GenVibe - Community for Pontiac Vibe Enthusiasts

Okay so I'm not a Vibe fanatic like all of you - the Vibe is my wife's car and she likes to keep things stock (for now anyway). That said I have tons of experience with early watercooled VW's (early 1.8's, ABA, and the old-school VR6), and of course my Wrangler which is my DD. I so far have done all the work on the vibe, what little it has needed: oil changes, K&N air filter, chassis lube, wiper blades, blah blah blah.I have never worked on drum brakes before - all my VW's had 4 wheel discs, and I haven't had to change the shoes on the Jeep yet...so I'm kinda in the dark. I don't have a service manual for the vibe, but I'm guessing that drum brakes have been around forever and shouldn't be that hard to understand. What I need though is some sort of a basic procedure, and a list of special tools I might need, since I'll be doing this at night with no FLAPS access (friendly local auto parts store). I have a full set of metric and customary tools, plus an impact wrench and an air ratchet, screwdrivers, etc. I have heard of two things..a brake spring tool, and a brake spoon. I have no idea what these do or if I need them. I also don't know if there are any specs I need to follow when doing the brakes, IE torque specs, checking clearance with feeler gauges, whatever. Do you think it's likely they even need to be replaced? My wife's car has nearly 50k on it, and she drives it HARD. It'll see three digits a few times weekly at least, and the remainder of the driving is hard stop and go in Downtown Chicago. She's getting a little squeak in the front and the pads aren't looking quite as meaty so I got a new set of those and that'll probably take me half an hour to an hour to do..but the rears, I am in the dark on. Shower me with your knowledge!Thanks in advance!PS: This is an 03 base Vibe, FWD with an automatic.

Drum brakes typically arent that difficult. The main thing , and by far the most important thing...is do only one side at a time, so you have a reference when reassembling. A brake spring tool allows you to push in and turn the hold down springs at the same time. Ive foound that a regular pair of pliers works just as well. The brake spoon can actually save you some profanity time, it allows you to install the return springs very easily and quickly. You can use a screwdriver or pliers, and on the Vibe, thats probably what I would use, I cant imagine the springs are that strong that you can manipulate them with a pair of pliers. First thing is, and the most recent drum job I did was on my f250, a little different, so bear with me...... After you pull the drum, youll have a primary shoe, and secondary shoe, one is longer than the other and must be put back together accordingly, so pay attention. You will have 2 return springs at the top, one going to each shoe, as well as one conecting the shoes at the bottom. You will also have one hold down spring per shoe. Its best to leave the hold down springs in until you are ready to remove the shoes, its like a third hand. You will also have a cable attached to the post at the top of the backing plate, and going around one of the shoes, down to the adjuster arm. This doesnt need to be replaced unless its broken. Thats about it. Make sure you grease the threads on the adjuster, and where the shoes rub on the backing plate, and make sure the adjuster is turned all the way in when you put everything back together. LIke I said...leave one side together so you can go look to make sure you are putting it back together, just remember everything is backwards on the other side.....

Okay that makes sense. The only thing is..what of these adjusters? Do they need adjusting? How do I set clearances..or are they self-adjusting? This does not involve opening the hydraulic system at all correct - so I can avoid bleeding? I know the fronts definitely do not, but i"m not familiar with how the back wheel cylinders fit in the assembly.In order to get the drum cover off, I just remove the wheel and give it a little beating with a hammer and a block of wood right? It should just come off because it's a very slight interference fit..?Do you suppose they might even need replacing at this time? how long does a set usually last? I konw the front does most of the work anyway, so those go first..

The rear brakes should be self adjusting. If the rear brakes have worn some of the brake drum, there could be a metal lip on the drum, and you may need to adjust the adjuster to get the brake shoes to retract enough to get the drum off. When you put new shoes on, you should adjust them so that there isn't much slack, otherwise you can get some clunks and other noises when you step omn the brakes. I haven't looked at the rear brakes on mine, most cars with rear drums have an opening on the where you can reach in with an adjusting tool or a couple of screwdrivers.On the last vehicle I had with rear drums, I replaced the rear brake shoes for the first time when I replaced the fronts the third time, at about 200K miles. I don't know how the ones on the Vibe will hold up, it does depend a lot on driving conditions, but at only 50K miles, you probably don't need to replace them yet. but that's just a guess. I will replace mine when they start to make some noiseyou shouldn't need to bleed the brakes just to replace the brake shoes, but check the brake fluid level when you're done.

I would agree with joatmon, they shouldn't need replacing yet. You could take off one drum just to inspect the wear though and you'll know what you are dealing with when the time comes to change them.

Squeaks seem to be common on this car. I have them too, but my brakes are fine.That being said, my dealer told me that the salt and crud from the snow season can get into the brakes and cause squeaking. They cleaned them out, been fine ever since. Might be as simple as that!

We sell a tool, others do to so (common hand tool) you may want to pick one up, we call it a Brake Gauge. It is a double ended or sided tool and it is used on drum brakes and drum in hat style disc brakes. You start with the drum or hat and measure the inside drum from across side to side, then tighten the set screw to mark the measurement. Next you take the other end or side of the tool and hold it against your shoes, this will tell you how much to adjust the shoes outward using the star wheel adjuster. You adjust them until the shoes touch the tool. It works great I have used it on one of my cars parking brakes and plan to use it on the Vibe next tire rotation to adjust the rears. It really takes the guess work out of it and makes it easy since the tool holds the measurement with the set screw for you. And it gives you just enough shoe drag on the drum that you need. You may want to just check the adjustment before doing a complete brake job. Usually they just need adjustment, last three times longer then fronts and I have never had a vehicle whose self adjusters actually worked after 20-30,000 miles+. I would hose your brakes off with water, lube the star wheel and adjust. If you need to do a complete job then the members advise above will help you, drums are not that hard but the proper tools help and replace ALL the hardware/springs not just the shoes if you do the job.

Yes, forgot about the self adjusting adjusters. They are supposed to turn the adjuster via that cable that is attached to the post at the top of the backing plate. Either when you use your parking brake, or apply the brakes in reverse. Ive never used a tool to do the preliminary adjustment after installation, usually turn the adjuster out untill there is a SLIGHT drag on the drums. And yes, you should always replace the springs, youll want to ask for a spring kit when you do it, usually no more than 10 dollars. You do not have to crack any lines, unlike calipers, which compensate for wear by added fluid in the piston bore, the springs on the shoes always return the wheel cylinders to full seat, hence why there is a mechanical adjustment in there.