Air Recirculation Actuator

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06BlackVibe
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Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:18 pm

Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by 06BlackVibe »

New member from Wausau, WI. Greetings fellow Vibe Enthusiasts. I have been a Vibe owner since 2010. A friend and Vibe owner told me about the GenVibe forum. Very nice!

I have just experienced for the first time the “clicking” actuator for the air recirculation system. Other forum members have referred to it as the actuator for heater blend door. In any event, the actuator makes the clicking sound and is located in the dash above the glove compartment. I recently removed the bad actuator and purchased a new one from Rock Auto. To try out the actuator, I first connected it to the wiring harness to see how it worked. Without knowing any different, I assumed that when the recirculating button was pressed, the actuator would turn for a while and then stop at a position that would correspond to match the rotation for the air blend door. Or, if the recirculation button was not pressed, the actuator would rotate in the other direction and then stop. However, after connecting the actuator, it would continually rotate in one direction or continually rotate in the other direction, depending upon if the recirculation "button" was depressed or not. What am I missing here with the actuator? Any help or guidance would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Bookworm
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by Bookworm »

You aren't missing anything. You've just seen _why_ they break.

This is a constant load motor, running positive or negative. The button just switches the direction. When it hits a stop, it then continues to try to turn, but isn't strong enough to overload the shaft.

The fix for this would have been to either use metal gears, or put in a contact stop switch. Needless to say, NUMMI didn't think the extra cost was worth it, as it wouldn't be THEIR car that had the failure.
zbyers
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by zbyers »

Bookworm wrote: Thu Sep 12, 2019 6:14 pm You aren't missing anything. You've just seen _why_ they break.

This is a constant load motor, running positive or negative. The button just switches the direction. When it hits a stop, it then continues to try to turn, but isn't strong enough to overload the shaft.

The fix for this would have been to either use metal gears, or put in a contact stop switch. Needless to say, NUMMI didn't think the extra cost was worth it, as it wouldn't be THEIR car that had the failure.
Spot on! What a stupid design. Inherently, the matrix is more reliable as it doesn't have this issue. :lol:
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06BlackVibe
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by 06BlackVibe »

Bookworm & zbyers, thank you very much for the helpful information. I replaced the part and it appears to be working on. Thanks again.
Bookworm
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by Bookworm »

06BlackVibe wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:46 pm Bookworm & zbyers, thank you very much for the helpful information. I replaced the part and it appears to be working on. Thanks again.
Hopefully you didn't throw the old one away. Pop it open, flip the gear, and you now have a spare if/when the replacement breaks a tooth.
tpollauf
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by tpollauf »

Bookworm wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:38 am Pop it open, flip the gear, and you now have a spare if/when the replacement breaks a tooth.
Yep. Couldn't agree more. This is what you'll find when opening it up :o

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ZZvroom
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by ZZvroom »

My 2003 GT has this issue.
Is access via the glove box roof?
Can I pull a fuse in the meantime?
Bookworm
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by Bookworm »

ZZvroom wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:56 am My 2003 GT has this issue.
Is access via the glove box roof?
Can I pull a fuse in the meantime?
Nah. Punch the recirculate button. It'll put the door in the other position, and hold it there.
zbyers
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by zbyers »

ZZvroom wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:56 am My 2003 GT has this issue.
Is access via the glove box roof?
Can I pull a fuse in the meantime?
Remove the glove box, and you'll see it. I JUST did mine yesterday. It's not hard, really. Just two small 5.5mm screws holding it in, and the electrical connector.. 2 hours later, I was finally finished. :lol:
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Bookworm
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by Bookworm »

zbyers wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:09 am
ZZvroom wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:56 am My 2003 GT has this issue.
Is access via the glove box roof?
Can I pull a fuse in the meantime?
Remove the glove box, and you'll see it. I JUST did mine yesterday. It's not hard, really. Just two small 5.5mm screws holding it in, and the electrical connector.. 2 hours later, I was finally finished. :lol:
It helps if you have a thumb socket wrench - looks like a hockey puck, but takes a 1/4" socket.
Jbenrod
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by Jbenrod »

I still don't know how people are able to get that top screw out. I can reach up and feel it but since there is a cable or duct just to the left of it I can never get a tool or even just the socket in there to get on the screw head.

Regardless, I wanted to report that switching the gear (180) with the worn teeth didn't last but a few months on my Vibe before the other side teeth stripped out as well. Next I purchased a new Dorman actuator unit and it has now already failed with probably less than 12,000 miles (same "ticking" noise now happening again). Therefore I can not recommend the Dorman brand for a replacement.
2005 Base - 220k
zbyers
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by zbyers »

Jbenrod wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 2:13 pm I still don't know how people are able to get that top screw out. I can reach up and feel it but since there is a cable or duct just to the left of it I can never get a tool or even just the socket in there to get on the screw head.

Regardless, I wanted to report that switching the gear (180) with the worn teeth didn't last but a few months on my Vibe before the other side teeth stripped out as well. Next I purchased a new Dorman actuator unit and it has now already failed with probably less than 12,000 miles (same "ticking" noise now happening again). Therefore I can not recommend the Dorman brand for a replacement.
I ended up losing that screw, so mine is only held in by the one lower screw. My replacement came from Amazon for like... $10. Not expecting much, but figured if it's going to go bad, might as well make it cheap.
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pwyu1969
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by pwyu1969 »

The trick to getting the top screw is (1) using the 5mm or 5/32 (I think) socket, wrap the barrel with two sided tape. I use the kind to adhere body trim as it has the foam core to add thickness. The tape adhesive and added thickness allows you to take it out and put it back in. (2) if you can reach your hand in to touch the screws, you can use this method. I’ve done all my vibes this way.
Bookworm
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by Bookworm »

That's why I use the thumb wrench. It's usually just enough to knock it loose, then I twist the socket the rest of the way with my fingers. usually causes a cramp, but I've only had to do it three times in 16 years.
jolt
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by jolt »

If a current limiter was added to the motor and set properly, you would not be breaking as may plastic gears. If the whole gear box and gears were made of metal, it would not break as often too but that would cost way more money. It all comes down to cost. Add a current limiter at roughly $75~$100 for those that can not make their own current limiter or buy the plastic replacements. You do have choices. Money, time, and your imagination are your only limits.
gr8n8
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by gr8n8 »

Does the blend door have a default position? like spring loaded one position or the other? Arizona heat right up under the top of the dash is going to cook the gears quickly. I'd be willing to let it remain in the fresh air position or figure out a cable install to change it rather than need to change it multiple times.
thanks
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joatmon
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by joatmon »

gr8n8 wrote: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:08 pm Does the blend door have a default position? like spring loaded one position or the other? Arizona heat right up under the top of the dash is going to cook the gears quickly. I'd be willing to let it remain in the fresh air position or figure out a cable install to change it rather than need to change it multiple times.
thanks
Welcome to genvibe!

Not sure what year you have, but on the 03-08, the actuator has no spring or default position. The problem manifests because in either fresh or recirc, the motor is powered and pushing against the door, one way or the other.

The easiest way to get to always fresh is to set the air to fresh, and then disconnect the electrical connector from the actuator.

A step up from that would be to splice a switch into one of the wires going to the actuator, so you could enable/disable the actuator. I think there are two wires, the dash switch changes the polarity so the motor spins one way or the other, so it shouldn't matter which wire you splice in the extra switch
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gokevingo
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by gokevingo »

Bookworm wrote: Tue Sep 17, 2019 12:38 am
06BlackVibe wrote: Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:46 pm Bookworm & zbyers, thank you very much for the helpful information. I replaced the part and it appears to be working on. Thanks again.
Hopefully you didn't throw the old one away. Pop it open, flip the gear, and you now have a spare if/when the replacement breaks a tooth.
Sorry, but flip which gear? I’ve got it opened up on the coffee table right now and just don’t see what can flip.
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joatmon
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by joatmon »

gokevingo wrote: Wed Apr 01, 2020 2:48 pm
Sorry, but flip which gear? I’ve got it opened up on the coffee table right now and just don’t see what can flip.
see tpollauf's picture above showing the inside of the actuator, and you'll notice the biggest white gear is missing two teeth. Pull that one out, put it back in rotated 180 degrees
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philipsoeder
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by philipsoeder »

After confirming recirculation/max a/c button wad disengaged so hvac is in fresh air mode, I just removed glovebox, squeezed the electrical connector and pulled it’s power. Also pulled hepa filter, washed it out thoroughly, let it dry and put it back in.
Last time the actuator failed it cost $241 for mechanic to replace and new part broke within 18 months.
Taking away its power was free, and my hepa filter is like new, for free.
Only drawback is my windows won’t fog in winter when the recirculation/max air dash button gets stuck!
zbyers
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by zbyers »

philipsoeder wrote: Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:51 pm After confirming recirculation/max a/c button wad disengaged so hvac is in fresh air mode, I just removed glovebox, squeezed the electrical connector and pulled it’s power. Also pulled hepa filter, washed it out thoroughly, let it dry and put it back in.
Last time the actuator failed it cost $241 for mechanic to replace and new part broke within 18 months.
Taking away its power was free, and my hepa filter is like new, for free.
Only drawback is my windows won’t fog in winter when the recirculation/max air dash button gets stuck!
You were only two or three 5.5mm bolts away from replacing it yourself when you unplugged the electrical connector.
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Jammin81
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by Jammin81 »

zbyers wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:09 am
ZZvroom wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:56 am My 2003 GT has this issue.
Is access via the glove box roof?
Can I pull a fuse in the meantime?
Remove the glove box, and you'll see it. I JUST did mine yesterday. It's not hard, really. Just two small 5.5mm screws holding it in, and the electrical connector.. 2 hours later, I was finally finished. :lol:
That top bolt!!! Arggghhh

I coated the socket I used with electrical tape and left it over night.

The gummy / sticky mess gave me the grip to break the bolt. I don’t have massive hands but we’re sore enough after this fiddly (removed). That bar is best removed or placed aside if you can be bothered to remove ANOTHER awkward 10 mm (?) bolt from memory.......
She had a face like a box of frogs!
zbyers
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by zbyers »

A Psycho Martyr wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 5:34 am Any chance we can get that little gear 3d printed out of something more durable?
I sent an old one to a guy on the GV Facebook page. It is a "get around to it" project for him though. But he is planning on making them out of something stronger.
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A Psycho Martyr
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by A Psycho Martyr »

zbyers wrote: Wed Aug 26, 2020 9:53 am It is a "get around to it" project for him
lol, I have a few of those
ZZvroom
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by ZZvroom »

I'm buying a new actuator since at 135,000 miles, the previous owner may well have flipped it. A friend will help me; he's done the job before.

My question for the grouo is:

Which brand should I {not} buy? I see many on Rock Auto and others on AMZ.
zbyers
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by zbyers »

ZZvroom wrote: Fri Oct 02, 2020 5:45 am I'm buying a new actuator since at 135,000 miles, the previous owner may well have flipped it. A friend will help me; he's done the job before.

My question for the grouo is:

Which brand should I {not} buy? I see many on Rock Auto and others on AMZ.
I bought the cheapest I could find on Amazon/eBay lol
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by ZZvroom »

We replaced it today, at the cost of a lost socket and a lot of headscratching over where it went.

I wonder about one thing. On the bad unit, do you need to open it to move the gear?
Suppose you mark the position, power it & help it past the missing gear.
Stop at the 180 degree point and reinstall.
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joatmon
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by joatmon »

ZZvroom wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:13 pm
I wonder about one thing. On the bad unit, do you need to open it to move the gear?
Suppose you mark the position, power it & help it past the missing gear.
Stop at the 180 degree point and reinstall.
I can't find it, but I remember somewhere someone here said that works
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hogdoctor
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by hogdoctor »

ZZvroom wrote: Thu Oct 08, 2020 5:13 pm We replaced it today, at the cost of a lost socket and a lot of headscratching over where it went.

I wonder about one thing. On the bad unit, do you need to open it to move the gear?
Suppose you mark the position, power it & help it past the missing gear.
Stop at the 180 degree point and reinstall.
You can do that, but I would still open it and see that none of the teeth on the other side are broken as if it had already been rotated once before, or any teeth on the other gears or axles are damaged as well.
KingKrab65
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by KingKrab65 »

Jammin81 wrote: Wed Aug 19, 2020 4:37 pm
zbyers wrote: Mon Nov 04, 2019 3:09 am
ZZvroom wrote: Sun Nov 03, 2019 4:56 am My 2003 GT has this issue.
Is access via the glove box roof?
Can I pull a fuse in the meantime?
Remove the glove box, and you'll see it. I JUST did mine yesterday. It's not hard, really. Just two small 5.5mm screws holding it in, and the electrical connector.. 2 hours later, I was finally finished. :lol:
That top bolt!!! Arggghhh

I coated the socket I used with electrical tape and left it over night.

The gummy / sticky mess gave me the grip to break the bolt. I don’t have massive hands but we’re sore enough after this fiddly (removed). That bar is best removed or placed aside if you can be bothered to remove ANOTHER awkward 10 mm (?) bolt from memory.......

I am also having an issue accessing the top bolt. I used a 7/32" to get the lower bolt loose but am unable to get to the top bolt. I can touch it with my finger but am unable to get a socket (short or deep) on it. I tried a universal joint on the socket. It just flops near the upper bolt without going on to the bolt. My 1/4" socket wrench seems to top out against the underside of the dash lid before getting to an angle to to slip the socket on the bolt.

What is the bar that you are referring to? How much of an (removed) irritant is it to move and put back into position? And does it help with accessibility to the top bolt?

Thanks for your help!
2003 Base Vibe
tpollauf
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by tpollauf »

KingKrab65 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:46 am
What is the bar that you are referring to? How much of an (removed) irritant is it to move and put back into position? And does it help with accessibility to the top bolt?

Thanks for your help!
YES .... It definitely helps out by removing/bending it out of the way. Yellow arrow points to the support bar. I believe when I changed mine out, I bent it DOWNward just enough for my left hand to get in there and access the top bolt.

Image
Image
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SSizler
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by SSizler »

I removed the passenger side air bag to get to the top bolt.
Made it fairly easy to get to.
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KingKrab65
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by KingKrab65 »

tpollauf wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 6:35 am
KingKrab65 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:46 am
What is the bar that you are referring to? How much of an (removed) irritant is it to move and put back into position? And does it help with accessibility to the top bolt?

Thanks for your help!
YES .... It definitely helps out by removing/bending it out of the way. Yellow arrow points to the support bar. I believe when I changed mine out, I bent it DOWNward just enough for my left hand to get in there and access the top bolt.

Image
Thank you so much. I was hoping that it wasn't the bar going across the picture. Also it is isn't helping being right handed trying to do everything left handed. I will have to give this a shot and report back with the results.

Thanks again!
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Mark
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by Mark »

The actuator in Frosty has been thumping for awhile now. I've looked at it and just really, really don't want to have to try to get my hand in there to replace it.
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KingKrab65
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by KingKrab65 »

Image
[/quote]

SUCCESS!!! I was able to change out the air recirculation actuator on Saturday.

I varied the bar plan a little to get access to the top screw. On the bar in question, you will notice a nut facing up on the upper left in this picture. It is a 10mm that I was able to remove pretty easy. Also on the bottom of this bar is a little tab. I pulled the little tab to face straight down. After doing both of these things, I was able to lift the bar over the upward facing bolt and out of the way of the actuator. Doing this enabled me to have a more direct access to the bolt.

I was not, however, able to totally remove the top bolt on the actuator. It was not the underside of the dash stopping the ratchet but a heat/ac vent tube. I was able to break the screw loose and back it out enough to be able to "He-Man" the screw out the rest of the way. The re-install went pretty quick and I was fortunate enough to have the actuator slots on the old and new in the exact same position.

Thanks to everyone for their patience and help especially tpollauf for the extremely helpful picture!
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tpollauf
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by tpollauf »

KingKrab65 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:14 am Thanks to everyone for their patience and help especially tpollauf for the extremely helpful picture!
Glad to hear you finally succeeded at changing this out! Glad my input helped you out, as that's why we're all here in the first place. To share knowledge on Vibe's, share stories, and encourage all of us to keep these great cars on the road. .................... Tim
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Gunicorn1975
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Re: Air Recirculation Actuator

Post by Gunicorn1975 »

pwyu1969 wrote: Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:06 am The trick to getting the top screw is (1) using the 5mm or 5/32 (I think) socket, wrap the barrel with two sided tape. I use the kind to adhere body trim as it has the foam core to add thickness. The tape adhesive and added thickness allows you to take it out and put it back in. (2) if you can reach your hand in to touch the screws, you can use this method. I’ve done all my vibes this way.
Thank you for this advise. It worked!
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