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Ethanol Blends

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:07 am
by jake75
As part of another discussion I board I recently posted the following.Consumers buy "gasoline" to get from point A to point B. Given the fact that ethanol has less energy than pure gasoline consumers are sort of deceived where Station #1 is selling pure gasoline at $2.75, and Station #2 is selling E-10 at $2.72 and they pick station 2 because it is 3 cents less. E-10 should not be able to be called "gasoline" any more than "ham with 10% added water" canbe called "ham". Response from State Government Agency OfficialI don't believe your comment is fair. Gasoline is a commodity and is no different than mayonnaise or baked beans. It is not realistic for you to ascribe one value to it. There are often a multitude of factors that result in consumer choices.In the first place, no two batches of gasoline are identical, and ethanol is only one component that presently gets labeled. Each batchhas unique properties. Energy content is just one of those, as isoctane, additive packages, brand loyalty, convenience, and a host ofother things. Since we label the ethanol and the octane, and we measure the volume, consumers have information to make value comparisons. To suggest that energy content is the single factor that matters most seems to fly in the face of how the fuel has been sold for a very long time. We know that energy content in gasoline without ethanol variessignificantly and you can almost plot that versus the API gravity, i.e.density. We've seen legal ASTM gasoline (no ethanol) with API gravityanywhere between about 50 and 70 (that's a range from 5.8 to 6.5lb/gal). That's quite a range. The cost to measure and post energycontent per gallon on every batch would be staggering and almostimpossible at the retail level since there is so much commingling ofproducts from different batches over time. I don't believe that there is a scarcity of information on the energydifference with ethanol fuels. Consumers can take it into consideration.I think many consumers would be happy to buy a fuel that burns cleaner and is renewable. With labeling, that is a choice they can make, and a very valid choice that we should embrace. To begin with, this official calls gasoline a "commodity". A commodity is something that is the same. Examples are sugar and soybean oil that are traded on the commodity exchanges. Mayonnaise and baked beans are not commodities - various brands differ. So what he is trying to say is that gasolines are not a commodity - various brands differ. In my experience, finding the label that says "Contains 10% ethanol" and usually says "May contain up to 10% ethanol" is not easy. My point was that just like "ham with 10% added water" where the word "ham" must always be qualified by the disclosure of the addeed water, the words "with added ethanol" shoudl always accompany the word "gasoline". But what I really learned (if true) is that gasoline density varies betwwen 5.8 and 6.5 lbs per gallon, and the denser gasolibe provides more energy. If that is proportional, that's an 11% difference. The agricultural bias is also obvious - states support their corn growers. But I don't believe that is true statement in tersm of the real world.From what little subsequent reasearch I have done I believe that most gasoline is at the lower end of this range. You get more gallons of gas out of a barrel of oil at the lower densities. For that reason I do not think that the oil companies are operating their refineries to produce anything other than lower density gasoline. Also - gasoline is traded on the commodites exchange so I expect that this range" is theoretical and does not represent the real world. As for me - I still look for those ethanol disclosures and when possible go to stations that are selling gasoline without added ethanol.

Re: Ethanol Blends (jake75)

Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 1:57 am
by KNINE
Nice post. Here is a link that is from the U.S. government's own website. It compares the mileage of several gasoline vehicles compared to their E85 counterparts. If we think we're spending allot of money on gasoline, check out how much it costs to run on E85. I'll stick to gasoline for now.http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/byfueltype.htm

Re: Ethanol Blends (K-NINE)

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 5:16 am
by jake75
Does anyone know what specs the US Govt. uses for the gasoline they use to run their fuel economy tests? E.g. what desity of gasoline they specify? I am betting it is at the low end of that 5.8 to 6.5 lb/gal range.

Re: Ethanol Blends (jake75)

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 6:39 am
by 1oldbanjo
The EPA tests are run using a fuel called Indolene Clear. The test is done on a dyno and I understand the highway portion only averages 48 mph. It is no wonder they get so good of mileage. Do a search on EPA mileage ratings and you will find lots of reviews - I understand there is a big push to get more accurate numbers that do include wind resistance and AC and such as some rated mileages are off by 40 percent or more. Surprisingly the Vibe does very good considering how unrealistic the EPA tests are compared to real driving.Dave

Re: Ethanol Blends (1oldbanjo)

Posted: Tue Sep 12, 2006 11:18 am
by jake75
From an internet search - If your new car's actual fuel mileage does not match the fuel economy numbers on the window sticker, it's not necessarily your car's fault. Many owners of hybrid vehicles, such as this Toyota Prius, have complained because they are unable to achieve the same fuel economy reported by the EPA. The posted highway mileage for the Ford Explorer is 20 mpg. But the small print on the window sticker says the range could be as low as 17 mpg or as high as 23 mpg. Ten-year-old vehicles, such as this Oldsmobile Aurora, are unlikely to get the same fuel economy as they did when they were new. Underinflated tires can adversely affect your car's fuel mileage. Chances are you're watching the needle in the fuel gauge of your car a little more closely these days. And you're frustrated at the fuel economy you're seeing. Join the club. The fuel economy estimates for new cars, provided in large black type on window stickers, can overstate fuel mileage by as much as 34 percent, according to the Bluewater Network. The network is a California-based environmental group that petitioned the U.S. government more than two years ago to change the way fuel mileage is calculated. These estimates, mandated by the federal government starting in the 1970s, were never based on real-world driving. Instead, they're derived, sort of backhandedly, from emissions test procedures. And the process of developing the estimates has been updated only once, in 1985. Why the Focus Now?While some people considered gasoline to be affordable, many American drivers didn't notice—or care to make a fuss about—the inaccuracy of the fuel economy numbers. But after several years of gasoline and diesel price jolts, as well as an increasing awareness of the costs involved in getting oil from the Middle East, Americans are more interested than ever in the fuel economy they're getting. Or, as the case may be, the fuel economy that their vehicles are not getting. It's also easier today for a consumer to check a vehicle's fuel economy because many vehicles have electronics that automatically calculate fuel economy as they drive. This is especially true for gasoline-electric hybrid vehicles, where real-world fuel economy results are computed and prominently displayed on an ongoing basis. It has become such an issue, in fact, that some frustrated hybrid owners who aren't getting the fuel economy numbers posted on their window stickers have asked dealerships to "fix" their vehicles. They've also complained to automakers. Following Government RequirementsAutomakers may not be the ones to blame. The federal government decided not to overburden carmakers with multiple, costly tests from the start. In the 1970s, the government already required emissions testing by automakers for each new model. So measurements for fuel economy were piggybacked on the emissions testing, where companies could utilize the same test equipment. Current Testing DetailsThe emissions testing is based on a driving regimen conducted in labs. Because vehicles are stationary while being tested, they don't experience any real-world aerodynamic drag as they do on regular roads. During testing, the vehicles are on a dynamometer, where tires spin on rollers as a driver accelerates. It's sort of an automotive treadmill. In testing, only one person—the driver—is inside the vehicle. There's no extra weight as there is when the car, minivan or SUV is carrying more people or cargo. The test driver must accelerate, brake and idle the car according to a prescribed routine where the average city speed is about 20 miles an hour. Indeed, the city driving test cycle simulates an 11-mile, stop-and-go trip that takes 31 minutes and has 23 stops, the EPA says. About 18 percent of the time is spent idling, as if the car is at stoplights and in rush-hour traffic. The testing is conducted in controlled conditions, with ambient temperature between 68 degrees Fahrenheit and 86 degrees Fahrenheit. There's no simulation of wintry weather or hot desert climes. The highway portion—which the EPA also calls "non-city" because it incorporates travel on rural roads—is a 10-mile trip that averages 48 mph and has no stops, according to the EPA. The maximum speed is 60 mph, far below the 70- to 80-mph speed limits that drivers today encounter on interstates. The impacts of fuel-using accessories such as air conditioning and heating are not measured, because this equipment is not turned on during the test. Even daytime running lights, which have been estimated to use up to a tenth of gallon of fuel, aren't considered. The depletion of fuel isn't measured directly in this testing, either, and test vehicles don't use gasoline. They operate on a special laboratory fuel called indolene clear. It's a test fuel that's free of the variability in quality that can be found in gasoline, and it has just eight carbon atoms. As the vehicles run, emissions are collected from the tailpipes. Because the carbon content of the fuel is known, technicians calculate fuel economy by measuring the carbon compounds expelled in the exhaust. Automakers conduct the tests, using pre-production prototypes of their upcoming new vehicles, the EPA said. You can bet they make sure that anything that would lessen fuel economy—such as underinflated tires, misaligned wheels and poorly tuned engine—are fixed before the test. The EPA, which announces the top vehicle in fuel economy for each new model year, does its own testing in its own lab—to confirm the numbers from the automakers—on only 10 percent to 15 percent of new models. Lab vs. Real WorldAcknowledging that lab conditions don't reflect what drivers encounter in the real world, the EPA does allow the lab figures to be adjusted. The laboratory city value is multiplied by 0.90 and the highway value is multiplied by 0.78 after an agency study several years ago reported drivers on the roads get 90 percent of the EPA's city figure and 78 percent of the highway figure. But there are still plenty of drivers who complain they don't get anywhere near the official figures. This fact and the Bluewater Network petition have forced the EPA to look at updating these figures. The EPA isn't going to change the underlying emission test procedure. But it is considering more aggressive adjustment figures for city and highway mileage in the hopes of putting out more realistic fuel economy numbers by the 2008 model year. "The bottom line is in the real world, [fuel economy] is variable," said one official at General Motors Corp. "In general, all the different things that can affect fuel economy tend to make those numbers lower [than the EPA's]." What Affects Fuel Economy?Weather conditions, aerodynamic drag as a vehicle moves through the air, use of accessories, tire inflation and wheel alignment, the tuning of the engine, how much weight a vehicle is carrying, its speed and a driver's habits all play a role. For instance, driving up a mountain road with a 7 percent grade can cut fuel economy by as much as 25 percent. If tires aren't properly inflated, fuel economy can be cut by up to 6 percent, and misaligned wheels also decrease fuel economy, said one Ford engineer. And drivers who manage their driving habits—accelerating gradually, driving smoothly and with care—can boost fuel economy as much as 20 percent compared to a more aggressive driving style, the EPA says. Using the RatingIs there any reason to look at the fuel economy numbers on the window sticker? Yes. They can be a decent "relative measurement" for vehicle comparisons. Since all automakers use the same procedure, the numbers can be compared from one kind of vehicle to another to help shoppers get a relative sense of which vehicles are more fuel-efficient. But remember, there's no guarantee that a driver will reach an exact fuel economy number. And don't forget the fine print. Every window sticker also states the range of fuel economy that's e
xpected in a certain vehicle segment. It's in smaller print on the label. On a 2006 Ford Explorer 4X4 with V8, for instance, the label states that the city driving range could be as low as 11 mpg and as high as 17 mpg. Meantime, the big, black number on the sticker that catches a shopper's eye says city mpg is 14. The posted highway mileage for the same Explorer is 20 mpg. But the range, in the small print, says it could be as low as 17 mpg or as high as 23 mpg. And to be fair, even the biggest fuel economy numbers come with a caveat printed right by them: "Actual mileage may vary with options, driving conditions, driving habits and vehicle's condition." How to Get This InfoReaders can find official fuel mileage numbers at the government's Web site at http://www.fueleconomy.gov. It's easy to compare vehicles. Once you're on the Web site, click "Find and Compare Cars." There, at the left, you will be able to select a list of vehicles by their market class, which is basically the broad sales categories they fit into, or their official EPA size class. Also - from what I could find so far the "indolene clear " has a density of 0.73 which is 5.84 lbs per gal.