Rattle/whine on cold start

[Rexter]

2003 with 293,000 miles.


I’ve recently noticed a rattle at cold start until oil pressure builds…maybe a second or so. Sometimes I think I can hear the rattle after the engine cools for an hour or so, but I think my mind is fooling me. After the rattle goes away, I get a whine that sounds like a power steering pump. The whine goes away when the engine reaches operating temp.

I’ve read threads until I’m cross-eyed. My bike has a cam chain tensioner that is oil-pressure activated. It rattles at cold start for half a second. No whining noises. The whine is rpm related, but not steering related. No change when turning the wheels.

I’m wondering if a remote filter mount and a pre-lube pump might be a cure.

I’m not gonna give up on the car. It’s been a great vehicle with zero issues until about 290K.

[Caretaker]

yep, the car has certainly fulfilled its duty. The grind at start up has been mostly attributed to either the timing gear actuator or the starter. Obviously the starter noise should only occur for a second at startup, especially on cold, moist mornings. It has been awhile since I've studied the actuator noise, although GM dealerships were once swapping them out as a course of action per the technical service bulletin, and often throwing parts at the wrong noise as dealerships do best.

[lexicon]

m

Ive had my 2005 Vibe for 230k miles. Started to rattle around 120k miles. Have used Mobil 1 Synthetic for the life of the vehicle. Have traced what I thought was a rattle to a loose exhaust manifold shield. Tightened that and rattle did not go away. I replaced the chain tensioner at the top back of engine...no change in rattle. the rattle only came on during the cold and at low oil pressure at up. I have spent hours on the internet and my conclusion is that its the VVTi rattle.
I lived with it until I had a small oil leak and decided to change to Mobil 1 High Mileage oil 10-30 .
I now have driven 5k miles on that oil change and am down about 3/4 qt since I filled the oil at the last change. I have not had the rattle return since the day I changed the oil this last time.
Dont ask me why , it doesnt make sense but so far I have not had the rattle return. I live on the west coast .
If my rattle returns, I will update this post.....
Does anyone know of a toyota 1.8 L engine fail due to the VVTi rattle. In all of my reading, I have not read of anyone whose engine has failed...Let me know if you find otherwise.
Good luck

[Caretaker]

Since many Toyotas across their line were/are plagued by this issue, I took this off of the ToyotaNation.com website:

Description of Problem:
The subject vehicles are equipped with a Variable-Valve Timing (VVT) system which controls the camshafts to provide optimal valve timing under certain driving conditions. The bolts used to secure the housing and sprocket of the intake-side VVT gear assembly could become loose due to abnormal impacts generated within the gear assembly immediately after a cold start-up.

If this occurs, the VVT gear will not control the intake valves correctly. In certain cases, the VVT gear housing and sprocket could separate and result in the engine stopping while the vehicle is being driven, increasing the risk of a crash.

Toyota theorized that the condition could be related to an engine noise issue at start-up being investigated on certain engines. The VVT internal component could rattle when the lock-pin, which latches to the VVT housing and secures the internal components to maintain the camshaft in the most delayed position, unlatches at cold-start. Toyota conducted reproduction testing and was able to duplicate noise but was unable to duplicate the loose bolts condition.

Through reproduction testing, Toyota confirmed that, with the lock-pin disengaged during a cold engine start, the impact force between the VVT internal component and the housing could become larger if engine oil, which is pumped into the VVT unit to control the position of the camshaft, drains back into the oil pan while parked. In addition, Toyota theorized that the impact force varies in specific engine types due to cam profile and intake valve spring load. Toyota continued its investigation and testing to clarify the relationship between the impact force exerted inside the VVT housing at cold-start and bolt loosening.

[lexicon]

Great info Caretaker
In your searches, have you read on any Vibe or Corolla forum using the same 1.8 L engine of any actual serious engine damage attributed to the VVTi issue? I have not found any such serious issues... Just asking.
Thanks for providing that info

Addendum: in Caretakers post below, he mentions the VVTi solenoid, there is an excellent video on one persons efforts to remove and clean it . There are other comments in the thread regarding erratic idle issues. I am posting this as an informational note, by the way, cleaning the solenoid and its filter did not fix this fellows idle....he sold the car and was unable to trace down the problem. Thanks again Caretaker for more info on the topic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SlZkIhRNZHA

[Caretaker]

if the variable valve timing solenoid does not provide adequate oil to the timing chain, it could result in a rare but logical occurrence of the timing chain breaking, and in seconds, ruining your engine. Hopefully one of our mechanics on this board can shed some light.

[MisterD]

I know this thread is old, but reading this, I see a possible explanation why changing the oil type fixed the rattle.

From Toyota Nation thread post above, Toyota found that the rattle occurred: "...if engine oil, which is pumped into the VVT unit to control the position of the camshaft, drains back into the oil pan while parked. "

You switched from Mobil 1, viscosity not stated, but presumably the specified 5W-30, to a High Mileage 10W-30. A 10W oil will run back to the pan slower with the engine off, which could avoid the situation identified by Toyota as causing the issue.

Any more news on this?

[lexicon]

I do not have a definitive answer.... I have changed the engine oil at least every 5-6k miles since the car was one year old and have always used synthetic. And, yes, I was using 5-30 viscosity previously.
the Hi Mileage Mobil One may have some cleaning properties the regular synthetic does not have, perhaps oil gallerys got cleaner ? Better flow ? Perhaps its the higher viscosity 10-30 I switched to .... I just know that I have not had the rattle come back .... based on what i could deduce, it was likely the VVTi issue.... it could also be from living a clean life.... but thats not likely : )

[Rexter]

Well….the engine croaked at 325K. I haven’t torn it down yet, but I’m pretty sure the timing system went south. It had a rattle upon deceleration, but would stop rattling with the slightest throttle pressure or putting the transmission in neutral and coasting. The last time it ran, the noise was similar to an old Detroit diesel cold start. The last time I tried to start it, it cranked over and sounded like it had no compression.

I’ve swapped in an ‘04 1zz from a Corolla with 94K on the odometer.
Everything was plug and play EXCEPT the a/c compressor. The Vibe hoses use a manifold, where the Corolla uses individual ports. I pulled the old engine, and didn’t open the system. I just laid the compressor toward the fan. It bolted to the block no problem. The belt from the Vibe is used. The Corolla a/c pulley is a little bit larger, so the belt is a hair longer.

The only things left to do are new motor mounts (forgot to order them before install), new trans lines at the trans (leaking at the flare fitting on the upper line), and power steering diagnosis.

The power steering quit….like light switch quit. I filled the res, ran it 4-5 secs, filled again. It was draining the res each time. On the 4th start, there was no p/s. No pump whining, noise, or anything. It is like it doesn’t have p/s. A couple of guys have mentioned cavitation in the pump, but it seems it would be whining. I’m going to crack the pressure line open and start it to see if it’s pushing fluid. If not, I may just replace the pump, rack, and lines.

Any thoughts are welcomed.