Oh great, I think my car just S the bed again!

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:42 pm

Well, I was on my way to work(about a 5 mile trip from home), and I never let the car warm up, but it was 58 degrees when I went out a 4:30 this morning. I take a few residential streets and then take the bridge. As I was getting on the entrance ramp to the Coronado Bridge (which is a pretty steep incline), I was at about 60mph+ with it floored(S/C fully kicked in) when I heard a weird sound and I got a feeling like it should have shifted or something but didn't. Unfortunately the compressors were on for the air bags so I couldn't hear it very well, but I let off the gas a just cruised up the bridge, but once the compressors stopped I could hear this light tac-a-tac-a-tac-a-tac sound that sped up and slowed with the rpms of the engine. I'm assuming I lost a rod or something, but I don't know why. I don't have a CEL, but I can also hear the intake suction sounds weird too. It's not a solid suction like it used to be, it seems to be more broken. I can't believe this S is happening! It's like 1 thing after another! And almost all the engine stuff is freakin GM parts! I mean sure, don't use a CAI with the S/C, but I have W/I as do 100 other people who have never had problems with theirs! I just don't understand why stuff keeps breaking on MY car. I can only imagine what this will cost to fix and I'm about to be unemployed in 2 months!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:52 pm

That sucks. Sorry I can't offer any actual help on figuring it out.Quote, originally posted by damronjr Â» I just don't understand why stuff keeps breaking on MY car. Had to double check after reading that, but was able to verify this is not another Colonel Panic thread. I don't think GM had much if anything to do with the engine, it's Toyota, or Yamaha, or somebody, but not GM. I thnk the S/C is Toyota also.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:01 pm

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»Had to double check after reading that, but was able to verify this is not another Colonel Panic thread. Haha, nope, his were all with stock parts!Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»I don't think GM had much if anything to do with the engine, it's Toyota, or Yamaha, or somebody, but not GM. I thnk the S/C is Toyota also.True, but that is basically what I meant. None of the Trix's seems to be having problems though besides greenfire. It's amazing that you can run with a turbo set-up that generates way more power and has a lot more to it and have less problems than using OEM parts!

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:13 pm

Boss says he thinks it is either a valve spring or a wiped lobe on the cam. Any suggestions here?

millster · Post by **millster** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:18 pm

That's what I was wondering. When you mentioned stuttering intake noise, I thought "valve".I'd say it's certainly possible. May also be a burnt valve.While I'm not a mechanic, I would tend not to think it's a rod problem. You mentioned it's a light tapping noise. A rod would not be described as light tapping.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:24 pm

Quote, originally posted by millster Â»That's what I was wondering. When you mentioned stuttering intake noise, I thought "valve".I'd say it's certainly possible. May also be a burnt valve.While I'm not a mechanic, I would tend not to think it's a rod problem. You mentioned it's a light tapping noise. A rod would not be described as light tapping. Yeah, it's more of a ticking or light tapping sound.

BlueCrush · Post by **BlueCrush** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:51 am

WOW! I don't know what to say. I wish I knew more about the sounds a car makes and what the problem could be by a particular sound. Dang! That sucks, Man! Keep us updated.

Mase · Post by **Mase** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:09 am

Could the engine have possibly ingested something? The tapping could also be the sc impeller itself.

millster · Post by **millster** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:10 am

Oh. Now there's something I hadn't thought of.Something wrong with the impeller would also account for an odd sound from the intake.Does the car run poorly at all?

Raven · Post by **Raven** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:17 am

Quote, originally posted by Mase Â»Could the engine have possibly ingested something? The tapping could also be the sc impeller itself.A S/C impeller spins at extremely high RPM 15,000+, so it is not likely making a tapping noise such as he described.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:31 am

Quote, originally posted by millster Â»Oh. Now there's something I hadn't thought of.Something wrong with the impeller would also account for an odd sound from the intake.Does the car run poorly at all?The car seems to run fine, just has that noise. The noise is in sync with the rpms of the engine.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:13 am

Well, I just got home from work. The car runs and drives fine with no apparent loss of power or boost. It did seem to idle funny, but that may have only been noticed b/c I was really looking for something. The sound seems to be a lot more quiet than it initially was, but still there at higher rpms. I have gotten alot of suggestions, but I think I will take it to a shop tomorrow (NOT THE DEALER!) and get diagnostics run on it and see what they say. I'm just afriad to drive it too much for fear of messing something up even worse.

millster · Post by **millster** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:27 am

Good plan, taking it in. You know, it's a silly question but have you checked the oil?Good luck with the diagnostic. Definitely let us know what they find!

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:45 am

Quote, originally posted by millster Â»Good plan, taking it in. You know, it's a silly question but have you checked the oil?Good luck with the diagnostic. Definitely let us know what they find!Oil? What would I look for besides it being low, dark/burnt, or having water in it?

millster · Post by **millster** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:48 am

Come to think of it, there could be some change in it but short of metal shavings I wouldn't know what to look for.But no, I was wondering if you had checked the level. Hence my saying it was a silly question.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 8:50 am

Quote, originally posted by millster Â»Come to think of it, there could be some change in it but short of metal shavings I wouldn't know what to look for.But no, I was wondering if you had checked the level. Hence my saying it was a silly question. Apparently not too silly, b/c I never thought of it! I listened to it and looked for obvious problems, and even when my boss came out (he works on motorcycles) he did the same thing. Guess I better go do that!

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:46 am

OK, well, I took it to a shop on base and they suggested something I never expected. The lady there told me she had a Grand Am and had this happen twice to her before she got rid of it and heard it is happening on other cars as well. She said that when you get your oil changed you should make sure you use the same OEM style oil filter. She said the aftermarket ones companies are using do not have the check valve that the OEM ones have and the oil goes down into the filter and you lose oil pressure or something to that effect. She said she lost 2 sets of lifters that way before she got rid of the car. I asked the dealership about it and they confirmed this with a similar story. I got the oil changed at the dealer and the sound is still there, but he told me to drive it a couple of days and if it is still doing it to bring it back and they will have to try to find the problem. I guess we'll see what happens.

BlueCrush · Post by **BlueCrush** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:38 am

Was the oil changed at the dealer last time?

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:51 am

Quote, originally posted by BlueCrush Â»Was the oil changed at the dealer last time?No, I go to the Valvoline place on base usually.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:10 pm

Every after market filter specd for your car has a bypass and anti-drainback valve. They won't stop oil flow and because the filter is installed open end up, you can't get a dry start. Her Grand Ams filter may have had a different position and a bad adbv could have caused a few seconds of engine spin without oil. It could also be the dealer blaming the filter on a common GM problem since a semi-dry filter shouldn't be enough to wreck the cam. Your at about 1 in a million chance of this being a filter issue. It would have had to have had some catistrophic failure. If that was the case, almost every filter company will cover repairs but they need the filter as proof.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:38 pm

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe Â»Every after market filter specd for your car has a bypass and anti-drainback valve. They won't stop oil flow and because the filter is installed open end up, you can't get a dry start. Her Grand Ams filter may have had a different position and a bad adbv could have caused a few seconds of engine spin without oil. It could also be the dealer blaming the filter on a common GM problem since a semi-dry filter shouldn't be enough to wreck the cam. Your at about 1 in a million chance of this being a filter issue. It would have had to have had some catistrophic failure. If that was the case, almost every filter company will cover repairs but they need the filter as proof.Well, I highly doubt that was the case as when they came back from the oil change they didn't have any comment on anything being wrong with the oil or anything else for that matter, but then again I don't know that they really checked it either. I really hope this doesn't have anything to do with the W/I I just recently installed, or if it is just coincidence that only 2-3 weeks after installing it that something is all of a sudden wrong with my engine. I also don't know if the problem I had before with the TRD harness adapter and the fiasco following that to get it to run again had anthing to do with it. Basically, when I got to the dealership the service manager told me they haven't had any problems with these engines at all that he knows of, so I am assuming it has to be something external that caused it. I'm never buying a new car again b/c I can't keep it stock and once you look at it the warranty is gone anyways, so short of putting everything back to stock (how long would that take!) and getting everything hopefully fixed under warranty, I'm willing to bet I'm pretty screwed at this point.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:30 pm

Yah, I hope it's nothing serious.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 10:53 pm

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe Â»Yah, I hope it's nothing serious.Oh yeah, and to top it all off, I had a freakin' flat tire on my way into work today! I never noticed it until I drove over one of those little white plastic divider bumps in the middle of the lanes and it felt like a boulder! I got to work and check the pressure and it didn't even register! I filled it to 35psi, so I guess I'll have to see what it looks like when I get back out there. I have like 4-5 nails in it but they have been there for a while and I have them in most of the tires. I didn't hear any leaks and I couldn't feel any air coming from any of the nails. Thank goodness I have road hazard on them from Discount Tire, but I'm sure they will find a reason to blame me for it and make me pay for a new tire as well!

scherry2 · Post by **scherry2** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:43 pm

maybe we should call you ColonelPanic Jr. sorry couldn't resist.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 11:59 pm

Quote, originally posted by scherry2 Â»maybe we should call you ColonelPanic Jr. sorry couldn't resist.At least his was stock!Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»I would take everything off and go back to stock.I have seriously been considering the idea, at least to get it fixed. But then I just wonder if putting it back on would cause more problems again.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:22 am

I would probably use a pice of rubber hose as a sthethoscope and see if I could pinpoint the source of the tapping, and also listen for air leaks and such. It can be hard to really locate a sound, and if you could tell if it was the SC, the valve area, the timing chain area, the block, or some other place, it would help you narrow down the source of the noise

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:22 am

Quote, originally posted by silverawd26 Â»Yeah, you probobly will as I am thinking there is a wiring problem causing your Vibe to act funny.... You could always sell the parts, take a small loss, but not a total loss on the parts.I have thought about modding my truck, but what it comes do to is that it is my daily driver...... I need it to be ready 24/7..... I always just figured I was safe b/c I was buying GM parts. Looks like I was wrong!

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:30 am

Update, the December 2005 VOTM is now deceased! I took it to the dealer yesterday and the changed the oil and told me to drive it for a couple of days and see what happens. Well, today on my way home from work the tap turned into a clunk and the end of my engines life. I had it towed to the dealer and they said they will look at it tomorrow and call me with the details. We tried to start it at the dealer and all we heard was a groan from the engine. He said it sounded like there wasn't any compression. I don't know.... All I know is I can't afford this.

Shadow-Vibe · Post by **Shadow-Vibe** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:11 am

This is not good news, and I'm very sorry to hear about it. I just hope maybe then can pin point the problem to something aftermarket that was a manufacturer defect. I will keep my fingers crossed. And if you need to sell anything let me know.

millster · Post by **millster** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:21 am

That's no good.I think we all have our fingers crossed for you! Hopefully it's not anything that can't be overcome.Still, so sad!

BlueCrush · Post by **BlueCrush** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:25 am

Jason,You have my deepest sympathy regarding your Vibe. Please keep us up to date. I feel your pain and it hurts.Take Care,Brian

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:57 am

Thanks guys. I'll let you know what they say if they figure it out tomorrow.

goodvibe · Post by **goodvibe** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 12:01 pm

Probably wishful thinking but it's possible that the precat came apart and plugged the exhaust. I don't know how that would make a clunk or tick noise but with your intake and exhaust, the exhaust would be hotter (leaner) and effect the CAT. It sounds more like a rod though.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:17 pm

Quote, originally posted by goodvibe Â»It sounds more like a rod though.That's what I'm thinking.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:34 am

Well, guess who's f-ed?!?! Just got a call from the dealer and they told me they can't warranty anything. He said he talked to his service manager who talked to the district service manager and they all said no way it could be touched under warranty. They haven't even opened it up to see what is wrong. I have a feeling the engine is seized, so I think I will try to get it home, tear down the engine stuff and put it back it stock and see if I can get it to another dealer and get it fixed under warranty then. I don't know if they put that kind of stuff in the computer or what, but hopefully not so this could work. Anybody know about that?

joholste · Post by **joholste** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 5:41 am

damn that sucks man... good luck

21Rouge · Post by **21Rouge** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:17 am

Quote, originally posted by damronjr Â»I have a feeling the engine is seized, so I think I will try to get it home, tear down the engine stuff and put it back it stock and see if I can get it to another dealer and get it fixed under warranty then. I don't know if they put that kind of stuff in the computer or what, but hopefully not so this could work. Anybody know about that?I do hope you get a second chance but I would imagine that "they put this kind of stuff in the computer" or the other dealer will likely call the home dealer for such an event. And unless you go very far afield wont it be the same district service manager?

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:21 am

Quote, originally posted by Boxgrover Â»I do hope you get a second chance but I would imagine that "they put this kind of stuff in the computer" or the other dealer will likely call the home dealer for such an event. And unless you go very far afield wont it be the same district service manager? Yeah, but if they don't report it by VIN and put in a system that other dealerships that can see when work wasn't done.....

tnpartsguy · Post by **tnpartsguy** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 6:28 am

BE CAREFUL! If the dealership has already called the local GM Service Rep, they Might have put a warranty block on your car; even though without a teardown, I don't understand how they could, but the reps are pretty much a law unto themselves, as I learned when I tried to get my car painted under warranty. I havn't checked, but it wouldn't surprise me a BIT if he didn't put a block on my paint warranty....

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:24 am

Might the "black box" tell them what went on as well, as far as what caused the engine to seize, which might tip them off that you had performance mods at the time? Just a thought...

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 8:52 am

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â»Might the "black box" tell them what went on as well, as far as what caused the engine to seize, which might tip them off that you had performance mods at the time? Just a thought...I don't know. I thought it usually just told what readings were picked up when the car died, but when I was driving it I was only going about 20mph and was barely pushing the gas, so I doubt any irregular readings would be found. Someone suggested the oil pump might have gone out causing it to die like that, but I would think the stupid guys at the dealership would have noticed something wrong when they changed the oil. They didn't give me any indications anything was wrong whcih means either nothing seemed wrong or they didn't even bother to check.

Kari · Post by **Kari** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:44 am

It could also store "peak" information as well, or readings that seem out of the ordinary. I don't know if it does or not though.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 9:47 am

Quote, originally posted by Kari Â»It could also store "peak" information as well, or readings that seem out of the ordinary. I don't know if it does or not though.Anything is worth a shot at this point. If it comes down to it I will buy a used engine and have it put in.

ColonelPanic · Post by **ColonelPanic** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:25 am

Quote, originally posted by damronjr Â»If it comes down to it I will buy a used engine and have it put in.To be honest with you, I think you may want to strongly consider that instead of pursuing any other avenues. What's done is done. You're in GM's system now, and any new dealer will probably know about what happened at this dealer. If they don't know up front, the dealer will more than likely find out eventually. They will have to call someone on a repair of this magnitude for authorization, and if that happens, they'll certainly find out.And if the repairs aren't covered and you still have to pay, you DON'T want to pay what GM charges for these parts!!!!! Trust me, Vibe parts are astronomical, do yourself a favor - seeing how the tranny was well over $4,000 from the dealer, you REALLY DON'T want to let the GM dealer work on the car. There's no telling how much they want for that engine... They'll certainly want a lot more than that thing is worth, I'll say that! Find yourself a used engine and go to another shop. I found many in your area on car-part.com for less than $1,000, and plenty of good ones for under $1500.Hate to hear about the bad luck, I certainly know what that's like to have your car let you down in a big way, that's nothing new to me! ... Sorry that you have to be invited into my little dysfunctional vibe club over here.

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 10:36 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic Â»To be honest with you, I think you may want to strongly consider that instead of pursuing any other avenues. What's done is done. You're in GM's system now, and any new dealer will probably know about what happened at this dealer. If they don't know up front, the dealer will more than likely find out eventually. They will have to call someone on a repair of this magnitude for authorization, and if that happens, they'll certainly find out.And if the repairs aren't covered and you still have to pay, you DON'T want to pay what GM charges for these parts!!!!! Trust me, Vibe parts are astronomical, do yourself a favor - seeing how the tranny was well over $4,000 from the dealer, you REALLY DON'T want to let the GM dealer work on the car. There's no telling how much they want for that engine... You probably won't walk away for less than five grand if I had to guess. Find yourself a used engine and go to another shop. I found many in your area on car-part.com for less than $1,000, and plenty of good ones for under $1500.Hate to hear about the bad luck, I certainly know what that's like to have your car let you down in a big way, that's nothing new to me! ... Sorry that you have to be invited into my little dysfunctional vibe club over here. Oh trust me I know what you mean! And thanks a lot for the link, I had been looking on Ebay and Craigslist and they are the only sites I could think of to find parts, so that should come in very handy!

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:28 pm

Quote, originally posted by damronjr Â»Oh trust me I know what you mean! And thanks a lot for the link, I had been looking on Ebay and Craigslist and they are the only sites I could think of to find parts, so that should come in very handy! I am a big fan of car-part.com. I would go this route as well. You can get a 2005 motor, even from a corrolla-S ,and you will be good to go. 700 for the motor, and 500 for the Rand R...maybe you can do better.The celica and spyder guys were having problems like this becaus of oil starvation. I believe toyota even had to adress some spec problems for the 1zz in the early years. like 2001. Guys were spinning rod bearings, then getting a knock, then klunk.some of them were able to get warranty, because they had no aftermarket mods. Others were told that their oil levels were too low. Anyway, it is hard to tell what happened. Predentonation would maybe cause the same problem too. If it were me, I would get the salvage motor,put it in, then put the SC back on , just because I hate to be beaton.I am sorry to hear this happened

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 2:49 pm

Quote, originally posted by Faultline Â»I am a big fan of car-part.com. I would go this route as well. You can get a 2005 motor, even from a corrolla-S ,and you will be good to go. 700 for the motor, and 500 for the Rand R...maybe you can do better.The celica and spyder guys were having problems like this becaus of oil starvation. I believe toyota even had to adress some spec problems for the 1zz in the early years. like 2001. Guys were spinning rod bearings, then getting a knock, then klunk.some of them were able to get warranty, because they had no aftermarket mods. Others were told that their oil levels were too low. Anyway, it is hard to tell what happened. Predentonation would maybe cause the same problem too. If it were me, I would get the salvage motor,put it in, then put the SC back on , just because I hate to be beaton.I am sorry to hear this happened Oh I hear you there!

jasonvibe · Post by **jasonvibe** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 1:41 am

The oil filter thing in an earlier post is load of BS. A filter is either filtering or bypassing (due to the oil being thick at cold temps). Either way you have pressure. A tick is often a valve lifter out of spec. Anything louder is usually a rod. The oil pump is direct crank driven. So a low oil press thing is no usual. The 1zz has been around since '98...and had a big write up when it came out. That's why I bought mine. If you have a 1zz w/SC installed? The question is...If dealer installed? YES- This is surely warranty below 36k/3years. Otherwise you at their mercy. I keep my cars for 10yr/120k so I just hope I don't see such issues in the future. I have seen crashed Matrix/Vibes with less than 15k. One down the road a year a go had 5k, it's gone now. I really feel for you.

new05vibeowner · Post by **new05vibeowner** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:17 am

The dealer where I get my Vibe serviced has this on the used lot. I can't vouch for the car since I haven't seen it, but seems like a reasonable amount, especially if you can whittle the price down another $500. You'd probably come out ahead by taking what you need and eBaying the rest. Just a thought.Granted, it's got a lot of miles, but if it runs good and has been taken care of, well, it's not a bad deal.If you're interested, I can run down there and take some pics for you.2003 Pontiac Vibe Price: $4,990 Engine: 1.8L 4 cyl Fuel Injection Interior: Location: Premier Pontiac GMC Mileage: 151,620 Model Code: Stock Number: C6199 Transmission: VIN: 5Y2SL62853Z422674 http://www.premierpontiac.com/...chtml

damronjr · Post by **damronjr** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 6:13 am

Well, regardless of what happens from this point further, the Vibe is home. I called the Bureau of Automotive Repair and they told me to file a claim even though they're not sure they can help. They told me to re-read all the warranty paperwork on the Supercharger and make sure I am fully covered. I plan to remove the CAI and W/I even though it really shouldn't matter when it comes to this. The fact that after hearing the tick, telling me to drive it after an oil change, gave no indication anything was wrong, and it broke down the next day seemed to be enough. I guess we'll find out what happens, but another dealership is probably in the future soon to see if I can get this fixed. 25k mi and a seized engine with no signs of any problems....