2007 Manual Transmission Issues

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cthomasparr
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:03 pm

2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by cthomasparr »

Hello,

I am considering test driving a 2007 with 5 speed transmission. I was hoping this forum could answer some questions regarding the manual transmission

Are the problems in earlier transmissions still a problem in a 2007?

Is there a way to diagnose during a test drive if you are good, in an early stage, or dead?

What are the fixes for the transmision? Any newer parts fix it? Is it possible for a DIYer with standard tools and patience?

Any other fixes ( swaps from other vehicles ) that make sense?

Thanks!!
jayoldschool
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:04 pm

Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by jayoldschool »

Here's what I've learned...

- yes, still an issue, but apparently the bearing that fails (and destroys the trans) is slightly better in the 05-up 5 speeds
- noise is what to look for. On mine, it would make noise when power was applied, and would lessen when coasting. My trans eventually failed, making horrible noises. The oil that came out was black and chunky.
- the fix is a replacement transmission
- better option is the 6 speed from the GT, and this is the route that I went. Straight bolt in, my car drives much better, the 1-4 gearing makes the car much more enjoyable. 6th is slightly lower (higher revs), so I am going with a taller tire (60 instead of 55) to bring the revs back down a bit. Swap took me 6 hours, using a lift.
cthomasparr
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:03 pm

Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by cthomasparr »

thanks jayodlschool.

I saw a post that repair of a manual trans is difficult and not really a DIY option.

Also saw reference to possibly lengthening the life of the trans with frequent oil changes.

in your experience, how quickly did the destruction progress from the first symptoms? I am a pretty conservative driver, but would be screwed if I got stuck far from home. I would probably opt for swapping out the transmission myself if I could get it home.
jayoldschool
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:04 pm

Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by jayoldschool »

Noise started well under 100k miles, trans lasted another 1.5 years and 10k miles. I knew it was going to go, and I drove it really really gentle. Shifts at or under 3k, no power shifts, no full throttle, under 70mph always. It failed less than a mile from my house, and I limped it in third another 20 miles to work (where I have a full shop).
c3VIBE
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by c3VIBE »

I just bought a 04 with a bad transmission bearing. My suggestion is make sure to take it out on the highway and shift through all of the gears with windows up and no radio and the owner not talking at you (take it out alone). Mine would not make any noises in 1st or 2nd, but in 3rd you could start to hear a whine which got louder in 4th and 5th. If you push the clutch in and it goes away then it is something in the transmission. This car only has 109k miles but I don't know how it was driven.

I saw a few options:
1. Buy reman 5 speed: $2250
2. Buy a used 5 speed with low mileage: $1200 (bad idea, could be shot you have no clue)
3. Buy a used 6 speed and get the right axle and shift knob: $1000
4. Buy a reman 6 speed from MWR with correct 3.9:1 gear ratio: $1850 + shipping
5. Pull my transmission and have it rebuilt: $1000
6. Have transmission shop replace with reman 5 speed: $3200

I opted for 5, I pulled the transmission and had it rebuilt by a well known regional trans. shop, plus rear main, new Luk clutch and flywheel turned. I've only driven about 100 miles so far but it feels solid.
cthomasparr
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:03 pm

Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by cthomasparr »

That's good info. I don't likebthe idea of replacing with a 6 speed because of the increased highway engine rpm. Rebuild of the 5 sounds like a reasonable option. Did you get a sense of the expected lifetime or was there a warranty?
tpollauf
Posts: 4082
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:37 am
Location: Toledo/Oregon, Port Clinton Ohio
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Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by tpollauf »

c3VIBE wrote: 5. Pull my transmission and have it rebuilt: $1000

I opted for 5, I pulled the transmission and had it rebuilt by a well known regional trans. shop, plus rear main, new Luk clutch and flywheel turned. I've only driven about 100 miles so far but it feels solid.
What is the warranty on their work? Seeing that they are a reputable tranny shop, they would certainly know of the issues with these tranny's. In their eyes, do they feel that this rebuilt will out last the original AND not be prone to bearing failure like these are known for? Just curious
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2009 Vibe GT (manual), 2009 G8Gt, 2009 Vibe GT (auto)
2014 Silverado, 2004 Vibe GT

"everything is modifiable"
c3VIBE
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:48 pm

Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by c3VIBE »

What is the warranty on their work? Seeing that they are a reputable tranny shop, they would certainly know of the issues with these tranny's. In their eyes, do they feel that this rebuilt will out last the original AND not be prone to bearing failure like these are known for? Just curious
The shop had seen this transmission bearing failure in the past and has rebuilt many of the c59's, they rebuild for dealerships. The tech told me the transmission is solid, and I did the right thing by not waiting for the bearing to explode and wreck the guts of it. I am expecting this rebuild to last until we part ways at some point in the future. Basically I had to make the best decision given what I had on my hands, cost effective and (fingers crossed) a quality rebuild.

The warranty is a 6 month warranty, which is far less than the transmission shops 18 month warranty. Of course I would have been paying for the same exact reman 5 speed but forking out $3000+. That warranty seems sub par to me but because of their reputation and the fact that the tech who rebuilt it spoke with me directly and he gave me the faulty bearing out of the trans as well I felt comfortable. I was a bit concerned and drove down (1.5 hr. away) to the business planning to feel the place and people out. It was super clean, everything was explained I asked detailed questions and got well explained detailed answers.

I've never written on these websites so I hope I got the quote thing right. :lol:
cthomasparr
Posts: 134
Joined: Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:03 pm

Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by cthomasparr »

Thanks for the info.

I had another question and I think I already know the answer.

I have a tow hitch on my vibe that has an auto transmission. I tow a 4x8 garden trailer every now and then, usually light loads, never trying anything straining in warmer weather. Have an aux trans oil cooler, but didn't install. I had a 95 corolla with a 5 speed and I would tow heavier loads with that in all weather. I didn't worry about transmission overloading or overheating since it was a manual and never had a problem.

Is that a recipe for disaster with the vibe 5 speed transmission or is the failure condition something other than loading? Whenever I tow I am always very gentle on the clutch and shifting, but I need to push a little when in gear to get things moving.
circuitsmith
Posts: 242
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 11:26 pm

Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by circuitsmith »

cthomasparr wrote:I don't likebthe idea of replacing with a 6 speed because of the increased highway engine rpm.
That issue is solved with option #4.
2006 Matrix 5-sp
jayoldschool
Posts: 294
Joined: Mon Aug 04, 2014 6:04 pm

Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by jayoldschool »

The increase in RPM is insignificant, and easily mitigated with a slightly taller tire. Gas mileage is the exact same so far since my swap (I log every tank).

This is with the correct (stock) tire height. It will get taller 205 60 16s next week.

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randomguyother
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2019 8:51 pm

Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by randomguyother »

2006 Vibe that just grenaded the c59 transmission. Bearing at shaft disintegrated and caused all sorts of gear chipping/debris. Just tore it down and replaced all bad parts and installed a rebuild kit. Works fine now. Essential info below.
I worked through toyota for all of my parts and dealer info.

- my main sources:
- general transmission removal: https://www.toyotanation.com/threads/di ... cs.959473/
- general c59 disassembly: http://www.tcorolla.net/overhaul-1203.html
- c59 differential ring removal and install: http://www.tcorolla.net/overhaul-1212.html
- output and input shaft gear pulling and pressing: various youtube videos.
- main culprit: The bearing that looked worst had the following identification on the inner race ("HTF...B25-163Ag") and outer race ("NSK...JAPAN...630Z"). Note that the replacement bearing that came in the rebuild kit was identical. I opted to use a different bearing (totally sealed on both sides, unlike the original) from toyota. I just let the parts department identify the superseding part.
- "Rebuild Kit": Note that there are two very similar kits out on the market. Go to "www.transmissionpartsdistributors.com" and see the difference between their "BK418BWS" and "AWS" kit. A difference of 0.020". Easy to mix up and not everyone offers both kits to choose from. The "BWS" worked for my vibe.
- Advice: Go to friendly dealer. Give them car info. Have them print out all schematics of: internal shafts and gears, differential and bearings, overall trans case. During tear down, identify all parts to replace. Have them identify all toyota part numbers (the numbers in the schematics are the short 6 digit codes that aren't specific enough). Use the real toyota part numbers to buy for 60% the cost using an online toyota parts dealer.
- Advice: Be organized during tear down. Take photos. Ensure all parts are removed and laid down so you know the orientation/order. label all parts against the step number for reference.
- Minimal tools: Press. Various pipes (measure the exact sizes you need to press bearings and gears and order from mcmaster carr. Cut to 6" or 12" lengths.). Inside diameter blind pullers (expand to allow hammer pulling from one side). Outside diameter bearing pullers (various sizes). Bench grinder (you'll need to grind your pullers to fix exactly and be prepared to get replacement pullers). Impact gun to make pullers work better. Clamps to hold pullers in place while using impact gun. Small plate with and without holes to protect pointed tips of pullers when pulling on shaft without a hole.
- Advice: On the differential, I just approximated bearing preload by spinning the differential teeth with a long screwdriver. Did not use a tool in the middle hole.
- Advice: Note that not all bearings are pressed and bottomed out. Read the instructions from toyota above at each step.
- Advice: When the two case halves are sealed and bolted together - you will probably fail to get the two shafts to stick out far enough for the snap rings to be installed. Don't panic. Tap (with wood block) on the input shaft in the bellhousing from below while pulling up on both shafts to get them moved up a little. You don't need to tear it all apart and repress bearings.
- It won't be clear exactly what parts the rebuild kit comes with compared to your toyota part numbers. Plan on sucking up a restocking fee from someone. If you're getting close to a 30-day return window - contact the distributor and get an allowance of time in writing.
- Advice: If you're hammering when you should be pressing during reassembly, you're doing something wrong. Make sure it all gets seated correctly and straight.


My rebuild cost ~$1,300 on trans internals (new shaft, diff ring gear, some gears, and rebuild kit). ~$350 on new clutch and rear main seal.

have fun. don't rush. if something seems too tough - walk away and think on it.
tpollauf
Posts: 4082
Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 11:37 am
Location: Toledo/Oregon, Port Clinton Ohio
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Re: 2007 Manual Transmission Issues

Post by tpollauf »

randomguyother wrote: Thu Dec 26, 2019 8:04 am 2006 Vibe that just grenaded the c59 transmission. Bearing at shaft disintegrated and caused all sorts of gear chipping/debris. Just tore it down and replaced all bad parts and installed a rebuild kit. Works fine now.
Nice work and thanks for the valuable feedback! Very few of us would challenge the work that you took on so kudos to you for successfully repairing your tranny! Hopefully you'll get years of trouble free shifting on your Vibe.
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2009 Vibe GT (manual), 2009 G8Gt, 2009 Vibe GT (auto)
2014 Silverado, 2004 Vibe GT

"everything is modifiable"
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