2007 Cranks but no start

[joshbk]

CamSensor.JPG (39.63 KiB) Viewed 1495 times

My daily driver, a 2007 base vibe, died on me when I was out on an errand. It died earlier that day but I was able to start it back up. The second time it died, the engine would crank but would not start again. The only code that had previously been displayed was the P0016. When I was waiting for a ride I walked to the auto store and bought a new camshaft sensor. After that was replaced I would get P0341 but still no start. Had to tow the car home and now I am trying to troubleshoot before I decide if I should repair it or not.
The engine turns over and sounds like it's just about to start every 6-7 times it cranks. I took out a spark plug and held it close to the metal head cover while my son cranked the engine and I could see no spark. I found some information on the camshaft/crankshaft sensor circuit and I would like to check the wiring from the ECM connector. I pulled the connectors but I could not see a label on any of the connectors which would tell me what I needed. Does anyone have a good picture of the connector side for which I need to measure the resistance?

[joatmon]

I attached the 03 matrix PDF for P0340, shows the ECM pinout for NE+, NE- and G22+. Pretty good chance it applies to your 07 Vibe

Forum says when you joined and that this is your first post, so 13 years too late, but Welcome to GenVibe!

If you get it fixed, let us know what it took

[joshbk]

Thanks for the quick response.
Yes, I have not had any issues with my Vibe until recently. I have about 140k miles and have not had too many issues.
Thanks for the diagram. So when I look at my ECM it appears that the connectors are upside down from the picture below. Is there some way to verify I am testing the right connector? I guess I can measure and then disconnect the camshaft sensor and see if it's open (assuming it's not open to begin with). I'll try and take a picture of the ECU with the connectors. Based on the picture the tabs are all I have to determine which connector to pull?

Plug.JPG (33.21 KiB) Viewed 1490 times

[andrewclaus]

Orient the picture using the locking tab, and the larger set of contacts along the "top" row. And when you unplug the connector to look at the contacts, everything will be mirror imaged. You'll also notice that the four connector bodies are slightly different--each has a different number of contacts. You can use that feature to be sure you have the right connector body.

[joshbk]

OK, so I finally got some time to try and troubleshoot the wiring. It appears that my ECM is upside down from the picture.

ECM.jpg (55.49 KiB) Viewed 1454 times

I thought I pulled out the right connector and measured the resistance between NE+ and NE-. However when I went to measure between NE- and G22 and nothing. I then noticed there are actually no wires where I thought G22+ should be.

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Wire.jpg (48.56 KiB) Viewed 1454 times

I wish there was a better way to verify the wire connector and pins. Am I looking at the wrong connector or pins?
I am tempted just to replace the ECM since. Maybe I'll try and unplug the battery for a while to try and reset things and then try to restart.

[joshbk]

OK so I did some internet searching for 2007 Toyota matrix ECU terminals and I think I found the correct pin out. I'll have to try it tonight.
http://automotorpad.com/toyota/272460-t ... inout.html

ECUconnector.JPG (44.19 KiB) Viewed 1452 times

[joatmon]

You can tell that you are testing the right connector because of the connector keys, the notches in the connector plastic bodies that prevent plugging them into the wrong spot

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You can see that only one of the four has a wide notch next to only two pins (the leftmost connector in the pic above) That diagram is of the connectors on the ECM, the cable end connector is a mirror image

I cut out that part of the pic, mirrored it, rotated it some to line it up better with your pic, and put it on the pic you posted showing which pins you were testing.

wiretest1.jpg (32.99 KiB) Viewed 1452 times

Pretty sure you have the orange wire in pin NE- and the black wire in pin NE+ According to the wire diagram you posted, that would be testing the crankshaft position sensor, to test the camshaft sensor, you'd need to measure between G22 and NE- (move the black lead one pin to the right)

[joshbk]

Yes, I tried moving the wire to the right but got nothing then I looked at the back and there were no wires where I thought G22 should be.
I had another thought...I think most of the wiring pictures are from 2003. Could it be possible that there is a difference between the ECM/ECU wiring from 2003 to 2007? I found a 2007 wire diagram for a corolla that is slightly different. Is the corolla ECM/ECU the same for 07?

[joatmon]

Interesting
The wiring diagram you posted in your first post above matches the 2003 Matrix wiring diagram. I also have an official paper service manual for a 2003 Pontiac Vibe, and the connections for the crank and cam sensors match the diagram above. Connector "A", with cam between pins 26 & 34, crank between 27 & 34

However, I found a Toyota Matrix wiring diagram for 2004-2007 at cardiagn.com and its different

ecmplug4-7.jpg (56.49 KiB) Viewed 1444 times

shows crank between pins 25 & 33, cam between 24 & 33, but on connector B
Your picture shows no wires on pins 25, 26, or 33 for connector "A" . Also, both Toyota diagrams and my Vibe diagram indicate that the common return for the sensors is a white wire, and the other wire for each sensor is black.

Maybe its different between the 03's and 04-07's Does it look like there's black wires in pins 24 & 25 in the wire bundle for what your pin number diagram calls "E4"?

[joshbk]

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OK, so I have now verified the camshaft sensor wires are OK. I also verified that the 2004-2007 wire diagram for the matrix is the correct one. The wire color at the computer does not match but the wire color at the sensor is black and white. I verified wiring is correct by disconnecting the sensor and then connecting it again. ECU connector pins 24 and 33 were open circuit with the sensor disconnected.
I also noticed the battery terminals did not look good so I replaced with battery terminals. Still no start. I will do a few more basic troubleshooting items but I am leaning toward buying a new computer. Is there a recommended place to buy a computer? Looks like refurbished ones are around $200.

[joshbk]

Well I have some bad news...Still not fixed.
After removing my alternator I was finally able to test the crankshaft sensor. The sensor and wiring all seemed good. I checked the continuity from the connector back to the computer connector.
I finally got a replacement computer and installed it. Instructions were to connect an OBDII adapter with the ignition on for 30 minutes. I am assuming this was due to the immobilizer. After that, I tried to start the car but still got the same condition as the old computer. Now I am getting the P0341 camshaft sensor error.
That leaves only the camshaft timing! I am ready to give up and put it on the market for parts as I don't know if it is worth fixing. I hope I can get my money back for the ECM. Does anyone have experience with timing issues? I'll search the forum.

[andrewclaus]

That code does not indicate a timing fault, rather a position sensor low input. If you trust the sensor and the harness and the ECM, the only thing left is the reluctor ring on the intake camshaft. I'd remove the valve cover and check that out before giving up.

[joshbk]

I did take the valve cover off initially cause I was hoping it was just the ring as you said however when I saw there was no ring to adjust, just a camshaft with a knob for the sensor. I did not go further when I saw I would have to deal with camshaft timing.

reluctorRing.jpg (85.26 KiB) Viewed 1361 times

I did not want to mess with the camshaft. I should have checked the timing however it was hard to see the crankshaft mark. I don't feel comfortable doing anything with the timing chain so I will probably just get rid of the vibe. Hate to see it go but its been sitting since October.

[joatmon]

In viewtopic.php?t=48366 AceBoyd93 had a similar problem with his 09 that turned out to be the wiring harness connector on the cam sensor