04 Vibe SC vs Turbo

Supercharger, turbo, nitrous, and anything that has to do with forced induction
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lordsaber
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:11 am

04 Vibe SC vs Turbo

Post by lordsaber »

Wow, u all have gave me much to think about, now the only thing that remains....other then my cash.. is if i get a turbo or SC and what brands. Any thoughts? Basically looking for best performance boost without killing the whole bank and blowing up my engine. 2004 base 5 spd manual.
GrayFox
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Re: 04 Vibe SC vs Turbo (lordsaber)

Post by GrayFox »

search around... this has been debated alot and it's really up to you and your bank account Turbos are more expensive, more work (depending on if you get a kit or go custom), but offer more power and are easily tunable.Superchargers are less expensive... pretty much the only option for us is the GM/TRD SC. You could go custom (Blaqjaq would be the man to talk to. He has a custom Vortec setup) but there's probly more money involved.On a stock motor the GM/TRD SC will put you around 170hp at the crank... A turbo will most likely get you over 200hp to the wheels Good luck and let us know what you decide.
tangerine
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Post by tangerine »

Turbo, no brainer.
04 Fusion Orange Base Vibe auto Now no longer with us thanks to ignorant drivers...
kevera
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Re: (tangerine)

Post by kevera »

Hope you have 4 to 6 grand ready to splash on a turbo setup.
June '07 VOTM Sept '07 MOTM HCVO /HCMO The Red Devil
AKLGT
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Re: 04 Vibe SC vs Turbo (ANO_Vibe)

Post by AKLGT »

Quote, originally posted by ANO_Vibe »search around... this has been debated alot and it's really up to you and your bank account Turbos are more expensive, more work (depending on if you get a kit or go custom), but offer more power and are easily tunable.Superchargers are less expensive... pretty much the only option for us is the GM/TRD SC. You could go custom (Blaqjaq would be the man to talk to. He has a custom Vortec setup) but there's probly more money involved.On a stock motor the GM/TRD SC will put you around 170hp at the crank... A turbo will most likely get you over 200hp to the wheels Good luck and let us know what you decide.what he said. you will be looking to spend some money, min of $3K after all is said and done for a s/c and upwards of $5K+ for turbo.
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
tangerine
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Post by tangerine »

The 3k for a S/C is why the Turbo is a no brainer if you are going to go FI. 3 grand for 30 hp vs 5 grand for 100(ish). I think I'd spend the extra 2 grand. :D
04 Fusion Orange Base Vibe auto Now no longer with us thanks to ignorant drivers...
drunkenmaxx
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Re: (tangerine)

Post by drunkenmaxx »

amen brother! with the SC, you will still most likely get beat by the 2zz... stock.if you have the means, go turbo!
chew aura pizza cheat main"the world in my hands, there's noone left to hear you scream, noone's there for you"
Mavrik
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Re: (drunkenmaxx)

Post by Mavrik »

Well ask yourself why you want one. To get going faster? to smoke hondas? the ultimate sleeper? Or do you just want the car to get out of its own way when you press the gas?Supercharger usually provides instant power, no spooling involved. It doesn't however provide a lot of power when compared to a 2zz or a turbo'd engine. It is however about the safest mod of the two considering it doesn't take the engine past its designed limits by much.The turbo however has a lot more power however not instant. You'll experience whats called "turbo lag" and then hang on for the yahoo! Depending on the amount of boost you'll want to run (control this with a boost controller) you may end up rebuilding the engine so it can handle the boost. I believe most who turbo charged their 04 Vibe 1zz engines were running 5-7 pounds of boost. DEVLOP I think had his at 10 every now and again. It was still a pretty quick car.And as everyone has been saying, the turbo will cost more but I don't think its much harder to install then a supercharger. Plus a FMIC looks good through the grill.
2007 stage 2 Satin White Pearl Subaru STi 2008 stage 2 Subaru STi hatch See my car at: Mavrik's car page
Lancer
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Re: (Mavrik)

Post by Lancer »

Actually, A stock 2zz and a 'stock sc'ed 1zz are very close in performance. The 1zz will smoke the 2zz of the line. But the 2zz will 'eventually ' catch up and slip by once your going over 85mph. Power just goes kaputBUT! You can still modify your s/c 1zz enough to SMOKE (yeah, I said it!! ) even a moderately modified 2zz. Until you hit your 125mph speed limiter. Then count about 5 Mississippi's. At which point, you'll hear, then see the 2zz scream by.
18" Enkei's & Kumho Ecsta's-------UNICHIP Eibach Sport springs----------Morroso oil pan Injen CAI & Oil cap----------Stage 2 FI cams Custom Exhaust-----------TRD Supercharger AEM alt. pulley -------JSP Carbon Fiber hood 380cc injectors----DC Sports ceramic header
Imager
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Re: (Lancer)

Post by Imager »

Find this on Ebay:"Do you want a faster quarter mile time? Have a Quicker 0-60 time? Shorten your 180ft time? Then this item is for you. You are looking at a BRAND NEW, never used Electric Supercharger. It can be mounted onto all years of. This kit contains all the parts - switches, wires. It even includes a BRAND NEW HIGH-FLOW AIR FILTER. And as an added bonus I will also include a free, YES I said Free IAT performance chip, this is a 10.00 value Absolutely Free. This Mod will also increase your HP by 7-15hp.Most superchargers require extensive modification of your engine - including additional belts and pulleys which actually drain horsepower from your engine just to run, This unit I sell Runs off of a safe 12 volt source. And since your alternator is already creating the power it has no HP drain on your car. (Unlike the inefficient old fashion models) and with my supercharger it will not damage your engine with overwhelming pressure - no bent/broken rods, no blow-by, no detonation - it is completely safe for your car's engine.With my system don’t be surprised to see double-digit horsepower and torque increases. And also this supercharger's results have been tested with an accelerometer - don't be surprised to see your 0-60, 180ft, and quarter mile times decrease.How does it work?Simple, this device connects to the end of your intake on your vehicle, (either stock or aftermarket) you run the wires (which are included) to the unit, you connect one of the wires to a Switch. (Included) and connect the other end of the switch to a power source. And ground the other wire of the unit to a ground source. And connect the filter to the intake part of the unit, with a flick of the cockpit mounted switch while you are at full throttle you will have up to a 500 CFM blast ramming extra cold air into your motor, This motor is capable of up to 2lbs of boost at over 8000rpm. This setup would work great in conjunction with a NOS fogger system. Even without NOS it will give you all the extra boost you will need to make your engine scream for more. And you will get more. More HP that is. And the best part is there is no need for a expensive boost controller or a hard to work turbo timer, any extra cooling items or any other confusing equipment to make you car look gaudy.Why should you bid on mine?I offer the best deal on Ebay for this item. I will include all you need to hook it up including. Wire and not the cheap crap others give you. I provide 12ft of high quality 14 gauge for the power and 8ft of 14gauge for the ground; I also include the rubber connector for your intake to the supercharger, the cockpit switch and a high quality K&N style cone filter. This is the most complete kit on Ebay today and also the cheapest, Others list so major incomplete kits, they send you on a wild goose chase for items you may or may not find, and others who sell them with filters send you a bottom of the barrel filter you can buy for 8.00 at a flea market, when you get done you can easily spend 40.00 on all the other pieces you need to make this work. Plus how much is your time worth.Vehicle requirements: 3" air intake tube outlet / 3" aftermarket air intake tube outlet. Must have room for item (see size below), may require removal of stock air box or aftermarket intake, or shortening of aftermarket intake. Not for use on factory turbocharged/supercharged vehicles. Not for use on non-fuel injected cars. Installs in under an hour. Leaves no permanent modifications to vehicle. Does not reduce airflow while not in use.Specifications: 5" x 5.5" x 6.75" w/o filter - 5" x 5.5" x 12" with filter. Tough reinforced ABS plastic housing - Efficient high volume airflow - low current draw - corrosion resistant material throughout - ignition protected.FAQQ. Does your system include a High Performance Air filterA. Yes! With my system you will receive a brand new K&N Style high performance filter to use with your supercharger. How many others offer this option.Q. Does your system include all the necessary piece to hook it up?A. Yes! With my supercharger you will receive all the necessary parts you need. Including the Supercharger, Air filter, Clamps, Hoses, Switch, Connector And the IAT performance mod for free. Q. Does it include instructions? A. Of course it does, they are easy to follow instructions. Q. Will I have to get larger injectors, a more power fuel pump, or a fuel pressure regulator, or will I need a larger or bigger exhaust. A. While these modifications will work in conjunction with the supercharger to give you even more power, they are not necessary to see high horsepower gains. This is bolt on horsepower at its best - everything you need is included in the kit. While larger exhaust, a high-flow catalytic converter, and/or headers will complement this system and allow even more air to flow through it is not necessary to get impressive performance out of the supercharger. Like we said - just bolt on and go. ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FEEL FREE TO ASK.PLEASE CHECK THE SHIPPING PRICE AND BID ACCORDINGLY, SHIPPING PRICE IS NOT JUST THE PRICE TO SHIP IT ALSO INCLUDES HANDELING, AND MATERIALS THIS ALSO MAKES UP FOR THE LOW STARTING PRICE WHICH IS $30.00 LESS THEN MY COMPETOTORS.MOST ITEMS SHIPPED IN 1 TO 2 BUISSNESS DAYS, SOME TIME MAY TAKE A BIT LONGERDUE TO EXTREMELY HIGH ORDER VOLUME, BACKORDERS ARE POSSIBLE WHICH COULD MAKE SHIPPING TIMES UP TO 3-4 EXTRA DAYS. insurance is included with shipping cost.Due to the installation factors of this product seller cannot be responsible for negligence or misuse on your behalf.There will be no returns accepted for this item due to the nature of the installation by you or someone else other than the seller. If you do not agree with these terms please do not bid. Warranty/Guarantee Policy: There will be no warranty/guarantee expressed or implied for this item because you will be the one responsible for the installation and the handling of this product not the seller. Seller does not accept responsibility for any damages done to your vehicle and/or vehicle warranty void if item is installed incorrectly. Item is considered sold as is, please check with your vehicle’s manufacturers warranty before purchasing. Actual horsepower gains will vary depending on the vehicle, octane value of the fuel, altitude, air temperature, & other various factors, seller is not responsible for the amount of HP produced, in some States this item may be considered for off road use only; check local laws before purchasing.Not designed to be used on factory supercharged/turbocharged vehicles."He is selling it for $95.It is poop or a cheap way to boost hp or fuel mileage.I am really after better gas mileage.Read that the Turbonator, Tornado stuff are boogus.Also notice it is a K&N "STYLE" Filter.

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AKLGT
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Re: (Lancer)

Post by AKLGT »

Quote, originally posted by Lancer »Actually, A stock 2zz and a 'stock sc'ed 1zz are very close in performance. The 1zz will smoke the 2zz of the line. But the 2zz will 'eventually ' catch up and slip by once your going over 85mph. Power just goes kaputBUT! You can still modify your s/c 1zz enough to SMOKE (yeah, I said it!! ) even a moderately modified 2zz. Until you hit your 125mph speed limiter. Then count about 5 Mississippi's. At which point, you'll hear, then see the 2zz scream by. quite true. however, the cost to do such would unfortunately not outweigh buying the 2zz in the first place. however, if you take said 2zz and spent the same ammt of $$ in performance mods as the 1zz, the 2zz will again leave the 1zz in it's dust. slap on a turbo to the 2zz and voila! you got yourself a 13 sec or 14 sec car easy. (on a safe tune with safe daily driving power). with enough time and money, you can make anything into a super quick grocery getter!
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
Lancer
Posts: 1365
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Re: (Imager)

Post by Lancer »

If you buy that, We area all going to cyber slap you!! Don't waste your money, just get a better intake. Cold air, short ram, or even a better drop in will do better than that little hair dryer.Quote, originally posted by AKLGT »quite true. however, the cost to do such would unfortunately not outweigh buying the 2zz in the first place. however, if you take said 2zz and spent the same ammt of $$ in performance mods as the 1zz, the 2zz will again leave the 1zz in it's dust. slap on a turbo to the 2zz and voila! you got yourself a 13 sec or 14 sec car easy. (on a safe tune with safe daily driving power). with enough time and money, you can make anything into a super quick grocery getter! 1). Didn't get that first part, but I see you posted it late at night. 2). All depens on your application that you spend said money on.3). You can slap a bigger turbo on a 1zz and *poof* you've got yourself a 12 sec. car. Gotta stop saying that one car will beat another. There are so many ways to make a car fast not to mention the driver element. Just ask T&A @ MO about his beater Honda stomping on exotics.
18" Enkei's & Kumho Ecsta's-------UNICHIP Eibach Sport springs----------Morroso oil pan Injen CAI & Oil cap----------Stage 2 FI cams Custom Exhaust-----------TRD Supercharger AEM alt. pulley -------JSP Carbon Fiber hood 380cc injectors----DC Sports ceramic header
AKLGT
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Post by AKLGT »

yes. late night posts cannot always make sense. but what i was trying to say is that the cost of all the mods to make it as fast as a stock 2zz may not be less than just buying the 2zz in the first place. but then you could spend about the same amount on the 2zz and get the car even faster. I'm still waiting to see what the turbo'd 2zz's have done at the track? and yes, the driver can make the difference. our friend has an 11 sec sti. he went to the track only 2 times now and he got it down to 12.8 but our buddy Dale, drove it once down the track and did 12.4. plenty more left in the car for even faster times. also, my friend with his Legacy STI swapped wagon that's 5MT vs my exact same vehicle with the same mods but auto, his best time was 13.85 vs my 13.19. His car is just as capable as mine, but he botched his launches and ended up with higher track times.
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
djb383
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Post by djb383 »

Info please. If the 1ZZ, for example, were to see, let's say 6 psi max boost from either a s/c or a turbo, would one compressor have a power advantage over the other, at the same amount of boost? To keep things simple, let's rule out parasitic drag and lag and just concentrate on the same amount of boost (6 psi). Thanks.
'05 Lava Tutone base, Pwr Grp, Moon & Tunes, 16" alloys, Auto.....Yep, it's gotta HEMI
AKLGT
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Post by AKLGT »

remember, the 1zz can run much more boost due to the compression ratio.
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
djb383
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Re: (AKLGT)

Post by djb383 »

Again, somewhere close to apples-to-apples. Six psi boost, s/c or turbo, on the same engine......does one compressor have an advantage over the other?
'05 Lava Tutone base, Pwr Grp, Moon & Tunes, 16" alloys, Auto.....Yep, it's gotta HEMI
pacerman
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Post by pacerman »

Found this site, don't know how accurate this is......http://www.csgnetwork.com/blowerhpcalc.html
2005 Vibe...Abyss ...AWD53 Stude HT, 76 AMC Pacer, 91 Camry 4WD,318 John Deere, Strong GS-210 Electric Bike
Faultline
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Re: (djb383)

Post by Faultline »

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »Again, somewhere close to apples-to-apples. Six psi boost, s/c or turbo, on the same engine......does one compressor have an advantage over the other? First of all, PSI is pressure. It is also the pressure created by a resistance of the air going into the motor. What makes the power is the volume of air going thru the motor.But we always measure the PSi, not CFM.So, suppose you have a said turbo, and run it at 6psi. Then you take off the head , and have it ported. Replace the head, and now it flows much better. To create 6psi (manifold pressure) , you will flow much more air, and create more power with the same turbo at the same psi all because you ported the head. Lesson to learn: 6psi turbo vs 6psi SC does not mean anything. Also, the intake air temps will be different between the 2 compressors. That will change the airs volume at any given Psi. Colder air condenses=more volume=more power. Also.........The eaton roots blowers are positive displacement compressors. This means that as the lobes of the SC turn, it positively puhes large chambers of air into the motor. It must. Its great, because of its belt driven nature, and lobes, it creates its pressure immediately.A turbo compressor is a dymamic compressor . It compresses the air in the snail by a little fan type wheel that turns of up/over 100,000 rpms. The air is compressed as it leaves the housing. It can still be resisted, or slowed down. The SC compressor, and turbo commpressor are different create pressure differently. Each has its advantage, I chose turbo
pics 10/2/05 http://photobucket.com/albums/a386/Faultline05/2003 Base Vibe, frosty color,moon n' tunes packagemods: Eibach sportline lowering springs,17"centerline forged wheels -silver excels -Goodyear Eagle F1 tires 225/50/17's-ACT HD clutch,2.5" exhaust,ES motormount inserts,up graded to 6 spd transmissionStafford Fabrication turbo kit: Garrett T3 turbo, FMIC ,SF BOV. ,Alcohol/water injection,and SF centerfeed fuel rail
AKLGT
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Re: (djb383)

Post by AKLGT »

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »Again, somewhere close to apples-to-apples. Six psi boost, s/c or turbo, on the same engine......does one compressor have an advantage over the other? as faultline explained, it isn't APPLES TO APPLES comparison. you simply cannot do that. there are too many variables to do that. you just have to know what each system does and what/when your power curve is. basic/general rule for s/c vs turbo:1. if you want everyday power and low end torque, go with a s/c2. if you want power, but do not necessarily need instant torque, go with a turbo. the larger the turbo, the more turbo lag you will have since it will take longer to spool up and make power.
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
djb383
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Post by djb383 »

So, 6 psi from a s/c is somehow different than 6 psi from a t/c.......using the same engine?
'05 Lava Tutone base, Pwr Grp, Moon & Tunes, 16" alloys, Auto.....Yep, it's gotta HEMI
AKLGT
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Post by AKLGT »

yes. they are different. their boosting points will be different. you cannot compare them apples to apples because they do different things at different times. all you can do is look at a dyno chart for a s/c 1zz vs a turbo 1zz and look at their power/tq curves, when they receive power and tq, etc. or if you are lucky enough to have 2 people with similar cars, having one set up: turbo or s/c. I have not been in a s/c vibe, however, i have in a turbo'd vibe with Devlop's old Vibe Turbo. in fact, that is one of the reasons why we went turbo vs s/c because i wanted that power up top and not just the power in the low end that tapers down. i can deal with the slight turbo lag, and spending the money, may as well get the most out of it imo. i know vibechick also bought a turbo'd car from those rides too. i drove the s/c ion redline and wasn't impressed. but then again, it's not really fair to compare when i drive well over 300 hp vehicle as my daily driver, and after test driving an EVO 9MR and MS6. we should have test driven the ion first, then the MS6 then the Evo. of course, i then test drove an STI (all stock), and recently we took out a MS3 (quite impressive!). I hate to say it, but if i had a base vibe and thinking of turbo'ing or f/i, i would greatly consider trading it in for the MS3 as the price is great the performance and handling out of the box is also excellent.
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
djb383
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Post by djb383 »

Thanks for the input. It appears that a s/c and a t/c do the same thing, boost, but at different points in the rpm range. After reading numerous articles at Google about s/c and t/c, there seems to be almost as big a debate as what's the best motor oil. Again, thanks.
'05 Lava Tutone base, Pwr Grp, Moon & Tunes, 16" alloys, Auto.....Yep, it's gotta HEMI
Mavrik
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Re: (djb383)

Post by Mavrik »

Quote, originally posted by djb383 »Thanks for the input. It appears that a s/c and a t/c do the same thing, boost, but at different points in the rpm range. After reading numerous articles at Google about s/c and t/c, there seems to be almost as big a debate as what's the best motor oil. Again, thanks.turbo vs supercharger, mobil vs royal purple (or amsol) STi vs Evo, automatic transmission skill vs manual transmission skill... many large never ending battles out there.
2007 stage 2 Satin White Pearl Subaru STi 2008 stage 2 Subaru STi hatch See my car at: Mavrik's car page
djb383
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Re: (Mavrik)

Post by djb383 »

Couldn't agree more, especially since the keyboard has generated far more "experts" than a good education and sound research have.
'05 Lava Tutone base, Pwr Grp, Moon & Tunes, 16" alloys, Auto.....Yep, it's gotta HEMI
kevera
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Re: (Mavrik)

Post by kevera »

I guess I might add my 2 cents.Since I have an auto,I decided to go s/c.I've never been crazy about turbo and auto.It worked out great for me,lots of low end torque that I didn't have before.So it gives the auto crowd some options.
June '07 VOTM Sept '07 MOTM HCVO /HCMO The Red Devil
djb383
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Re: (kevera)

Post by djb383 »

Quote, originally posted by kevera »I guess I might add my 2 cents.Since I have an auto,I decided to go s/c.I've never been crazy about turbo and auto.It worked out great for me,lots of low end torque that I didn't have before.So it gives the auto crowd some options.
'05 Lava Tutone base, Pwr Grp, Moon & Tunes, 16" alloys, Auto.....Yep, it's gotta HEMI
AKLGT
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Post by AKLGT »

ya, i would not want a turbo'd auto if it didn't hve the manual shift option. then you can't enjoy all that extra power (as much... not saying you can't enjoy it at all).
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
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