Change it or Leave it In? Lucas? (trans)

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Vulcan
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:53 pm

Change it or Leave it In? Lucas? (trans)

Post by Vulcan »

2006 AWD with now 196k. It runs and shifts just fine. I checked the fluid and its topped up, condition is grey, and coming from a hot engine, to me it smells like transmission fluid mixed with dirty laundry and mushrooms. I don't detect any burning smell.

So, I think I'm in a window here where it's safe to do a drain and fill?

But, I'm aware of reputable mechanic warnings about changing transmission fluid on high mileage cars. This will sometimes result in a car that was shifting fine with a worn transmission and grungy fluid, to then start slipping with new fluid in there.

For what I paid, I'll break even on this car next spring. But obviously it would be good to keep it as long as possible.

Transmission fluid in older cars seems to be the one exceptional case where thinking twice about a fluid change makes sense, what say you?

Are any of the forum veterans aware of a case of this happening to a Toyota/Vibe owner with this specific transmission - no issues, high mileage , fluid change and then slippage?

I'm thinking I'm going to go for it. I think our Toyota spec transmissions are pretty strong?
2006 AWD, 207k
Caretaker

Re: Change it or Leave it In? Lucas? (trans)

Post by Caretaker »

Vulcan wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:29 am So, I think I'm in a window here where it's safe to do a drain and fill?
But, I'm aware of reputable mechanic warnings about changing transmission fluid on high mileage cars. This will sometimes result in a car that was shifting fine with a worn transmission and grungy fluid, to then start slipping with new fluid in there.
I say that the window is ALWAYS open for a drain and fill, no matter if it was last done 20,000 miles ago or 200,000 miles ago. That mechanic is full of crap. If you power flush out a transmission to get all of the fluid out to include the majority of what sits atop the housing, you are always at risk of dislodging some burned on "varnish" which can get into the gears and ruin a transmission. But simple draining???? No way. It can only be beneficial to get fresh fluid in and provide the maximum heat protection and part lubrication that is possible.
Vulcan
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:53 pm

Re: Change it or Leave it In? Lucas? (trans)

Post by Vulcan »

Caretaker wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:35 am
Vulcan wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:29 am So, I think I'm in a window here where it's safe to do a drain and fill?
But, I'm aware of reputable mechanic warnings about changing transmission fluid on high mileage cars. This will sometimes result in a car that was shifting fine with a worn transmission and grungy fluid, to then start slipping with new fluid in there.
I say that the window is ALWAYS open for a drain and fill, no matter if it was last done 20,000 miles ago or 200,000 miles ago. That mechanic is full of crap. If you power flush out a transmission to get all of the fluid out to include the majority of what sits atop the housing, you are always at risk of dislodging some burned on "varnish" which can get into the gears and ruin a transmission. But simple draining???? No way. It can only be beneficial to get fresh fluid in and provide the maximum heat protection and part lubrication that is possible.
Thanks, Caretaker. I don't think Scotty Kilmer's full of crap, but the % of him witnessing such cases is going to skew heavily towards having problems, and can't include the vast numbers of those that don't.
Like another example is he will trash the Dodge Caravans, because he's seen a lot of them with major problems. But that does not fix for market %, it's just what a mechanic is seeing come in. I've seen taxi Caravans with over 300k and been involved with fleets of them, they're not bad vans at all. We never had a transmission go out on one with over 20 vans, most of them higher mileage and scantily maintained. But with a car like a Caravan that is very successful in numbers, we will naturally see a lot more failures in aggregate.

I don't doubt the stories about transmission fluid change--> slippage, but there's some dogs not barking, like which transmissions, and the specific condition / level of fluid.

Thanks, its a nice afternoon to do this little job ~
2006 AWD, 207k
andrewclaus
Posts: 482
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 6:38 pm
Location: Golden, CO

Re: Change it or Leave it In? Lucas? (trans)

Post by andrewclaus »

I got mine with 150K miles and ten years on the original fluid. I drained and changed the filter, added about three quarts. There are about eight quarts in there, so a few months later I drained and filled again, another three quarts. Now it's mostly red. That was preventive, no drivability problems

These cars have a transmission drain plug so removing the cover and changing the filter and gasket are simple. The job cost just over $30 with fluid.
Caretaker

Re: Change it or Leave it In? Lucas? (trans)

Post by Caretaker »

Vulcan wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:10 am We never had a transmission go out on one with over 20 vans, most of them higher mileage and scantily maintained. But with a car like a Caravan that is very successful in numbers, we will naturally see a lot more failures in aggregate.
You are definitely doing the right thing getting the dirt out of there. As for the Caravan's transmission (ONLY), you both are right. Since 2000, the '03-'07 and '12-'20 model years have been reasonably reliable. Before 2000, they were not in high regard.
Vulcan
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:53 pm

Re: Change it or Leave it In? Lucas? (trans)

Post by Vulcan »

Caretaker wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:54 am
Vulcan wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:10 am We never had a transmission go out on one with over 20 vans, most of them higher mileage and scantily maintained. But with a car like a Caravan that is very successful in numbers, we will naturally see a lot more failures in aggregate.
You are definitely doing the right thing getting the dirt out of there. As for the Caravan's transmission (ONLY), you both are right. Since 2000, the '03-'07 and '12-'20 model years have been reasonably reliable. Before 2000, they were not in high regard.
I drove those early 2000s caravans a lot.

Ha! What's with the 10mm hex drain plug? I didn't have a wrench or socket for that BS. I surmise it's because the transmission oil drain plug is less torque than the motor oil one. I think I read its only around 17 foot-lb.

I saw that most of you were getting about 3.3qt in a transmission drain, so I got a gallon of the T-IV stuff for now. Going to use whatever's left to replace a little of the power steering fluid and probably buy another gallon to get that thing changed out. Steering is a little stiffer than it needs to be, and another Scotty point: the power steering fluid is under extreme PSI, so grit in that stuff will shred the steering rack over time.

But the transmission will wait til tomorrow when the rain subsides. Family first. I took the opportunity to rotate tires and spray the bloody hell out of the suspension with WD-40, followed by copious liquid wrench on the rubber bits. Winter is coming...
2006 AWD, 207k
Vulcan
Posts: 64
Joined: Sat Jun 06, 2020 5:53 pm

Re: Change it or Leave it In? Lucas? (trans)

Post by Vulcan »

That was easy. I got 3 quarts out, which was dark amber to black. The new fluid smells even stronger than the old, I forgot how weird transmission fluid smells. I didn't put any Lucas in it, if the transmission is solid I don't think it will need that.
And now I have a set of hex wrenches ~
2006 AWD, 207k
Caretaker

Re: Change it or Leave it In? Lucas? (trans)

Post by Caretaker »

Good work. Yeh, the tranny fluid is very pungent now. I'm still used to doing the smell test to determine if there is any burnt frying of the fluid, but I guess those days are over now. I'm sure you heard that aaahhh sound as you drove down the street. That's your transmission thanking you.
zbyers
Posts: 1767
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: Change it or Leave it In? Lucas? (trans)

Post by zbyers »

Caretaker wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:35 am
Vulcan wrote: Fri Nov 13, 2020 8:29 am So, I think I'm in a window here where it's safe to do a drain and fill?
But, I'm aware of reputable mechanic warnings about changing transmission fluid on high mileage cars. This will sometimes result in a car that was shifting fine with a worn transmission and grungy fluid, to then start slipping with new fluid in there.
I say that the window is ALWAYS open for a drain and fill, no matter if it was last done 20,000 miles ago or 200,000 miles ago. That mechanic is full of crap. If you power flush out a transmission to get all of the fluid out to include the majority of what sits atop the housing, you are always at risk of dislodging some burned on "varnish" which can get into the gears and ruin a transmission. But simple draining???? No way. It can only be beneficial to get fresh fluid in and provide the maximum heat protection and part lubrication that is possible.
I agree. It never hurts to drain and fill.
'74 Thing, '79 El Camino, '83 VW DoKa '91 Vanagon, '03 Base, 04 GT
'06 CRV, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '12 Highlander Limited, '17 Frontier CCLB

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