VVT and thick oil

[Vibraphone]

Stupid me. Do not do this.

After flushing the engine of my newly acquired 184K mi, one-owner 2006 Vibe (Moon & Tunes), with LiquiMoly, I proceeded to run 4qts of ‘cheap’ 5W-20 Synthetic (on sale NAPA), to flush out the flush.

After a few days driving with the ‘cheap’ flushing oil, I drained it, installed a new filter and poured in about 4.5qts of Mobil-1 10W-40 High Mileage Synthetic oil. I also added 8oz Militec-1 oil additive—as I’ve done to all 15 or so of my cars over the past 40yrs. It’s good stuff. But this is not the reason for this post.


At first, the engine sounded good. It was indeed quieter…. and smoother. But the car ran sluggish & struggled to shift as crisply as before adding the Mobil-1 10W-40 High Mileage oil.

“I’ll just run it ‘til it thins out” I estimated about 3K miles or so. No harm done. This ain’t a race car. If anything, it’ll help keep me within New York City’s new 25mph speed law.

But then, after a few weeks, upon startup, I’d hear a loud rattling sound, coming from the right side of the engine. It went away, after about 1min of warm-up. I was stumped? This is the first Asian car I’ve owned (I’ve never owned an American car), and I have spent my life working on many Benz, BMW, Volvo, VW, Peugeot….. I’ve never heard a sound like this?

After more investigation, it seems the noise was the Variable Valve Timing Solenoid, rattling, due to this damn thick oil not reaching the VVT upon start-up, causing it to rattle. And worse, likely rattling DRY!!! no oil.

Apparently, this gem of a car does not need “High Mileage” oil after only 185,000 miles.

I don’t want to do another full oil change, so I’m draining out 1qt & adding 1qt Mobil-1 5W-30 Extended Performance High Mileage oil to help thin the viscosity.

We’ll see if the rattle goes away.

[joatmon]

After flushing the engine of my newly acquired 184K mi, one-owner 2006 Vibe (Moon & Tunes), with LiquiMoly, I proceeded to run 4qts of ‘cheap’ 5W-20 Synthetic (on sale NAPA), to flush out the flush.

After a few days driving with the ‘cheap’ flushing oil, I drained it, installed a new filter and poured in about 4.5qts of Mobil-1 10W-40 High Mileage Synthetic oil.

...

I don’t want to do another full oil change, so I’m draining out 1qt & adding 1qt Mobil-1 5W-30 Extended Performance High Mileage oil to help thin the viscosity.

We’ll see if the rattle goes away.

for what its worth, toyota and GM say to use 5W-30. Not sure one quart of 5W-30 will thin out 3.5 quarts of 10W-40 enough. I'd recommend a full drain, but if you really don't want to do a full drain, then maybe one quart of 0W-20 might help compensate. but that's a quess, I'm not bob the oil guy, and not responsible for what might happen

Good luck.

[Mark]

No idea why you would think that 10W-40 was in any way a good idea in a 1zz-fe motor. I would dump it asap and refill with Mobil-1 0W-30. If you haven't read it yet, a good place to start is oil university 101.

https://bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

[Vibraphone]

I am a victim--as I'm sure many others are--of Mobil's marketing this special "High-Mileage" synthetic oil to people who's cars don't need it.

I'm sure there are many 20yr old junkers out there whose' motors once took 5W-30 and now might actually benefit from a thicker synthetic brew.

But from my own recent personal experience, a Toyota 4-banger with 185,000 miles is NOT considered "High Mileage." Likely, its just getting broken in

[joatmon]

I am a victim--as I'm sure many others are--of Mobil's marketing this special "High-Mileage" synthetic oil to people who's cars don't need it.

Mobil makes a full synthetic high mileage 5W-30

https://www.mobil.com/en/lubricants/for ... eage-5w-30

[ReddBoots79]

Would that be ok if you don't know the car's history? Mine's was st 127k-ish so I just used a 5W-30 synthetic blend instead.

[Mark]

My 2005 had 101k when when I bought it and I have no idea what oil had been run in it previously, but first oil change I did was with Mobil-1 0W-30 and a WIX synthetic filter. And a Fumoto drain valve.

[joatmon]

Would that be ok if you don't know the car's history? Mine's was st 127k-ish so I just used a 5W-30 synthetic blend instead.

That' fine. No worries

the 5W-30 is more important than synthetic/conventional/blend. The big selling point of synthetic is they say you don't need to change your oil as frequently, but you should do it more often than what the synthetic oil advertises.

There are a lot of differing opinions on oil, oil filter, change intervals, etc. Some may be better, but as long as you meet the GM/Toyota recommendations you should be fine.

And remember that no matter who changes your oil, whether you do it yourself, have a buddy do it, or take it to a "professional", periodically check for oil level, new leaks, etc. Everybody makes mistakes

[ReddBoots79]

Thanks. I check things over once a week. A habit developed growing up with a clunker

[Vibraphone]

Replaced my 2006 Vibe OE VVT solenoid today.

Nothing wrong. Just simple every-18yr-preventative-maintenance. After 186K miles. VVT was functional. I know it was original, as 1st owner’s 16pg CarFax included much more than fastidious oil changes. A VVT wasn’t on his list.

But after much research, it seems all Toyota VVT solenoids (and likely VVT solenoids for most cars) are many in China. Including--but not able to conclusively prove--DENSO VVT solenoids are made in their China factory. So, off to AliExpress I went and $17 and 11 days later I got a great looking OEM VVT. It has DENSO printed on the case + 15330-22030 under the type. A very nicely made Chinese part, I must say. Is it a “counterfeit” or just another OE part made by a third party?

[ I sold my last Benz in 2017, after working on ‘em since the mid-1960’s. I smiled after picking up a water pump for my W124 car at the Benz dealer (with my 10% discount). The water pump came in the classic blue box and was “Made in Slovenia.” The thermostat was “Made in Brazil.” So much for premium OE dealer parts. No doubt the factory that made these “Genuine Mercedes Benz Parts” also sold gadzillions of the same parts to regular folks -- in little brown boxes – for A LOT LE$$ ]

Back to the Vibe’s 1ZZ-FE. Compared to the 18yr old orig VVT, and the new VVT from China, they are identical. Orig solenoid has 15330-22030 cast into the plastic tab. New solenoid has 15330-22030 printed on the case.

Before installing the new VVT solenoid, I spent a few hours soaking & cleaning the 18yr old one. Lacquer thinner soak, acetone, parts cleaner spray + lots of compressed air.

Once cleaned up, visually, both new & old VVT solenoids looked & functioned similarly. But upon careful inspection, here’s what 18yrs will do to one of these solenoids—that is absent from the new one:

Noticeably weaker spring on the 18yr old one, at the bottom, pushing the plunger up. Basically a return spring, as the oil really does most of the work. No surprise, pushing plunger down with jeweler screwdriver, easy to feel new solonoid has a stiffer spring.

Hooked up to 12V, both old & new VVT solenoids make a snappy “click” sound when activated. But the new solenoid has a noticeably louder & more snappy click.

Slight scaring on all(3) plunger ‘rings’ Simple wear, but evidence that 18yrs of constant use does create visible wear on the hardened polished surfaces. New VVT plunger has a mirror finish.

Brown oil ‘varnish’ that even Acetone can’t remove. In my experience, oil baked into the metal. Despite dozens of documented oil changes in this car’s 18yr life. Being high up in the head casting, with no coolant tubes, that little VVT solenoid is under extreme heat constantly. Hot oil is the only thing keeping it cool as it moves up & down.

Note: No oil leaks from VVT solenoid O-ring. Dry as an 18yr old bone. When I replaced the O-ring, I discarded the one that came with the new solenoid and treated it to a FKM (Fluorocarbon) O-ring, for high temperature applications -- slathered with MolyKote-55, which helps swell O-rings.

I also replaced the tiny oil strainer below the VVT solenoid. The old one (tiny micro screen) was just as oil varnished as the solenoid but was perfectly functional after a cleaning. Toyota part#15678-21010. $13. When I do a job, I like to do it once.

All this said, it’s likely the only one who will notice any improvement from this little $30 planned maintenance exercise is the ECM.

[lexicon]

I had the opposite happen.
My VVT rattle started at 120k miles, the rattle remained for approx 2 years, would only happen on start up and after troubleshooting I decided to use Mobil 1 High mileage oil. 5-30 . Within 3k miles, the rattle went away , never to return...... my guess is that the detergents in the Hi Mileage formula cleaned up some clearances on the VVT parts which allowed it to return to normal. Note, I have always used the Mobil 1 synthetic oil in this vehicle.... Now has over 260k miles.... no rattle...

[ReddBoots79]

That's good to hear. Mine just started doing that, after an odd periodic "growl" sound.

What's confusing is why GM notes that 5W-20 is preferred but Toyota recommends 0W-20. In fact, they (Toyota) go as far as noting to use 5-20 only if 0-20 isn't available and switch back in the next change.

Mine is the 09 base for the record with the 2ZR-FE. I know GM made mistakes with the manual with the ATF and coolant types.

[ReddBoots79]

I changed the oil with a mere 3k interval as the rattle became more frequent. Opted for full synthetic high mileage 0W-20 and after a mere week, I've only had the one odd mild "growl" of a rattle. I drove for about 4 hours at highway speeds within a day or so of the change.

[lexicon]

Vibraphone....
Looks like on your other related post, the VVT rattle went away.
You may wanna go w Penzoil Ultra Platinum 5-30 or Mobil One Extended Performance.....
Ive been using Mobil one High mileage on my now 264k engine and, "knock on wood" no rattle , no problem....
Wishing you well on your Vibe