Turbo, Supercharger, NOS poll

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 9:06 am

What type of system would you prefer to use on your Vibe (any model) to make major power gains. Just curious to see how people feel on this considering all the debate and info flying around on these topics.

d_m_kolb · Post by **d_m_kolb** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 12:06 pm

I'm in love with the West Covina turbo. That's what I want.

Fritzburg · Post by **Fritzburg** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 8:08 pm

I would prefer the supercharger for usable power throughout the powerband.

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Mon Nov 04, 2002 8:33 pm

Yeah...I'm with Fritz on this one. Better low end than a turbo, even if the WC turbo spools quick. Plus the supercharger won't tear up the stock auto tranny and engine as bad. I'm worried that the turbo would force me to spend more money to make it run the way I want. I like power bands as wide as a Buick, just like the old 2 speed powerglide cars. Power band was so big...they only needed 2 gears.

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 1:41 pm

I have never driven a sc car. But I have owned 2 turbo dieseled trucks.Turbos are fun! the lag that everybody seems to want to get rid of is the very thing that allows you to differentiat between :stock power and turbo power with every acceleration! If I spend a few thousand $ on forced induction,then i want to feel the value of it on the end of every shift!..How often are you going to race someone?? I am not hardly. but i am going to zoom around in my vibe with a big smile on my face! the turbo has to be more fun!The wc turbo gets more power out of the engine, than the SPO sc. Remember,they do not add more power to the engine, they demand more power from it.The engine is what creates the power. the wc turbo concerns me alittle for its aggressive slave driving on the 1zz. I want the engine and the turbo to outlast my vibe payments!but even if the power was the same between the 2 set ups, I will take the turbo!good vibrationsFaultline

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 6:22 pm

I am debating between a turbo and supercharger myself. I'm leaning toward the turbo because of the power output and the fact that it doesn't need a belt driven pulley like the sc to suck away power. It would be nice to see a graph of the powerbands for both torque and hp to compare the turbo and sc. The other concern I have is the spike in power from the turbo that coincides with the change in valve lift in my 2zz engine. I read on a post here (in a quote from the West Covina rep I think) that the pistons in both engines suck and that in the 1zz that they look like toothpicks. This is causing me great concern about the durability of my engine, particularly if I were to add a turbo. It already sounds as though it is being pushed to within an inch of its life when I rev it out. Anyone have any thoughts on a turbo (like the West Covina) blowing this engine up? I'd like to see real evidence for either side of the argument (other than a fried motor under my hood).Also, a friend of mine has a 1995 Eagle Talon AWD 5-speed with the stock Mitsubishi turbo. It has about 80,000 miles on it. He let me drive it once and the effect of the turbo was nothing less than amazing. Acceleration was respectable in the low end and then I let it wind out and it felt like a second engine was turned on as I was pushed back into the seat. The AWD made for nice acceleration grip on the takeoff and handling in the switchback turns. Not bad at all for the mileage and age. Plus he is really hard on cars. Too bad that there is some mysterious recurring electric problem with the engine.

d_m_kolb · Post by **d_m_kolb** » Tue Nov 05, 2002 9:43 pm

The last update I receivd from West Covina a week ago said they hope to have the 1ZZ turbo done buy the end of this year.

Fritzburg · Post by **Fritzburg** » Wed Nov 06, 2002 7:46 pm

A New Years resolution then...I will not drive a car that is not under pressure.....

andrewmva · Post by **andrewmva** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 8:39 am

Great thread!! the age old question Turbo NOS or Supercharger there are 1000 different arguments for each one.... personally, I think it all depends on what you want and how much $$$ you wanna spend, and what kinda power... Turbo: (my choice) High end POWER... this would be the most complicated system (and expensive)out of the 3 choices.SC: low end grunt, good for the daily driver that wants some more power on tap all the time, or for the racer that is going to do a set of pistons with a nice shot of the last choice NOS (2nd most expensive)NOS: cheap raw power.... the best bang for the Buck when used properly, for experienced drivers and tuners. I'm going bir turbo, pistons, rods the whole 9 yards... -but I'm looking for insane power

d_m_kolb · Post by **d_m_kolb** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 10:01 am

Insane power and scary fast are all good things.

KSNeptune · Post by **KSNeptune** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 10:49 am

I would invest in a supercharger. I like the idea of getting a 3-year warranty if a GM dealer installs it. But $2000 is my limit. If they can make it available installed for that then I'll blow my discresionary funds. But in my town there's no place or reason to go "scary fast". I only need to be a little quicker cutting across traffic and merging into traffic. And I want the car to pass easily with only a thought from me.

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Thu Nov 14, 2002 12:56 pm

quote:$2000 is my limit. If they can make it available installed for that then I'll blow my discresionary funds. GM said it should be well under $3000 including install. Meaning it wil probly cost 2500+. I want to know how much it will be if I install it.

Cubanpete · Post by **Cubanpete** » Fri Nov 15, 2002 10:12 pm

I agree, for many reasons, even though the SC needs a pully, this is probably what I may be able to get away with doing by myself, it will suffice with enough HP for what I need, which is daily power under my wheel....Turbo is by far more complex and the Intercooler is also a big deal for me to do....Plus I really hate having to get my car butchered!

slbpsi63 · Post by **slbpsi63** » Mon Dec 09, 2002 9:50 pm

After what happened with the SCC mag project car I think I'm sticking with a supercharger.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 11:40 am

Anyone know what the aproximate change in fuel economy will be with a supercharger? Or what sort of stress it would exert on the engine as most 'factory' supercharged engines (turbo and belt compressor) are built with lower compression than their non supercharged breatheren.Ideally (in my world ) we could have a clutch activated SC so that you could toodle around town with your stock 1zz with no extra stress on the engine then, when the 'mood' struck, activate the SC clutch to engage the SC and... off we go!I realize it would require some interesting intake plumbing but, waaaaaaay back when, the old blower bentleys had a clutch setup. Anyway, what I was getting at was SC power available without the continual 'supercharging stress' on my little engine and fuel economy.Thoughts?

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 11:44 am

As long as you keep your foot off the floor, you shouldn't see a significant decrease in mileage.Here's a good example of what to expect:Pontiac Grand Prix GT: 3.8L V6, automatic = 20 mpg / 30 mpgPontiac Grand Prix GTP: 3.8L V6, supercharger, automatic = 18 mpg / 28 mpgBoth cars have the same engine however the GTP is slightly heavier because of the other GTP equipment so some of that loss in MPG could be due to the extra weight. The addition of just the supercharger to your Vibe won't significantly increase the weight.

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 12:37 pm

Unfortunately Chriss, If you get the sc , scott is right as usuall, you can drive it in a way to get good fuel economy, but........................you have to switch to high octane gas when you are driveng a sc good vibesfaultline

NovaResource · Post by **NovaResource** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 10:00 pm

Good point! I forgot about that. You will have to use high octane fuel which will cost more.

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 5:35 am

Thanks guys! I'll wait 'till Nova gets his SC and see how he likes it first

andrewmva · Post by **andrewmva** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 2:16 am

you'll still get better mileage than a V8hell depending on the set up and driving conditions it is possible to get better mileage

andrewmva · Post by **andrewmva** » Sat Jan 18, 2003 2:39 am

You should ALWAYS run 92 oct or the best stuff your local place has..... or your valves will look like this..... it is out of a prelude with less than 30,000 miles on it..

DABEAR95 · Post by **DABEAR95** » Thu Jan 23, 2003 10:31 pm

Correct me if I am wrong, but in allot of domestic turbo applications that I have seen, turbo's actually deliver more torque than superchargers. Is the supercharger for the Vibe a positive displacement like the Eaton? If so, that would explain it as centrifugal superchargers build boost with RPM.JasonEDIT- I like the idea of nitrous in a vehicle like the Vibe. I get no change in engine performance when I don't need it. Then I flip a switch to open the bottle, flip another to warm the bottle, flip antother to arm, stick foot to floor, vroom...

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Mon Feb 10, 2003 3:02 pm

hey jason, yes the Vibe SC is an eaton ---a PDC , I have no clue what driveng one is like,but yeah...imediate grunt. The turbo I am putting in my car will probably not spool up till around 3000 rpms,maybe less, but any how, I belive it will be possible to drive it w/o boosting much at all, like cruising at 70mph in 5th at 2500rpms or less... and I suppose my mileage will be good driving llike this,but then down shift to 3rd at the same speed...then we are off..boosting into 4th , then 5th, ..it is going to be fun... I vote for turbo twice

MJN2 · Post by **MJN2** » Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:49 am

A little insight into driving an SC car. I had a 1993 T-Bird SC for several years. Raced a friend of mine that had a 98 Eclipse GST. Both have similar horsepower ratings (210 stock). Off the line I dusted him because of the immediate power of the SC and the 310+ ft/lbs of torque. Once we got to the higher RPMS, he caught up because of the turbo. Oh, and the 1000 fewer pounds of his car didn't hurt either

SFpower · Post by **SFpower** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 7:38 am

all i know is i've drove the turbo vibe and it kicks but i've a but i've also dove miatas w/ atorotors it was alot of fun but not the same power plus if the factory produces a supercharger kit its gona be 2995.00 for 50 bucks worth of power

SFpower · Post by **SFpower** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 7:39 am

the bigest reason you took him off the line is rear wheel drive

SFpower · Post by **SFpower** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 7:42 am

the bigest prblem w/ nos is unleaded feul and it drys out the cylinders and that can be very hard on the rings

SFpower · Post by **SFpower** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 8:24 am

it was prbly a small shot under 100 hp the scaring of the cyclinders hapends along the rist pins but it could be a problem w/ handas

SFpower · Post by **SFpower** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 8:30 am

whoops

SFpower · Post by **SFpower** » Fri Feb 21, 2003 8:33 am

i just talked to fualtline and i am going to take his vibe to the track tonite and tomarrow ill post the times for my turbo kit on a vibe

DABEAR95 · Post by **DABEAR95** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 4:51 am

I've been doing some reading and HP per HP nitrous many times provides the greatest reduction in 1/4 times. Not only does it add HP but it generates tremendous torque, especially at lower RPM's. Until the bottle runs out, lolJason

SFpower · Post by **SFpower** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 7:08 am

that is correct it is the most effiecent form of power adder .no parrasidic draw how ever same ol story the bottle dosnt ever last long enough

HIGHREV · Post by **HIGHREV** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 9:53 am

On the gas thing, does anybody run 87/89 in thier Gt. When I got my car it had a ping upon 1st gear take off. I figured out that the dealer filled it with 87. With my first fill up of 93 the ping went away. the bad detonation is bad for rings,valve & plugs. In a T or SC would only aggravate these things.I had a 87 Buick GN, I was hooked on boost within a 1/4 mile.

Post by **NSimkins** » Thu Feb 27, 2003 10:23 am

quote:GN, what is a GN, wondering.Grand NationalExample: http://www.buickgn.com/boost.html

ShotInTheDark · Post by **ShotInTheDark** » Fri Feb 28, 2003 1:45 am

not even close to a monte carlo. they had a 3.8 liter turbo motor in them. one of the best sleeper cars of all times. My dad has a monte carlo ss from 86 that we put a 350 small block in and those grand nationals still ran circles around us.

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sun Mar 09, 2003 12:42 am

Did the GN have a 3.8 SC or 3.8 turbo?

MadBill · Post by **MadBill** » Mon Mar 10, 2003 12:29 am

Turbo.

microELVIS · Post by **microELVIS** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 3:08 am

Ya im a GN owner, and I have also driven big V8s but no SC. The big motors are cool, but I love the turbo, its so cool.Id say in a 1/4 it all depends on how you drive a turbo or sc car. With my gn you have to brake torque until you get some boost like 5lbs or something, if you dont you'll probably get blown out of the hole. Its all in your launch and how you have the car setup. My spool as been but somewhat with some modifications, and will be yet again with an exhaust this month. Im pretty sure a vibe will also be tweaked, it'll be interesting to see what happens.Its all personal preference, too bad you coudlnt try 'em both and see what you like best.

Celtic_Curse · Post by **Celtic_Curse** » Mon Oct 13, 2003 3:20 pm

I think Turbo could be way more fun, upgradeable and more unique to each owner, as a factory option a few people will most likely get it as an option, however turboing the engine takes more of a custome rought don't you think? besides it be fun to see what would win in a three wat race S/C vibe vs. Turbo Vibe vs. GT...love to see that one. $3000 American is alot to spend either way seems like you get more power from the Turbo. My two bits.

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sun Oct 19, 2003 8:49 am

Ok..I'm up for the race!

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 5:26 pm

Quote, originally posted by microELVIS Â»Its all personal preference, too bad you coudlnt try 'em both and see what you like best.Too true. Only driven 1 supercharged car. A 98 buick Riviera. It's the fwd 3.8 supercharged to 240 hp. Base power was already 200, so it added just enough for some get-up. As for turbo cars, I've really only driven 2. A VW Golf (test-drive), and my buddies Saab.I still want a GMC Syclone or Typhoon. Mmmm...4.3 liter turbo charged AND all-wheel-drive. Napkin please.

Pablo1669 · Post by **Pablo1669** » Tue Nov 25, 2003 11:24 pm

Quote, originally posted by Flip-Side Â»Too true. Only driven 1 supercharged car. A 98 buick Riviera. It's the fwd 3.8 supercharged to 240 hp. Base power was already 200, so it added just enough for some get-up. As for turbo cars, I've really only driven 2. A VW Golf (test-drive), and my buddies Saab.I still want a GMC Syclone or Typhoon. Mmmm...4.3 liter turbo charged AND all-wheel-drive. Napkin please. My dad had a syclone for like 2 years, it really pissed me off when he sold it, 1 month before I turned 16. probably a good thing, because at 16, I would have killed myself in a truck like that. At least I got to drive it a few times at 15 with my permit, and him in the passenger seat.