Cold start rattle noise

1.8-liter VVTL-i (2ZZ-GE) and VVT-i (1ZZ-FE) engine, transmission, exhaust, intake, and performance tuning discussions
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cickos
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 8:49 am

Cold start rattle noise

Post by cickos »

A rattle noise started months ago. Vibe base 2010, 230 ooo km. Changed the starter didn't solve the problem. It is something else, most likely the VVT gear.
it is happening in the morning or after couple hours being of when oil drain back from the VVT mechanism. Can someone confirm, VVT cam shaft gear assembly replacement solve the noise.
Maybe something else, please take a part in discussion since this topic never get concreted.
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joatmon
Posts: 10018
Joined: Fri Mar 21, 2003 5:19 am
Location: SMC MD

Re: Cold start rattle noise

Post by joatmon »

Maybe the first thing I would try is to take off the serpentine belt. Even if it doesn't eliminate the noise, that test will rule out all of the belt driven things from being possible causes. Its a relatively easy and free thing to try. Just be sure to not run the engine long without the belt, you need the water pump or you'd overheat , but a minute running without it from a cold start will be fine.
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Caretaker

Re: Cold start rattle noise

Post by Caretaker »

cickos, regarding your question, no, replacing the timing gear actuator did absolutely nothing for my Vibe. GM replaced my timing gear actuator per the TSB campaign even when I told them it was the starter. Their "fix" was at their cost and was totally in vein, unless there was some re-engineered part they put in, different from my OEM actuator. I ended up getting a re-manufactured Denso starter put in and it solved my noise problem, up until now that is. Some 7 years since the second starter was put in, my car is now grinding on startup about once a month even though I'm in a 100% warm climate.

Can you tell us how long ago you had your replacement starter put in and whether it was a Denso model? It would help to know if the noise returned immediately after the (new) starter install or a few years later.
cickos
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 8:49 am

Re: Cold start rattle noise

Post by cickos »

I replaced Denso starter with some aftermarket model. The grinding noise remain the same. This happens only at the first cold start. if I repent it again many times, this is not happening. This is telling me it is something with he oil related?
Caretaker, maybe your noise was different? in my case it is pretty loud, it last less then a second, like very frequent metal to metal rattle.
Caretaker

Re: Cold start rattle noise

Post by Caretaker »

VVTi timing gear actuator and bendix gear failure inside the Denso starters sound very similar. Please go to youtube and listen to the many, many videos created on Corollas, Vibes, Matrix, Scions, regarding the noise. To my ear, the actuator noise is a little lower in pitch and lasts twice as long as the starter noise (thus, 2-3 seconds). The failing starter noise, which I have had now on two different starters, does indeed last just a second once ignition is initiated. While I am no where near as smart as a mechanic, the noise is a high pitch grinding (metal on metal) and I believe is a result of something (perhaps the often reported Bendix gear) not disengaging once ignition is initiated. Again, how long ago did you put in the second starter?
The once in awhile grinding of the starter is not going to do you any harm. I left my OEM in for well over a year until the following cold weather set back in. Once it started happening daily, I replaced it. For a year, it was only doing it 2-3 times a week.
Hopefully someone smart on these boards can tell you if there is any harm in ignoring the grinding noise should it actually be the VVTi timing gear actuator
cickos
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon May 02, 2016 8:49 am

Re: Cold start rattle noise

Post by cickos »

Caretaker thanks for being of help. This is how my Vibe sounding:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSafiPtq_OI
I just replaces the starter a couple days ago. Looking at youtube, you can be sure what fix really helped.
If the second+ start is always without a noise, it is telling me that it has something with oil being pumped to the effected place eliminates the rattle.
Cam shaft vvt gear is to me the most suspected, however it is not an easy do it self repair.
Caretaker

Re: Cold start rattle noise

Post by Caretaker »

Other than a virtual warm shoulder and a hug, I'm not helping much at all. I can say that you were smart to start with the simple (starter) and work towards the difficult. All these "Corolla cars" are plagued by these same issues (starter and VVTi timing gear actuator). If your re-manufactured starter is that new, we certainly can rule that out. It would be a wild stroke of bad luck if the starter you put in was also bad. Listening to your audio, I am hearing a lower pitch than the high pitch metal scratching noise of a bad bendix gear in a starter. Given this is a know problem, I would guess that it is the actuator. Nevertheless, let's wait for a smart person on here to chime in to let you know if there is any real harm to driving the car if the actuator is failing. I am not aware of any imminent danger, but want someone on these boards to give you the right answer. I'm betting there is a ton of articles/chat online that would answer the question given the bazillions of "Corolla cars" on the road.
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