GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

I recently purchased a fiberglass ram-air hood from SLP and it came with a functional ram air package and I was just wondering if any Vibe owners have installed this package. I am interested in putting in this package because I have an Injen CAI installed right now and even though the performance is great, the CEL it's giving me drives me nuts!!! If the performance difference is miniscule I would rather have the Ram Air because of the CEL.So my questions are: Who's installed the ram air package?Do you like/recommend it?Would the Injen or Ram Air provide more power?Thanks and any feedback is much appreciated.

ram air seems more efficient for you. and you could install a short ram that wont give you a cell.hijack:your in simi??? im in T.O.you should stop by IN&OUT tomorrow night at 8:30pm off new la ave. and the 23.theres a meet for a bunch of cars.

I think you'd gain more if you went Short ram with a heat shield and a hole so the ram air hood pipes the cold air right to the top of the short ram filter.

If you go to SEARCH and type in ram air, you'll get a bunch of posts.

Thanks for the feedback everyone, I think the Ram Air probably is the best way to go.First of all I did do a search but there didnt seem to be anyone who wrote anything up about how their Ram Air was hooked up, it only comes with some tubing and an air filter so I'm not sure how this is supposed to be connected, even though I saw a post say i might have to cut a whole in the air box...My question would be then, how do you install this setup?Oh yeah and Mrizzle I think I've been by the meet you're talking about... It's mostly Subies and a few Evo's right?

ihave a ram air hood with cold air intake also just make the hood blow all of the air on you intake (not the cold air the sock intake ) it works good for me you will see that the motor will stay cooler then when you have it just blowing on your air box

Can't help with regard to a ram air hood, 'cause I don't have one. My ram air intake is in the front of the car, utilizing the high pressure air ahead of the grille. Somehow, someway, you've got to figure out how to seal the hood scoops to the intake and still be able to raise and lower the hood. If it's not sealed to the intake, you don't get the ram air effect. If you run a short ram and it is not sealed to the ram air hood, you still get hot, under-hood air and no ram air effect 'cause the intake has to be in the high pressure air stream and sealed.Maybe you could cut a hole in the bottom of the stock filter box and use a tube and foam to seal the hood (when closed) to the filter box. Good luck and let us know how it works out.

the ram air hood pipes the air to right above your stock air box and has a circular cut out..what your supposed to do is cut the circle part on the top of the air box and that is supposed to be the direct ram air setup. but with a short ram air intake ( replacing the stock intake) I feel would benefit more from the smooth tubing and larger air filter.

yeah thats it... but the first time (last week) i went ther were about 10 other cars, GTO, acuras, honduhs, and a cool looking vibe And tonight i got about 3-4 corolla buddies coming aswell. so there will be about 10 of us there. subies, rollas, vibe, honduh. (that i know)If you wanna come IM me and ill give you my number so we can meet.

Quote, originally posted by northvibe »the ram air hood pipes the air to right above your stock air box and has a circular cut out..what your supposed to do is cut the circle part on the top of the air box and that is supposed to be the direct ram air setup. but with a short ram air intake ( replacing the stock intake) I feel would benefit more from the smooth tubing and larger air filter.If you cut out the top of the stock air box, how do you get FILTERED air to the engine?The intake system ahead of the throttle body is NOT a restriction, it's the blade inside the throttle body that is the restriction, that's how engine speed is varied, by restricting the air flow. Once the throttle body is wide open, the valves in the cylinder head become the restriction. Virtually any intake system and filter ahead of the throttle body will flow more air than the engine can possibly draw, especially when the throttle is not wide open. If the intake ahead of the throttle body was a restriction, the system would always be in a 'choke mode' and causing a rich running condition.Most modern factory intakes are plastic, not metal, because the plastic absorbs far less heat than metal, especially chrome plated metal. Most factory intakes also have the air inlet as far away from engine heat as possible in order to gain the benefits of cooler intake air. My ScanGuage shows the intake air temp is virtually identical to ambient temp shown on the instrument panel.A ram air system must be sealed in order to maintain a slightly higher air pressure ahead of the throttle body, when the vehicle is at speed. A turbo or SC must be sealed or it won't build pressure ahead of the throttle body either.

To answer the question - ram air (not necessarily a hood) will always be better than just a CAI. Ram air is both, as long as it is sealed.

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »If you cut out the top of the stock air box, how do you get FILTERED air to the engine?The intake system ahead of the throttle body is NOT a restriction, it's the blade inside the throttle body that is the restriction, that's how engine speed is varied, by restricting the air flow. Once the throttle body is wide open, the valves in the cylinder head become the restriction. Virtually any intake system and filter ahead of the throttle body will flow more air than the engine can possibly draw, especially when the throttle is not wide open. If the intake ahead of the throttle body was a restriction, the system would always be in a 'choke mode' and causing a rich running condition.Most modern factory intakes are plastic, not metal, because the plastic absorbs far less heat than metal, especially chrome plated metal. Most factory intakes also have the air inlet as far away from engine heat as possible in order to gain the benefits of cooler intake air. My ScanGuage shows the intake air temp is virtually identical to ambient temp shown on the instrument panel.A ram air system must be sealed in order to maintain a slightly higher air pressure ahead of the throttle body, when the vehicle is at speed. A turbo or SC must be sealed or it won't build pressure ahead of the throttle body either. What are you smokin'? Puff, puff, pass, dude! Of course the stock intake is a restriction. Tiny tubes, lots of bends, crappy paper air filter. There's ton's of dyno's that prove a cai or sr is way more efficiant than stock.The stock air filter sits above the tube that runs to the TB, so air is drawn through the filter with the SLP hood.Don't understand what your saying about the turboed and sc being sealed. Of course they'er sealed, how else would you build boost? If your using the SLP hood, sealed stock airbox, and with a K&N drop in filter, you should have the same advantages as a cai. Don't expect to see ANY gains from ram air, though. It's only 'effective' when your at speeds over 100mph. And it's only about 1-3hp at best.

Quote, originally posted by Lancer »The stock air filter sits above the tube that runs to the TB, so air is drawn through the filter with the SLP hood.yeah, that's what I thought. Just cuz u cut a whole out from the top of the stock air box, doesn't mean ur removing the filter. The filter would just be directly underneath that cutout.That stinks that it doesn't give any real signifcant gains in power I didn't know that, but it makes sense

Quote, originally posted by Lancer »What are you smokin'? Puff, puff, pass, dude! Of course the stock intake is a restriction. Tiny tubes, lots of bends, crappy paper air filter. There's ton's of dyno's that prove a cai or sr is way more efficiant than stock.The stock air filter sits above the tube that runs to the TB, so air is drawn through the filter with the SLP hood.Don't understand what your saying about the turboed and sc being sealed. Of course they'er sealed, how else would you build boost? If your using the SLP hood, sealed stock airbox, and with a K&N drop in filter, you should have the same advantages as a cai. Don't expect to see ANY gains from ram air, though. It's only 'effective' when your at speeds over 100mph. And it's only about 1-3hp at best. Could you share with us some dyno numbers proving a cai or sr is way more efficient than stock? Just one or two, we don't need a ton.Guess my Vibe is different from others. My air filter sits below the tube that runs to the TB. Air enters the base of the box, flows up through the filter, then continues it's upward flow to the tube that goes to the TB.Someone had posted about directing cool air via a tube at the air filter on a sr and was referring to it as ram air. That is why I was saying to achieve ram air, the system must be sealed. So your saying don't waste money on a ram air hood 'cause you'll only gain 1-3 hp over what a cai would produce. Ram air is a cai but a cai is not necessarily ram air.

I apologize, I was wrong. First dyno shows 8 hp gain @ 6300 rpm where virtually none of us drive and the ones that do, don't drive there very long. But at 3000-3500 rpm where most of us do drive, most of the time, the chart indicates 1, maybe 2 hp increase. That's impressive and again, I do apologize.The second dyno is even more impressive with 12 hp gain @ 7400 rpm but once again where most of us drive, 3000-3500 rpm, it appears to be a 0 hp gain. Now that's really impressive.I guess these two dyno runs do prove that a cai or sr is way more efficient than stock, just not at the rpm range we drive in 99.999% of the time.

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »Guess my Vibe is different from others. My air filter sits below the tube that runs to the TB. Air enters the base of the box, flows up through the filter, then continues it's upward flow to the tube that goes to the TB.ooooo, I just assumed that the filter would be both above and below the opening to the tube. my badlol, I honestly spend some fair amount time in that upper rpm range. But that is just the build of our car, that it's made to show the big numbers in that rpm range. That is why the GT's have lift, and there are very few mods out there that will help with the low rpm range power.

Quote, originally posted by tcam »ooooo, I just assumed that the filter would be both above and below the opening to the tube. my badlol, I honestly spend some fair amount time in that upper rpm range. But that is just the build of our car, that it's made to show the big numbers in that rpm range. That is why the GT's have lift, and there are very few mods out there that will help with the low rpm range power.Your the exception. You only drive at lower rpm 99.99% of the time.

i dont see the obligatory *sarcasm* in your post so I will assume you are being a jerk.please don't drag me into you little pissing match dj. I was going to agree with you that cutting a hole in the airbox would be a bad idea as it WOULD be unfiltered air straight into the throttle body.But you are incorrect in saying the oem piping before the tb is not being restrictive. Plastic may heat up less but airflow is still airflow. 3" pipe is better then 2". And yes creating turbulence with ribs on the air tube is not helpful... rather it does inhibit. Smooth is better... in any "high-flow" situation.I would say that your "ram air" idea is good... i thought it was when I saw your fog light cut out in another post. i even remember mis-spelling clever. I was going jack the idea then.IMO the Injen CAI with your little foglight cut-out with a little tube "feeding" the CAI filter would be the best of both worlds.I doubt very highly that your ram air/cai w/k&n is any better then the dynos I provided at your request. Maybe worse on a dyno as you would be standing still and therefore loose the RAM.

Quote, originally posted by CAN-AWD-VIBE »i dont see the obligatory *sarcasm* in your post so I will assume you are being a jerk.please don't drag me into you little pissing match dj. I was going to agree with you that cutting a hole in the airbox would be a bad idea as it WOULD be unfiltered air straight into the throttle body.But you are incorrect in saying the oem piping before the tb is not being restrictive. Plastic may heat up less but airflow is still airflow. 3" pipe is better then 2". And yes creating turbulence with ribs on the air tube is not helpful... rather it does inhibit. Smooth is better... in any "high-flow" situation.I would say that your "ram air" idea is good... i thought it was when I saw your fog light cut out in another post. i even remember mis-spelling clever. I was going jack the idea then.IMO the Injen CAI with your little foglight cut-out with a little tube "feeding" the CAI filter would be the best of both worlds.I doubt very highly that your ram air/cai w/k&n is any better then the dynos I provided at your request. Maybe worse on a dyno as you would be standing still and therefore loose the RAM. Wow! I've gone from being accused of smoking something to being called names. As I stated in my previous post, I apologize, I was wrong, don't mean to offend any of the great members fo GenVibe.You're correct about a 3" tube being able to flow more than a 2" but not in the case of Vibe. The engineers that designed the 1.8 and it's components determined that a 2" tube (or whatever size it is) would flow more air than the engine could draw 99.999% of the time. My Saturn Vue V6 has a 4" tube (approx.) because the engineers calculated that a 2" or 3" tube wouldn't be large enough to flow the amount of air the 3.5 could draw. Again the first restriction is the TB and then the valves in the head. I guess we're both right, the dyno numbers prove it as there's virtually no gain below 5000 rpm, where most driving is done, and only a small gain at virtually redline rpm. I'm not using a K&N air filter, never have, never will. You couldn't give me a truck load of oiled cotton gauze and wire filters. There is hard evidence that with the increased air flow, there is decreased dirt filtration. Good at the track but not on the street.The only winners are the aftermarket marketing departments that relieve us of our hard earned dollars because the info (hype) contained in there ads sounds so good, it just has to be true.

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »I apologize, I was wrong. First dyno shows 8 hp gain @ 6300 rpm where virtually none of us drive and the ones that do, don't drive there very long. But at 3000-3500 rpm where most of us do drive, most of the time, the chart indicates 1, maybe 2 hp increase. That's impressive and again, I do apologize. you asked for a dyno and I gave you one... then you come back with this? It's not name calling, it's how you were acting. It's not meant to hurt your feelings... it's to let you know how you are coming off to me.bottom line... more airflow is better. colder air is better. I do agree with not sacrificing filtration vs. airflow... but more is better.you do what you want dj... I like your ram air/cai setup... I also like bluecrush's use of the sc tubing and what he has going on. I'm going to draw air through a similar hole in my bumper and have it feed my Injen CAI. Taking a page right from your book. Thanks for the idea.It all works and it's all better then stock and really thats all this whole industry is based on. On this side of it, to me anyway. If I pay for a little bling along the way, I'm good with it.

Quote, originally posted by CAN-AWD-VIBE »you asked for a dyno and I gave you one... And I appreciate the dyno you provided, because you proved my point that an expensive aftermarket intake provides little or no benefit, at the rpm range we drive at 99.999% of the time, just bling.Again, I apologize and that's the 3rd time. I didn't realize anyone here needed to be coddled or my statements needed to be sugar-coated.

Play nice guys. haha. DJ: It did sound sincere and sarcastic at the same time. CAV: No name calling, you big dummy! lol.I am loving the S/C tubing. Acceleration is so much smoother and quieter now. It's like I have a new car again. If I had the money and time and practicality I would install a ram-air hood and have it along with my S/C tubing for the best of both worlds. Would it give a lot more power? No, but it would look cool! It would just not be practical for me to have to change hoods every season since you should not run the CF or FG hood in wintertime.FlynHwian: For you, I would go with the Ram-Air setup. You should be golden. BTW, do you know what the CEL code is that you are getting. Sounds like it might be the P0420 (O2 Sensor low effiency) code.Good luck! Post some pics when you are done.

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush »Play nice guys. haha. DJ: It did sound sincere and sarcastic at the same time. CAV: No name calling, you big dummy! lol.I am loving the S/C tubing. Acceleration is so much smoother and quieter now. It's like I have a new car again. If I had the money and time and practicality I would install a ram-air hood and have it along with my S/C tubing for the best of both worlds. Would it give a lot more power? No, but it would look cool! It would just not be practical for me to have to change hoods every season since you should not run the CF or FG hood in wintertime.FlynHwian: For you, I would go with the Ram-Air setup. You should be golden. BTW, do you know what the CEL code is that you are getting. Sounds like it might be the P0420 (O2 Sensor low effiency) code.Good luck! Post some pics when you are done. I think the ram air hood is a great idea and, if hooked-up correctly, will provide more benefit than just a cai. Like BC said, post some pics and good luck.

Wow, I leave for a few days and my thread takes off, haha!Lots of great info guys, DJB: The hood came with a filter that fits in the hole where the hood channels the air, so it's like a short ram thats angled upwards. So even if I did cut a hole in my intake box the air would still be filtered, it just would have to be sealed like you said, so that would be the dilema. Bluecrush: First of all, I live in Cali so there's no real winter here, so the fiberglass should be fine. Second, youre using supercharger tubing for your intake? So you're using the s/c tubing kind of like a CAI, but I already have an Injen CAI installed, I'm just wondering if the Ram Air will be an advantage. Oh yeah, and the engine code I get is p2441 cuz of the smog sensor the Injen CAI doesn't accomodateHowever, looking at the parts they sent me to set this up leaves me underwhelmed because its gonna look pretty ghetto under the hood if I have to cut into my stock airbox and have this rubber tube sticking straight up with a filter on the end...What if I just got a short ram and angled it upwards to fit inside the hole in the hood? Would the air that came in through the hood help at all?Here's some pics of the hood after it got back back from the shop, the sweetest thing about this hood is it was free (Thanks to the guy who backed up into my last hood...)

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Ram air will probably get a little less power than a properly designed CAI that can be resonance tuned. It may be a bit better than a short ram because the air supply should be cooler. The ram part of ram air hood is a misnomer as the velocities of air into the hood are negligible compared to those in the intake. The stock box on the GT isn't as restrictive as stated. The butterfly opens at about 3800 RPM to allow more air in. Over 1/2 the gains from a CAI are from correcting the rich condition at WOT and high RPM by good MAF placement. The rich stock condition is to protect the CAT and motor from excessive heat in prolonged high RPM use. The intakes make less power in a GT below about 3500 RPM due to inefficient cylinder fill without some intake restriction at lower RPMs. On GTs, people with Unichips get the about same HP as those with CAIs and no Unichip. Add a CAI and they see just a few more at peak but never have as much low RPM power as a stock intake. Unless you like the sound, you'd prefer just the chip unless you race. Of course the chip costs a lot more and a CAI is the cheapest way to get any significant HP but throttle response is a less crisp beow 3.5k.

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe »Ram air will probably get a little less power than a properly designed CAI that can be resonance tuned. I may be a bit better than a short ram because the air supply should be cooler. The ram part of ram air hood is a misnomer as the velocities of air into the hood are negligible compared to those in the intake. The stock box on the GT isn't as restrictive as stated. the butterfly opens at about 3800 RPM to allow more air in. over 1/2 the gains from a CAI are from correcting the rich condition at WOT and high RPM by good MAF placement. The rich stock condition is to protect the CAT and motor from excessive heat in prolonged high RPM use. The intakes make less power in a GT below about 3500 RPM due to inefficient cylinder fill without some intake restriction at lower RPMs. On GTs, people with Unichips get the about same HP as those with CAIs and no Unichip. Add a CAI and they see just a few more at peak but never have as much low RPM power as a stock intake. Unless you like than sound, you'd prefer just the chip unless you race. Of course the chip costs a lot more and a CAI is the cheapest way to get significant HP.Hum????????????? Wouldn't ram air provide both cold air (like a CAI) and also increased cylinder filling with high(er) air pressure, in the intake stream, as the vehicle builds speed?

Yes, cold air so better than a short ram but mid power can be better in a CAI by getting the tube perameters right. Like I said, your not ramming air. It's still negetive pressure at the intake when your looking for power and even the slightly lower resitance to pressure at low RPM and high vehicle speed won't stop some of the gasses from being blown out of the cylinder before the valves close like the stock intake helps. In a GT your doing over 3k RPM on the highway anyway. It takes a lot of pressure in a sealed system to get benefits over a CAI.

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe »Yes, cold air so better than a short ram but mid power can be better in a CAI by getting the tube perameters right. Like I said, your not ramming air. It's still negetive pressure at the intake when your looking for power and even the slightly lower resitance to pressure at low RPM and high vehicle speed won't stop some of the gasses from being blown out of the cylinder before the valves close like the stock intake helps. In a GT your doing over 3k RPM on the highway anyway. It takes a lot of pressure in a sealed system to get benefits over a CAI. I'm confused when you say "your not ramming air". As vehicle speed increases, air pressure in front of the vehicle increases as the vehicle pushes through the air. If the air intake is located at the front of the vehicle, in the air stream, then air is being "rammed" into the intake creating pressure that is slightly higher than atmospheric ahead of the throttle body, assuming the system is sealed.A ram air system is a CAI but a CAI is not necessarily a ram air. If the CAI is located behind a bumper or fender, then it is not taking advantage of the higher pressure air directly in front of the vehicle when traveling at speed, cool air yes but not high pressure air.

If the intake air velocity is 200mph and your doing 60 mph, the density of intake charge is increased a negligible amount. Nothing's getting rammed. The intake is still pulling air and creating negetive pressure at the input.

We had this discussion on the Grand Am boards MANY times. CAI will give you more power than either a short intake or RA. Reason being, cold air gives more power. For RA to work properly, you must be moving through the air for the air to make it in. At best, you may get 5 HP from RA. You will get more from a WAI and even more from a CAI.Yes, a RA hood, in sense, is a CAI, but dont forget it sits on top of a hot engine and by the time it gets to the intake, it's not as cold as it would be in a CAI.As you see on my GA, I have a RA hood but still have my WAI. One reason is the HP. Another is, I'm too lazy to make a custom RA box right now. LOL