Sand blasting effect on cladding....

vibe_driver · Post by **vibe_driver** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 7:31 am

If you dont have mud flaps on your vibe you might be experencing a sand blasting effect on the cladding by the rear doors. Does anyone think GM should be responsable for this on warrenty or is it just common wear and tear?

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MrMke · Post by **MrMke** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 8:00 am

I have the exact same thing on mine. It looks like it was sandblasted.Imagine how it would look if we had the monotone package.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 11:38 am

I don't see any way they would ever cover this under warranty. It is just wear and tear on the car like you said. I have the monotone, but I got the factory mudguards the day I bought the car and installed them shortly afterward. The mudguards work on the non-monotone cars as well. They should match the grey plastic cladding almost perfectly. Might be worth the investment.

vibe_driver · Post by **vibe_driver** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 12:45 pm

I dont know if something like that would be considered "normal wear and tear" to all people. So yeah sure go out and spend the 50 bucks or so on something the car should of had on it from the factory.... I dont mean to sound rude... But I dont think it is normal for the tires to pick up dirt, sand, ect and do that to the car.. I do know that tires pick up everything but come on.....

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:22 pm

I'm wondering how will looks mud flap on my salsa mono?Anyways, could be a good idea to get a set.

Post by **NSimkins** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 9:37 pm

quote:I'm wondering how will looks mud flap on my salsa mono?Anyways, could be a good idea to get a set. I have the mudflaps on my Frosty Mono and even though the mudflaps match nothing else on the vehicle, I would say they look pretty decent. From a distance, they almost blend in with the tire/wheel well areas.They have been a paint-saver! Althought I can't compare because I have put mudflaps on all my previous vehicles.

DopeVibeGT · Post by **DopeVibeGT** » Thu Apr 10, 2003 9:13 pm

This must be a non-mono problem. I have none of this on my Vibe.

zombie · Post by **zombie** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 1:28 am

having the same problem,gm says normal wear and tear(still trying to get them replaced)approx.$300.00 per side.stopped at body shop today nothing can be placed over thes areas,he said the 3m tape may work,or if you can live with it he said purchase a dressing to somewhat hide the damage.(maybe if enough of us complain they'll do something,ha, ha)

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 8:12 am

quote:If you dont have mud flaps on your vibe you might be experencing a sand blasting effect on the cladding by the rear doors. Does anyone think GM should be responsable for this on warrenty or is it just common wear and tear?YIKES! That looks pretty bad!I put a set of splash guards on my Vibe when it had 1600 miles on it. I had some very, very light spots on both sides prior to installing them. At the time, I thought perhaps I ran over something such as paint and it splashed on the cladding. But, upon closer inspection, sure enough tiny chunks of plastic are gone. Now as I am approaching 6,000 miles, have a look. Not as bad as your car, vibe_driver. But it continues to get worse. I wouldn't have thought anything about it if it hadn't been mentioned here. Looks similar on both sides, the cladding in front of the wheel and on the rear door where it curves down are getting really beat up. Let me know if you want to see more pics, I have a few others...And no, I don't drive down gravel roads. With the exception of a gravel driveway or two, but I take it verrrry slow. Tiny objects would have to hit with a lot of force to do this kind of damage.Yes, I would like to have it repaired, but... The way I see it, not much sense on replacing the parts if they're going to get eaten up again, unless something is changed with the design of the cladding.

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vibe_driver · Post by **vibe_driver** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 10:21 am

quote:Yes, I would like to have it repaired, but... The way I see it, not much sense on replacing the parts if they're going to get eaten up again, unless something is changed with the design of the cladding. I concur with your thoughts. But still my question is, Is this normal for a car to tear itself up just by driving down the road. In my opinion no, I do beleave it is a design flaw. It still leaves the question unanswered. To whom is responsable for the problem we find ourself at.... Is it Gm or our selves by not buying the mud gaurds that Gm is so happy to sell us all.....

Post by **NSimkins** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 8:05 am

Attached is a pic of the plastic tape on my monotone cladding. I just waxed my Vibe this weekend after the winter and did notice some minor "sandblasting" on this taped area, what the two-tone lacks. This would have been a nice feature to see on the two-tones given the photo and experiences in this post.This particular picture (taken on the driver's side rear door) has the tape that is more yellow (see my previous post above) than the passenger side, so I took this pic for visual purposes.

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vibe_driver · Post by **vibe_driver** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 11:14 am

With the "mono-tone" vibes having this clear tape on the lower cladding tells me that this is a known problem with the vibe. GM does not spend any money if they dont have to on the manufacturing of their products. Hmmm makes me think that knowing this would benefit me in getting my vibe repaired...

Rouse · Post by **Rouse** » Sun Apr 13, 2003 11:47 pm

quote:With the "mono-tone" vibes having this clear tape on the lower cladding tells me that this is a known problem with the vibe. I too have the same clear tape on the lower cladding. And when I went into the dealership to repair some scratches that the wife installed over the weekend, the salesman and I were walking over to the car and before he saw my car he thought I was talking about the sand blasting effect. He says he has had quite a few people complain about this but because I didn't have that problem I never asked him what they did about it. He also said "wow yours has a clear film on it, I wonder why they only put that on your car. Probably because it is painted". Another case of GM dealership wow is this a vibe phenomenon!!!

zombie · Post by **zombie** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:02 am

the body shop manager at pace pontiac said right now gm is saying ita normal wear on thr gray cladding,but he said that if enough people go to their dealers and complain they may step up and do something,due to the clear protective tape on the monotones gm figured this would be a problem area

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 8:49 am

I figure I'll "casually" mention it to the service advisor when I go in Saturday for a oil change. This issue sounds an awful lot like the TSB that nsimkins posted over on the Monotone Paint Poll thread... Not sure if it applies to us two-tone owners, monotone owners, or both... If that's the case, the TSB advises to replace the cladding. Hmm...

VibeSalsa · Post by **VibeSalsa** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 11:22 am

I have almost the same effect on my Vibe although I have the mudflaps since the first day of driving. I took delivery of my Vibe on November 22, 2002 and it was winter at this time. I know that this season is not very good for cars but I'm a little bit disappointed about that. I washed my car last Wednesday and I found this area very rough... like sand blasted... like many of us...But, I think the layout of the body create this effect and I will consider this Â«normal wear and tearÂ». I don't hope GM will do something about that under warranty...

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Mon Apr 14, 2003 6:19 pm

GM will just say that if you don't ever want a scratch, nick, chip, or ding in your car's finish, take it home, park it in a vault and never drive it. That is the only guarantee agaist damage to the body surfaces. It is unfortunate that this is occurring, but I've had many scratches and dings from the tires picking up things on the road and flinging them against the body of the car. GM bears no legal responsibility for your tires picking things up and flinging them against the body of the car. They will just say to buy the mudflaps. Hmm... let's see here, spend $45 for mudflaps or $600 to replace the lower cladding on both sides once per year. I know which one I'd choose.As for the tape on the monotone Vibes --- many cars today with painted lower panels have this tape on the bottom of the car. My stepdad's 2002 Monte Carlo SS has it on his. My sister's '03 Corolla S has this stuff sprayed on the lower part of the doors that looks like rubberized undercoating that was painted over. You can't really see it unless you look from pretty close up. Almost looks like bodywork that wasn't sanded and just painted over. I have seen this on cars before as well, usually on smaller trucks. Putting a tape type of protectant will probably not work because the finish is rough. It would either look rather strange or just not stick. I installed the mudflaps on my monotone Vibe and have no marks on the lower body from objects being flung against it by the tires. I feel that they are a good investment compared to the cost and inconvenience of having the lower body repainted regularly. The rear tires on my Mustang used to fling stuff against the lower part of the rear bumper on the sides and nicked that all up too. I just should have installed some mudflaps back there if I was so worried about it, but most of them rubbed out.

Toasted7 · Post by **Toasted7** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 12:44 pm

I just cleaned the cladding on my Vibe and put on a coat of Mother's Back to Black in order to try to get rid of the sand blasting effect. I don't know if it made it better or worse. Now the trim is darker (looks almost new) and the rough part of it sticks out even more. I have a gravel driveway and go very slow to a fro, but the cladding is getting tore up pretty bad anyway. I didn't know if anyone had checked into this further since the last post or not, I think I'm going to mention it to my dealer and see what they say. BTW, how much does a dealer charge for an oil change?

red · Post by **red** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 1:25 pm

the proper way to fix the sand blast damage is to remove all the cladding, sand it to smooth out all rough surfaces, paint, clear- then apply a clear called road guard over the paint/clear. if i would have known that my panels were going to affected this way, i would have put plastic vinyl on the bottom of the panels....also someone has stated in these forums that the new 2004 have extended sides to offer more protection, i guess you could replace the damaged panels with these...i think i'll have my husband sand and paint my lowers some outrageous color, then road guard them, just to be different!!

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Mon Jun 02, 2003 2:01 pm

There's no way to prove that the wear you're experiencing is a result of defective side panels.It could be any number of things: the materials roads you drive on are made out of, the speeds you drive at, the weather in your particular region. Since this is not typical of a defective part (for example, it falls off the car, or gets discolored), there is no requirement for GM to replace it.I personally, have not had a significant problem with the "sandblast" effect. Do I have scratches? Sure! But they're not overwhelmingly noticeable. I have but one spot of discoloration, which I think is from using "Tire Wet" and driving before it dried, and because it's silicone based, it can discolor, which is what I think happened. Again, not GM's fault.I empathize with your concerns, I do wish the cladding was more durable, but realisitically, I wouldn't expect GM to replace it because it's not holding up...It's the same thing with the chipping or scratching paint finish. Do I think it's defective? Sure! But we really can't prove that the chips in my paint aren't from normal wear and tear...Unfortunately, it's the nature of the business.

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 5:57 am

i was reading about dare i say it... svt focus in scc it got like 4 coats of paint and two clearcoats i swear our cars barely have one, this WOULD be gm's problem. i had cars ten years old paint was better than the vibes. if id known the paint was this crappy i might have tried to do something about it before driving off the lot.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:42 am

A guy I work with just got a Focus.He's had it for abotu 3-4 weeks now at least. Paint is still as shiny and scratch-free as the day he got it. Mine looked not so great 4 weeks after I got it, and now, well, now she looks horrid. I would really like to see GM step up to the plate on this one and do something to fix the upcoming model years...this paint problem is by far not new, they've admitted it's a problem, now they should fix it.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 9:59 am

What did it cost just for rocker panel refinishing, if you don't mind me asking?

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Tue Jun 03, 2003 1:46 pm

quote:I empathize with your concerns, I do wish the cladding was more durable, but realisitically, I wouldn't expect GM to replace it because it's not holding up...I had the service manager at my dealership take a look at mine... He really took the time out to listen and look the car over. It wasn't instantly dismissed as 'normal.' He did see it and didn't necessarily think it was supposed to happen, but we both agreed there wasn't much he could do to help. His conclusion was similar to mine. Seeing how the body angles outward in front of the rear wheels, it is a straight shot back for debris slung by the front tires to hit the cladding. The cladding could be replaced, but it would just get beaten up again. Nothing would really fix it until they came up with a more durable material, which I really don't see happening any time soon.The service manager gave me Pontiac's number and asked for me to give them a call. If enough people complained, perhaps that would light a fire under 'em. But I'm not holding my breath on that one, it takes a lot to make a big company change the way they are doing things.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:34 am

quote:I have to get it done yet. Dealer is charging me $150.00 per side.That doesn't seem unreasonable...I wonder what it would cost to repaint my car AND get new cladding all around...Then I would put 12 coats of wax on it (no lie) and pray to god it protects it...Guessing the cost would be more than I could possibly imagine...

msmyer · Post by **msmyer** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 3:11 am

quote:Mudguards are going to be the way to go after or if you choose to get it fixed. For $45.00 bucks, they could be yours. I looked at mine and I too, have that effect on my cladding also! I might go and order some mud flaps! Anyone know how hard they are to put on? I've never even seen any on anyother vibes i've seen in my area!

red · Post by **red** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:07 am

my husband (ase master auto body tech) told me he hasnt seen paint/primer so thin as on my vibe.....basically if they would have added another coat of clear onto the hood and side mouldings, he seemed to think we wouldnt be having such an heated discussion about these items, especially the hood and chips....i have mud flaps from pontiac (not contoured)....i still am getting tore up since they dont sit out far enough to protect, though not as bad......we have vehicles that greg has painted 10 -12 years ago and they are NOT as chipped up as my 5 month old vib....neither one of us wants to repaint this car (him mostly) 'cause it is a b***h w/o access to a paint booth....i can understand my rubber nose getting chipped up (to some extent) but they really underpainted this whole car.....whats the ph# to pontiac customer assistance?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:25 am

quote:whats the ph# to pontiac customer assistance? Pontiac Customer Assistance Center:Inside the U.S.: 1-800-762-2737Inside Canada: 1-800-263-3777Maybe I'll call them too...maybe I can get something out of it...Hey, can your husband give me a ballpark figure what it would cost to replace all the cladding, and repaint the car? Also, if I did decide to do it, can you ask him what I can have done (i.e. extra wax coats) to make sure this didn't happen again?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:27 am

Have what done?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:31 am

Unfortunately, in my case, too much damage is done, and I would have to have it repainted before I bothered adding protection...

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:34 am

You mean that plastic spear about midway up?

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 4:51 am

Shouldn't be too much for that...

red · Post by **red** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 5:25 am

to repaint a car and DO IT RIGHT..is very $$$$...he estimates approx. 3000 - $4000( alaska prices, see disclaimer below)....most expensive items are primer and paint/clear..shouldnt have to strip since the cars are fairly new (that saves BIG bucks!)..he says start fixing the moldings/cladding 1st, its the cheapest area to start rather than repaint the car and if that gets taken care of you will feel a whole lot better about your car..sand out imperfections, then paint (at least 2 coats), clear (at least 1, preferably 2)-if desired, add road guard for the 2nd coat of clear) !! reminder !! road guard isnt for everyones taste...all the vehicles that he has applied it to, the road guard looks slightly bumpy...he makes it that way so that rocks/debris dont strike the paint/clear "head on" and dirt/mud wont stick to the area....he said to check w/your local body shop concerning pricing since material costs are very high up here due to the extreme distances on shipping...if the chips/gouges are deep in the cladding, plastic fill may have to be applied (yes there is a "bondo" type filler for plastic) to create a smooth appearance...for the hood-sand ( rough up with 3m red pad, this doesnt take paint to primer but gives something rough for the paint to stick to) put on at least 2 coats of clear, wet sand...!!note !! use high quality paint and materials in the repair: ppg (our fav), dupont --3m for materials----make sure the repair shop is ASE qualified (it means that the techs have taken time and effort to be tested and certified to be within the top 10% of body techs nationwide) or at least I-Car qualified (gold preferred)...i'm going to harass gm first and see what they say before i start painting/sanding my summer away if mama aint happy--nobodys happy!

red · Post by **red** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 6:04 am

just got off the phone with pontiac and they totally blew me off---said it was a design of the car and they cant do anything about it and that since the monotone color was an "option" and evidently that was included in that "option" and there is nothing they can do about it.... i want to know if that protective vinyl cover is listed to be included in that package...i dont remeber reading about it----- PONTIAC REP TOLD ME THAT NO ONE HAS COMPLAINED ABOUT THE ABNORMAL CHIPPING/SANDBLAST EFFECT ON THE VIBE---SO THEY CANT PUT OUT A TSB ON IT---SAID I WAS THE ONLY ONE IF YOU ARE EXPERIENCING SANDBLASTING ISSUES---CALL THE GM CUSTOMER SERVICE REPS AND ***** OR NOTHING WILL GET DONE !!!

Rico Rose · Post by **Rico Rose** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 11:07 am

Post the name of the Pontiac representative, then we can all call him/her and ask for him/her by name...

Cubanpete · Post by **Cubanpete** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 2:15 pm

My Mustang had excellent "Gravel Guard" all aroound had it for 10 years, I never had any sandblasting problem, I also find my current cars finish way more fragile then my Fords finish was....

Big_Red · Post by **Big_Red** » Wed Jun 04, 2003 8:48 pm

I didn't bother getting the flaps because it is a two-tone Vibe. When I had the Saturn SL1 (back in the day), I didn't have flaps and I never had any damage on the cladding. I think, it depends on where you drive, however, knowing GM - this will not be covered under their "warranty"

ZedTim · Post by **ZedTim** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 1:16 am

wait a minute here I think you voided your warranty by thinking about flaps! lol

red · Post by **red** » Thu Jun 05, 2003 2:20 am

thanks rico rose: her name is kenisha (didnt get the last name)....i went to my local dealer after i talked to her...they are sympathetic (thats better than not listening !) seems that gm is having similar issues on their trailblazers and envoys.....$35,000 rigs with all their paint removed off the sides and back fenders...they asked what i wanted to have them do....i told them they could repair it but is that going to solve the problem, they said no (least they are honest about it)...seems that the solution to the problem is the same one that the dealers had to come up with to satisfy their envoy/trailblazer customers...$400.00 running boards !!!! boy..wouldnt that look good!! gm was reluctant to fix any of the suv problems from what i understand....the service manager said that i didnt help the matter when i told the pontiac rep that i thought it was a design defect and that i inquired as to why they had done mods to the cladding on the 04's and what pontiac was going to do to help the 2tone 03's owners...he said gm doesnt like to be told that they have design issues !!! i thought they were running ads saying that they admitted to errors in quality and such !!! anyway there is still hope for a solution, i just dont know if pontiac will help or not and how much will come out of my own pocket !! ALSO...to clear coat the cladding WONT help much because it too will disappear and the process repeated all over again, so my previous info was in error...i apologize....the clear vinyl protective sheet that is installed on the monotones are a good idea but will evidentually fade away with time and abrasion....i guess people arent complaining to their dealers/pontiac about this 'cause they figure that as long as the paint isnt being blasted off, all is well, and the cladding is doing what its suppose to do on a 'awd' vehicle...i think if i can get pontiac to converse with the local dealer, we can get this worked out...if not, well....its a great car but i might have to temper my recommendations to others about it.......i wonder how the matrix(s) are doing ? are they having any issues with this ? or is it just a pontiac design issue ?

pmh013 · Post by **pmh013** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 10:35 am

I spent a couple of hours hand washing my car last weekend and noticed mine is starting to look a little chewed up. I have Pontiac flaps, installed at the dealership. I drive on gravel very little.I got the 2-tone expecting it would "hold up" better (not as noticable when you get paint chips). I don't think mine is so bad that I'd call & complain. I'll try to get some pic's of mine later.

jlynam · Post by **jlynam** » Fri Jun 06, 2003 6:40 pm

You have all convinced me...I only have 3K miles on mine and I am getting some mudflaps POST HASTE. It seems that $45 of prevention is worth $600 or more of cure.

red · Post by **red** » Thu Jun 12, 2003 3:10 am

may be working out possible fix for vib on damaging effects of rock on rear moldings/cladding...will inform on friday....am shooting for replacing all effected molding/cladding and the possibility of adding side ground effects from the sport package to prevent any more damage.....hopefully pontiac, the dealer and i can reach an agreeable solution...talked to a different rep on tuesday morning and she was very nice, listened to what i had to say, re-opened my case, gave me a case #, her ph # and most importantly, listened with unbiased ears and mind to what i had to say and feel about everything: the car, the service, my feelings about pontiac and gm and my wish to solve this issue with all three entities involved to reach a permanent solution....boy, that was so refreshing.....i think i must have called at the wrong time, got the wrong person and approached it the wrong way on last thursday (my fault...you know about redheads and their temper...."hell hath no fury like a redhead pissed !!!!") anyway she is trying, my dealer is trying and i think something will happen maybe not everything but something good will come of this

TimLambo · Post by **TimLambo** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:12 am

I am going to call the customer service line and gripe. Mine has 7K miles on with no gravel and the pitting is very noticeable. A friend with 9K and paint has none. Same tires. I also bought two-tone thinking more durability. Big mistake. The gray cladding is just a money saving gimmick for GM. Our 97 Montana has painted cladding and no problems at 65K. I can scratch the cladding with my fingernail. There are formulas GM could've used to improve durability. I don't consider this normal wear and tear at all. At 70K this'll look like hell. If enough of us complain GM will do something.

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 1:32 am

6700 miles and no problems with my 2-tone cladding. Not even a hint of pitting or the "sand-blast" effect.

disneydj · Post by **disneydj** » Wed Jun 25, 2003 3:08 am

No problems with mine and I've got 17,000+ miles. Maybe all of you should move to Florida. Don't have to worry about salt or rust or any of that junk. Just making sure your paint and dash don't cook. You'll never find snow on the beach... but you'll find a beach on the snow. Good luck to all.

MiamiVibe · Post by **MiamiVibe** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:15 am

i agree that the paint really SUCKS we should all try to see if everyone can put in calls or something to get our paint jobs fixed. By the way the cladding on my car is fine, must be true what disneydj says that the Florida weather helps.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 5:44 am

quote:i agree that the paint really SUCKS we should all try to see if everyone can put in calls or something to get our paint jobs fixed. HA! Good luck dude!

mrgrn · Post by **mrgrn** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:12 am

i have a two tone with 8k on it. I got it this winter and within a month i had sand/salt blasted the gray pieces to a shambles. the paint is scratched to shat all over. i have a lease and have had the car since november. when i went for a oil change the guy there said i i turned it in today they would charge me thousands to repair it, (removed)? what is this car going to look like in three years time, it looks as though i have had the car for years. I think this is a major problem. i can scratch the paint down to primer with my fingernail, that is normal? I have taken pics of the car and am going to default on the lease and seek council if they will not stand behind a car that is only 7 months old. Why should i have to pay for all of this shat because the paint is wafer thin and there is a design flaw in the car??????Sorry just venting

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:21 am

Wouldn't even a leased car be covered under TSB's?

mrgrn · Post by **mrgrn** » Wed Jul 16, 2003 11:29 am

what is a TSB?