Attempt #4

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 6:41 am

Today there was actually a Vibe in my town for sale new, On the showroom floor at the local dealership. $20,260 Frosty Monotone, M&T, power packages.. I want my payment around $350. They said they would give me $7600 for my Sunfire (I owe that much) but they got the price to $14,010. That's taking $1000 of for loyalty, and $1000 of for the 0% or 1k, Plus my trade in. That's giving me 4k for my Sunfire, or what? My parents were getting agitated, and so I was leaving. Then he said what if he tried to get my Sfire paid off, they pay Tag, tax, and title, and then get my payments to $350. Sounded good to me but my parents were already annoyed by the salesman and we will think it over but really they just wanted out of there. I don't know what I will do? Im never going to own a vibe! Anyone like the new Sunfires??

x2nddavex · Post by **x2nddavex** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:07 am

i ditched my sunfire for my 03 Vibe GT. Personally lol i hated my sunfire and i hate the new sunfires. Trust me, keep talking to your rents, YOU WILL get your way, i did. And my payments are $350 month too = ). When i turned 18 my mom became the coolest person in the world, and got me $26,000 worth of loans lol. Vibe and new drums,, KEEP TRYING!

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 7:16 am

Im not in love with my sunfire or the new ones, but I want a Vibe! I can afford 350 a month but I have a feeling Im getting shafted? Salesman/dealerships make me nervous.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 11:58 am

I LOVED my Sunfire...but when I totaled it, I decided the Vibe was better for my needs...at first, I didn't like the new Sunfires...but on the outside, they're schweet...I don't like the dash that mimicks the GA though...New cloth is cool, and XM is definitely a

meathead333 · Post by **meathead333** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:07 pm

quote:Im not in love with my sunfire or the new ones, but I want a Vibe! I can afford 350 a month but I have a feeling Im getting shafted? Salesman/dealerships make me nervous. i pay $336, that was with nothing down, and thats with an extra $1000 tacked on due to autobody repair on my last gmac car due at turn in.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:08 pm

I think I'm at $250 a month maybe? Not sure...I don't see the payments...

meathead333 · Post by **meathead333** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:29 pm

quote:I think I'm at $250 a month maybe? Not sure...I don't see the payments...you put anything down?

good vibes · Post by **good vibes** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 12:37 pm

I've got payments of a nice easy $241 with 0% financing and a nice discount (my mom works for the dealership in Paramus, NJ) plus about $6000 down. God I love it.....

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Sat Aug 16, 2003 1:30 pm

quote:I think I'm at $250 a month maybe? Not sure...I don't see the payments...you put anything down?Yeah, but don't remember how much. LOL. I'm so bad with numbers!

jimincalif · Post by **jimincalif** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 8:21 am

You need to do your homework before you go to the dealer, so they can't fluster you with numbers. You need to know:1 - what is your Sunfire worth on trade? Use edmunds.com and kbb.com to obtain an estimated value.2 - what should the Vibe cost. According to Edmunds TMV, the $20260 sticker should sell for about $19,500.3 - what are the incentives? $1K loyalty, plus $1K cash-back or financing4 - what are the finance rates and what is your down payment?5 - what are your taxes and fees to be paid.Assume you get the Vibe for $19,500. Assume your Sunfire is worth exactly what you owe, assume you've got another $1,500 down. You get the loyalty cash, but you choose financing for 60 months at 3.9% (I think that is the deal on 04s.) Assume taxes, license, etc, will be 1800. So, your are financing the Vibe 19500 plus the fees, 1,800, less the loyalty $1,000 less the down $1,500 = 18,800. The payment on that for 60 months is $345/mo. The trade is a wash if they give you what you owe. But if the Sunfire should be worth more than you owe the diffference should reduce the amount financed above. And vice versa if you're upside down.Have all this stuff figured out and written down before you go in. Keep the trade value, the selling price, the incentives and the amount financed separate as you deal. Then you know exactly where you stand when negotiating.After you get your Vibe, keep it for 10 years, once it is paid for put the same payment away each month for the next car, then you'll be in good shape to negotiate a deal on 2014 model Vibe!

good vibes · Post by **good vibes** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 11:34 am

Ya know, the more I hear about it and think about it. why not look at a different car? After all it isn't a Corvette or a Mustang, it's a 4 banger Toyota in Pontiac clothing. Some things just aren't meant to be. I wanted a Nissan Pickup, but the dealership didn't help me and I chose the Vibe. Perhaps you too have to go for choice #2.

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 1:41 pm

well, The Vibe is my car of choice. Im a pontiac guy, I've had a Grand Prix and a Sunfire that I love. Would love an Fbird but it would not be a wise choice to make. 1 - what is your Sunfire worth on trade? Worth real low, but they will pay it off at trade. $7600 is what I owe.2 - what should the Vibe cost. $20260 3 - what are the incentives? 1k for loyalty, and 1k rebate (or low fin.)4 - what are the finance rates and what is your down payment? 10% and 0 down payment 5 - what are your taxes and fees to be paid? They will pay Tag, Tax & Title

Vibe Rater · Post by **Vibe Rater** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 3:33 pm

10% finance rate? Was he smokin' a big cigar and cleaning his gun? That's why your payment is so high. Get that rate down.

Jahntassa · Post by **Jahntassa** » Sun Aug 17, 2003 10:05 pm

If it's a 2004, current incentives top out at 3.9% for 60 months. 2003s are negotiable..but most people who got it in the last couple of months had 0% everywhere..

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 1:39 am

I come out with lower payments if I take the 3.9 instead of 1k rebate. I have no clue why our bank rate is so high? At 10%, I will pay the 1k rebate right back througth interest.

jimincalif · Post by **jimincalif** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 4:30 am

>1 - what is your Sunfire worth on trade? Worth real low, but they will pay it off at trade. $7600 is what I owe.You need to know the number, if it is worth $5K, then somewhere the dealer has to make up 2600, you want to know where.>2 - what should the Vibe cost. $20260 Huh? Never pay sticker.>4 - what are the finance rates and what is your down payment? 10% and 0 down payment 10%? GM offers 3.9/60 on 2004s in lieu of $1K rebate>5 - what are your taxes and fees to be paid? They will pay Tag, Tax & TitleAgain, what's the number? Even though they say they will pay it, you need to know the numbers to know what sort of deal you are making.@ 3.9%, 350/mo will support a loan of 19,051. @ 10%, it will support a loan of just 16,473.

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 11:47 am

I think I will go for the low finance rate. Am I able to take that I heard not all can qualify.

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:03 pm

For 60 months, It's 3.9. Makes a cheaper payment. All I get is 1k off for loyalty in the incentative/rebate area.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:20 pm

quote:I think I will go for the low finance rate. Am I able to take that I heard not all can qualify. you may not qualify by yourself, but i thought your folks were co-signing? they may qualify for it. if not, then check with your local credit unions. no way should you be paying 10% on a new car loan with the exception of:1. you have a bankruptcy on your credit2. you have current delinquent balances or payments on your sunfire3. you have had anything repossessed or on the verge or repossession4. you have collection accountseven a new car buyer with little to no credit history, with a decent to strong co-signer should get about 5.9-8.9% financing. if your folks have good credit, then you should be able to get even less. car shopping is a numbers game; once you know the numbers, you know exactly what you're paying and to whom.

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 12:20 pm

How much should I take off the sticker?

Mathew_M · Post by **Mathew_M** » Mon Aug 18, 2003 3:20 pm

Here's what I got:2004 Satellite monotone with Automatic, power and moon & tunes packages.$19900 sticker$15700 paid=$4200 off sticker. Broken down: Salesman took $1100 off sticker, $2000 in Rebates and my parents had $1100 transferrable on their GM credit card. I put $10,000 down and did a 36 month financing term at 5.99% through GMC. My monthly payments are $172. Better yet the Vibe saves me on insurance. Even after adding collision ($250 deductible) my payment every six months is a little over $400.

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:22 am

My payments need to be under $350. It will be a 60 month note and I think Im going to take the 3.9 finance rate instead of the 1k back. Wish they still had the good deals the used to awhile back on these.

meathead333 · Post by **meathead333** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:26 am

quote:Here's what I got:2004 Satellite monotone with Automatic, power and moon & tunes packages.$19900 sticker$15700 paid=$4200 off sticker. Broken down: Salesman took $1100 off sticker, $2000 in Rebates and my parents had $1100 transferrable on their GM credit card. I put $10,000 down and did a 36 month financing term at 5.99% through GMC. My monthly payments are $172. Better yet the Vibe saves me on insurance. Even after adding collision ($250 deductible) my payment every six months is a little over $400. how old are you??

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 8:57 am

17.. Im going to try and make the deal with my parents on the car tomorrow, So keep your fingers crossed for me!

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:24 am

good luck! hope you get your vibe!

meathead333 · Post by **meathead333** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:31 am

whered you get 10G's from? wish i had that money when i was 17, lol

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:34 am

i think he said his grandparents are giving it to him on his 18th birthday in november?

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:44 am

yup. It's actually 11k for a car for college, but Im only putting 10k on the car so I can use the extra 1k for down payment on apartment and some necesities. My parents don't like the idea of letting me get a new car (This will be my 6th) and the high payment.

meathead333 · Post by **meathead333** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:49 am

quote:yup. It's actually 11k for a car for college, but Im only putting 10k on the car so I can use the extra 1k for down payment on apartment and some necesities. My parents don't like the idea of letting me get a new car (This will be my 6th) and the high payment. you've had 6 new cars??? wow

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:55 am

well, initially your payments will be higher, but then when you turn 18 and refinance your Vibe, the payments will decrease drastically! i had a loan for $5900 for 36 months at 7.5% awhile ago. my payments were $130 or something. not very much at all. make sure you get your first payment out a min of 45 days. that'll be October 1 when your first payment is due and when you turn 18, go to the bank and refinance. as long as you have a decent job for a while, the bank should approve you. good way to decrease your payments and build good credit history at the same time! good credit is VERY important. i know... i work at a collection agency now and as a loan officer before that.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 11:58 am

quote:you've had 6 new cars??? wowi think he means this will be his 6th car and it will be new?this is my 6th car and my 4th new. i'm 25. 6th car new or not, at age 17/18.... that's setting yourself up for a lifetime of debt.... or he's not been the one making the payments.one day i will own a car that is completely paid off and be HAPPY!

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:12 pm

lol Hopefully one day I will own one paid off that I will still like. I make my own car payments and if I could build credit up for myself at 17 (can I?) I would. I don't know if my parents will go with me to the car lot and make a deal, They are kinda fed up with all the vibe talk I do I drive by twice a day to look at my vibe, It' just screams out to me to come and get it out of there!

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:29 pm

quote:lol Hopefully one day I will own one paid off that I will still like.hey, i understand. my tundra was the only vehicle i owned for longer than 13 months that i still LOVED. and that was only because i put over $10K in a/m parts into it. i still miss it very much whenever i see big mud puddles and rocky terrain. ...sniff... quote:I make my own car payments and if I could build credit up for myself at 17 (can I?) I would. I don't know if my parents will go with me to the car lot and make a deal, They are kinda fed up with all the vibe talk I do I drive by twice a day to look at my vibe, It' just screams out to me to come and get it out of there! no, you must be of legal age to sign a contract or legally separated from your parents. in otherwords, you have to be able to claim yourself on taxes and no one else can claim you as a dependant. if they sign for the Vibe, they must be there to do the paperwork. if they say they will work with you, then get it in writing, how much they will give you for teh Sunfire, price of the Vibe, and final price to be financed. they may not talk to you since you're not the final decision maker.

billabong_star · Post by **billabong_star** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:47 pm

Oh those Tundras are sooo nice, my truck of choice if I got one! I understand car financing a little, but when I went to make a deal the other day I got a little lost. They said they will pay Tag Tax & Title, and pay my Sunfire off, but they only gave me 4k for the Sfire when I owe 7600? The sticker was 20260, They took 1k off for loyalty, and 1k off for rebate, and for my sunfire, It came down to 14010. ?? My payments would have been 370-390... Im still a little confused as to what they did. Anyone enlighten me or tell me It's fishy. I have a Gm Supplier Price certificate that they say Im not allowed to use. I dont want to walk away bowlegged if you know what I mean.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:35 pm

what you need to keep in mind is that they are not giving you anything extra for the sunfire. if they give you $7600 and that's what you owe, then it's a wash. that brings you to $0 down. then they give you $1000 loyalty and $1000 rebate=$2000. do you have money to put down? the $20K price they say the Vibe is, does that include the tag, tax, and title? if they say they pay it, then you will pay it somewhere in the price. if they give you full retail value of the sunfire, then they aren't going to give you any discounts on the vibe. they have to make up cost for taking in a vehicle that will be difficult to sell. it's smoke and mirrors. we have a dealer mark up here that usually equates to 10% of the sale. i have never paid that. i actually paid only $500 less than msrp for my vibe gt monotone. i had no money down, no trade in because i sold my tundra first. i used the $400 gm grad certificate to pay the dealer doc fees ($399). we have no tax here. i financed $22K and took the 1.9% financing for 72 months. my payments come out to $331/month. why are the payments so high if the total price is $14K? something is not adding up correctly! even at a high finance rate, your payments should still be less. talk to your parents. go to a credit union and get pre-approved for a new vehicle. see what rates they give you. if your folks are signing, then you should be able to get about 5.9% for 60n months on a new car. if you go on pontiac's site, use the build your own feature. find out what the real msrp is from the factory. they should have a payment calculator on there too to figure out what your costs are. do some research on pricing before you go talk numbers at the dealership. arm yourself with the the NADA blue book values for your trade. that's what the banks use, not edmunds or kelley. take the wholesale price and trade-in price. usually the dealership will give you closer to wholesale on your trade. that's how they jack the price up (msrp) for the vibe to make up loss on the trade. anything extra you have in the sunfire, nice stereo, subs, wheels, etc, take off. the bank/dealer won't give you anything for them and chances are someone will be taking them home with them at night. if the dealership has a fleet department, then go there and ask them. also, check out dealerships in near by towns that may sell over the internet. i bought my 4th car, 2000 mercury cougar, from a dealer in seattle. i paid just $200 over invoice and had it shipped to me for $1100. still saved myself $3000! check out dave smith auto in Kellog, ID. he sells cars over the internet all the time. also, i think you said DFW isn't too far from you either, maybe a half day's drive. well worth talking to a dealer there. believe me, you have tons more options than i do in Alaska! if this isn't the time to buy a vibe, then it's better to wait. don't appear so desperate or the dealer will screw you over. you may as well grab your ankles.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:39 pm

check this link to NADA. it will help you alot. http://www3.nadaguides.com/

fuel4soul · Post by **fuel4soul** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 2:58 pm

I've played with payment calculators all month, and my payments are lower also when I figure it up. What would you reccomend I do/say when I walk in with my Sunfire? You have been soo much help so far - Thanks a bunch!!

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Tue Aug 19, 2003 3:41 pm

first off, did you figure out what the NADA value is on the sunfire? if not, then you want to do that before anything else. then you may want to take it a few different dealerships and ask them what they will give you to buy it from you. they should give you a slip of paper that is good for 30 days. that is the cash price, real price the dealer is going to give you. think of it this way: the vibe you want has a sticker price of $20K. the dealer paid $18K. that's $2K for them to play with. now, GMAC is offering cash rebates of $2K total. most dealers want to make a min of $500 on their car. now, in walks a trade in. you have a car that must be paid off at $7600. your car is only worth (cash value or wholesale) $7K. now i'm making these numbers up, so you'll need to fill in what NADA says your car is worth (trade in-wholesale price). that means you are really over $600. not only is the cash price less than what you owe, the dealer now has to take in your vehicle, clean it up, and then try and sell IT at a profit. hmm.... do you see why the trade in isn't always so good. they get rid of one car, but then take in another one that is harder to sell. even so, maybe they'll give you a little off the vibe sticker, say $19K, pay off your Sunfire, and give you the cash rebate of $2K. that still leaves $17K to finance. from what you say earlier, they told you $14K final including pay off for the sunfire. that means, somehow, somewhere, the real price of the Vibe is $16K. something isn't right. you want the bottom line price tag of how much you have to finance: (Vibe price + Sunfire pay off) - Sunfire trade - cash rebates = total Vibe price. then you need to add all fees and taxes to see what you really have to pay. once you get that, then you have to take the final $ and calculate your payments depending on rate and term. is this a base monotone or gt, awd, auto? what are you dealing with? $20K for a base monotone seems awfully high to me. i think they're yanking your chain. if you do go into the dealership, make them write it all down. don't be afraid to walk. another thing to remember: the salesman has nothing to do with price. when he goes into the back to "talk to the manager to see what we can do" really means "i'm going to talk to my buddy, get something to drink, make it look like i'm actually doing something." the finance manager, the bean counter, he's the one that knows how much he can sell the car, how much is invested in it and what they think they will get from your trade. ask friends and neighbors who have bought from the dealer who they used. this can sometimes give you an "in."sorry so long, but i hate seeing people get hosed. as a fellow salesperson, i take great offense to those that call themselves salesman and lie thru their teeth to get a sale. that's a different topic... good luck, young one.

jimincalif · Post by **jimincalif** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 1:58 am

quote:I've played with payment calculators all month, and my payments are lower also when I figure it up. What would you reccomend I do/say when I walk in with my Sunfire? You have been soo much help so far - Thanks a bunch!!With all due respect, you are not prepared to walk into the dealer, you will get hosed. Re-read carefully the recent messages from others and my message on the first page as to what you need to know before you go in.Have you gone to edmunds.com and kbb.com to get a trade price on your sunfire? You have to know this to evaluate your deal. Read everything on edmunds.com about the buying process. If you can find the April issue of Consumer Reports, get it and read about the buying process. Get all the numbers in my first message worked out and then you will know before you go to the dealer exactly what you should pay.This probably sounds too much like a parent talking, I know. But I'm 45, I've done this a few times. I have a Toyota Previa, a Lexus ES 300 and a 03 Salsa Monotone GT Vibe - all paid for.My Vibe deal - Sticker $21,000. Dealer selling price negotiated $18,500 before any rebates. The subtract the $2,000 rebate, the subract my $3500 GM Blue Card rebate points. Final price $13K plus tax and license. Wrote a check.Now, I don't expect someone 17 to be able to pay cash, I did not pay cash for my first car (Fiat 128 3P). You make your own payments, and you know what you can pay, that's great. Use the free tools on the internet to get the rest of your information so you can be an informed buyer.

fuel4soul · Post by **fuel4soul** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:11 am

Sticker price on the vibe I want is $20260. My sunfire value according to NADA is $6,500 trade-in and private party of $8,225. I can get 1k off the sticker for GM (Pontiac) Loyalty, and also 3.9 financing. My monthly payment I want to be under $350. I also have a GM Supplier price certificate I got from michealgt that they tell me I can't use..? It would save me 2k if I could use it.

fuel4soul · Post by **fuel4soul** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:17 am

I looked at the Edmunds.com buying guides and found the True Market Value for the Vibe.. but priced with all the options doesn't add up to $20260. It's only $18101, So either it has more on it that I know of that I doubt, or the dealer has it priced WAY over TMV or MSRP? which wouldn't suprise me.

etoop · Post by **etoop** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:39 am

I compared the prices at Edmunds.com and they were about right... MSRP was slightly higher then the sticker prices I'm seeing...I've talked to serveral dealers... I'm getting the GM supplier discount and it is only about 1300 for the vibe. Not a lot of markup.

jimincalif · Post by **jimincalif** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:40 am

quote:Sticker price on the vibe I want is $20260. My sunfire value according to NADA is $6,500 trade-in and private party of $8,225. I can get 1k off the sticker for GM (Pontiac) Loyalty, and also 3.9 financing. My monthly payment I want to be under $350. I also have a GM Supplier price certificate I got from michealgt that they tell me I can't use..? It would save me 2k if I could use it.OK, now we're making progress. So you owe 1100 more on the sunfire than it is worth. Now, what is the tax and license for the Vibe in your state?On the edmunds site, be sure you're looking at the right column, there is invoice, sticker and TMV. You should be able to match the sticker to the dollar, the dealers don't mess with that. The TMV is a guideline for what the going selling price should be based on transaction data they get. It is not 100% perfect, but if you get TMV or less you are doing OK most of the time.I got about 19,500 for an 04 Vibe stickered out at 20,260. Get the tax and license numbers for your state and you will be able to put this together.

fuel4soul · Post by **fuel4soul** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:12 am

Not sure where to find those out, Any websites where I can? ty

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:36 am

a quick google found http://www.oktax.state.ok.us/mvhome.htmlLooks like to register a new car in Oklahoma, there's the following feesTitle fee - $11Registration - $91 (probably the same as "tags")Excise tax - 3.25% of sale price with a note that says * Effective July 1, 2002, the excise tax will be assessed at $20.00 on the 1st $1500.00 of value + 3.25% of the remainder) If like Maryland, the tax is calculated before rebates, and after trade in/other deals.If the pre-rebate price is $19.500, then tax would be $20 + 18,000*0.0325 = $605. Add in the $102 tags/title and you come up with tax/tags/title = $707.At least that's what it looks like to me, being a non-Sooner with a guess at the sale price and no experience in registering cars in Oklahoma.The web site has some phone numbers you could call to ask for better answers.

jimincalif · Post by **jimincalif** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:02 am

OK, taking joatmon's tax figures, if they sell you the car at 19,500 and give you low book on your trade this is what you get:Vibe price 19,500 + taxes 707 + upside down sunfire 1,100 less $1K rebate = $20,307. At 3.9% for 60 months the payment is 373.So, if you want a payment of 350, you need to get the deal down another 1,256, either get them to come down on the Vibe price, up on the trade in, sell the trade in yourself, or wait a few months and save up a down payment. Alternatively, look around for an 03. Another $1K rebate available and they are more flexible on the price. That's how I got another 2500 off mine, bought an 03 in June, and had been following it for 2 months on GMbuypower, so I knew it had been sitting for a while. Of course you run the risk of them selling it out from under you, but if you don't NEED it now and can be patient, it can pay off big time.If you don't NEED it now, offer them 18K even on the 04 Vibe (after rebate) ask for 7600 on the trade and the 3.9/60 financing. You would then finance $18707 (with taxes and the trade is a wash) and the payment would be 343. This leaves you $7/month or about $400 overall to come up in price in negotiations. Again, if you can't get them to go for this and you don't NEEd the car now, then leave the dealership. Be sure they have your phone #, as they may call later and agree to the deal.I don't know anything about the other GM discount you mentioned that they say you can't use, but you might want to verify that independently from someone other than the dealer.Good luck. Don't take these numbers as gospel, but this shows what you need to know and how to use it when buying a car. Be sure you know the total amount of the loan, as it has to add up with the purchase price, taxes, trade-in, rebates and down payment. If you can't confirm to yourself how the loan value was arrived at, stop the transaction until you do.

jake75 · Post by **jake75** » Wed Aug 20, 2003 11:03 am

And once the 03's are cleared out, the '04's will probably have a $2,000 rebate or 60 month 0% financing. IMO the Vibe is not worth $19,000 in today's market. I am happy to have mine bought 1/03 at $13,631 plus tax after discounts and rebates.

fuel4soul · Post by **fuel4soul** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 11:23 am

That dealer just got a Neptune Monotone with M&T, XM radio, but no power package, so no electric locks or windows If it does not have the power package does that mean It doesn't have the remote? (I know you can have one easily put on, but I'd rather by it stock with one.) The Frosty mono I want real bad is there. The new blue one is $19540 though.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 11:29 am

yes, no remote. but, you can have them install that at the dealership. mh first car, 98 grand am was like that. i paid extra $400 for keyless remote at the dealer. it goes in the dealer add ons so you can still finance it in your final sales price. i'd see if they can add the "power package" aftermarket.

fuel4soul · Post by **fuel4soul** » Thu Aug 21, 2003 11:39 am

I can't imagine life without the remote! But really, I have to have it. I still like the white better, Easier to keep clean, doesn't show dents/scratches as well either. Here in Oklahoma, my DARK green Sunfire sits in the parking lot while Im at work and gets so hot I can hardly breathe when I get in it.