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Has anyone else heard of this? When we drive our 2003 Automatic Transmission AWD Vibe in the mountains here in Colorado, at between 50 and 60 miles per hour, it drops out of 2nd and seems like it is trying to hit first gear. We've taken it to the dealer under warranty and have been told there is no fix and it is covered by a service bulletin that doesn't describe the problem. The service manager felt the problem and compared it to a neutral drop and stated he didn't think the car could take too many of these. It happens sporatically on sustained grades. Pontiac CAC has never returned a call and only responds when I call them. I have never talked to the same person twice since the person I am supposed to talk to, never picks up the phone and doesn't "respond within 24 hours" as their message state. When I asked for a supervisor at CAC, I was told they'd left a message for the supervisor and they would call me within 24 hours. I've heard the 24 hour or I'll call you on this day thing about 5-6 times and it has never happened. Has anyone heard of this problem wiht the AWD Vibe? Does anyone know what options I have with the dealer/Pontiac? I can just see the drive train tearing itself apart in the middle of a winter night outside of cell range.

So when you're driving uphill, does it downshift to neutral, or does it hit a gear? And i'll assume you're moving at a steady speed? Or are you on cruise control?I don't have an AWD..i'm just asking questions that may get someone to think of a good answer..

After maintaing speed on a grade, you go to floor the accelerator because it has gotten steeper or you need to pass. At that moment or near to it, its as if it pops out of gear, revs, and then slams back into gear in less than 2 seconds. It makes the whole vehicle buck. No trouble codes are generated and its repeatable on most any Interstate pass out here.

OK, this is sounding very familiar to what I experienced in my 2003 AWD.I'd be going along on a flat grade into a very strong wind (40 MPH). I'm doing about 60 MPH or so. My car would downshift (like from 4th to 3rd) for a few seconds to maintain speed, then shift back up to 4th. Is that what is happening? My tach would jump up to 3100 or so when it would downshift.Long story short, I had a plugged catalytic converter. I plugged two of them in two years, because I was putting about 100 miles/day on my car in a similar (cold) climate.If you need more info, just search for my old posts - my problem is VERY well documented here - key terms are pmh013, catalytic, cold, highway.I hope you have more success getting your car fixed than I did. I ended up having to get Transport Canada involved.

pmh013 said: I'd be going along on a flat grade into a very strong wind (40 MPH). I'm doing about 60 MPH or so. My car would downshift (like from 4th to 3rd) for a few seconds to maintain speed, then shift back up to 4th. Is that what is happening? My tach would jump up to 3100 or so when it would downshift.Thanks for the lead. It doesn't sound quite the same, but might be worth looking into. It seems like its gear dependent. That is, if you're in a higher gear it doesn't happen. I can blast up the same hill at 70-80 (in 4th gear) without a problem. When its slower and put under load it happens. We're talking from 4,500 rpm to 5500rpm jump at a minimum of 6,500 ft in elevation at 6-7% grades. When it happens it feels like the car is going to tear itself apart. A little different than when you downshift on a stick into the wrong gear...

Hmm... probably not the same thing then. Mine would only mis-behave at highway speeds. In the city it was always good.Sounds like transmission to me. But who knows until it gets ripped apart for a diagnosis (if it's not throwing codes). Just don't let it slide, especially if you're still on warranty. If they're saying it's normal for this thing to slip gears, I'd ask to see where that is on the brochure, and why hasn't anyone else reported it? Get this fixed while it's free for you!

AWD Drivers? Have you heard of this? After 4 weeks, I finally received a return call from Pontiac CAC, saying the dealer would like to have the car back for the regional rep to decide if they would buy the vehicle back since they weren't able to fix the problem. The dealer said that's not the case, they now have some additional ways to hook the car up to run diagnostics. The Pontiac Service manager doesn't think its right, and is doing his best to fix the issue. Heads up, I've heard from an 2004 AWD Matrix owner here in Colorado that she's having the same problem. Toyota's first response to a phone call was that's normal, its a small engine...

Ugh! I can't say I like Toyota's response! It is a small engine, but issues such as this shouldn't be considered "normal" to me... I wish you the best of luck getting the issue resolved! As a Vibe owner who has had his fair share of problems, I know how ya feel.

Found this today...Incorrect Transmission Shifts, Poor Engine Performance, Harsh 1-2 Upshifts, Slips 1ST and Reverse, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Stuck Off/On, DTC P0730, P0756, P0757, P0741, P0742 #02-07-30-013C - (Jan 3, 2005)Incorrect Transmission Shifts, Poor Engine Performance, Harsh 1-2 Upshifts, Slips 1ST and Reverse, Torque Converter Clutch (TCC) Stuck Off/On, DTC P0730, P0756, P0757, P0741, P0742 (Clean Transaxle Valve Body and Case Oil Passages of Debris)2001-2005 Cars and Light Duty Truckswith 4T65E Transmission (RPOs M15, MN3, MN7, M76)This bulletin is being revised to include additional models and model years. Please discard Corporate Bulletin #02-07-30-013B (Section 07 -- Transmission/Transaxle).ConditionSome owners may comment on any one or more of the following conditions: • The SES lamp is illuminated. • The transmission slips. • The transmission does not shift correctly, is very difficult to get the vehicle to start moving or the engine lacks the power to move the vehicle. • Poor engine performance CauseThe most likely cause of the various conditions may be chips or debris: • All years--Pressure Reg. Valve (Bore 1) or Torque Signal Valve (Bore 4) stuck. • On 2001 - 2002 vehicles, a plugged orifice on the case side of the spacer plate. • ON 2003 - 2005 vehicles, restricted movement of the 2-3 shift valves in the valve body. • On 2003 - 2005 vehicles, restricted movement of the 3-4 shift valves in the valve body. Technician Diagnosis • The technician's road test reveals the vehicle launches in third or fourth gear (high RPM with slow vehicle acceleration). • On 2001 - 2002 vehicles, a DTC P0756 or P0757 may be stored. • On 2003 - 2005 vehicles, a DTC P0730, P0741, P0748 or P0757 may be stored. • Refer to the appropriate Service Information (SI) for additional Diagnostic Assistance. • With a Tech 2® connected to the vehicle, road test the vehicle and perform the following steps: • If the vehicle performance is normal, skip to Step 4 of the Correction section. If a problem exists with the vehicle, proceed with the next step. • Command third gear with the Tech 2®. If the displayed gear ratio is something other than 1:1, go to Step 1 of the Correction section. • Command fourth gear with the Tech 2®. If the displayed gear ratio is something other than 0.7:1, go to Step 2 of the Correction section. Diagnostic Symptom Chart For 2004 Model Year VehiclesSYMPTOM VALVE BORE LEAST LIKELY CAUSE TRANS SLIPS--SLIPS ON TAKEOFF--LOW LINE PRESSURE PRESSURE REGULATOR or 2-3 shift valve 1 PCS/Valve Body SLIPS COLD--HARSH SHIFTS--SLIPS ACCEL, SLIPS 1ST AND REVERSE TORQUE SIGNAL VALVE or Pressure Reg. Valve 4 PCS/Valve Body WON'T ACCEL--DRAGS--SLIPPING--STUCK SECOND-NO THIRD OR FOURTH 2-3 SHIFT VALVE (BORE 12) 3-4 SHIFT VALVE( BORE 11) 11 / 12 Valve Body HARSH 1-2 SHIFT---CLUNK NOISE 1-2 ACCUM or 1-2 Shift Valve 14 Valve Body JERKS HARD WHEN SHIFTING GEARS 2-3 ACCUM BUSHING INNER VALVE or Torque Sig Reg Valve 15 Valve Body TCC STUCK ON, TCC STUCK OFF, HARSH 1-2 UPSHIFT P0741, P0742 TCC CONTROL VALVE 6 / 2 or 7 PWM, VALVE BODY CorrectionDO THIS DON'T DO THIS Repair / Replace Valve Body Components or The Valve Body DO NOT Replace the Transaxle Assembly (1) Bore 1, Pressure Regulator (Reverse Boost Valve inside bushing) (2) Bore 2, 1-2 Shift Valve, Solenoid "A" (4) Bore 4, Torque Signal Valve, Pressure Control Solenoid (5) Bore 5, Pressure Relief Valve (6) Bore 6, PWM and TCC Control Valve (7) Bore 7, TCC Regulator Apply Valve (11) Bore 11, 3-4 Shift Valve, 4-3 Manual Down Shift Valve (12) Bore 12, 2-3 Shift Valve, 3-2 Manual Down Shift Valve (14) Bore 14, Secondary 1-2 Accumulator Valve (15) Bore 15, 2-3 Accumulator Valve, 3-4 Accumulator Valve (16) Bore 16, Solenoid "B" Important: • With the solenoids removed (shift solenoids, PCS, PWM) those valves can be push tested with the valve body removed. If the valves float freely in the bore, that valve can be considered operating correctly. The Pressure Regulator Valve(bore 1), 3-4 Shift Valve(bore 11) and 2-3 Shift Valve( bore 12) have a home position as identified in the diagram. A flat blade tool can be inserted into the bore to unseat the valve from home position and allow the valve to "snap" to seat. If the valve snaps to seat, that bore can be considered to be operating correctly as well. • If any valve when operated does not feel "smooth" as pressed and released in any bore, that bore should be disassembled and inspected. Run a pocket magnet down the bore several times and inspect for metal debris. Inspect the valve surface for nicks or debris, clean the valve, clean the bore and reinstall the valve into the appropriate bore. If the valve moves freely, reassemble making sure the orientation of the valve, springs and clip is as original. • If any bore or valve is scored or nicked or the valve cannot be removed from the valve body, do not attempt to repair. Replace the valve body. If all valves move freely in the appropriate bore, clean and reinstall the valve body. Remove the valve body. Carefully disassemble and clean the complete valve body. Pay particular attention to the 2-3 shift valve (Bore 12). Inspect the bore for machining chips and carefully clean, as necessary. Reinstall the 2-3 shift valve components and verify the valve is moving freely. Inspect the Pressure Reg. Valve and Torque Signal Valve for freeness and debris. Go to Step 3. Remove the valve body. Carefully disassemble and clean the complete valve body. Pay particular attention to the 3-4 shift valve (Bore 11). Inspect the bore for machining chips and carefully clean, as necessary. Reinstall the 3-4 shift valve components and verify the valve is moving freely. Go to Step 3. Clean the channels of the transaxle case assembly thoroughly. Inspect the case channels for debris. When satisfied, the case channels are thoroughly cleaned of all debris, reinstall the valve body using new spacer plate gaskets or the newly released bonded spacer plate and gasket assembly. If the technician is unable to reproduce the condition after an extensive road test, the chip which caused the concern has likely been exhausted from the affected valve or spacer plate. No further action on the part of the technician is necessary. Warranty InformationFor vehicles repaired under warranty, use:Labor Operation Description Labor Time K6560 Valve Body --R & R Use Published Labor Operation Time Add: Diagnosis 0.0 -- 0.6 hr Add: Cleaning the Valve Body Use Published Labor Operation Time

You said it shifts out of second, and that you see a jump from 4500 to 5500 RPMsThe gear ratios in the AWD auto (from Nova's post in http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=4234 ) are:1st : 2.852nd : 1.553rd : 1.004th : 0.70Reverse : 2.34Final Drive Ratio: 4.24so, if you are driving along at 4500 RPMs in second gear and floor it, the auto downshift would have to kick the PRMs up to 4500 * 2.85/1.55 to keep the same speed, which is about 8275, well over redline. Be glad that it is unsuccessful in downshifting. The car's computer should be smart enough to try to keep you from downshifting at that high of RPM, but apparently it's not. Sounds like it tries to downshift, and then realizes that would be a mistake, and shifts back into second. I can't say if it is a malfunction or a design flaw.

Hi all,I also live in Colorado, like DenverAWD. I'm experiencing the exact same sypmtoms. On a long, steep climb at speeds above 55mph, the transmission will downshift to maintain speed. At some point, it attempts to shift from 2nd to 1st, the RPMs spike, and the car violently jerks. It will do this repeatedly and the only way to make it stop is to slow down.In my opinion, it seems to be an issue in the transmission controller logic. There needs to be a provision that says no matter what, you don't downshift into first gear when going over 50mph.I took the car to the dealership and was told it was fine. No issues. They couldn't duplicate the problem, but I don't expect that they would be able to. It's only under specific conditions.I have not tried the Pontiac CAC.Does anyone have any more info on this issue at this time? I noticed the thread is several months old now and thought I'd ask for an update.Thanks,Jason

welcome... sorry to hear your having a problem.Maybe try the hill agian and carry a video camera and get the guage cluster while your driving, ull get it on film and you can show them there IS something wrong and you want it looked into. cuz if you dont file anything and your engine blows from overreving or tranny blows... theyll try and say its on you.

I have an AWD! We went on a trip throught the moutains in Colorado back in april/may.While at times there seemed to be a lack of power.as anyvehicle would at high altitude.I never noticed any gear hunting or bucking. I did on occasion turn off the Overdrive. This allowed me to maitain power and speed. without constant gear changing.

there is no way you are in second gear doing 60mph. Unless you are nearing redline. And then thinking it's going to try for 1st gear in an electronically controlled auto tranny would scare me. 3rd trying to downshift to second would be more like it. Are you driving the stick like a manual shift??? Keeping it in the lower gears on hills??? These trannys have 5 gears(speeds). Yes, FIVE. There are 4 shift points. 1st shift( 1 to 2) , 2nd shift (2 to 3), 3rd (3 to 4) then 4th shift and 5th speed(gear) is the lock up of the torque converter. Often on flat ground with a light foot it often just skips from 3rd to lock up rather quickly, skipping the fourth all together. Just watch the tach. You'll see what I mean. I hope your problem can be identified. I doubt GM will buy the car back. I also have rec'd the same recording of "response in 24 hours". It's been a week or more.....nothing. I run very steep grades here too. Mine does not show signs of your problem. Keep us informed...best of luck...

Just so you know, the original post is from January 12, 2005 and DenverAWD's last post was on January 21st, 2005. So theu are long gone.

dah...guess we are just helpful sorts, eh.

True story!

I live in Oregon and had something similar to this happen to me the other day. I was driving to the ski resort here and was passing and my car jerk 3 or 4 times and went back to accelerating. I was going around 60 or so. The only thing I can think of is maybe the cinder in the center of the road caused my studded tires to lose traction and jerk since they are losing traction and regaining traction. Could this be the problem? I know this thread is old but I would like to know. I know Colorado uses a lot of cinder on their roads as well and the stuff acts like ball bearings on dry pavement. I haven't driven a lot of AWD cars but I do know that studded tires + high speeds + dry roads = little traction. Add the cinder rock while I'm accelerating and I think it's going to make a car jerk.

Sounds kind of like the car may not have enough power to do what the driver wants to do and when the driver operates the car at the margins of the vehicle's capability, the computer is having trouble figuring out what to do. Perhaps there is an issue, like a block catalytic, that has reduced the engine's performance and the computer is still "thinking" like the car has 100% power. Perhaps there's something else affecting the computer's ability to figure out what to do, like non-standard tire sizes. They may have to settle for a slower speed and/or no passing on those particularly steep grades. Just a guess, tho.

I regularly go hiking near mountain trails and I must admit that I have a somewhat similar problem every time I go. The forest road is full of twists, turns and ups and down and I always have the feeling that the transmission is at a loss and doesn't know how to react, like it's constantly searching for a a better gear and switching between 1st, 2nd and 3rd. It's not alarming or anything, just.... weird. My old Maxima never did this when I used those trails.

I live in Denver. I had the exact same problem. Violent miss-shift (missed down shift) near 60 mph above 10,000 feet on continual grade (for example I-70). This happened at 34,000 miles. The dealer replaced the valve body and it temporarily fixed the problem. It seems to be coming back now at 48,000 mile. They would not replace any other components. The fluid in the transmission and (I think) the transfer case were black and heavily oxidized. I also notice that the overdrive "bumps" when it disengages. The force of this bump seems to be getting worse with time. I assume there is residual damage from the violent shifting. Does anyone have an idea about the over-drive issue?

I don't know if i was living in such high area's of the states i would be changing the fluids more oftenAs is i change the fluids once a year.

On my trip back from Oregon I took I-70. Had the same issues. On many of the hills(6% grade)I had to go 45 and keep the rpms below 5k. It didn't help that the car was weighted down and I had cargo on my roof.

...please pardon my cynicism, but I'd go with the Toyota answers because the Pontiac people (at least here in AZ) seem to know squat about how the Vibe ECU / engine / tranny systems really work.