Automatic Lights

johnsoax · Post by **johnsoax** » Thu May 29, 2003 3:14 am

Any news on the automatic light sensitivity relay???? It's driving me nuts that they turn on and off about 5 times a day, IN DIRECT SUNLIGHT!!!!!! (Ah, I feel better now ) Well, not really in Direct sunlight, the sun is on the other side of the A post, so the only shadow is right across the sensor.

Altus · Post by **Altus** » Thu May 29, 2003 6:29 am

Tons of threads on how to disable that sucker - try the Search function :-> Lots of us have gotten fed up with this and disabled it.Basically you can eithera) pop the sensor up out of the dash & disconnect it thereorb) take the instrument cover off, and above the speedometer is the connector for the sensor - disconnect and you're done."B" is what I did - also used the time to alleviate some of the squeaks caused by the cluster cover.... Liquid Electrical Tape on all the plastic locating pins & the tab at the bottom of the speedometer!

johnsoax · Post by **johnsoax** » Thu May 29, 2003 10:16 pm

Yes, I know about disabling them, but I want them to work properly. I also don't want to void a warrenty on the first car that I have ever had a warrenty on.

LocDog · Post by **LocDog** » Fri May 30, 2003 3:01 am

When i took my sensor out i noticed that the tanned cover comes off... wouldnt this whole sensitivity problem be cured if were replaced with a clear cover?

esjones · Post by **esjones** » Fri May 30, 2003 7:38 am

quote:When i took my sensor out i noticed that the tanned cover comes off... wouldnt this whole sensitivity problem be cured if were replaced with a clear cover?No, that would make it worse, by allowing even MORE light into the sensor. The fix is a less sensitive sensor, or an adjustment in the circuitry that reads the sensor input and actually turns the lights on and off.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Fri May 30, 2003 8:10 am

quote:Yes, I know about disabling them, but I want them to work properly. I also don't want to void a warrenty on the first car that I have ever had a warrenty on. LOL!We ALL want them to work properly...Unclipping a wire harness certainly doesn't void the warranty...that's what's nice about doing that -- it's not permanant. quote:When i took my sensor out i noticed that the tanned cover comes off... wouldnt this whole sensitivity problem be cured if were replaced with a clear cover?Easiest way to find out is to remove the tinted cover, drive without any cover on for a few days, and evaluate how well it works or doesn't work.If you do that, let us all know you're findings...

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Fri May 30, 2003 8:17 am

quote:No, that would make it worse, by allowing even MORE light into the sensor. The fix is a less sensitive sensor, or an adjustment in the circuitry that reads the sensor input and actually turns the lights on and off.Actually, he's correct. A clear lens (or removing the lens) would solve the problem. The reason the lights go on and off in bright daylight is because the sensor doesn't get enough sunlight.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Fri May 30, 2003 2:55 pm

I'm not a good wiring person, but that actually sounds extremely easy...However, I've decided to just get used to them going on all the time.I keep the brightness gauge set at full so even if they kick in, the dash doesn't go dim on me...at night, i just turn it down again. it's just become a habit, more than a nuisance.

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Fri May 30, 2003 10:58 pm

This problem doesn't bothe me because I always keep the instrument lights ate full power. I hate driving at night with the gauges not fully lit.I can't figure out what the advantage is of making the gauge lights less bright at night.

esjones · Post by **esjones** » Sat May 31, 2003 4:53 am

quote:Scott wrote:Actually, he's correct. A clear lens (or removing the lens) would solve the problem. The reason the lights go on and off in bright daylight is because the sensor doesn't get enough sunlight.Well, you are correct (of course, dammit!). That's what I get for engaging typing mode before thinking is up to full speed.

esjones · Post by **esjones** » Sat May 31, 2003 4:55 am

quote:I can't figure out what the advantage is of making the gauge lights less bright at night.Agreed. The few times I've tried night driving with dimmed gauges, it tended to make me drowsy.

esjones · Post by **esjones** » Sat May 31, 2003 8:20 am

STRAYING WAY OFF-TOPIC NOW>>>>quote:You have Rods and Cones that are located in the Vitreous Humor (jelly like substance inside the eye). I am not a doctor, nor ophthamologist, nor do I play either of them on TV. I'm pretty sure, though, that the rods and cones are in the retina, not the vitreous humor.

gwm · Post by **gwm** » Sat May 31, 2003 8:35 am

I took off the tinted cover, covered the sensor with plastic wrap and have been using this fix for the past 2 months. It seems to work very well and this has been during a very rainy and cloudy Spring. Now I'm trying to find a hard clear cover that I can "rig" on top of the sensor, so that it can be better protected. Give this a try before you start cutting wires and/or pulling pins.

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Sat May 31, 2003 8:51 am

(Not far off topic here!)If you are driving on dark roads, it is actually better to dim the instruments, as this reduces contrast with the surroundings and helps your night vision. Similarily, when you roll in to a highway service center at night, they are usually really brightly lit. Unless you do your Blues Brothers imitation by donning your shades, it can take 10 minutes of driving afterwards for your night vision to fully return.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sat May 31, 2003 3:26 pm

Exactly Bill.I keep it off full brightness because the glare makes it harder to see the road, and strains my eyes.As I look down to a fully-bright dash at night, my eyes have to adjust to accomodate that brightness. When I look up again, they have to once again adjust to the outside darkness. That could take a couple of seconds, and a couple of seconds are all it takes for an animal to dart in front of me, a car to swerve into my lane, etc. etc.'Tis about safety, and optimal driving atmospheric conditions. Or something.

LocDog · Post by **LocDog** » Sat May 31, 2003 4:48 pm

I was gonna leave it without the grey cover... but it seems to have a jel on the inside that the sensorsits in... so i put it back on.I was thinkin maybe i could drill a hole right in the middle of the cover and put seran wrap on the inside... i think it would look too cheezy to just leave it cover with seran wrap

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Jun 01, 2003 1:47 am

I was going to disable the auto headlights and the DRL, but after I had the Vibe for a while, I got used to it, and it didn;t seem worth the effort. Still turn the headlights on when I know I need them instead of waiting for the auto headlights to do it for me. I usually leave the guage dimmer in full bright during the day. About the only time I even notice the autoheadlights are on is by chance I'll see that little green icon lit up. Sometimes dim the guages at night. Depends on where I'm driving. On a empty country road I like the guages dimmer to better see out, but in a busy well lit area, having bright guages doesn't matter. Try to not use the foglights much, just to keep from ruining other drivers night vision.

Robert G · Post by **Robert G** » Wed Jul 09, 2003 10:50 pm

I have had my Vibe for a few weeks. I seem to have the same problem as everyone else - the sensor is too sensitive and the headlights seem to go on almost all the time - in the garage before pulling the car out, on a cloudy day, etc. My problem seems to be that once they automatically go on, then don't go off except when I turn off the ignition. It seems from this post that most people have the problem of the lights going on too often, but then cycling on and off. I am taking the car to the dealer to have my license plates installed. I'll ask them about it. Any other suggestions? Also, I seem to recall reading that Toyota has put out a bulletin on this problem. Does anyone have a link to a site describing Toyota's bulletin. I'd like to take something to the dealer to show them. Thanks for your help.

nkaltso · Post by **nkaltso** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 6:14 am

I have the best fix. Go to NHTSA.org here is the direct linkhttp://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/c...h.cfmand file a complant. If there are enough people complaining about it the are foced to fix it. There are only 3 complaints right now. We need to start a grass root effort of sorts and have every Gen Vibe member fill out an complaint form then we will see progress for our problems. Instead of a bunch of threads complaining about it.The 2004 dash is white to fix this problem, but the fix is not avalible to the 2003 owners because GM is not foreced to.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 2:52 pm

Quote, originally posted by nkaltso Â»The 2004 dash is white to fix this problem, but the fix is not avalible to the 2003 owners because GM is not foreced to.Umm...I'm confused?Last I checked, white gauge faces have nothing to do with an oversensitive Twilight Sentinel sensor...Perhaps I am misunderstanding?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Dec 03, 2003 11:32 pm

I haven't seen an 04 up close. Is the light sensor cover less dark than on an '03?

nkaltso · Post by **nkaltso** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:17 am

Knowing the automotive busness and the cost to make a change GM Ford or DCx will not make a change unless they have to.Typically the next model year. (which is 2004 for the vibe) is when all the changes to fix what is wrong with the 2003 comes in. I have a hunch that this is GM / toyota fix for the DRL in the Vibe. Only because it came in for both the Matrix and the vibe for 04. Changing the Dash board color is easy especially if the change is done at a suppler. Its cheaper then paying for the reprograming of software, rewiring of sensors, or relocation of holes in Plastic molds (the most expensive change). Just change to color to something that is easy to view when the Dash goes dark.If engough people complain the the NHTSA it will get fix either though a TSB or a recall.please fill our a complant.. the information is kept private if you so desire.Here is the link againhttp://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/c...h.cfm

nkaltso · Post by **nkaltso** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:21 am

This is not about the lens it is about the white dash.Here is a link to the picture of the new Dash color for the matixhttp://www.toyota.com/images/v...0.jpgand here it is for the Vibe.http://www.pontiac.com/vibe/im...4.jpg

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 12:43 am

I think this particular thread was about the overly sensitive light sensor switching between DRL and headlight mode too often even during clear daylight. The new gauges won't affect that, but maybe a new light sensor or DRL module would.Maybe the new gauges would be provide some better gauge visibility in sunlight when the headlights are on and the dimmer control is not set to full bright. I think the new gauges look better in general, but have no idea how they do in bright sun compared to the 03 gagues. I do like the red gauges at night because they don't affect my night vision as much as white lights do.Still, a valid point here :Quote, originally posted by nkaltso Â»Go to NHTSA.org here is the direct linkhttp://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/c...h.cfmand file a complant.Complaining on a forum like this will probably have little effect on what the manufacturer does to correct problems, as much as we would like them to read all of our posts and actually be concerned about customer satisfaction. If there is a problem that you feel strongly about, then file a formal complaint, will put more force behind it.Still, I do not think there is any amount of complaining to nhtsa that will get GM to replace all of the 03 gauges with the new 04 versions unless they start to spontaneously catch fire or something like that. In the meantime, if gauge visibility strikes you as a safety issue, then be sure to set the dimmer control to full bright during the day, and maybe even just turn your headlights on full all the time, that way you won't be distracted by dimming lights and clicks behind the dash, and the people behind you won't think you hit your brakes when your head and tail lights come on just becuase you drove under an overpass.

nkaltso · Post by **nkaltso** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:09 am

I realize it is the sential lens. but it is cheaper for them to change the color of the dash then the relocate the sensor. trust me on this one.

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:16 am

the color of the dash has nothing to do with it. it is not receiving reflection from the dash, it gets light from the windshield. the area is often blocked by the (for lack of better words) support thingy between the drivers window and the windshield.

Post by **NSimkins** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 1:17 am

For the 2004 Vibes, the light sensor has been adjusted to be less sensitive to the change in lighting conditions. Also the 15-second delay that was encountered for the lights to change due to lighting conditions was removed completely. The sensor location has not changed as well and as far as I have seen, the lens over the 2004 sensor is no 'clearer' than previously.Also, as far as the gauge design between 2003 and 2004, they will not replace the 03's with 04's under warranty only unless there is a safety issue with the gauges themselves (as joatmon stated) or you encounter a defect in their operation. It is possible, if you desire, to purchase the 2004 gauges and have them installed in your 2003 Vibe (previously discussed here).Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»Complaining on a forum like this will probably have little effect on what the manufacturer does to correct problems, as much as we would like them to read all of our posts and actually be concerned about customer satisfaction. If there is a problem that you feel strongly about, then file a formal complaint, will put more force behind it.Fortunately compaining here, in particular, does actually work, however not immediately. Many problems exclusively discussed here have been addressed or is currently being addressed. Not saying this is the only place to complain (ie. NHTSA's site, etc.).

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:25 am

Quote, originally posted by NSimkins Â»Fortunately compaining here, in particular, does actually work, however not immediately. Many problems exclusively discussed here have been addressed or is currently being addressed. Not saying this is the only place to complain (ie. NHTSA's site, etc.).just my pervasive pessimism creeping out again. I often feel that the only benefit of complaining is the mental health advantage of getting it out of your system, not as a method for actual problem resolution I actually haven't had any problem with the car yet that I felt was serious enough to warrant a formal complaint. Do you know if GM plans to offer the updated light sensor/DRL module to owners of 2003 models? (free or at reduced cost ?)

Post by **NSimkins** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:33 am

Understood. Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»Do you know if GM plans to offer the updated light sensor/DRL module to owners of 2003 models? (free or at reduced cost ?)I was never given a 'firm' answer to that question yet. I'll see what I can find out and post a follow-up down the road. I'd consider this a minor issue when compared to the battery, cladding, etc. (still not huge in comparison, but still).

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Dec 04, 2003 2:42 am

I agree on the priority, there's a simple workaround (turn dash dimmer to full).

nkaltso · Post by **nkaltso** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 7:02 am

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»I agree on the priority, there's a simple workaround (turn dash dimmer to full). You could turn the dash switch to bright and accept what is wrong with your car, but I dont, if it is not working like it should I want it fixedYesturday when I picked up the car from the dealer to fix a broken seat and the DRL. The Zone rep was there I talked with him and the Service manager about my problem with the DRL. The Zone rep said that he did not know of a fix but will check. I got his name and number and let him know I was going to leave a complaint on the NHTSA web site. He mentioned that I had the right to do that, but unless there are more complants in to the NHTSA they will not conduct a campaign or recall Guess what I got a call this morning and what do you know there is a new DRL contorl modual out there to fix this issue for the 03. Its not a new dash, but so far it worked fine all day today even when shadows shine on it.. So there is offically a fix out there it all depends how you approach the dealer. Say what you want about writing a complaint on the NHTSA web site but if there is not complant on that site GM will never be forced to fix it.Good luck with your cars I hope this bit of info will help you

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 12:16 pm

nkaltso, it is great that you got the problem resolved. but really it's not a problem for me. I understand that you see it as a problem, a design flaw that you want corrected, and it really is great that your dealer took care of you and corrected your concerns. I didn't intend to dismiss your concerns, or say that it was a token issue, I meant that it was not an important issue for me since my dash never dims because I leave the dimmer control in full bright all the time.There are a lot of problems reported here that I just haven't had. My paint is holdong up, my continental tires are wearing very little, I don't get the egg smell, my clutch doesn't slip, my cladding looks as good as new (and I prefer the 03 rocker panels anyway), and aside from one slow crank morning, my battery seems to be holding up OK. I just haven't had a problem yet that I thought required that kind of action. Other people here have had problems that they thought were very important, and I agree with you. The genvibe admins have a great relationship with GM and address our concerns back to them, but if people have problems with the car, especially any safety related items, then they should document them, and nhtsa is a good place to do it. Looking over the complaints that have already been filed at nhtsa for Vibe and matrix, the one that would concern me the most is the idle/lunging issue that some people have reported with the auto tranny. However, I have the 5 speed and no problem with idle surges, or lunging. if I had the auto tranny, I'd be learning as much as possible about that problem, although it seems to have gotten more coverage on other forums than on genvibe, maybe it's more common in matrix, but I doubt it.Do you know if there is a similar agency like nhtsa for the canadian members?

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 1:33 pm

Quote, originally posted by nkaltso Â»Good luck with your cars I hope this bit of info will help you nkaltso, whatever happened with the low air flow problem you were working on in http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=1943? Did you ever get that one resolved?

nkaltso · Post by **nkaltso** » Fri Dec 05, 2003 9:55 pm

No not yet, the windows are fogging up again now sence it is colder out side, but I did not approch that issue like I did this one. I dont think I filed a complaint but I will be urging people to.I work on the supplier side of the auto business and complaints that turn into recall is one of the industrys biggest forms of profits. but if the Big 3 dont have to fix it they wont.

nkaltso · Post by **nkaltso** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 9:42 pm

I want to give everyone a quick update on how the new DRL unit the dealer installed for me under warrenty worked out.It is a sure fix. I now have no issue with the lights going on and off at the worng time under differnt lighting conditions. Im so happy with it because I have not even thought about the DRL darkening the gages and annoying me anymore.

sylvainber · Post by **sylvainber** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 12:34 am

I have a 2004 and i agree with NSimkins. My lights do come up and i never have an issue with the switching back and forth (mind you, the new gauge cluster colors help minimize any lighting intensity effect on visibility)the 15 seconds delay is no more either.i always drove my old car with headlights on during the day (added visibility to other drivers). i'm glad the new car does it for me.i have not manually turned my headlights on yet (in 5 weeks). the car has done the right thing every day/night since i took it home.so in brief, i must say that they fixed the bugs on the 2004.sylvain

Charlievibe · Post by **Charlievibe** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 3:19 am

Quote, originally posted by nkaltso Â»I want to give everyone a quick update on how the new DRL unit the dealer installed for me under warrenty worked out.It is a sure fix. I now have no issue with the lights going on and off at the worng time under differnt lighting conditions. Im so happy with it because I have not even thought about the DRL darkening the gages and annoying me anymore. nkaltso,Question...when I take my car into the dealer, do I specifically ask them to replace the DRL unit, or did you have a part number for it? And did they do it under warrenty? Thanks,CV

redlava · Post by **redlava** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:42 am

I called my dealer today to check on the sensor. The part number he gave me for the only one he had on the computer was #94857245. Is that the one for the new sensor or the old one?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:48 am

My understanding is that it is not the sensor that is being replaced, but the "brain" or module that reads the information from the sensor and determines whether to turn on the lights or not...

redlava · Post by **redlava** » Tue Feb 03, 2004 7:55 am

I see, I will have to check on that one tomorrow. Thanks Ragingfish.

johnsoax · Post by **johnsoax** » Sun Feb 08, 2004 2:56 pm

Anyone have any new news on this?