and identifying and sourcing the seals.

Alternatively, STE Couplers rebuilds and sells rebuilt VCs.
http://stecouplers.com/
http://stores.ebay.com/STE-Couplers?_tr ... 7675.l2563


Once I have more info, I will post.

Edit: I tested the AWD while having the snow tires installed. With the car up on the lift, I started the engine and put it in gear, then, with all 4 wheels spinning, I engaged the e-brake. The rear wheels stopped, the front wheels stopped momentarily, the started spinning very slowly. This suggests that the VC is weak. If it was fully functional, the front wheels would remain stopped like the rear.

I have been talking with Dave at STE. He was unaware that our cars used a VC, but said if I could send him a dead one he would assess the rebuild potential. Need to find a VC to send him. Anyone have one?

Further Edit: Follow-up real-world testing on the Matrix. With a fresh 4 in. of snow, I tried to climb my driveway (unpaved and way too steep for fwd when there's snow) and my neighbor's driveway (paved and even steeper than mine). It motored right up both without hesitation or tire spin (with studded snow tires). Perhaps the slippage I saw was by design, less than 50/50 power distribution.

Craig

Here's a video showing removal and replacement of the VC bearings. The procedure would be the same for the VC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GOd40uoc1SU

I would recommend doing the bearings while doing the VC.