Need electrical? system help

Stereo, security systems, vehicle electronics, and electrical-related discussions
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riverpa
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:42 pm

Need electrical? system help

Post by riverpa »

Hi folks, I'm new here, I have been lurking and reading occasionally for years but this is my first post. Haven't had any issues to speak of with my 2009 2.4 Vibe until this year.

First the CVT is shot, chalk that up to the idiot mechanic who overfilled it with fluid which I did not catch for two years until the damage was done. But it ran well enough to take me to Florida and back when I needed it to (2k miles round trip).

Anyway, after returning from that trip and mostly sitting around due to COVID, it started throwing some codes and gas mileage went south. I convinced a guy at one of the Auto stores to lend me a reader and pulled the codes, they were not good. Took it to my (new) mechanic who said it would not be worth doing the diagnostic work to find out what was really wrong.

Well, one of the common threads through a couple of those codes was that it could be due to a weak battery. I looked at my battery and it was 6 years old, so I figured it would be worth it to try a new(er) one to see if that helped.

Cut to the chase I cross connected a battery and sent up a big spark.

I've searched all over the internet and found the threads about the 120A fuse and how difficult it is to get it out and I will attest that it is. First time around though, I had not yet gotten it out and I had an electrician friend over who tested all the connections and they said there was no problem, we put the fuse box back together and it started right up. I drove it over 200 miles in the next week or so and it was fine until I went to start it and nothing, nada, back to no reaction from the car from anything, starter, fob, nothing, same as before.

So that's when I dissected the fuse box further and got the 120A box out and we test that and still no problems. I took out every fuse and tested them, no issues there.

Does anyone have any ideas about this? From reading everyone else's experiences on the web I figured it had to be the 120A fuse but it would not miraculously heal itself so I could drive it for the week in the middle and then die again. I cannot figure out what else to look at.

All I really wanted was to drive it until it died a natural death, from the CVT issues, which I knew would happen some time. So this is really bothering me. Love my VIbe, hate to see it die. Level of experience working on cars is next to zero, but I figured I couldn't screw up the Vibe any more since the next stop would be Vibe heaven.

riverpa
andrewclaus
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Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:38 pm
Location: Golden, CO

Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by andrewclaus »

It would help to know the diagnostic codes, and what the battery voltage was at the time the codes were recorded.

This the first I've heard of a CVT in a Vibe.
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joatmon
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by joatmon »

First, Welcome to genvibe!

Second, sorry to hear about the troubles

When I've had random loss of all electrical power issues, it's been from corroded battery terminals. Others here have sometimes had problems with ground connections from the battery.

When its dead, is it everything dead, no lights/horn/anything? I don't have wiring diagrams for the 09. On the 03-08, there are things that get power not through the big fuse (its only 100A on the 03-08) A couple of those that are easy to check are horn, hazard lights, dome light.
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riverpa
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:42 pm

Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by riverpa »

I can't find the codes that I pulled - but really, I don't think they had anything to do with this issue, except they were the reason I wanted to swap out the battery. This trouble happened when I was trying to switch out the battery to see if the codes would go away, and cross connected it by mistake. The car was still running with those codes, even though the gas mileage was really bad.

As far as what was powered/not powered, nothing had power. Not the instrument panel, not the car fob to unlock the doors. Turn the key and absolutely nothing happened, no click or anything. The battery terminals were cleaned with a wire brush, the ground cable just replaced. Brand new battery. Tested it first with a different functional battery before I bought the new one. When it worked with that one I went out and bought a new one.

Drove around for 8 or 10 days with no problems, then the same thing happened again, totally dead. Luckily I was only a couple miles from home.

Thanks
riverpa
riverpa
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:42 pm

Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by riverpa »

PS - If someone could move this thread to the proper category I would appreciate it.
Thanks
zbyers
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by zbyers »

Is the vehicle cranking when you try to start it? It's possible the starter decided to die and/or the connector to it has an issue. What about the alternator?

If your dash lights and everything else are coming on, I would suspect an issue with the above.

As for the tranny, I highly doubt the transmission is totally destroyed. You could probably drain and fill it a few times and extend the life of it. I know overfilling can harm it, but that is less harmful than underfilling.
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tpollauf
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by tpollauf »

Welcome to GenVibe finally :lol: As others have pointed out, we need more info to further help you. Specifically mileage and where has this Vibe spent most of it's life (geographical location). Is it a rust free Vibe OR has salt/brine destroyed a lot of metal and you have rust? Corrosion will definitely affect the electrical issues and could be related to what's going on. Are you the original owner?
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jolt
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by jolt »

Your going to have to take a volt meter and start checking to see where you are losing your voltage at. In this case you are going to have to start at the battery and work your way in BUT does the battery have a charge in it or is the battery dead? If the battery is completely discharged, you are not going to have anything electrical work. If the battery is dead after sitting, you have a drain on the battery and you need to find that.
riverpa
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Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2020 11:42 pm

Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by riverpa »

Thanks all,

zbyers - absolutely nothing happens when the key is turned. no noises, no lights, nothing. No key fob activation.

The mileage is in the 150's - 160's I think. Can't get more specific without power to the dashboard. I am the second owner, I have had it since 2012. Not on the seacoast, but it is not garaged, out in the open all the time. No visible rust. It's a new battery. Everything worked fine for 8 or 10 days, then it pooped out again.

I tested every fuse in the engine compartment fuse box, including the ones in the white box. I don't know how to test the relays. I'm in the middle of putting it back together again now, it will be interesting to see if it starts up again like it did last time when we reassembled it.

riverpa
andrewclaus
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by andrewclaus »

What is the battery voltage right now, when the car is dead?
riverpa
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by riverpa »

So, I put it all back together, though I couldn't click all the parts of the fuse box back together.

Tested the battery before I hooked it up - 12.48.

Turned the key - got a quick flash of light on the dash and a quick buzzer (door open maybe?), and then - nothing. Couldn't get that buzzer or flash any more. No cabin lights, no emergency flashers or radio or anything.

Back to dead.

My next step, I guess, is to check all the inside fuse box fuses. When it's daylight. That might not be till Monday since I have stuff to do on the weekend. Unless anyone here has any other ideas.

If I didn't have the 8 -10 days in the middle where everything was functioning fine it wouldn't be such a mystery.

Thanks

riverpa
andrewclaus
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by andrewclaus »

Check battery voltage with ignition switch on, too.
jolt
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by jolt »

Pull the battery and take it to a parts store and have it load tested. What is voltage with key on and what is voltage when key is turned to engage the starter? Did you hook the battery to a battery charger? What happens if you try to jump start the car?

You are sounding like you have a bad battery, bad cables, and/or bad/por connections.
SSizler
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by SSizler »

No one has mentioned it yet, possibly a bad ignition switch?
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joatmon
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by joatmon »

SSizler wrote: Sat Aug 29, 2020 8:41 am No one has mentioned it yet, possibly a bad ignition switch?
I was wondering that also, until he finally mentioned that he wasn't getting any emergency flashers. Those are supposed to work all the time, key in or not, they're independent of the ignition switch. Same with the horn.
Unless there's been some weird power system mod done
jolt wrote: Thu Aug 27, 2020 8:42 pm You are sounding like you have a bad battery, bad cables, and/or bad/poor connections.
that's what it sounds like to me too

but it could be some mystery ailment none of us would have suspected. Those have bitten me int he past
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riverpa
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by riverpa »

So, sorry for the long delay,life got in the way.

Anyway,I had a few minutes to look at my problem Vibe before dark this evening.

Battery charge has dropped from healthy 12.48 last week to an anemic 3.58 today. Something is not good there. It is a Walmart battery, but I don't think they can be that bad to go bad in a month.

I saw that there are fusible links on the hot cable from the battery to the fuse block. But, while 3.58 is a pretty bad reading, it remained the same between the two poles of the battery and between the ground and the fuse block. So I don't think the fusible links are blown.

That was as far as I got today.

All I can think of now is that there must be a short somewhere to drain the battery that far in a week.

riverpa
andrewclaus
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by andrewclaus »

Anything under 11 Volts is essentially completely discharged.

Disconnect the battery and charge it back up. Leave it disconnected and check its voltage level for a few days, if you have time. Or take to to the vendor and ask them to load test it.

If no fuses are blown, you don't have a short. But you may have a heavy parasitic draw. Test for it with this procedure: https://testmeterpro.com/parasitic-draw ... ultimeter/.
jolt
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Re: Need electrical? system help

Post by jolt »

The battery is bad or you have a drain on the electrical system. Pull the battery, charge it, and see if it will hold a charge as andrewclaus has said or pull it and take it back to the store and let them test it. If the battery test good and holds a charge then test amp draw from the battery to the car with nothing turned on.

If you hooked the new battery up backwards, you may have damaged the battery and/or you could have also damaged the alternator diodes.
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