Sooo I'm really starting to plan the tranmission upgrades. I put some Lucas Oil Transmission Fix in, and installed a Tranny Cooler and that has seemed to help but I don't foresee my tranny lasting past this summer. RPMS are hanging, it's not that responsive........Here are some options:Option 1:MWR Torque Converter $500IPT Valve Body $575 (+ shipping.......ugh)Installation $575Option 2:Pay a transmission shop to upgrade the torque converter, valve body, and replace or tweak any other worn parts.$2000-2300Option 3:MWR Torque Converter $500Valve Body, installation, & other parts done by tranny shop ~$1500Both options would put the beast out of order for about 3-4 days, so you can add the costs of a rental car.Thoughts?
You forgot to figure in the shipping cost for these heavy parts ($$) if you go with MWR or ITP. The tranny shop will pick up the shipping if you do the upgrades through them. And it'll take longer than 3-4 days for a good shop to do this. I think either way, your looking at spending at least $2500. My tranny guy and I both researched this for a month looking at all kinds of set ups. Even tried swapping in a auto 2zz tranny (feasable, but the parts +ecu just weren't available).
18" Enkei's & Kumho Ecsta's-------UNICHIP Eibach Sport springs----------Morroso oil pan Injen CAI & Oil cap----------Stage 2 FI cams Custom Exhaust-----------TRD Supercharger AEM alt. pulley -------JSP Carbon Fiber hood 380cc injectors----DC Sports ceramic header
man, crazy... IPT VB cost me $650 and $100 shipping each way Fed Ex overnight express from Anchorage, AK to New Jersey and back. Not sure on cost to install though, since we had our tech buddy do it so didn't cost as much as a shop.
Quote, originally posted by Lancer » Even tried swapping in a auto 2zz tranny (feasable, but the parts +ecu just weren't available).ahahaha,I thought about doing that.If your going to spend the money,do it all,you only want to do this onceIt all depends what they find when they open it up,that will dictate what it will cost.
June '07 VOTM Sept '07 MOTM HCVO /HCMO The Red Devil
I would have all the soft parts (clutch discs and band) replaced. It should be very little overhead to do this if the tranny is already being taken out. I guess it should cost about $100 for a rebuild kit including all soft parts and gaskets/seals. Check Transtec for rebuild kits.
Thanks for the responses, guys.What are the models of our trannys again? I thought I saw that there were 3 different automatics associated with our cars - Base, AWD, and GT Automatic (although they were only found in the Auto Matrix XRS).
also, if you're talking $2300 or more, why not just have the tranny rebuilt to a full race tranny? I know to rebuild mine would have been about $5000 vs a new one for $8000. why pay more for a lesser tranny when I can get a fully built tranny that's capable up to 450 whp?for a little more, may as well get a fully built race tranny that will include a TC and VB upgrade.
For a race tranny you're looking at about $3200 without shipping, and probably $500 to have it put in. I'm not putting out 400 horsepower. I have to meet in the middle somehow.
well, that's what I mean, if you're spending $2300 just to limp your tranny along, you may as well spend a little more and get one that you know will last. Otherwise, imo, modifying your VB will really help and on the auto trans, it makes a big difference. I went thru this last year with the LGT. Though the VB itself will not make your tranny bulletproof, I truly believe and am living proof that it will help prolong its life if you are not able or wanting to spend the big $$$ to replace the tranny itself. Also, when I did my VB thru IPT, they told me if my tranny did end up blowing up and I needed to have it built, they would take off the $$ that I paid for the VB mod since they already had it done. Just a thought.and if you have Monkeywrench racing or likewise there nearby and you can make arrangements for them to get it done in one day, go that route. I know IPT will make arrangements to do that for customers if you call in advance and set it up.
I'd like to get the MWR Converter and the IPT Valve Body, then have this shop install those and jack the bands and stuff like that. I HATE that I'd have to send my valve-body in, though. I don't need my car out of commission for 2 weeks, and I live alone away from family so that's not an option.
So you have to send in your valve body and they do something to upgrade it? If so do you know what they do. I've taken valve bodies apart and I also have an ATRA book on valve body mods but I must admit I've nver tried anything.Also how do they upgrade a regular tranny to a "race" tranny - do they actually manufacture and install new hard parts like the planetary system. diff and so on.
I'm not sure what they do to the valve body. They replace some parts like the springs which is supposed to allow the fluid to flow better and provide firmer positive shifts. The converter will just give you quicker starts and I'm sure they improve the clutches within them.It's not a full race tranny as in a drag tranny or something. They upgrade the converter and valve body, then replace any other inadequate seals, bands, etc.
Just e-mailed MWR. It'd take me 7 hours to drive there, even less if I take the ferry. Plus, I want to visit a lot of breweries in that area. When I e-mailed them before they didn't think there was a Valve Body upgrade, so I'll see what they have to say. I'd love to have some work done by them.
Quote, originally posted by Petrucci914 »I'd like to get the MWR Converter and the IPT Valve Body, then have this shop install those and jack the bands and stuff like that. I HATE that I'd have to send my valve-body in, though. I don't need my car out of commission for 2 weeks, and I live alone away from family so that's not an option.If it weren't for the fact I could only work on my car on Saturdays, I'd have only been down 4 days total by shipping my VB in from ALASKA to NEW JERSEY. look on the map.... I'm much further away.... I'm sure you could get yours done in equal time. I rented a car for a week while I waited for everything to arrive and time to reinstall. They do a lot more to the VB than add a spring or what not. I can tell you from personal experience it was worth every penny. In fact, I've even SOLD my VB to another LGT member and am awaiting his stocker to put the car back together (amongst the rest of the engine).
Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »If it weren't for the fact I could only work on my car on Saturdays, I'd have only been down 4 days total by shipping my VB in from ALASKA to NEW JERSEY. look on the map.... I'm much further away.... I'm sure you could get yours done in equal time. I rented a car for a week while I waited for everything to arrive and time to reinstall. They do a lot more to the VB than add a spring or what not. I can tell you from personal experience it was worth every penny. In fact, I've even SOLD my VB to another LGT member and am awaiting his stocker to put the car back together (amongst the rest of the engine).Understandable, but I will not be dropping my tranny or doing anything like that on a personal basis. Too much time and too many risks. That being said, it would be in the shop for about 4 days, and that's not including the shipping and receiving of the valve body.I'll give IPT a call sometime next week. If they Wine and Dine me, maybe I'll be convinced.
Quote, originally posted by Petrucci914 »Understandable, but I will not be dropping my tranny or doing anything like that on a personal basis. Too much time and too many risks. That being said, it would be in the shop for about 4 days, and that's not including the shipping and receiving of the valve body.I'll give IPT a call sometime next week. If they Wine and Dine me, maybe I'll be convinced.That is why I have a trained SOA service tech who works on my car. However, not everyone is lucky enough to be married to the dealer service dept with techs who are trained or understand modding of vehicles. That is why we could only work on the car on Saturday, because weekdays are too busy to have the car in the shop during work hours.
Quote, originally posted by Petrucci914 »I'm not sure what they do to the valve body. They replace some parts like the springs which is supposed to allow the fluid to flow better and provide firmer positive shifts. The converter will just give you quicker starts and I'm sure they improve the clutches within them.It's not a full race tranny as in a drag tranny or something. They upgrade the converter and valve body, then replace any other inadequate seals, bands, etc.OK I get a better picture of what they are probably doing. They would probably replace the springs on the shift valves so when the solenoids vent and the valve closes it will close quickly giving you a firmer shift. On Toyota (Aisin) trannies there is a way to adjust the line pressure/boost pressure so you can set it slightly higher to gve you firmer shifts. Of course if you want to get really advanced and have a millng machine you can try and play around with any of the checkball/orifice paths to modify the characteristics (they work like diodes - ie one way valves).I guess the torque converter would have a different stall speed to the original. That will give you a better launch but until TCC lockup, will slip worse than the regular TC so heating may be an issue - also slighly worse gas milage. Of course you can fix the heating issue with an external oil cooler.
Sooo......give me your address so I can ship you my tranny Here's the response I just got back from MWR:We could do the valve body / shift kit install in a few hours. Probably $150 plus fluid. The Torque converter would take most of 2 days and run $375 install. We do stock a high stall converter but would have to order the valve body / shift kit in advance. Thanks, Matt @ Monkeywrench
The price seems quite reasonable for the job. To replace the valve body all they have to do is drop the oil pan and take the VB out. To replace the TC they have to remove the tranny and slide the TC off the oil pump splined shaft.On this basis though replacing the internal clutch discs, band and gaskets/seals may cost quite a bit more as that would require full teardown of the tranny. It is worth finding out the price.Here is a pic of me rebuilding a VB Couple more pics of the tranny rebuild
Yes, that's correct. When you drop the pan the metal thing you see above is the VB. I've not worked on the A246E - those pics are from an Aisin A131/MX17 but it is very similar. You just have to take out some bolts and the VB comes out.
Quote, originally posted by blue_can »Yes, that's correct. When you drop the pan the metal thing you see above is the VB. I've not worked on the A246E - those pics are from an Aisin A131/MX17 but it is very similar. You just have to take out some bolts and the VB comes out.Whoa, baby. I need to get me a manual. Me and the pops can take that out no problem and I can send it in. After that I can take it in to get the valve body replaced. Excellent!!!
blue_can's response to my question about Solenoids via email:Yes, that's correct - unless they wanted the VBwithout the solenoids which I doubt.Yes, usually the solenoids are inside the VB althoughI thought I saw a GM design a while back with oneinside the oil pump - but that's unusual. There is noneed to fix the solenoids - they usually work or theydon't. However, they should clean them with VB cleaner- that's what I've done in the past.The solenoids are really the interface between theelectrical world (ECM/TCM) and themechanical/hydraulic world. The solenoids are themeans by which the TCM can send command to thetransmission. Solenoids are just a fancy word for anelectromagnet. When an electrical signal is sent tothe solenoids a plunger in the center opens thesolenoids and by either just on/off (like the shift orthe TCC solenoids) or can be partially opened (likethe pressure control solenoid). For that you can use avarying current but normally they use pulses ofvarying width (PWM) and the solenoid/mechanicalassembly works as a low pass filter to turn iteffectively into a dc signal.The solenoid is fixed inside the VB so that it formspart of the hydraulic passage and when it opens orcloses it allows the hydraulic fluid to actuate thevalves (which have a spring at the other end). Forshift vales this spring and the hydraulic pressurecombination set whether the shifts are firm or soft.That's it very briefly - there is somewhat more toit of course. I will post up some pics of valves andsprings on that genvibe thread when I have a moment.
alright, uploaded some pics:Taking out the VB and solenoid: look at all that tranny fluid!case is open, now you can see all the plugs and filter.Then you have to take it all outand of course the actual solenoids and valves:
oh lordy...All those wires give me the heebie-jeebies.Well, it's decided. Going to send my VB in to IPT. I'll see how the tranny performs after that. I figure if I replace piece by piece it'll be cheaper and I may not to go as fullblown as intended. I just need to figure out the logistics. I need to get my car to my parents' (2.5hr drive) but then I need to drive back with a rental car, or set it up so I ride back with a friend that was going to visit me anyways. Not sure if it's worth it to do overnight shipping. Eh!
I have AMSOIL Universal ATF in my transmission right now. I'm planning on just switching back to Toyota T-IV with Lubegard additive. Can I just do a drain and fill, or should I do a flush? And if I do a flush prior to taking my valve body out.......any secret on catching all that oil and storing it until she goes back together?
Just curious,how's using that universal fluid fare in our trannys.Is it any better or worse.When I did mine,I didn't keep my fluid from the 1st or second time I opened mine up.I just used new stuff,to save from contamination.
June '07 VOTM Sept '07 MOTM HCVO /HCMO The Red Devil
The AMSOIL has faired just fine.To prevent contamination you'd have to do a flush because that's the only way to clear the fluid out of the torque converter. Which is why I have this dilemma. I could get it flush, drop the pan and re-collect it, then pull out the valve body and send it in.........etc.
Quote, originally posted by Petrucci914 »I have AMSOIL Universal ATF in my transmission right now. I'm planning on just switching back to Toyota T-IV with Lubegard additive. Can I just do a drain and fill, or should I do a flush? And if I do a flush prior to taking my valve body out.......any secret on catching all that oil and storing it until she goes back together?I don't think a flush is essential unless the 2 fluids cannot be mixed or the fluid is old. It probbaly makes sense to do it once you have it all back together otherwise it will be more work for you - but either way should be ok.As for the Lubegard - I have used it in the past and it does help free sticking valves. Not essential but it seems to be one of the few additives that works so adding it would probably be a good thing.
Quote, originally posted by Petrucci914 »oh lordy...All those wires give me the heebie-jeebies.Well, it's decided. Going to send my VB in to IPT. I'll see how the tranny performs after that. I figure if I replace piece by piece it'll be cheaper and I may not to go as fullblown as intended. I just need to figure out the logistics. I need to get my car to my parents' (2.5hr drive) but then I need to drive back with a rental car, or set it up so I ride back with a friend that was going to visit me anyways. Not sure if it's worth it to do overnight shipping. Eh!No big deal - just disconnect the plugs and you will be fine.
As promised I got around to posting a few more pics of the inside of a VB to get an idea what's going on inside.Most VBs separate into an upper and lower body - they are separated by the separator plate and gasket. The pic below shows the upper VB from the trans pics I posted earlier. I've marked a few things on there The next pic is a close up of the 1-2 shift valve. I've tried to draw a little bit of what you cannot see. The mainline pressure comes in from the left. When the solenoid is closed , this pressure overcomes the spring pressure on the right and pushes the vale to the right. When the solenoid opens the spring pushes the valve to the left. Those large discs move inside the valve bore and open and close the different hydraulic passges which are used the apply the relevant clutches and bands. You can use simple physics (pressure/force/area relatioship) to calculate the spring pressure to make this work. By making the spring stiffer you can create firmer shifts.One annying thing about Toyota is that they seem to refuse to publish a proper hydraulic diagram. I happen to be a member of a transmission rebuilders organization and non of the guys there have ever come across the hydraulic diagram for the Aisin trannys. If any of you ever find one for the A246E pleas let me know. I happen to have both the Toyota and GM rebuild manuals for the A246E and it's not there.Hope this helps understand what mods they may be doing to your VB.
They're saying over on MO.com that the MWR torque converter, http://monkeywrenchracing.com/....html , is built to hold up to 700hp. Like mine and then some. It's only $500!Sounds tasty!
18" Enkei's & Kumho Ecsta's-------UNICHIP Eibach Sport springs----------Morroso oil pan Injen CAI & Oil cap----------Stage 2 FI cams Custom Exhaust-----------TRD Supercharger AEM alt. pulley -------JSP Carbon Fiber hood 380cc injectors----DC Sports ceramic header