not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

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canadave
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not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

Post by canadave »

My 04 Vibe (161,000km on odo) is starting to frustrate me :( The story so far:

We put on new tires a month or so ago, got an alignment and balanced all 4 tires. The new tires and balancing was done at Canadian Tire, the alignment work was done at the best alignment shop in town. After alignment, the car still occasionally (not always like before) pulled slightly to the right. Brought it back, they didn't see anything wrong, said it might be a balancing issue.

Took the car back to Canadian Tire, they thought there was a defective tire. They replaced the tire, rebalanced. But there's still same issue of occasional slight pull to right. By comparison, our 09 Vibe is dead arrow straight.

The other issue that may or may not be related--the steering wheel vibrates and even feels a bit "loose". What I mean by "loose" is that if I take my hands off the wheel, it kind of wants to turn a little bit left or right whenever it hits bumps in the road. Again by comparison, our 09 Vibe's steering wheel seems quite steady, remaining centered when it goes over bumps in the road.

To add to this, our 04 steering wheel vibrates *even when idling*. There's a bit of a vibration and noise present throughout the car, and the engine noise seems a tiny bit louder than I remember it being before, which of course indicates maybe some kind of exhaust problem. Again, our 09 Vibe has almost zero vibration when idling, almost silent. Idle RPM's in the 04 Vibe seem fine though.

So my wife, who works with the police, took the car in to the auto repair shop that the cops use for their police cars. You'd think this place would be half decent, and they apparently are a very reputable shop. My wife explained the problems, explained that we are going on a long trip in 2 weeks, and asked them to look everything over and see what they can find. These guys took the Vibe for a test drive, and said they couldn't find anything wrong. They did check spark plugs, said they were fine.

Even better--I hooked up an OBD device to the 04 to check. No codes thrown. OBD indicates nothing wrong.

So--strange *occasional* pull to right, vibration in steering wheel and car even at idle, "loose"-feeling steering wheel, slight increase in engine noise--but no engine codes and nothing a mechanic apparently could figure out. What does this add up to??

One note--in the middle of this whole saga, the car began shuddering violently during drives. It was a broken brake caliper (front left side). Replaced that. All the brakes were redone this past winter.
2009 base Vibe, silver"
lannvouivre
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Re: not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

Post by lannvouivre »

When driving in a straight line on a level surface, gently apply the brakes, and then release them.

Do you pull to one side? Which way? When you release, does it pull to a side? Which side?

The above is for locating a clog etc. in a brake line. It pulls to the side with stronger (not blocked) pressure, then when you let go, it pulls to the side with residual (plugged and unable to release) pressure.

You may want to flush your power steering system. This is simple and you can do it yourself.
viewtopic.php?f=12&t=43319&p=499788&hil ... sh#p499788
What we did yesterday was put the inlet in a full bowl and the inlet in an empty drain pain. You'll need a lot of ATF for this, so get cheapo Wal*Mart stuff or something. I don't know which line is which, but I'd guess the inlet is the one going straight down, and the outlet comes in from the top on the side of the reservoir.

Now, check your outer tie rod ends for damage or excessive play.
http://www.yotatech.com/attachments/f12 ... s-side.jpg
It's the one attached at the far left. The boot should be intact and not cracked, and the stud should not be easy to flex around.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLOBhBdhPVg Video of checking for play.

You may also have worn bushings in your control arm, or an alignment issue. If you have the wrong camber or caster angle, the steering qualities can change.

EDIT: If the pull to the right is also only on certain surfaces, keep in mind many roads have a crown in the middle to take water off the road, so your surface slopes to the right, and therefore your car will pull to the right.
"If you don't love me at my diddliest, you don't deserve me at my doodliest." - User ktluvscricket of reddit
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canadave
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Re: not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

Post by canadave »

Thanks for the tips, sorry for the late reply. I checked the braking as you suggested, no swerve detected in any direction. So that's all good. I'll have to check the tie rods etc. when I get a chance.

It really does feel like something must be wrong with the fundamental structure, since I trust that the guys who did the wheel alignment (and double-checked it when my wife brought the car back to them) would've known what they were doing. I know what you mean about road crowning, but the *occasional* slight pull to the right seems to be independent of that issue. And the 09 Vibe doesn't exhibit this type of behaviour at all. It's absolutely weird.
2009 base Vibe, silver"
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canadave
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Re: not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

Post by canadave »

I finally got around to opening the hood and having a look while the engine is running. I think I've narrowed down the cause of the shaking--the entire engine area is vibrating in the exact same way, by the same amount, as the shaking I'm feeling in the car. Not horrific, but definitely more than my 09 Vibe, which I can barely feel ticking over.

Here's a video I just made of the 04:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPYeP7CN7Ag

Surely that's not a normal amount of vibration, is it?
2009 base Vibe, silver"
Tigerman
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Re: not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

Post by Tigerman »

[quote="canadave"]I finally got around to opening the hood and having a look while the engine is running. I think I've narrowed down the cause of the shaking--the entire engine area is vibrating in the exact same way, by the same amount, as the shaking I'm feeling in the car. Not horrific, but definitely more than my 09 Vibe, which I can barely feel ticking over.

Here's a video I just made of the 04:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPYeP7CN7Ag

Surely that's not a normal amount of vibration, is it?[/I quote]

Buy new belt tensioner sounds think the bolt holding the tension arm holding bolt broke in half hope not the bolt cost 4.00 at a toyota dealer not fun to drill out. How is the car idling? If idle bad the idle air control unit bad just replace the O ring on the sensor new unit 250 dollars eBay 50
gtv237
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Re: not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

Post by gtv237 »

Something loose in the steering system makes it impossible to align correctly. A pull sounds like a camber issue. I would recommend purchasing eccentric bolts and realigning it. "Within spec" isn't always good enough. You can get it dead on with eccentric bolts.
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canadave
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Re: not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

Post by canadave »

aaaaand, it gets better :(

I have an OBD dongle attached to the Vibe, and the other week it showed a "Pending" trouble code for the first time: P0456 (Evaporative emissions very slight leak). I thought it might be just a loose gas cap--tightened it.

That was last week. Today, the check engine light came on. I looked at my OBD reader app, and it's showing the same P0456 code, but now it is in red "Warning" status rather than yellow "Pending" status.

Just about ready to sell the darned thing :(
2009 base Vibe, silver"
Nasmfell
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Re: not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

Post by Nasmfell »

canadave wrote:aaaaand, it gets better :(

I have an OBD dongle attached to the Vibe, and the other week it showed a "Pending" trouble code for the first time: P0456 (Evaporative emissions very slight leak). I thought it might be just a loose gas cap--tightened it.

That was last week. Today, the check engine light came on. I looked at my OBD reader app, and it's showing the same P0456 code, but now it is in red "Warning" status rather than yellow "Pending" status.

Just about ready to sell the darned thing :(


There is your solution. You'll still have the '09
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canadave
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Re: not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

Post by canadave »

Yeah, but for various reasons, it's not practical at this time to sell it. Gotta get it fixed somehow :( It's only got 160K on it...should be just starting to enter middle-age, not be falling apart! :shock:
2009 base Vibe, silver"
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canadave
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Re: not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

Post by canadave »

Wife took the car in to the shop today. Turns out there was an exhaust pipe broken in two places. The shop is repairing it as I type this. $149 to fix. Sigh....
2009 base Vibe, silver"
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canadave
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Re: not sure how to troubleshoot 04 Vibe

Post by canadave »

It gets even better! :twisted:

Exhaust is fixed, seems quieter now (according to my wife, who is driving the car to and fro today). She brought it back in to Canadian Tire to get them to check the tire balance, which still seemed a bit off (see first post in this thread). They took it in, rebalanced the tires, and sent her on her way. She got no further than the first highway exit away from the store when she realized the balance was now WORSE than when she brought it in. She just phoned to tell me that she's brought it back to Canadian Tire, they're having a different tech (some kid who's been on the job for just a year) balance them yet again (fourth time now).

This is the last straw. If they can't balance them properly, I guess I need to bring them somewhere else (and then try to get CT to pay for it, since they've screwed us around so much).

*** EDIT ***

OK, we're getting somewhere with the tire vibration. Canadian Tire wasn't able to balance the tires properly. They did eventually determine that we probably need hub centric rings, since the rims on our 04 Vibe are aftermarket. I'd never heard the phrase "hub centric rings" until today, but now that I see what they are and what they do, I'll bet anything that that will fix the tire vibrations.

Now we just need to find the rings :( CT didn't have any. I'm going to try to find some metal ones at NAPA tomorrow.

Also have to give some kudos to CT. They replaced all four Continental tires (the ones we bought a month ago) with brand new Michelin Defenders. I was a little miffed that they apparently replaced the tires without saying they were going to, but on the whole I think I'm happy they did so, as I've heard they're good. And they're brand new, so that's all good.
2009 base Vibe, silver"
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