Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational ***

Stereo, security systems, vehicle electronics, and electrical-related discussions
Calata
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Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational ***

Post by Calata »

Now that the factory warranty is about to expire, I will be adding HIDs to the vibe. While I didn't mind the DRL with halogens, I want to save bulb life with the HIDs as the car is driven 80% during the day. I like the Automatic lights at night feature as it helps save a dead battery since the lights cannot be forgotten ON accidentally. I've read all the other DRL disable mods on here and honestly do not like them. I've also seen others who want to disable the DRLs but keep the night lights.I would like this confirmed by someone else who is also good with reading electrical diagrams. ***** Confirmed operational in last post of this page ***** I've come to the conclusion that the only way that this mod can be done and function correctly, is buy cutting pin 6 at the DRL, and jumping it to pin 14 at the DRL. Since both wires are GROUND triggers for the relay coils, there's no large amperage draw at all. Page 1 is Lights Discription and OperationPage 2 is ORIGINAL Wiring DiagramPage 3 is MODIFIED Wiring DiagramPage 4 is the DRL Module Pin layout

Attached files VibeHeadlightOperation.pdf (269.3 KB) 
Sublimewind
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Post by Sublimewind »

Interesting thought, but, on the flip side of that, if you disable the DRL, you also disable that area of safety, which is visibility, not yours, but of others around you... I can't tell you how many times i've seen (sorta) people driving a white car on a gray day, with snow on the ground, with no headlights on and said to myself "Man, I sure wish they had thier headlights on" I live on a 55mph zone, and getting out of the driveway can sometimes be interesting as there is a bit of a curve up the road... seeing headlights helps a lot when it comes to NOt pulling out in front of someone... Just my .02$ on the subject.. Have you seen the HID retrofit projectors that are going around right now for our cars? Hit up the extieror section and check'em out... very cool and PROPER(HID's in general should NOT be installed in a housing designed for an incandecent bulb, though the Vibe seems to do very well with this, my Subie though, a different story, I have HID's for it, but can't use them, to much light scatter)Bulb life should be on par or better than the avarage halogen to.. Don't quote me on that though..
Wolfman213
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Re: (Sublimewind)

Post by Wolfman213 »

Quote, originally posted by Sublimewind »Bulb life should be on par or better than the avarage halogen to.. Don't quote me on that though.. From my personal experience, the HID's in my old Grand Prix (now the girlfriends so I still see it all the time) are over a year old and still have the same intensity to the naked eye as when I first installed them. That goes for both the fogs and the headlights. Now compared to a set of SilverStar Ultras that i put in the Vibe about 3 months ago (only bc I got a steal on the price) I have already noticed a difference in the output. Now that's just my personal experience though.
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breezd
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Re: (Wolfman213)

Post by breezd »

Quote, originally posted by Wolfman213 »Now compared to a set of SilverStar Ultras that i put in the Vibe about 3 months ago (only bc I got a steal on the price) I have already noticed a difference in the output. Now that's just my personal experience though. You stated the problem yourself
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Wolfman213
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Post by Wolfman213 »

haha, exactly, but I got into the HID retrofit group buy, so I knew that I would be ok with the 3-4 month life span of the SS's
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keithvibe
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Re: (Wolfman213)

Post by keithvibe »

consider ss... are good for about 300bulb hours... and hid bulbs are rated for 3000hours.
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Sublimewind
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Re: (keithvibe)

Post by Sublimewind »

Quote, originally posted by keithvibe »consider ss... are good for about 300bulb hours... and hid bulbs are rated for 3000hours. eggzachery...
tribalman
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY (Calata)

Post by tribalman »

after once again wanting to disable my DRLs but keep the automatics, i was reading the manual i have for the matrix. it includes the electrical diagrams, same with the one posted in here. now the manual states that pin 11 on the drl module "11–Ground : Continuity with the parking brake lever pulled up". i'm not sure if it this actually works, but if you were to take the red wire at 11, cut it, and put it to ground this will disable the DRLs, but because the module is working the autolights will still work. the manual even states that if you put the brake up it will disable the DRL, or is it the DRL module? i am thinking that if the wire is always at ground you won't also have to deal with "Brake" light illuminated on the dash. am i correct in my exhausted, confused, assumptions?
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keithvibe
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY (tribalman)

Post by keithvibe »

try it... see what happens... just remember to disconnect your battery before cutting and rewiring anything.
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Celtic_Curse
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Post by Celtic_Curse »

I tried to find a way for this too. In the end I cut the red and white wire to disable my DRL. I use HIDs too, I just manually turn my parking lights on for daytime use as they are cheaper to replace and switch the lights on when its dark. I had to turn on my headlights manually before this car so it wasn't hard to re-learn the habit.
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tribalman
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Re: (Celtic_Curse)

Post by tribalman »

well i took out the center armrest, and to my dismay my idea does not work.there is a button that when the brake lever is lowered turns on the DRLs, and it also turns off the "Brake" light on the dash. i'll keep looking at the schematics to see if there is another work around.*edit* well, i guess if i wanted to i can ground the 11 wire and then cut the wire that powers the "Brake" light.
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Calata
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Post by Calata »

What's stopping you from doing what I posted in the first post ? The only thing stopping me personally at this moment is that I have a check engine light and it needs to go to the dealer for 2 engine related problems as it's still under warranty and I don't want ANY xxxx from the dealer at all stating that I may have violated my warranty or anything. Yea, I could fight it, but no hassle at all is easier.
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY (Calata)

Post by tribalman »

i'm working from that same manual as you have. from what i gather cutting 6 and connecting to 14 won't keep the autolights, at least for the front. from the manual, "3. Automatic Light Control Operation (USA) When the daytime running light is operating and the Automatic control sensor detects a decrease in the ambient light, the automatic light control operation starts. At the same time, daytime running light relay is activated, so current flows from the TAIL fuse to the TAIL relay (Coil side) to TERMINAL 14 of the daytime running light relay, and the HEAD MAIN fuse to the HEAD relay (Coil side) to TERMINAL 6 of the daytime running light relay, activating both the TAIL relay and the HEAD relay, so that the taillights and headlights light up."it seems that the DRL module receives current from terminal 6 when DRLs are on, or normal lights. i think the key to doing this is at the relays or inside the module. are there any detailed pics of the module?*edit* i'm probably not going to stop working on this until i: break the DRL module and have to get a new one, get so frustrated i wanna just beat the garbage out of the car, lose interest to something else.
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djkeev
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Post by djkeev »

I know this is going to sound like an old fart comment, but.....For most of the history of the modern automobile, one had to reach out with a hand and either turn on or turn off the headlights.Why is this a problem in 2009? Have we gotten that lazy and automated?Do I depend upon the automatic feature on my Vibe? Yes I do but that is the only car out of 4 that I drive with this feature. You are more likely to have a dead battery from a door not latching completely leaving the interior light on for a day or two.Once you are in the habit of manual light control it really isn't an issue at all.Dave
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Re: (djkeev)

Post by tribalman »

the first few cars i drove had the manual lights. i like the automatic lights cause i would sometimes forget to turn the lights on. mostly i want do this for the challenge. :D
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Calata
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Re: (tribalman)

Post by Calata »

Re-open my original attachment and Print page 1 and 2.You can read the DAYTIME RUNNING LIGHT OPERATION ( Page 1 ) yourself and trace the wires ( Page 2 ) terminal to terminal as stated.Then read the AUTOMATIC LIGHT CONTROL OPERATION (USA) and do the same. You will wind up with what looks like in the attachment below.When done, you can better understand why making the cut and jumper wire at the DRL module makes sense. ( You will be having pin 14 of the DRL send ground to the wire on pin 14 ( which turns on all the lights at night ) and pin 6 ( which turns on the headlights also at night ).** but the wire on pin 6 must first be cut as stated in my original attachment page 3 **

449689=13916-VibeLightdiagramversion2.JPG
tribalman
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY (Calata)

Post by tribalman »

i think i see what you mean now. i was not understanding it completely. i'm trying to follow the correct flow of electrons and see what happens. the guide says that the current flows from the fuses on down, but that's not the actual way it works. also, most of the time i'm reading this has been after work at ~5am. the HEAD and TAIL relays are just a simple coil and switch. when the current goes over the coil it turns into a magnet thereby pulling the switch on the other side of the relay closed. if the signal is sent for normal lamp operation at night is send across pin 14 to the tail relay turning on the tail lamps. the only issue i can see with the head lamps now running in parallel with the tail lamps there won't be enough power to activate the coil fully and the head lamp.oh well, i'm just going to go for it. i have pictures of the DRL module out, but i'm on linux currently and my phone won't sync with it. they will be some time later. btw, during my searching i saw 2 pin-outs of the DRL module, but i can't find them again. one of them have pins numbered as A, B, 1-18. and the other one has the pins numbered at 1-20. the 2nd pinout is the correct one. on the DRL module the pins are numbered at 1-20.*Edit* working on it currently. so far i find the easiest way to do this is to remove the DRL module and do the wiring inside there. it's just too hard to work on the wiring outside. to little room to move around and see what you are doing. my mistake is when i was doing this i cut a connection at the wrong end and now i need to fix it.
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Calata
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY (tribalman)

Post by Calata »

My first attachment has pins 1-20 in page 4.As for the actual working of it, the +!2V is always at the coil of the HEAD and TAIL relays, the DRL module just completes a ground path.As a temporary way to test if I am correct, if you have pin extraction tools, I suggest you just extract pin # 6 from the DRL connector. The head lights should NOT come on in the day. Then place a rag over the light sensor to trick the DRL into thinking that it's night time so that it turns on the tail lights. When those lights are on, I would simply ground the extracted wire from pin 6 to chassis ground. If that works......... remove the wire from chassis ground.Then remove the rag to make the DRL see day light again and turn off the tail lights. If all works as predicted, cut and permanently jumper the wire as per page 3 of my original attachment. As for the current draw, have no fear. The relay coils only draw about .2 amps, barely nothing. To learn more about relays, see http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm
Calata
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Re: (djkeev)

Post by Calata »

Quote, originally posted by djkeev »I know this is going to sound like an old fart comment, but.....For most of the history of the modern automobile, one had to reach out with a hand and either turn on or turn off the headlights.Why is this a problem in 2009? Have we gotten that lazy and automated?Do I depend upon the automatic feature on my Vibe? Yes I do but that is the only car out of 4 that I drive with this feature. You are more likely to have a dead battery from a door not latching completely leaving the interior light on for a day or two.Once you are in the habit of manual light control it really isn't an issue at all.DaveDave, I personally want this mod so that my wife could stop killing batteries and using the excuse " I forgot to turn the lights off, can you come and help me ?" I figure if she doesn't touch the switch in the first place, then there's no reason for the lights to kill the battery when the engine is shut off ( not counting an electrical problem on the car ).
djkeev
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Re: (Calata)

Post by djkeev »

Quote, originally posted by Calata »Dave, I personally want this mod so that my wife could stop killing batteries and using the excuse " I forgot to turn the lights off, can you come and help me ?" I figure if she doesn't touch the switch in the first place, then there's no reason for the lights to kill the battery when the engine is shut off ( not counting an electrical problem on the car ). I use a 2002 Dodge Caravan at work. While this is not an automatic headlight on system it does have a timer headlight off system. If you leave the lights on as you get out the bell will sound. If you ignore it and go in the house, in a few minutes the lights shut off provided the key is off and the drivers door has been closed.I don't know its wiring but maybe this relay can be retro fit somehow?Dave
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tribalman
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Re: (djkeev)

Post by tribalman »

well i am an idiot. at first i was inside the module and cut the connection for 6. i then realized i was connecting the wrong part of 6 to wire 14. i couldn't fix it because the connector was removed at the plug. *facepalm*. i then decided to just try cutting the wire 6 and temporarilly connecting it to 14. well i cut wire 15. i can't really get under there well enough to reconnect the wire so i'm trying to remove the darn dashboard and get in there better. i just can't remove the a-pillars. how do you do it?i'm running out of daylight and need my car tomorrow. yup. i am an idiot.btw i'm in the chat room. please join and give me tips.*edit* alright, got the a-pillar off a while ago. started fixing wires and soldering. made more mistakes, fixed them. current status, working lamps under manual control. if i drop the parking brake the "brake" brake light goes off but the DRLs do not come on! just gotta get the whole thing back together and see what happens once i have the light sensor back in place.
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Calata
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Post by Calata »

I left you a message in the chat room for removing the A pillar. Re-looking at the diagram, cutting pin 15 should still allow you manual control of the lights. Also, can you splice in a 6" or longer wire extension to help with reconnecting the wire ?
tribalman
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Re: (Calata)

Post by tribalman »

well, i am now the only person with a vibe in the world with no DRL and still have automatic lights!thank you Calata!! great idea you had! you are my nomination for Member of the Year! at the very least the current month! all honors for this mod go to Calata!only comment i have so far is that i'm not fully done putting the dashboard back together, basically just put it in place so i could use the sensor, but when i turn on the car with no light on the sensor the lights go on as they should. if i apply a very bright light they don't dim. i dunno. i have tried in the past with bright lights or covering the sensor to get the lights to turn on and off in simulation of day/night and it doesn't work, but as i would be driving at dusk the lights would change based on conditions. maybe there is some other sensor or condition to get the lights to change. current time is ~8pm and it's dark. if the car is off and light applied, no DRL. if there is no light and the car is started the lights go on!
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Calata
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Post by Calata »

Congratulations !!!!. You're lights will not dim. They will either be full on at night or full off. Manual switch control is not affected. Tricking the sensor for Day / Night can only be done properly with a dark colored rag. Once all the lights come on, even if you were to apply daylight conditions to the sensor, the lights will not go off right away. There's a delay built in for 1 minute ( I believe it's 1 minute, haven't counted ). This was originally designed to avoid flashing lights if one was to drive at dawn on a street with tall trees.
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Re: (Calata)

Post by tribalman »

ah maybe that's it, i don't wait long enough. i get impatient. maybe it's because i've always read it's a few seconds. but for now i'm going out driving just to see if there are any other problems from my mistakes. *edit*just went out for gas and tried again with the autolights and a flashlight. yup, that works too. i was sitting in my driveway with the lights on, flashlight on the sensor, when about 30 seconds later, boop. no lights. i am loving this! easy mod if you are ok with cutting wires, soldering, and not an idiot like myself. i think that instead of cutting wires outside of the module, do it inside the module.
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Calata
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Post by Calata »

Please update status after a few days. Also, the dashboard lights on indication still works normal, as does the intensity of your gauge lights, correct ?
tribalman
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Re: (Calata)

Post by tribalman »

during the day the dash is fully illuminated as it should be, everything is working as should be, except the DRL because they are disabled. at night the autosensor kicks in and turns on the headlamps, tail lights, and side lights. the dashboard and center console also dim because i have the variable resistor on the side turned down a bit. i have an aftermarket radio installed so that does not dim anyways. the dashboard light that indicates when the lights are on also illuminates. every thing is perfect so far!once again you are brilliant Calata for thinking of this!
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keithvibe
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Re: (tribalman)

Post by keithvibe »

in all how long did it take you to cut the wire soder in a new piece and then wire it in line with the tail lights. Don't forget to post lot and lots of photos.. A lot of member won't know how to follow the diagrams in the pdf posted simply because they are more visual people
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Calata
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Post by Calata »

Thanks Tribalman. Thanks for believing in me too, lol.Kiethvibe, depending on working room in there ( tribalman says it's tight ) I personally think it could be done in 15 minutes. Maybe 2 minutes if visual pictures are shown and a vampire tap is used to attach the pin 6 wire to the pin 14 wire once 6 is cut.I myself am also intested in seeing what the inside of the DRL module looks like.
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (Calata)

Post by tribalman »

i don't have many photos. i do have the ones off my phone of the DRL module out of the casing. when i took the pictures i was still thinking of doing the mod when i figured out how to do it. i figured with my method i can then do the mod and take photos. sadly i then started to cut the wrong wires. at that point i realized what i needed to do to fix the mistakes and it involved taking apart the dashboard. because i don't have my module mounted in the proper way i can't take photos of its current position and i don't want to risk taking apart the dashboard again, and what the pictures would show is the more complex method of the mod.i'm currently working on the writeup of the easy method. if no mistakes are made like i did the mod will only take 10-30 minutes. in order to help the writeup can someone take a photo from under the dashboard by the brake pedal looking upward? i can use that photo to enhance the writeup. pics are now up. they were taken by my camera phone up close to try and get detail of the board. sadly the camera phone can't deal with micro photos.
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keithvibe
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (tribalman)

Post by keithvibe »

will these do??
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keithvibe
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Re:

Post by keithvibe »

You wouldn't happen to have HID's? I'm wondering how it would work with those.
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (keithvibe)

Post by tribalman »

The images will work. Thank you keithvibe. Judging from the images you did one of the other mods, am i correct? Which one did you do? Depending on which you did you might have more work to do.And I also do not have HIDs. I only have the factory default headlamps. Would somebody with HIDs like to perform the mod? Or are you waiting for a writeup? Still working on it, possibly out in 2 days.
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keithvibe
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (tribalman)

Post by keithvibe »

yes I have Hid projectors. I simply cut pin 12.I would love to try it Maybe at my BBQ/meet for others to enjoy the auto lights.That is in three weeks.The more detailed the better. So when I am explaining it I have photos to show.Deff keep me updated...
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Calata
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Post by Calata »

In simple terms, you unplug the module ( for safety, and car is OFF ) so that you have more freedom to manipulate the connector and wires to a more comfortable position for the 2 steps below.You cut the wire at pin 6 ( the Red wire with a yellow stripe ) about 1" from the end of the connector. You can insulate the 1" wire with tape or heat shrink tubing if you wish for extra protection as this wire will have a ground, aka -12V, on it at all times when the car is running.You use a vampire tap to attach the wire you just cut ** Not the 1" section, but the rest of the wire that goes into the harness ** to the wire at pin 14 ( Green wire with a black stripe )This is the easiest way possible that I can think of. You could alternately solder the 2 wires together if you wish ( something I personally would do ). Plug the module back in and enjoy the new mod.Picture of a vampire tap below. http://www.amazon.com/Pico-155...=1-28
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Re: (Calata)

Post by tribalman »

that works too, but i found that it is hard to get in there and perform the mod. if you wanted to cut wires and solder them together the dashboard upper needs to be removed. with how i'm doing the writeup you just unplug the drl module, take it out of the cover, cut pin 6 lead, and then solder a wire from 6 to the under side of 14. this makes it very easy if you decide to go back to stock. all you need to do is remove the added wire and reconnect pin 6. i think this is the easiest method. i was able to fit a wire on the underside of the board. i'd write more but as it is i'm currently running late for work. At 10pm CDT i'll try and release an initial version to Calata and keithvibe. if anybody else would like this version please contact me.
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keithvibe
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Re: (tribalman)

Post by keithvibe »

Tribalman.Got your email. Let me know when you get the photos attached so we can convert your file in to a pdf.
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Re:

Post by keithvibe »

how is it working for you still? I have several projectors to install in the next two weeks and if I can do this for them it would be wonderful.I hope to try this mod on my own car in the next week or so
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tribalman
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Re: Re: (keithvibe)

Post by tribalman »

everything works perfectly fine. still no DRL but at night the lights kick in like normal. i've actually annoyed one of my friends with this mod. every vibe i see i point out to him and go, "guess what that vibe has? Daytime running lights. ha ha i don't have them."i'm curious how it works with the HIDs.i'm actually thinking of putting in a new addition. a switch either before or after the splice so if i choose i can have the lights completely off at night. before the splice to have all lights off, and after the splice to just have the headlamps off.
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BadBrew
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Re: Re: (tribalman)

Post by BadBrew »

Tried it today with my brand new HID projectors and it works perfect!!!
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tribalman
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Re: Re: (BadBrew)

Post by tribalman »

Quote, originally posted by BadBrew »Tried it today with my brand new HID projectors and it works perfect!!! darn. i'm now no longer the only vibe with this mod. xDglad to hear! i've been wondering it the lights are on at full or if they are at 70%. i think mine might be dimming then. i love rolling around town and pointing out to all my friends in the car how i don't have DRL but other cars do. welcome to the club! any suggestions from your experiences?
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BadBrew
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (Calata)

Post by BadBrew »

Is it me or when you turn the lever one notch for the parking lights, the headlights also go on with this mod?I usually use the parking lights in bad weather condition (like today). My headlights went on but the fogs stayed off.If I do remember, DRLs stayed DRLs on the parking light switch...is it DRL power going thru the ballasts or normal power??
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Calata
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (BadBrew)

Post by Calata »

They do. Basically what you did is the trigger that controls the parking lights also put on the head lights. In bad weather, if you use the wipers, don't the parking lights come on automatically, even if it's day light ?Please re-read the first post in this thread for the intention of this mod. And there is no low voltage for DRL and high voltage for normal lights. If you follow the circuit, the DRL module controls 2 relays that allow power directly from the main fuse block on/off.
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (BadBrew)

Post by tribalman »

sadly, i'm away from my car until monday, i'll check then. from what i recall the car does not automatically turn on any lights if you turn on the wipers. the lights are based on manual control or the ambient light only.as for the parking lights, i would assume the lights would turn on with the tail lights. but i'll check when i get back home.
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (Calata)

Post by BadBrew »

Quote, originally posted by Calata »They do. Basically what you did is the trigger that controls the parking lights also put on the head lights. In bad weather, if you use the wipers, don't the parking lights come on automatically, even if it's day light ?No they don't, it's a light sensor not a rain sensor...Please re-read the first post in this thread for the intention of this mod. I was pretty aware of the intentions of this mod, and this mod is exactly why I finally switched to HIDsAnd there is no low voltage for DRL and high voltage for normal lights. If you follow the circuit, the DRL module controls 2 relays that allow power directly from the main fuse block on/off.I' pretty sure I've seen a difference between DRLs and low beams when a was using halogen lights, and that's why most HID manufacturers advise people to disable DRLs because it could burn the ballasts trying to compensate the lack of energy (and do some stroboscopic lighting...)
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (BadBrew)

Post by BadBrew »

EDIT: Post has exploded due to brain malnutrition
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (BadBrew)

Post by tribalman »

sorry. i kind of forgot to post the write up. i'm actually working with bluecrush on a new level of this mod, FOG LIGHTS! currently i have the fog lights as DRL but it is controlled by the switch on the steering wheel column. you can choose to have the fogs on or off during the day, and the same switch controls when the head lights are on. it's pretty cool! writeup i promise will be out within a few days as i compile the new instructions with pictures.
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (tribalman)

Post by BadBrew »

hooo hooo hooo!!!!Me wantee!!!! Me tryee this firstee!!!!!
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (BadBrew)

Post by tribalman »

Quote, originally posted by BadBrew »Me wantee!!!! Me tryee this firstee!!!!!too late. xDalready did it. it's pretty cool. but badbrew, since you are already familiar with the 1st mod, this one is easy. all you need to do is connect pin 4 to the other end of pin 6. i just soldered a wire on the underside of the PCB between the 2.
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Re: Disable DRL, but KEEP Automatic Lights - 03-08 ONLY *** Confirmed Operational *** (tribalman)

Post by BlueCrush »

I'm thoroughly confused now. I will need pics to do this mod. Hopefully, they'll be posted soon...
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