The Quarterly Supercharger Post.

yank dini · Post by **yank dini** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:04 am

Since it's been a while since I last posted about the SC.......What's the word on it now... My goal is to have one in my Vibe by May/June 04

cibomatto · Post by **cibomatto** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:16 am

I have excepted the fact that I will never own a SC.. its just too expensive.... I however will most likely get a CIA.. errrr. I mean CAI... one of those two..LOL

yank dini · Post by **yank dini** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:22 am

cool now I can start saving.

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:33 am

i think pontiac really dropped the ball on accessories for the vibe. the supercharger is out of reach of most, it took way too long to come out. it's only available for automatics, no awd supercharger, blah blah blah. not to mention the coolest accessory gm has made for the vibe so far is probably the front end deflector! ooooohh, wow!

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:47 am

The fact of releasing the SC for the auto only is so stupid.The SC is here to improve performace and make the vibe more like a sport car. And for me, a sport car comes with a MANUAL tranny!!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:36 am

I thought that the supercharger came with a new PCM/ECU/ECM/whatever you want to call the engine computer. I never did understand why Toyota and GM felt the need to put different ones in Matrixes and Vibes, since the engine and tranny are the exact same. If the SC kit comes with a new computer, why (other than warranty) can't people buy the SC for the manual 1ZZ Matrix?It doesn't really matter to me, I won't buy one. $3K plus premium fuel after that, that's a no-brainer on my budget.

Flip-Side · Post by **Flip-Side** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 6:51 am

quote:The SC is here to improve performace and make the vibe more like a sport car. And for me, a sport car comes with a MANUAL tranny!!Right on. GM screwed themselves, straight-up. Having a different one from the matrix, the high price to low performance gain ratio, and now you cant have one with a manual or the awd?! What kind of crap is that! Sounds like someone dropped the ball, and the SC got rushed into production.Hey...I got an idea...lets make parts that only apply to 1/3 of the vibes out there, or less. Great strategy. GM needs to wise up. It's no wonder every other company out there is dominating them in the small-car market.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 7:05 am

!/4 of the vibes. No SC for AWD, 1ZZ manual, or GT.

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:22 am

unfortunately base automatics make up probably over 75% of vibe sales. dont worry the manual version will come out eventually and when i get the money it will rule all!!!!!!!

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:07 pm

quote:unfortunately base automatics make up probably over 75% of vibe sales. This was exactly what I was about to say. But it is primarily the little old grandmas and middle age empty-nesters that buy that model. The majority of the market segment that would actually purchase a s/c for their Vibe are certainly not those people, but the segment that was alienated by this corporate decision. Can anyone say "B O N E H E A D"??? I bet GM's marketing department now can. Could someone please pass along the number or email address for one of the "higher-ups" in GM's marketing department? I want to ask them for their work address, take a drive up to Detroit with my hammer and !!!Oh yes, hush--hush there are GM employees on here reading this. GREAT!!!! I hope they are reading/listening to another entire generation of disgrutled customers. Hear the giant sucking sound? No, it's not another Ross Perot campaign gimmick, it's the sound of your future customer base fleeing your dealerships with all their money and running to the nearest foreign car dealer to spend their money because their manufacturer listened and responded to customer needs. Other car makers make things like body kits, dress-up parts for the interior and exterior as well as underhood, true high-performance models of popular youth-oriented cars, and performance parts for the performance enthusiasts buying their cars. What do we get? A friggin' electrical plug in the dashboard. While that plug is nice and comes in handy sometimes, I'd gladly trade it for some REAL stuff for my car. It's like I'm jumping up and down in the crowd waving money at you wanting to buy parts and accessories----"hey, look, over here, I wanna buy some cool stuff---what?---what's that?---oh, you don't have any---and you don't care because you already have my money from the sale of the car? and you don't care if we all go buy cars from another manufacturer that listens to us because you will just buy a majority share of their company too?" This is bogus and too many of your decisions suck.I feel that I am well qualified to remark in such a way. Why? Two reasons. One---I have driven a GM vehicle for all but 2 years of my driving life, most of my immediate family owns and drives GM vehicles and has for decades (that's right--decades). Every single car that has been in my family's driveway since I was born was a GM product. That's what I call brand loyalty. And Two---I am currently a business student who has had to study and learn about these sorts of issues. No, not a community college student (not that there is anything wrong with people bettering themselves by attending a community college) but a student at a university that is one of only about 120 schools in the nation to acheive the highest level of accreditation given to business schools. Don't believe me? You can look it up. It is Duquesne University's A.J. Palumbo School of Business Administration. I also plan to complete a graduate degree at the same university's equally accredited John F. Donahue Graduate School of Business. They can be looked up at www.bus.duq.edu.I feel that many of these decisions are made by the 68 year old men in charge of everything up there at GM. You really need to get some younger influence at a high level in that company if you want to make a much larger impact on the younger market segment. Let's look a little younger than the Buick Park Avenue and Cadillac DeVille crowd. I'm not suggesting that they take a 14 year old and put them in charge of domestic operations or something like that, but the glitzy youth-appealing prototypes that never make it to production will only wow over the crowd for so long. So you can come up with some world-class design ideas that catch the eye and appeal to a broad range of buyers. That's wonderful. Now MAKE some of them instead of MAKING EXCUSES for why you won't produce them. And develop the factory performance aftermarket that so many of us are seeking from you. Don't just tell us "we're working on that". Show us. Tell us about what you have planned for this and let us watch you build it. No matter how big of a company you are, you should still be held accountable to your customers. I'm sure your dealers would appreciate it, too. The more appealing products that they have to offer equals more sales (sales of the vehicles AND parts because the parts are no good without the car to put them on) which means higher profits for the dealers and the manufacturer. You go to the SEMA shows. You see how much money the aftermarket is making by making appealing products for YOUR cars. That is YOUR money that you are sitting back and allowing them to make. And they earned it, you didn't. Perhaps it would be more economically feasible to work out marketing and development deals with some of the popular aftermarket manufacturers. Maybe to work with them to develop products for your vehicles and market some of them through your dealers or offer them as factory options. Why not? Subaru does it with MOMO, I believe Audi/Volkswagon work with Neuspeed, Ford works with several aftermarket parts manufacturers like Roush Racing. GM is the largest car manufacturer in the world. I expect more from them than what I currently see.

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 2:49 pm

Amen brother!

Hot Vibe · Post by **Hot Vibe** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:49 pm

I hear you and can do nothing about it. I hear it from people all around the country and even GM employees. I wish that I could help on this matter but I am in service not marketing. Hopefully people read this. You can post your message on Pontiac.com.

drunkenmaxx · Post by **drunkenmaxx** » Tue Nov 04, 2003 10:23 pm

this is what caused the reign of the MF hondas!

wicked1981 · Post by **wicked1981** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:52 am

For the simple reason that I have never had a car with a sc is the reason im getting one. I use premium fuel now as it is (California price almost $2.00 a Gallon) so all i have to dish out is the $3 grand. Any one think the SC price will eventually go down? Dont have the money to spare but 2-3 months of saving will do it. Wouldnt like to pay 3 grand and months later have it go down in price. Does it make a big fifference in performance? Will CAI improve it even more? Dont know much about SC's.

NY Pete · Post by **NY Pete** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:10 am

Word up. I swear I'm seriously thinking of ditching my Vibe for a WRX wagon or waiting for the Saab 9-2 (WRX derivative) to come out next year...Pete

Roadpig · Post by **Roadpig** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:13 am

I swear I'm seriously thinking of ditching my Vibe for a WRX wagon or waiting for the Saab 9-2 (WRX derivative) to come out next year...Or the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution...droool drool

NY Pete · Post by **NY Pete** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 11:26 am

too boxy IMHO. I'd love a S4 Avant, but I don't even want to think about that kinda $$$... Pete

ragingfish · Post by **ragingfish** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:57 pm

quote:For the simple reason that I have never had a car with a sc is the reason im getting one. I use premium fuel now as it is (California price almost $2.00 a Gallon) so all i have to dish out is the $3 grand. Why do you use premium now? You obviously don't have a GT if you can get the supercharger. The GT is the only one that uses premium. If you're putting premium in a 1ZZ engine, you're throwing money away.quote:Any one think the SC price will eventually go down? Dont have the money to spare but 2-3 months of saving will do it. Wouldnt like to pay 3 grand and months later have it go down in price.No. It won't. It's not like electronics that are introduced at high prices, but eventually get cheaper. I've never seen something such as a supercharger be introduced at one price and later reduced. It is what it is AFAIK.quote:Does it make a big fifference in performance?Most likely. Haven't personally driven one, but it boats some hefty improvement numbers. From what I hear from greenfire who owns one, it's pretty sweet.quote:Will CAI improve it even more?As a CAI improves the performance of a stock engine, it will with a supercharged one as well.

AKLGT · Post by **AKLGT** » Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:35 pm

quote:Word up. I swear I'm seriously thinking of ditching my Vibe for a WRX wagon or waiting for the Saab 9-2 (WRX derivative) to come out next year...Petehey, i agree. i almost kick myself for not buying a wrx instead of the vibe gt. see how many a/m parts there already are for them, plus awd with 227 hp? hey, GM, (removed)? where's all our stuff for our cars? no wonder Japan is kicking all your a$$es in sales!

NY Pete · Post by **NY Pete** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:01 am

quote:hey, i agree. i almost kick myself for not buying a wrx instead of the vibe gt. see how many a/m parts there already are for them, plus awd with 227 hp? hey, GM, (removed)? where's all our stuff for our cars? no wonder Japan is kicking all your a$$es in sales!Yeah, my buddy already is up to about 280 crank hp with only ~$1600 in parts (Vishnu 3" turbo-back, Cobb ECU flash) - the car pulls like an absolute madman, plus it can go anywhere in the snow... SHEESH! Pete

NY Pete · Post by **NY Pete** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:12 am

Yeah, a Blitz TT that counts revs and increases the cool down time if yer beatin' it a bit before you shut it off... It looks like I'm selling him my gunmetal 18's to put on his Sonic Yellow 'rex - should look nice!Pete

Post by **NSimkins** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:13 am

The Supercharger WILL be released for the 5-speed Base Vibe within a couple weeks. In short, there were problems with the wheel hop experienced during testing so they only released it for the Automatics at that time. More details on this will be published in the SEMA Show 2003 area on the site tomorrow (keep an eye out!).

NY Pete · Post by **NY Pete** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 9:25 am

quote:I am looking at a Forester XT and I am not too savvy on Turbo's and how long they last. I have heard TT's are the way to go and the Blitz ones for $125.00 is a good option. Now, how would in the hell do I wire it in LOL. But anything that benefits the life of a turbo is well worth it. They're pretty easy to wire it in, if my friend can do it I'm sure anybody can (he's not really wiring savvy at ALL!). Or you can go with a CompuStar remote start (I have one!) that has a built in turbo timer option (you can turn it on or off). Pete

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Thu Nov 06, 2003 5:17 pm

quote:In short, there were problems with the wheel hop experienced during testing so they only released it for the Automatics at that time. More details on this will be published in the SEMA Show 2003 area on the site tomorrow (keep an eye out!). But I WANT a car that will smoke the tires off the line. Why would you pay all that money for a detuned performance part?Nice pics from the SEMA show BTW. The paint job on that Matix was sweet! Too bad the hood wasn't open on the Vibe though.

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 10:43 pm

http://www.genvibe.com/html/features/au ... ates.shtml says "A revised engine mount, which will eliminate the wheel hop, will be released within the next couple weeks that will enable Vibe owners with the 5-speed transmission to purchase the Supercharger kit."I have gotten wheel hop without the SC. Does GM plan to offer the wheel hop fix separately from the SC kit?Found a recent article on the SC at http://www.stockworld.de/msg/574787.html, doesn't mention the auto/manual or wheel hop stuff. SC base 20 ft-lbs more torque than GT

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Mon Nov 10, 2003 11:34 pm

quote:"A revised engine mount, which will eliminate the wheel hop, will be released within the next couple weeks that will enable Vibe owners with the 5-speed transmission to purchase the Supercharger kit."I have gotten wheel hop without the SC. Does GM plan to offer the wheel hop fix separately from the SC kit?I have this trouble as well.I don't know what would say my dealer if I bring back my Vibe and report this...I presume it will tell me something like: "Do not beat your car so much and it won't happend"

Post by **NSimkins** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:31 am

quote:Too bad the hood wasn't open on the Vibe though.I posted an engine bay pic after the fact. It was a little blurry but the resized image doesn't look too bad.

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:41 am

quote:Actually, I wonder if you take your Vibe in after that new mount is released, they warranty the job and put the new mount on without even purchasing a S/C. As long as the new mount replaces an older, poorly designed mount and did not connect to the S/C.I think this is something Nick might need to ask Jeff Strausser about. What a good idea.Nick could you ask Jeff about this??

Post by **NSimkins** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:47 am

quote:Nick could you ask Jeff about this?? Will do.

Sub-Vibe-R · Post by **Sub-Vibe-R** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 2:04 am

Thanks NickWhat would we do without you

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:49 am

Thanks for the engine bay photo, Nick. Pretty cool stuff!

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 3:56 am

quote:"A revised engine mount, which will eliminate the wheel hop, will be released within the next couple weeks that will enable Vibe owners with the 5-speed transmission to purchase the Supercharger kit."I have gotten wheel hop without the SC. Does GM plan to offer the wheel hop fix separately from the SC kit?OK, then can someone accurately define "wheel hop" for me? Maybe I'm thinking of something different.

satur9 · Post by **satur9** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 6:43 am

atleast i dont have to buy the performance mounts they were selling on newcelica .i NEED 3000 dollars NOW!!!

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:18 am

quote:OK, then can someone accurately define "wheel hop" for me? Maybe I'm thinking of something different.I am sure someone else can explain it better, but for me, when I accelerate really hard from a stop, I expect to have one continous peel out/spinning tires, but what I get is a shaking up front, as if the front end of the car is hopping, and a pulsating tire squeal as the tires hit, spin, hop, hit, spin, hop .... I know spinning my tires will wear them out fast, but that wheel hop sounds like the car is breaking up, a real incentive to not drop the clutch. ANyway, that's what my car does, and I think that is what is referred to as "wheel hop"

Post by **NSimkins** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 8:21 am

I am also going to go out on a limb here and state that the engine mounts (and engines for that matter) are different between the 1ZZ and 2ZZ - hence the reason why base 5-speed owners may have this annoyance over the GT 6-speed owners.??

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 9:19 am

Because of the wheel hop, I could lay down a longer patch of rubber with my dodge caravan than I can in the vibe. However, it is a low priority issue. I suggest you ask GM about it if you have time, but only bring it up after you let them know that there have been a lot of concerns about the weak battery now that the weather is turning cold again, and find out what they are doing about it. Ask about less important things like the wheel hop mod separate from the SC after, if there's time.

Stang2Vibe · Post by **Stang2Vibe** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 1:37 pm

Ah ha. I see. Well, this is not a problem for me, really. I can lay solid strips with the front tires pretty easily when I want. Just have to lay on the gas hard and drop the clutch fast. Can do it on the shift to second as well. I'd like it to get into third, but I don't think this motor is going to make enough torque.

Pablo1669 · Post by **Pablo1669** » Tue Nov 11, 2003 10:59 pm

quote:Thanks NickWhat would we do without youProbably have someone else ask him that knows him really well

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Mon Dec 22, 2003 10:55 am

so, I lost track. Is the SC available fo the 5 speed yet?Also, what did GM come up with to solve the wheel hop problem, and is that available separately from the SC?

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 3:46 pm

Quote, originally posted by joatmon Â»so, I lost track. Is the SC available fo the 5 speed yet?Also, what did GM come up with to solve the wheel hop problem, and is that available separately from the SC?I dont understand this supposed wheel hop problem...I have been driving around with my turbo on ...when I spinn the wheels , they someimes hop a little ... I guess???...no probleim though..

joatmon · Post by **joatmon** » Sun Dec 28, 2003 10:25 pm

It happens enough for me to know that if I punch it and break traction, the car will shake like crazy. So, I try to not break traction. It is not what I would consider a top priority on the overall Vibe issue list (but since I don't have GT clutch slip, my battery is ok, and the paint is holding up, it's about all I have to complain about. )Interesting that a mod to the engine mount is supposed to fix the prob. Maybe the weight/balance of your turbo'd drive train mitigates some of the problem, or maybe it's that when you break traction, you REALLY break traction and the there's so much power to the wheels that they are afraid to hop.Still not likley to buy one, but is the SC available for the base 5 speed Vibe yet?

wicked1981 · Post by **wicked1981** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 8:29 am

I dont know much about turbos or superchargers but what is better? Is there more HP gain with a sc than a turbo? Does SC have a longer life? Is that the reason GM offers the SC over a Turbo?

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:42 am

Quote, originally posted by wicked1981 Â»I dont know much about turbos or superchargers but what is better? Is there more HP gain with a sc than a turbo? Does SC have a longer life? Is that the reason GM offers the SC over a Turbo? it is an endless discussion...perhaps it is about preference...but as far as aftermarket kits, the sc would be easier to install...and is partly why they would offer it as opposed to a turbokit....but I can boast that my turbo kit makes more power than the pontiac SC kit being offered...the reason I chose a turbo is that I was having so much fun driving our car around that I decided that I had to have some more power.....and being mr antsy pants, I did not want to wait for the sc kit to be released...and now a year later, I am happy I made that decision P.S..if you see a frosty vibe with 10 spoke silver wheels zoomin around Port hueneme next summer....then its me , because that is where I go to the beach...and turbos love sea level air!

FusionVGT · Post by **FusionVGT** » Mon Dec 29, 2003 11:59 am

Quote, originally posted by wicked1981 Â»I dont know much about turbos or superchargers but what is better? Is there more HP gain with a sc than a turbo? Does SC have a longer life? Is that the reason GM offers the SC over a Turbo? Superchargers are easier to install and maintain than turbos. You really can't go by people here who have turbos because they are enthusiast and therefore aren't typical owners. Average people who buy turbo cars typically burn out their unit from oil starvation. The oil starvation comes from sludge buildup in the oil hose feeding the turbo. Also, from an emissions standpoint blown cars are easier to build for compliance. Turbochargers soak up all the heat that would normally go to the catalytic converter, reducing the efficiency.As for which of the three is better, it's a silly argument. I like to think of turbochargers, superchargers, and nitrous oxide as three roads to the same destination. Everyone should understand all three and then pick the one that best suits their intentions, budget, etc.

wicked1981 · Post by **wicked1981** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 6:41 am

Hey I had a question about the supercharger. I called GM for Supercharger quote because Im trying to con my wife to letting me buy the supercharger for Valentines but do I get to keep using the CAI? Do I have to remove it for instalation and put the normal air box? Can I use the CAI with the supercharger?

Mavrik · Post by **Mavrik** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:27 am

So if I just want a quick response off the line, a few extra HP under my hood, you guys suggest the Super Charger over the Turbo Charger? And is the SC available on the 5spd Vibe yet? Why should all the automatics have fun eh? heh.

drummerdude · Post by **drummerdude** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 12:26 pm

Does anyone know of any type of turbo or supercharger that is made for the 2zz engine(GT). I want something that will boost my wheel hp way over 200. I like the 2zz engine when I hit lift but its the whole getting to lift that's frustrating no matter how hard you start off the line for example if your holding rpm's at 6k(beginning of lift) and drop the clutch ur either going to have a horrible start time because of wheel spin or have to back off the gas because of wheel hop... yes GT's have the problem with wheel hop also. Can anyone help... i want to make my GT run around 11 in the 1/4 and around 0-60 in 5-6. Even if it means dropping 10grand in it.Thanks for all comments

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 1:58 pm

Quote, originally posted by FusionVGT Â»Superchargers are easier to install and maintain than turbos. You really can't go by people here who have turbos because they are enthusiast and therefore aren't typical owners. Average people who buy turbo cars typically burn out their unit from oil starvation. The oil starvation comes from sludge buildup in the oil hose feeding the turbo. Also, from an emissions standpoint blown cars are easier to build for compliance. Turbochargers soak up all the heat that would normally go to the catalytic converter, reducing the efficiency..this i kinda funny for me to read beacaus I am the only one who has a turboed vibe ...but really, I am just your average joe who became more knowledable by getting a turbo, learning more and more as I go.....what you say about the cat is true,although at 15k boosted miles mine is still ok, and I havent had to smog mine yet....Also, about the oil lines, I ALWAYS let my motor cool down befor turning off the motor...the lenghth of time depends on how long it has been since i last boosted ...sometimes that is 10seconds ago, and sometimes its 5 minutes ago....my turbo spools at 3k rpm....how often do you think I am in boost?...Its very easy to get there and stay there , and that is the fun part., but i honestly dont drive that way all the time, ...Smaller turboes spool up before 2k rpms..the heat soak issue is greater, as the turbo is always spooled!....Turbo timers a good idea to keep your oil from cooking..... so far, all I do is change my oil every 3k miles...oh yeah , and wipe off the pretty intercooler pipes with windex

Faultline · Post by **Faultline** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 2:13 pm

Quote, originally posted by drummerdude Â»Does anyone know of any type of turbo or supercharger that is made for the 2zz engine(GT). I want something that will boost my wheel hp way over 200. I like the 2zz engine when I hit lift but its the whole getting to lift that's frustrating no matter how hard you start off the line for example if your holding rpm's at 6k(beginning of lift) and drop the clutch ur either going to have a horrible start time because of wheel spin or have to back off the gas because of wheel hop... yes GT's have the problem with wheel hop also. Can anyone help... i want to make my GT run around 11 in the 1/4 and around 0-60 in 5-6. Even if it means dropping 10grand in it.Thanks for all commentsgot to the forced induction board on newclica.org...the xs engineering kit is putting down around 250hp on the 2zz..iit cost around 5k. Stafford fab , is releasing a 2zz kit for about 3500 w/ around the same power...(thats who did my kit) ...the problem is, is that a couple of guys w/ the XS kit have wrecked their trannies ....and it is the same tranny as yours...so it is a little week , and that isue needs to be solved....to go higher in boost in the 2zz, the compression needs to be lowered,,,either new pistons, or head work , or thicker head gasketm can do this....the rods in the 2zz are pretty strong, stronger than the 1zz rods...but the 11.5 compression is way too high, for high boost...11's????? .....thats a tough one...the aboves run 13's ...good luck!

drummerdude · Post by **drummerdude** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:01 pm

Thanks faultline..not knowing everything about turbo and super chargers... has anyone ever heard of a way to use both or are they both pre combustion?