GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Sorry everyone, just venting a little. It's over 2 weeks now since my car was brought over to the dealership. For the pass several days, I've been told should be tomorow just missing a bolt or two, etc. I'm just wondering if you blow a head gasket and the engine gets fixed, do you need to replace all the bolts? Seems that these bolts are a must purchase item and has to be ordered. I'm thinking what happened to the old bolts? Is this some sort of ploy to delay the work and charge GM for more money for labor costs? I'm not trying to rush them, but I do wonder if they're just dilly dallying. I do want to get my car back, but at the same time I want to make sure these guys do a good job. Anyways, as I started off, just venting....I guess I should just be happy the fact that the car is getting repaired under warranty. Almost had to pay for this out of my pocket considering I had almost 1000KMs left on my warranty.

Sometimes, blowing a gasket will damage the head bolts. The bolts have to be an exact length +-.3mm. If they're not within those specs, they're supposed to be replaced. I think there are 10 bolts on the head.

They could also be replacing them as a precautionary measure...in the same way that some car enthusiasts change their thermostats or even O2 sensors, regardless if they're working properly or not. Preventative measures now could help avoid repeat problems -- or new ones -- down the road.

Thanks for all your comments. But I really think it's not the type of bolts that are necessary for internal part of the engine. They assured me that it was completed and that it was just missing one bolt. I kinda feel they are just holding on to it to bill GM more $$. I would think if it was completed already that the bolt they would be referring to would be an external part, hence I why I would think they are just dilly dallying. Although, I do have the courtesy car which I'm running kms on it, so I shouldn't be complaining. I just miss my car, at times I almost seem to forget that I even own a vibe. It's been that long.

Do you want the car back assembled properly and safely, or do you want it back quickly, with a risk of being a danger.Every bolt on the engine serves a purpose. If some could be eliminated as ways to cut costs, I believe strongly that GM (or in this case, Toyota) would have done that. With this in mind, I wouldn't take the car back if even ONE bolt from the engine was missing or damaged. Too much at risk. Let them finish the job right.

as I said....was venting out only because they had been promising the car back for quite some time. Of course I want the car back...but when is the question. And considering every part is being ordered on such time that when the car is supposed to be delivered, a new bolt is required. Yes, I do want the car back in perfect working condition, and hopefully even better than when I had it. But the dealer should really have better estimates and stop giving false hope.

I don't blame you for venting... Two weeks for a friggin' head gasket, that's beyond pathetic in my book. I don't see why it should take any longer than a couple days. Especially on a tiny four banger like these cars have... Unless they can't get parts, which is a very good possiblity...Hell, I had two intake gaskets go bad on the Malibu I owned before this Vibe, and both times I had the car back that afternoon. Granted, that's probably easier than a head gasket, but it's still quite a bit of disassembly nonetheless. A few other rather big repairs had to be done, and usually I got the car back that day... I've noticed just about anything mechanical takes many, many times longer to fix on these "Toyotas" than it would on a true GM car. They're so different than what they're used to working on, and probably very little knowledge of GM procedures will apply to these things, perhaps...The dealer that replaced my power steering pump suggested that I not sit around and wait, it would have taken just a couple hours on a GM car... But since they always run into something working on these things, they took me home. "The Vibe is a bizarre animal" he says - and he's right. Hang in there a little longer... Hopefully you will get your problems all taken care of and all will be just peachy.

I believe some head bolts can be tightened only once. Once the bolt is torqued down, it stretches a little and keeps a tight hold. Once it is loosened up, it can't be re-torqued cuz it's already been stretched out the first time. I don't know if this is true, but it could be possible.Hope you get it back soon.

Quote, originally posted by cohocarl »I believe some head bolts can be tightened only once. Once the bolt is torqued down, it stretches a little and keeps a tight hold. Once it is loosened up, it can't be re-torqued cuz it's already been stretched out the first time. I don't know if this is true, but it could be possible.Hope you get it back soon. I know for a fact that this is true on some Ford engines, and there expensive bolts.

Dealerships get paid a set amount for warranty work. If the GM repair manual says it takes 8 hours to replace a head gasket, the dealership gets reimbursed for 8 hours from GM, whether it takes them 6 hours or 2 weeks. So it might actually be costing the dealership money to keep your car this long.

Thanks everyone for the uplifting comments. I'm keeping my fingers crossed today that I'll hear my car being ready for pickup. As for the bolts being used once, it does make sense. I guess these GM guys weren't prepared for something as drastic as a toyota...lol. Anyways, I still think they should have been more than prepared to order in all the parts as opposed to ordering them 1 by 1 . I already know how long it takes to order in parts from the states to here, why I don't know, but I guess they want to make sure they don't order it from toyota and let the head distribution plant order it for them. I get the feeling that the bolt they ordered yesterday or was requiring yesterday is not going to be in today considering the other times it took several days to receive it. Well I'll keep on hoping anyways.

Quote, originally posted by cohocarl »I believe some head bolts can be tightened only once. Once the bolt is torqued down, it stretches a little and keeps a tight hold. Once it is loosened up, it can't be re-torqued cuz it's already been stretched out the first time. I don't know if this is true, but it could be possible.Hope you get it back soon. Thats it exactly, according to the GM factory service manual, all the heads bolts MUST be replaced if the head is removed.BTW, if the dealership is waiting on parts over 5 days, they are footing the bill for your rental car.

Quote, originally posted by tnpartsguy »Thats it exactly, according to the GM factory service manual, all the heads bolts MUST be replaced if the head is removed.BTW, if the dealership is waiting on parts over 5 days, they are footing the bill for your rental car.I thought about the rental....but as for parts....what I was saying was that, if they are to order parts, wouldn't it make sense to order all parts that are required to be ordered? Previous to this 1 bolt order, there was an order of 2 bolts which this 1 bolt order probably could have been tacked on. Anyways, getting over the venting that I already did. Can anyone tell me if the engine is rebuilt in this sense the head gaskets replaced and whatever got damaged in the process, would the car be in the order it was when I first bought it? Such as breaking in period low revs and speed at a minimum. Also, what are the chances of a breakdown due to the repairs? I'm worried that because the car has had major operation, how good will it handle? Should I just throw in the towel and trade it in as soon as I get the opportunity (I'm still paying for it still).

Quote, originally posted by CyBeRjUnKiE »what are the chances of a breakdown due to the repairs?Hard telling. If they do the repairs correctly, it should be at least as good as new. I remember my wife bought a new 1985 Ford Escort, (and while under warranty thankfully) the synchronizers in the transmission gave up, and I believe the other thing was a sticking exhaust valve, but it also had to have the head off of it to repair. I thought GREAT!, I'll be having to have this thing fixed every few months, but it ran like a champ till close to 125,000 miles when a rod bearing started to go. I guess I'm wondering why your head gasket puked in the first place. It seems like there should be a warranty on the work they do, but not sure how that works.

It might be thier first time at that dealership doing a head-gasket on a vibe. If this is the case then they are likely making sure they do it right the first time even if it costs more. Its also likely thier parts department didnt want to pay a large amount of freight charges so ordered all the parts at a slower pace. (ie. ground vs. next day air) And if they didnt get all they parts needed then a second order would delay your repair. From the sounds of it they seem to be concerned about doing it correctly if they are waiting on a couple nuts and bolts. Which is a very very good thing. If you are extremely distressed go have a chat with the Service Manager and Parts Manager, explain to them you would appreciate a more haste-like repair. As far as being like new? and breaking it in? Any problems you have will be covered under thier shop warranty if not under factory warranty. And its always a good idea to be gentle after a "major operation", but then again its always a good idea to be gentle to your beautiful car.

Good to know about the shop warranty. I'll look into it as soon as I pick up the car. I got a call from them yesterday not to pick it up, and to pick it up today instead. Another delay, this time there was no reason as to why it wasn't ready. I guess they realize that they are sounding like a broken record. They did however say it'll be ready today guaranteed. I'll hope this guarantee is genuine. As for why my head gasket blew, they told me it was probably a manufactor defect. There was crustations building up around the spark plugs, and RAD fluid slowly kept going to low every time I bring it in for service. Although there was no visible leak on the driveway or any sort. The pink crustations must have been the RAD fluid gooing up and seeping out of the spark plug area or so. Didn't realize it until I put in the CAI where I had to remove the engine cover and that's when it indicated to me and my neighbor something was wrong. Previous to that I had experience some pulling sensation on the car which I blamed the clutch for. But when I got the new clutch, I still experienced the same problem. May have been the spark plugs misfiring or something like that. As soon as I brought it into the shop, they confirmed that the gooey crust was from a blown gasket, after I complained that the car was not acting right. I'm surprised cause when they replaced the clutch, I would assumed that it would have been test driven or do some sort of test. But as soon as I took it out of the shop, I was hit with a CEL.

Here's an update.....Car is not ready yet....argghhhh....it seems their guarantee wasn't 100% after all. The engine timing was off 1 tooth therefore they'll need to re-open up the engine and adjust the timing chain. I was told it'll be ready for tomorow, I just told them, just hold on to my car and get it done right and have it ready on Monday instead. So another weekend without my Vibe. I just hope everything is done right once I receive it, and that the car will out last my short lived expectations.edit: Also the case with the one bolt that needed to be ordered was caused by over torqing the bolt which then broke the head.

Quote, originally posted by CyBeRjUnKiE »edit: Also the case with the one bolt that needed to be ordered was caused by over torqing the bolt which then broke the head. I've done that myself numerous times working on the Vibe.Sometimes I don't bother to check torque specs (and in some cases, the bolts are indicated for a specific torque), so I tighten them, and usually say "one more for good will" and the bolt head snaps right off. It's lame. Then I gotta drill out the bolt and try to find another one that fits right. It's irritating.

It was for the bolt....I was told several days ago that my car wasn't ready because they needed to order one bolt. Which I just found out the reason to just now. Well, let them keep working on my car while I keep doing my errands on the rental. It works out good since I need to go down to Niagara tomorow, and I'm not about to waste my last 1000KMs on an errand. I also was updated in regards to the work they've been doing on my car. They said it's covered under their shop warranty for 1 year or 20,000KMs which ever comes first. So that gives me some breather for any mishaps on the car caused by their work. Otherwise, the 1000KMs I have left is coming to close to expiry, which by now should be okay since I've got pretty much most of the expensive items repaired or replaced under the warranty, mainly the engine, and the clutch. I'll have to see if they did anything to my radiator since it was linked to the cause of the damage, and if they did it should be covered under their shop warranty correct?edit: Just spoke with the dealership again. The car is still not ready. I'm beginning to think that they're using this car as a guinea pig since they seem to have no clue what's going on. Either that, or the engine is really a pain in the a$$ to work with. Anyways, they say it'll be ready by end of day, but as we all already know from the previous posts, I'll believe it when it comes. In the meantime all their promises has ended up nothing more than empty ones. I wonder if they'll give me a brand new car if they can't fix it. lol....that would so awesome if they did that, but highly doubt it. I'll keep my fingers crossed as usual.

Just got my car back today...woohoo...after 3 weeks, it's finally back. I'm very happy that the car feels back to normal, but very dissapointed that two noticeable items were missing. One of the plastic push tree's was missing for the engine cover and the other part is the arm that holds the hood, the part where it is connected to the chasis is missing. I was told the parts were ordered, but I don't understand why they would even miss the arm part, the engine cover tree is understandable, it breaks very easily. But the arm? I'll post the pictures of what I mean. Engine bay looks very clean, so looks pretty new that it was before it went. I also have a souvenir of the crust that buit around the spark plugs. I'll post that as well.

They broke your prop rod? Oh my!For what it's worth, I think many of us have had those little plastic thingies on the engine cover busted. I know mine were broken by the dealer first time they looked into my coolant loss, but they never bothered to replace 'em.

Well that was my first initial response. I really don't see how they can do that unless they purposely wanted to remove it. Which brings me back to thinking, what the hell does that have to do with my engine being blown?

My car is out of warranty now and it will never see another GM dealership but will go to Toyota specialists from here on out. I had a similar experience and it's very discouraging. Any explanation on why your gasket blew/leaked? Any mods? Base or GT?

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe »My car is out of warranty now and it will never see another GM dealership but will go to Toyota specialists from here on out. I had a similar experience and it's very discouraging. Any explanation on why your gasket blew/leaked? Any mods? Base or GT?as to the explanations as to why the gaskets blew, I could think of only two possibilities, and the first one would probably be the one1. Factory defect - the service person said that the crust that he saw building around the spark plugs was most likely caused by a leak into the engine...as for the crust he's only seen it once on older models of Honda engines or so....he says most likely been defective the day you bought it, it was just very very slow to detect and is now just showing you the after effects. So if your rad fluid seems to be going down slowly, and don't see any on your driveway, check to make sure there's no leak into the engine or into the rad. If your's is as bad as mine, take out the engine cover and see if there is any pinkish crust building around the spark plugs. I'll post the picture of the remaining residue I broke off and kept as a souvenir.2. The second possibility is sort of a long shot, but it's still a possibility....When I bought my car 2 1/2 years ago, the first day I got it, I took it with me snowboarding. That day, we had a ton of snow and since those conti's have crappy grip, I was stuck in a ditch for a several minutes, where I reved up pretty high several times to try to get out of the ditch. I know the engine has the computer to prevent the engine from blowing, but because it was the breaking period, I think MAYBE it can be a cause. But if it were to blow then, I don't think it would have been a slow leak.I surely hope that the experience that you are having is not a result of a blown head gasket. It will really be costly, from what I've heard, and considering the time it took these guys to finally complete the job, I'm sure you'll be out of your vibe for quite some time. Drove it around last night, and was pretty happy with the feeling of the car. The new clutch also felt very nice, and felt smoother in the transition of the gears. Other than the chips on the paint from long distance driving, and the minor rust spots here and there, which I hope to eliminate or minimize, and the dirty interior, the car feels like new. Good luck with your vehicle, keep us up to date about your vehicle.My vibe is the 2003 5spd base model - Sattelite

My problem was throw out bearing related and the dealer caused other problems during the repair. I don't think that you caused the problem by by being stuck. If that were the case, it would indicate that you warped the head. That's how an overheat causes a head gasket leak. I would be very watchful of my coolant level if I were you.

good you have your car back. seems to me like the mechanic just hasn't had much experiance with vibes. he should have been more careful. once it runs out of warrenty go to a toyota specialist like stated. i personally dont trust the dealer near me to do any repairs on mine. if i ever have a problem i'll be coordinating with the toyota dealer in town, i have a couple connections around here.

well it seems, my car will have to go back to the dealership again. I have been over cautious ever since I got my car, and it paid off...I noticed some rad fluid leakage around the engine again. This time it's leaking outside, so it was quite obvious to see the reddish coolant. Made the appointment already and have to be dropping the car off this Thursday. I'm beggining to think I got a lemon.

That sucks! Let's hope it's just a loose hose... Are you able to tell approximately where it has sprung a leak?Hate to see you have such rotten luck... Believe me, you're not alone! Hang in there...

They need to check that the head if still flat and pressure test the cooling system before they return it to you. Good Luck.

This problem has been since you owned your vibe and you've been driving it for a long time before you noticed it? You have more than head bolts and a gasket problem. Have you ever seen what a coolant steam will do to aluminum between the cylinders or any place between the head and the block? I can't believe they didn't replace the engine. They must have one hellofa machine shop there.

I didn't want to scare you but on used oil analysis the wear rates often increase over 100X when coolant finds its way into the oil. It really comprimises the lubricant. Why is the radiator supected as a contributing to the problem? Have you overheated? That would point to a warped head. If you haven't significantly overheated, the head should be fine. As for long term reliability. I would do a quick oil change. Then run it a couple thousand mi and get an oil analysis. Also get a compression check. If everything looks OK than its future should be OK but you probably lost some life from the motor. If it doesn't check out, the analysis is something that GM understands and will have to address. It will also show if there is coolant in the oil. Run the dealer oil a few hundred mi before changing to get silicon from the gasket and any other remaining contaminants flushed out before you run the test oil and you'll get an accurate reading except for a possible higher than normal silcon reading from the gasket still leaching a bit. By the way, intakes(or drop ins) that use oiled gause filters like K&N usually increase the silicon number due to dirt ingress and will show a corresponding increase in wear from dirt abrasion on bearing surfaces and cylander walls. If you can hold that filter up to a light and see pin holes, that's where the air is moving the fastest and can carry dirt the easiest. It's also why gause filters work better at filtering when dirty and the larger holes have started to get plugged.

Well I got my car back today. It turned out that it was a loose clamp that was causing the rad fluid leak. Good thing it wasn't too bad. I'm not thinking of getting the extended warranty since I'm very close to expiry. but one good thing I found out was that there is a 100k powertrain warranty which should cover my engine. Anything else this power warranty covers? I'm wondering if I need to change the catalytic converter now.

great news

Glad it wasn't anything major! If you do decide to do the warranty thing: Get the extended warranty through GM... Not sure how much it costs up there, but if they have coverage similar to the Major Guard that is offered here in the US, get that one. Don't mess with 3rd party warranties, go for GM even though it costs a heck of a lot more... Not sure what the powertrain warranty covers, but you may be able to supplement that coverage with the extended warranty - i.e. making it more or less the same bumper-to-bumper type coverage you currently have. Check with the dealer and see what all is covered. Things like 'wear items,' audio components, air leaks, water leaks, and rattles (doh! ) aren't covered under my extended warranty, iirc.. But depending on what warranty you get, just about everything else should be.Listen to your gut instincts here... If you think you'll need the warranty, get it. One thing I've noticed about these cars --- some have good luck with theirs. That's all fine and dandy, but the remaining unlucky souls, well - when it rains, it pours. I hate to sound negative or scare anybody, but some of us - and absolutely, myself is included - start having problem after problem and the problems will never stop no matter how much time the car spends in the shop... Ra ra ra, go toyota!!! So indeed, I'm glad I sprung for the warranty... Pathetic that I have to use it so much, but at least it's there. lolGood luck to you - do what you feel is best. Here's to a more reliable ride down the road...