'09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

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350kVibe
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:01 am
Location: Eastern North Dakota

'09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

Post by 350kVibe »

FIRST - I pre-apologize for the narrative. If you only want the basics, just skip to the bold part. I don't know much about vehicles as a typical girl, I'm going to give all the details cuz I don't know what bits are really necessary to know.

Note: My Vibe has passed 372k miles. The repair list is growing faster than my bank account, but I'm determined to get that 400k girl scout badge. XD

RELATIVE HISTORY:
All new brake pads done 9 months ago, along with front driver's side caliper for good measure. Transmission fluid change (drain and fill, NOT a flush) 3 months ago. And I just finally replaced my transmission sensors to get rid of the nasty P0793 code that gave me hell for 2 months. - not exactly relevant but I'm proud of my girly self for actually fixing something without having to pay some patronizing grease monkey. 8-)

I've been told by several mechanics that I'm a hypochondriac when it comes to my vibe due to the inconvenient phenomenon that occurs when you finally decide you need a professional's input.. you know.. suddenly everything seems to run just fine.

I've come to understand that this actually means "something is about to break, but prevention isn't as expensive or convenient as replacement so call back when you need a tow truck" -_-

THE ISSUE TODAY:
Today I realized my rear passenger side (disc)brake is not engaging at all and was told after a 10 minute "diagnostic cruise" that I can just keep driving it because I have 3 other functional brakes and it doesn't seem to be affecting performance. Oddly enough.. yes, it does seem to run just fine when you're only driving for 10 minutes.


However, I'm pretty sure that the lack of fireworks doesn't make this a complete non-issue. What could cause a single caliper to refuse to play red light green light with the rest of them? I've had them all inspected several times this year by at least 4 different mechanics that seemed to all think I'm imagining things, but then I had the front one lock up (replaced) and now the complete lack of wear or heat on that rear rotor is undeniable.

Here's an odd combo of additional details that actually does make me question my sanity and why I continue to put money into this car. Also, I'm not sure if these are related or if they are just my kind of unlucky coincidence.

SOUNDS: Last night after the 2 hour drive home, I started hearing a rhythmic humming sound from the rear, definitely in sync with the rotation of the tires - kind of like a bad wheel bearing, maybe? I couldn't tell which side it might be coming from because although it is loud inside the car, it can't compete with all the other road noise when I try to listen out my windows. It was gone this morning, but came back again tonight after I'd been driving for a couple hours on the highway and then entered the stop-go-turn traffic in town. I checked all around the wheels and under the car and found nothing except that lazy caliper... Nothing within reach on any wheel seemed to be excessively heated.

SMELLS: Coinciding with the strange sound there was a terrible frightening smell of burning metal. Like... Left an empty pot on a hot burner and welded it to my stove smell. (thanks little brother) The first time I noticed it yesterday I didn't even realize it was my car because I couldn't really smell it inside, and figured it was something at the gas station. Then the smell hit me in the parking lot at home where I ditched my car until morning. I didn't sense the sound or smell all day but mentioned it to the local mechanic as he proceeded to tell me that my rear brake wasn't working (duh, that's why I'm here), laugh at my concerns about what the smell, sound and free riding brake could mean in terms of safety, and then tell me to stop worrying about such little things.

So, I picked up a high horse at the local TSC, said screw that guy, and hopped on Google intent on showing him up with my very limited A1 Auto granted YouTube education. But, you might've guessed, I found nothing to help with the opposite of a sticking caliper. When the noise/smell started up again this evening, I tried to "catch the culprit in the act" by whipping into a parking lot, jumping out and wiggling my freshly manicured fingers through each wheel, feeling every bit of metal around the brakes, wheels and random suspension parts almost hoping something would burn me.. but again, nothing *'within reach'* seemed overheated in the least.

I'm pretty well defeated at this point. It's that time of year, I guess, that the mechanics are too busy to bother with what might potentially be a cheap fix, but if possible I'd like to solve these issues while repairs are still an option and I greatly appreciate any assistance this knowledgeable community has to offer. If you read this whole thing, I sincerely thank you for listening to my plight.

So... In short:
What's up with that brake?
Do I dare keep driving on the highway.. or at all?
Any idea what that smell or intermittent sound might be?
Are those things possibly related? If not.. how should I prioritize them?
2009 Vibe GT
zbyers
Posts: 1767
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Re: '09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

Post by zbyers »

An easy way to determine if the piston is stuck OUT, thus causing the brakes to constantly be engaged... Go for a short drive. 10-15min usually does it. Then get out and feel each tire. If the one is significantly hotter (you'll burn your hand hot!) that caliper is likely sticking and needs replaced.

When you did the brakes 9 months ago, were the caliper pistons properly retracted? They screw in with a weird tool thing vs. just being able to compress it w/ a big pair of channel locks.

If the caliper itself is non-op, have you tried bleeding it to ensure the piston is functioning properly, and that there is no air in the lines. If not, I would start there.

The sound/smell you mentioned likely is the caliper. Using the aforementioned shade tree mechanic method to diagnose the caliper, you should be able to determine if it is indeed that.

Based on what you've provided though, the caliper itself is indeed sticking and would need replaced. The rear pads/rotors may also need replacement to if it has toasted those.

It's not recommended to continue driving with only 3/4 functioning properly.
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andrewclaus
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Re: '09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

Post by andrewclaus »

I'll reiterate that all four operating brakes are critical, not just for stopping fast but for stopping in a straight line, with all four wheels on the ground and without leaving the road. Pay no more attention to whomever told you that three are enough. It may feel okay with normal stops on dry pavement, but an emergency stop in poor conditions may not be okay. The ABS won't work right, for instance. Stopping in reverse may be affected more by a bad rear brake.

If the disc dust covers are intact, you might not be touching the right thing. A valuable tool for finding hotpots is a non-contact IR thermometer gun. I got mine for under $20 from eBay. I use it for HVAC work and in the kitchen too.
Bookworm
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Re: '09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

Post by Bookworm »

Nothing really to add to the above. Humming could be a balance issue, however.

Where are you located? There might be someone around from here or Facebook that can assist.

BW
tpollauf
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Re: '09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

Post by tpollauf »

Nice LONG post and read every bit of it. Do you have a jack to where you can jack up the rear end IN THE CENTER to where both rear wheels are off the ground together? If so do it, then hand spin each one and check for resistance. If they are both free and spin easily, then do it again and have someone hit the brakes at varying pressures to see actual braking. Then re-spin to see if braking was released. Repeat and retest several times.

Finally, unless you're in a witness protection program, UPDATE YOUR PROFILE so we have an idea where your from and then it's possible one of us could personally help you out OR direct you to a fair/reputable shop in your area for further follow-up. You have a rare unique problem that has the attention of all of us here and we want to help you solve this problem. ;)
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350kVibe
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Dec 31, 2018 1:01 am
Location: Eastern North Dakota

Re: '09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

Post by 350kVibe »

Thank you each for the replies. Zbyers - I agree with you, a sticking caliper could indeed be easy to diagnose and as I mentioned, I've dealt with that particular issue already once this year. My current issue, as stated, is the opposite of a sticking caliper - it is not engaging at all. As far as checking for overheated brakes goes.. the brake that doesn't engage stays cold - nothing more to check there. As for the other 3, all I can say is that I'll be needing new pads in the rear because obviously the driver's side is wearing more than the other right now. If I try a thermal cam, it's bound to show that the rear driver's side brake is warmer than normal because it's doing twice the work. I will still look into borrowing one somewhere though if you think I'm underestimating its usefulness. For the record, I have full confidence in the shop that did my brakes last spring and I'm sure that the only person that's potentially done them harm was the nut behind the wheel driving through a blizzard or two recently while "on the road" was more of a state of mind than the actual position of the wheels. XD

For the record, Tpollauf, I appreciate the heck outta you for giving your attention and time to my "LONG post". Thank you! I've added my location to my profile (Fargo area, North Dakota) but I'm not sure what else might be relevant as you made it seem like I had a ton of info missing. O.o

Unfortunately, I do not have access to a lift, jack or even a willing helper right now. Two weeks ago (before these issues came about) I had it on a lift, though. At that time, I had no rear wheel wiggle or wobble and if there was any resistance to spinning, it was mild and silent. Granted, there was no one in the car to hit the brake then, but I'm not sure what that would accomplish particularly since it only seems to act up after lots of driving and if the brakes are the cause, then they'd be too cool to replicate the conditions by the time I got the rear end off the ground. Does that make sense? However, I can pump the brakes, put it in drive and without touching the gas pedal it seems able to move forward, not like you'd expect if a break was sticking. I'll try this again after another long drive tomorrow when it starts making that sound again.. maybe it will act differently. That's all I can think of for the moment.

Anywho, thanks again for taking an interest especially in such nonspecific symptoms as sounds/smells. I've gathered that no one thinks that a disengaged brake could relate to those occurrences so they must in fact be an indication of yet another problem that coincidentally showed up at the same time. Ugg. That said.. Does anyone have a theory on the issue I can actually see and possibly get to? (The dead brake)
2009 Vibe GT
Bookworm
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Re: '09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

Post by Bookworm »

It could still be a stuck caliper. The piston could be slightly cockeyed, which would keep the hydraulic pressure from moving the pads themselves. On a drum brake, it's the same thing- there's a tiny double ended piston, which can get stuck.

On a disc brake, a C-clamp is one way to try to straighten things out. Pull the caliper loose, put the clamp on the caliper so that the threaded section is -inside- the cylinder piston, and squeeze it slightly. if it's cockeyed, you'll probably hear a 'pop'. It shouldn't hurt anything if it's not. (this is how I compress mine when I change brake pads)
zbyers
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Re: '09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

Post by zbyers »

Bookworm wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:23 am On a disc brake, a C-clamp is one way to try to straighten things out. Pull the caliper loose, put the clamp on the caliper so that the threaded section is -inside- the cylinder piston, and squeeze it slightly. if it's cockeyed, you'll probably hear a 'pop'. It shouldn't hurt anything if it's not. (this is how I compress mine when I change brake pads)
This works if it's a push in caliper. the 2nd gen have the twist in calipers.
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Bookworm
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Re: '09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

Post by Bookworm »

zbyers wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:59 am
Bookworm wrote: Thu Dec 12, 2019 9:23 am On a disc brake, a C-clamp is one way to try to straighten things out. Pull the caliper loose, put the clamp on the caliper so that the threaded section is -inside- the cylinder piston, and squeeze it slightly. if it's cockeyed, you'll probably hear a 'pop'. It shouldn't hurt anything if it's not. (this is how I compress mine when I change brake pads)
This works if it's a push in caliper. the 2nd gen have the twist in calipers.
Ew. Yuck. Still, I'd try manually moving the piston. With it out, you can even hit the brakes and see if the piston moves.
jolt
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Re: '09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

Post by jolt »

zbyers is right. The easiest way to re-track the rear caliper on a '09 Vibe is to use the proper tool that screws the piston in. The tool can be bought on ebay for around $30.00 or you may find one to use at some auto parts stores as a rental. There are cheaper tools to do this but the ~$30 tool is the easiest way to get it done.

To the OP's problem of the rear brake not applying, the first thing you need to do troubleshoot the problem by finding what part of the system is not working with the brakes. I would jack the rear wheel up and try spinning the wheel while a helper applies the brakes. Does the wheel brake work? If not, remove the rear tire. Have helper push brake pedal down and hold the pedal down. While pedal is being held down, open the brake bleeder on the bad wheel. Brake fluid should shoot out of the bleeder and the brake pedal should go to the floor as the helper is pressing on it. The helper needs to hold the pedal all the way down while you close the brake bleeder. Be sure to close the brake bleeder before the helper lets up on the brake pedal or you will pull air into the brake hydraulic system and loose your brakes. This is one way to bleed your brakes and flush your brake fluid.

What this will tell you about you issue is if the fluid comes out and the brake pedal goes to the floor is that the system up to that point is working properly. If you do not get brake fluid to squirt out of the bleeder and the pedal does not go to the floor, you have a problem forward of this point. Forward of that point would be the brake line, the brake hose, and the anti-lock brake controller. One of these things is not letting hydraulic pressure get to the caliper and apply the brakes.

If fluid does come out of the bleeder then something is wrong with the caliper. Piston could be stuck into the caliper. If the piston was not retracted properly when the new brakes were installed, say by crushing it with a "C" clamp and damaging the threads for the emergency brake in the piston, the piston can not move out to take up the play as the pads wear down and you would have no brakes at that wheel. The slide pins in the caliper could be seized and the caliper can not pinch the rotor with full force. The caliper piston seals could have been damaged when retracting the piston as you have to rotate or turn the pistons to retract them. This can cause the seals to tear and let water and dirt into the caliper and piston causing them to seize up. All of these things all have to do with the caliper. Replace the caliper and bleed the air from the brake system as described above. Rebuilt calipers can be hard to find for the Vibe and you have to be careful to get the proper one for your car. The GT Vibe takes a different caliper then the 1.8L std Vibe, which is also different then the 2.4L std Vibe. So you have three different calipers. You also have a left and right caliper as the rear park brake has left and right hand threads in the piston to apply the parking brakes.
350kVibe
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Re: '09 GT 2wd 2.4 Rear Pass Side Brake Not Engaging

Post by 350kVibe »

I never did get this fixed, but once the weather was back in the positive double digits, the caliper started doing its job again so I nearly forgot about it. Now, in searching for some info on a different issue, I found that there was a recall on my car, shortly after its release in 2009, due to the brake lines having a tendency to freeze. I can only guess that this was the issue last December, since I probably let it sit in negative 20+ degrees for a few days while I was rolled up in blankets drinking hot chocolate. I can't find out for sure unless it happens again, but there you have it. Brakes are working fine now and I all I really did was stay home as much as possible and wait for spring. XD
2009 Vibe GT
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