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Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:57 am
by chas0218
Hi Everyone,
It's been a while since I've needed to come on here and ask for help diagnosing a problem. I guess that's a good thing. So my car is a 2004 Pontiac Vibe AWD with 241K miles. Yes I know that is a lot of miles but this beast just won't die. Anyway, this weird shaking just started in the past week. The shaking is the whole front of the car and happens just after you hit 50mph. I can accelerate hard or soft and it comes on at the same speed so I feel this is driveline dependent but not transmission related. I haven't need to replace anything major on the car only rear wheel bearings and 1 front wheel bearing. Obviously brakes, tires, did the Transmission lines last summer but she is in great working order and mechanically well taken care of. I am pretty mechanically inclined but this one has me stumped. Would a broken or overly worn tranny mount cause this?
So onto the symptoms:
Aggressive shaking of the front end.
Not felt in the steering it is the actual car shaking.
Only shakes on acceleration hard or soft.
Started when I took a long sweeping left corner.
Things I have checked and seem fine:
Ball joints tight no grease leaking
Switched front and rear tires no improvement
Shocks are in good shape replaced about 100k ago (bearings were good and no noise)
No vibrations just shaking
Steering is tight (no play by hand or in the wheel)
No knocking when turning
Wheel bearings tight
No odd/out of the ordinary noises
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 4:37 pm
by Bookworm
Is it harsher or software when in a turn (left or right)? Does it go away at a higher speed, or stay there.
If it changes a bit with the wheel turns, I'd look at CV Joints and/or tie rods.
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 6:15 pm
by chas0218
No better or worse turning but the faster you go it definitely gets worse. To the point you think the front of the car is ready to fall off
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2019 8:45 pm
by kostby
Sounds like a weight used to balance a wheel/tire came loose and fell off.
Swapping one out-of-balance wheel to another position on the car would still cause the same out-of-balance condition at speed.
When you have time, try replacing one wheel at a time with the (hopefully in-balance) spare, and see if/when the shaking goes away.
A loose weight is more likely to happen with the lead weights that are hammered onto steel rims.
Alloy-wheel balancing weights are usually adhered on the exposed inside surface of the rim, where centrifugal force helps keep them in place.
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:29 am
by chas0218
Have aluminums, and it isn't in the steering so much as the actual car. I have driven cars without balanced tires like no weights at all and that doesn't hold a candle to the amount of shaking. Not to mention it wouldn't matter whether I'm accelerating or not if it was the tires. This only happens on acceleration, if you lift and coast it goes away completely. I have never replaced the CV shafts the 200k miles we have owned the car so I'm leaning that way. At one point a while ago I heard a slight clunk on the driver's side front if I accelerated hard from a stop but not sure if it was before I had the front wheel bearing replaced. I haven't heard it in a long time.
Checked ball joints and tie rod ends all seem good no play.
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 4:51 am
by vibrologist
Still, do what Kostby suggested.
It could also be a tire. When belt separation begins it takes a good amount of centrifugal force to be felt in the car. And you could miss it on inspection because you only see it standing still.
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 5:17 am
by andrewclaus
Is there an alignment shop near you that will give you an estimate? A pro may be able to pinpoint the problem with a quick look--loose member, broken mount, bad joint, tire, etc. Some of those folks are good with a crowbar and know where to look.
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:16 pm
by Bookworm
Oh yeah. One other thing that can cause car shake is if the crankshaft comes unbalanced. Had that happen on a minivan. (One of the three vehicles I forget to list, because they were primarily driven by my wife).
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:20 pm
by jolt
You had the front wheel bearings replaced in the past? Check the axle nuts on the front hubs and make sure they are tight. CV joint boots in good shape with no cuts or tears? Jack up one wheel at a time on the front and try spinning the tire back and forth by hand and watch for play in the drive line from the transmission out to the wheel. If you see any play from shaft to shaft in a CV joint, the joint is bad. Did you check the drive shaft joints going to the rear end? If the rear drive shaft joint is bad up by the transfer case/transmission, it may shake the front too. Did you check the motor mounts? Have you serviced the transfer case oil and has that been checked? Have the front struts ever been replaced? Check lower A-frame arm mounting bushings?
I would have said the tire or wheel too but you stated that you have swapped wheels on the car and it still shakes the front so now we are getting out there in search of a weird issue. Another area to explore is the brake rotors. I do not believe that the Vibe used balance weights in the rotors but I have seen rotors with weights inserted in the air vents of rotors to balance the rotor casting. After many miles and years of rusting, the weight fly's out of the rotor and causes the wheel to shake. Just like a tire out of balance, you can feel this in the steering wheel too. When weird comes into the picture a whole other world of possibilities come into play.
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:12 am
by chas0218
Hey guys, I think I have it figured out.
I replaced a rotted transmission mount on the top but the shaking seem to be more constant at all speeds after replacing. This makes sense after looking at the wear of the rubber against itself. I decided to give the driveshaft and CV shafts another look this time with the transmission in neutral and parking brake on. The driveshaft seemed tight with little to no play, passenger side front and back CV shafts had no play but the driver's side front had a decent amount. Which I think is my problem, the rear driver side had none all similar to the others. I will replace the driver side front CV shaft and go from there.
I was planning on replacing the front motor mount seeing as it is easy to get to but Rock Auto sent me the wrong one, so that will have to wait. The amount of shaking was really impressive at high speeds.
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Mon Apr 22, 2019 7:49 am
by chas0218
Bookworm wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:16 pm
Oh yeah. One other thing that can cause car shake is if the crankshaft comes unbalanced. Had that happen on a minivan. (One of the three vehicles I forget to list, because they were primarily driven by my wife).
With the crank it should be more engine speed related I would think.
jolt wrote: ↑Fri Mar 29, 2019 9:20 pm
You had the front wheel bearings replaced in the past? Check the axle nuts on the front hubs and make sure they are tight. CV joint boots in good shape with no cuts or tears? Jack up one wheel at a time on the front and try spinning the tire back and forth by hand and watch for play in the drive line from the transmission out to the wheel. If you see any play from shaft to shaft in a CV joint, the joint is bad. Did you check the drive shaft joints going to the rear end? If the rear drive shaft joint is bad up by the transfer case/transmission, it may shake the front too. Did you check the motor mounts? Have you serviced the transfer case oil and has that been checked? Have the front struts ever been replaced? Check lower A-frame arm mounting bushings?
I would have said the tire or wheel too but you stated that you have swapped wheels on the car and it still shakes the front so now we are getting out there in search of a weird issue. Another area to explore is the brake rotors. I do not believe that the Vibe used balance weights in the rotors but I have seen rotors with weights inserted in the air vents of rotors to balance the rotor casting. After many miles and years of rusting, the weight fly's out of the rotor and causes the wheel to shake. Just like a tire out of balance, you can feel this in the steering wheel too. When weird comes into the picture a whole other world of possibilities come into play.
You aren't kidding, never had this kind of shake happen in any of my other cars/trucks. The ironic thing is that the boots look perfect no dry cracking, no grease, nothing. Yeah the transfer case, rear diff, and transmission have had fluid changes at 100k and 200k. Transmission I do at 50k increments or as close to it as possible. Replaced struts at 155k, they will need it again in the near future one of my mechanic buddies recommends every 100k or sooner if one goes bad.
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:21 am
by chas0218
I know this is old but the vibe didn't stop shaking but finally have it figured out. The front wheel bearing is shot. I order a new one from rock auto the whole knuckle. Thinking I was set installed it and the freaking tie rod end mounts on the bottom.
My current bearing and knuckle is shot. I live in the rust belt and 250k miles has it looking like something off the titanic.
So this leads ne to my next question is the Camry front knuckle a replacement for the vibe? They look identical from pictures and has the tie rod mating surface on the top. Im going to see if my parts guy can order one in to compare. Anyone know where I can buy a new knuckle with our without the bearing?
I have an AWD so and the moog replacement won't work.
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:04 am
by zbyers
chas0218 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:21 am
I know this is old but the vibe didn't stop shaking but finally have it figured out. The front wheel bearing is shot. I order a new one from rock auto the whole knuckle. Thinking I was set installed it and the freaking tie rod end mounts on the bottom.
My current bearing and knuckle is shot. I live in the rust belt and 250k miles has it looking like something off the titanic.
So this leads ne to my next question is the Camry front knuckle a replacement for the vibe? They look identical from pictures and has the tie rod mating surface on the top. Im going to see if my parts guy can order one in to compare. Anyone know where I can buy a new knuckle with our without the bearing?
I have an AWD so and the moog replacement won't work.
Chas, the Moog bearing listed under an 05 AWD Matrix on RockAuto will work.
With that said, I have both of my AWD knuckles in the garage. Bearings need swapped, but if you wanna come grab them (2-3 hour drive), come get 'em!
Re: Shaking that has me stumped
Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2020 5:20 pm
by chas0218
Thanks but got it figured out and installed. I was pleasantly surprised rock auto was willing to take back the wrong part. Im blown away that they wouldn't make the awd and fwd the same.
Anyway the shaking is gone after almost year and half. I just can't believe there was no whine or grinding coming from that side id the car. I know what a bad wheel bearing sounds limed and replaced the back ones 4 times on one side (bought duralast gold's and just kept getting new bearings for free).
Note to anyone else with the awd vibe, the matrix front knuckle is an exact replacement that parts stores don't know about.