Outside mirror mods - Turn signals, heating, etc.

[the_nite_owl]

I would like to hear about what others are doing with their outside mirrors.First of all, take a look at this link. Has anyone seen this in use?http://www.kwmuth.com/products/kits/200-0056.htmSeems to be a nice way to add in external signals.Anyone know of other products for this? Replacement mirrors?I am about to begin the project of converting my mirrors to heated mirrors. I should be getting the Burco Redi Heat elements this afternoon.My intention is to use a heat gun and gentle pressure to remove the existing mirror then attach the heating element to the backside of the mirror, run the wiring through and reattach the mirror.I plan on using a relay attached to the defroster switch to relay 12v from the fuse box to the heater elements so I do not overdraw power on the defroster circuit.Anyone know if there are any open circuits at the fuse box or will I have to run my own line from the battery?Any other mods going?Anyone play around with putting LEDs behind the mirror and removing silvering to get it to shine through?

[ragingfish]

Quote, originally posted by the_nite_owl »I would like to hear about what others are doing with their outside mirrors.First of all, take a look at this link. Has anyone seen this in use?http://www.kwmuth.com/products/kits/200-0056.htmSeems to be a nice way to add in external signals.Anyone know of other products for this? Replacement mirrors?Surface-mount adhesive arrows...the ebay special.Quote »I am about to begin the project of converting my mirrors to heated mirrors. I should be getting the Burco Redi Heat elements this afternoon.My intention is to use a heat gun and gentle pressure to remove the existing mirror then attach the heating element to the backside of the mirror, run the wiring through and reattach the mirror.I plan on using a relay attached to the defroster switch to relay 12v from the fuse box to the heater elements so I do not overdraw power on the defroster circuit.Anyone know if there are any open circuits at the fuse box or will I have to run my own line from the battery?no unused circuits. run your own power.

[the_nite_owl]

I started my heated mirror mod last night.I removed the passenger side mirror, removed glass from backing plate, cleaned it up, cut the mirror element to fit, made holes through the backing plate to feed connectors through and put it back together.I have not run any wiring to the mirror yet, that will be the next phase. My goal last night was to determine how to safely remove the backing plate from the mirror housing without breaking anything, how to remove the mirror glass from the backing plate and how to make the heating element fit.All went well.Now that I know the process I will photo document the mod as I do the driver mirror and eventually post a complete how-to.If it were easier to do, I would have liked to find a way to put in turn signals as I went but the heating element would have to be cut for each LED and it's layout does not accomodate that well. If I find an element that has a more conducive layout for this it might be a good future mod.It would be a simple enough thing to drill holes through the backing plate for the LEDs to shine through and then they would be visible THROUGH the glass instead of on top.Or perhaps some surface mount LEDs could sandwitch between the heating element and mirror but that gets a lot trickier to assemble.

[northvibe]

YAH!! someone got the heated mirrors working

[the_nite_owl]

Well, not working exactly, just have the elements installed. Have to run wiring to them still but that should not be a big deal. I have to figure out where I will be pulling power from and will wire a relay from the defroster switch to trigger the mirrors at the same time.I hope to have it all completed this weekend.

[northvibe]

bah, well ur close enough if you got the mirror off then back on, that was the problem before.

[ragingfish]

I didn't think anyone could get this far, so I'm definitely intrigued to see how this one fares...Might be a worthy mod on the new car...

[the_nite_owl]

Removing and replacing the mirror was the tough part as I had no idea how it was attached internally.With some careful examination I figured out how to remove it and once you know how it is not too difficult to do.The mirror backing plate attaches with three snap in connectors coming form the motor. The center pivot is the largest and then there are two smaller ones, one on the top and one to the inside that are the actual positioners. If you turn the mirror all the way to the inside and up then both positioners are pushed back into the motor housing and you have a larger gap on the bottom right corner to see into. You can gently pry outward and slightly upward, working your hand further in so that you run less risk of bending and cracking the mirror and the backing plate will pop off of the large center pivot ball.At that point you are still connected to the two positioner arms but you have a lot more room now as the mirror swings further out from the housing.The positioners are rods that push out from the motor housing. They attach to the backing plate the same way the pivot ball does, just by having a round end pushed into a round socket and they are only snapped into place. The trick is to not PULL them out as you could pull them right out of the motor or bend/break the shaft.At this point though you have plenty of room to reach in with a flat bladed screwdriver and placing it between the end of the shaft and the backing plate you can twist the screwdriver so that it pushes the backing plate away from the shaft causing it to pop out of it's socket without pulling on the positioner shaft.If you do the top one first then you can pivot the mirror down to give yourself more room to do the same to the inside positioner.ragingfish, you said that yours was never right again after having had it apart once before. If the positioner is not broken it could just be that when putting the backing plate back on the ball on the end of the positioner did not snap back into the backing plate so it does not work to pull on the mirror. You may be able to push the mirror back onto the positioner and snap it back into place.When I put mine back together I first centered it and pushed it back onto the large center pivot ball then pushed it to the inside center to snap back onto the inside positioner then up centered to snap onto the top positioner.Once you have done it it seems relatively easy but it made me nervous as hell the first time.

[ragingfish]

I might play with it to see if I can fix it before I trade it...I gotta believe it's not broken, just reinstalled wrong. Would be a sad story if a mirror broke that easily on this car. Thanks for the tips.

[the_nite_owl]

OK, took a closer look last night.On both sides of the car the positioners are top and left.Each positioner has a rounded head that snaps into the backing plate but it also has two ridges that have to fit into slots on the backing plate. The top positioner has to have those ridges aligned up and down, the side positioner has to have the ridges going side to side.If they are not turned in the right direction then you will not be able to snap the backing plate back onto the positioners.When yours was worked on one or both of those positioner shafts may have turned a little bit so that the ridges were not lined up any longer and this would prevent the mirror from snapping back in place.Once you get a good look at them you will the forehead smack and say "Of course!"Once they are lined up, push the mirror in the direction of that positioner until the positioner bottoms out inside the motor, then you can apply just enough pressure to snap it back onto the positioner.Make note of the location of the positioners behind the mirror so you can put pressure in the right area and be careful not to flex the mirror as they will break easily.Quote, originally posted by ragingfish »I might play with it to see if I can fix it before I trade it...I gotta believe it's not broken, just reinstalled wrong. Would be a sad story if a mirror broke that easily on this car. Thanks for the tips.

[zionzr2]

yea!!!!! Now i can have a how to for heated mirrors!!! I'm very very happy!!!where do i get the element how much???

[the_nite_owl]

Quote, originally posted by zionzr2 »yea!!!!! Now i can have a how to for heated mirrors!!! I'm very very happy!!!where do i get the element how much???The elements are Burco Redi Heat.http://www.burcoinc.comThey do not sell them directly but you can look up local dealers.There were two glass shops in my town that were vendors for Burco so it was no problem.There are a few different generic elements. 3801 is 3-1/4" high by 5-3/4" long.3804 is 6" high by 7 1/4" long.I thought that given the dimensions the 3804 would fit our mirrors the best with the most coverage. But I had to do some fancy cutting and positioning of the element to make it fit. The shape of the element was much different than I expected and nothing like the ones showed in the images on their web site.I think if I were to do it again I would go with the 3801.The price on the 3801 through the glass shop in my area was around $10. (or maybe $15. I do not remember for certain) While the price on the 3804 was around $25.The element has two male spade connectors coming off the back for you to connect to power. I had to locate these in a position where I could put holes through the backing plate for them to come through that would not interfere with anything inside the mirror housing. I had to do so much cutting of the 3804 to make it fit that I do not know if it will lose some of it's effectiveness or not. The 3801 will probably be a better choice and cheaper to boot.I have not been able to get pictures of how the 3801 is laid out but it was recommended for use with our mirrors.

[mcgusto82]

i am also VERY interested in doing this also. if i may. when locating a switch. i would recommend adding a switch on the driver's window panel. most oem systems have a seperate switch located in said position. would make it look clean and like it belongs there. another note. the turn signals.. i would defenately go with the outside blinkers rather than the mirror mounted LED's. if you position them just right. (underneath housing) you can have visual from the front and the rear. that way, they can fulfill their porpuse and improve visibility. not just a mod.i'll be getting to do this as soon as find employment.

[the_nite_owl]

I have thought about mount under types of signals but have not seen anything available. I considered making my own but have not come up with a good way to house them and if I went with a horizontal strip of LEDs I would want to make them sequential flashers.Another approach would be to drill LED recesses into the underside of the mirror so that just the heads of the LED's stick out and wiring would be inside the mirror.Plenty of ways to do it, just a matter of making time and figuring out which approach works for me.

[mcgusto82]

autozone does have strips of moldable turn signal lights.

[jeffgtx]

this is awesome... i hope you post some pics...if we could add dimming with this, i would be in mirro heaven.

[ColonelPanic]

Wow, that's such an awesome project, and much congratulations on making it work out. The wiring part will be easy in comparison to the things you've just accomplished. I've *bleeped* and moaned about not having heated mirrors for I don't know how long. If I can find the stuff to do it, I may tear into mine too. I'm way beyond the point where I'm worried about breaking things on this car, as I've already been doing that here lately. I have wanted some LED turn signals on the mirrors too, but I didn't want any of the stick-on variety. I don't want to sacrifice mirror real estate for blinky blinky things. I've looked all over for a small strip I could mount to the bottom of the mirror horizontally but never found anything. I saw some SUV, I think it was a Ford of some description, with a strip of LED's built into the bottom of the mirror about a year ago, that's what got me interested in this concept. Sequential would be even better, but I'd be happy with what I could get. I'll keep looking, and if you ever run into anything, let me know.Congrats again, and thanks for sharing this with us.

[the_nite_owl]

I have installed the elements onto both mirrors and just have to do the electrical wiring to them.My remote starter arrived and I will have to begin installing that this weekend so I will run wiring for the mirrors at the same time.Once I have completed the wiring I will put together a How-To for the project. I have been taking pictures as I go so should be able to put together a good explanation of the process. It will take time to go through the photos, resize them and determine which ones to use then put together the instructions but they will be coming.

[zionzr2]

i was just quoted a price of $23 for each element from a local glass delaer that can order these....He said that the hardest part is going to be getting the mirror out without snaping it. But after that its really easy to install one wire to ground and the other to your defroster wire. so that the defroster switch controls it.The hope the how to will let me easily remove the mirror without breaking it!

[the_nite_owl]

The mirrors are not too difficult to remove you just have to work at them slowly.You CAN remove the glass from the backing plate without first removing the backing plate from the mirror. It's a toss up as to which is eaier to do. I removed the mirror glass by using a heat gun and slowly heating the glass. As the glass heats up it softens the double sided sticky foam that holds it onto the plastic backing plate. I used a razor blade to get between the lip of the plastic backing plate and the mirror glass to gently lift up on the glass as I heated it. I moved around the glass a little at a time lifting the glass and separating it from the foam holding it. This has to be done gradually because if you pry up on one end of the glass too hard it WILL crack and the amount of force needed to crack it is less than you would expect.It is important that while heating the glass you are aiming the heat gun (A hair dryer will suffice if you do not have a heat gun) inwards towards the glass from the edge so that the hot air is not blowing directly on the plastic edges. You can easily melt the plastic with the high heat. So just use the heat gun on low, keep it aimed away from the edge of the plastic and move it around constantly so that the whole thing heats up evenly.You can remove the glass while the backing plate is still attached to the car or remove the backing plate and then the glass.The backing plate attaches in the center of the mirror on a large ball pivot. On the top center and left center are positioner shafts that change the angle of the mirror. These snap into the backing plate the same way the center ball pivot does. These are easy to remove as long as you are careful.Both driver and passenger side mirrors have the positioners on the top and left, they are not opposite one side to the other.To remove the backing plate you need to push the mirror all the way in on the left hand side so that you can get your hand in underneath the mirror on the right. Reach in as far as possible so that when you are pulling on the backing plate you are doing so from as close in to the middle as possible so that you decrease the chance of bending the plate and cracking the mirror.The plate is held in the center so prying the backing plate from the right to the left will pop it off of the ball pivot. Just make sure you are bracing yourself so that you do not yank it right out of the mirror. You just want to pry it far enough to pop it off the pivot.Once you have it off the center pivot you can detach it from the positioners. You can pull the mirror out far enough that you can see in to the positioner and reach in with a flat screwdriver and use it to pop the positioner out of it's hole on the backing plate then do the same with the other one, or you can gently pry out from the top center until the positioner shaft pops out of the motor and then do the same on the left side.The positioners will go right back into the motor though it may take you a couple of CAREFUL tries to do it. They have a bit of resistance going in and are covered in grease so keeping them lined up while putting enough pressure on them to pop them back into place is a little tricky but I have done it several times.All in all you are better off if you can separate the backing plate from the positioners leaving them in the motor.When putting the backing plate back onto the car you want to first set the positioners correctly. You want to make sure the positioners are attached to the motor first, do not try to have them attached to the backing plate and push them into the motor, they move around too much and you might damage one.The positioners have rounded heads on them but they have little plastic ridges on two sides of the ball that have to be lined up with notches in the backing plate. The top one should have the ridges straight up and down and the left should be going left/right.Put the backing plate against the center pivot and push it back onto the pivot ball until it snaps into place. You will need to put almost all the pressure on the center. If you push too much on either end you could flex the glass too much and crack it.Once the center pivot is in place you work on snapping the positioners into their sockets. Push the mirror all the way to the left. It will push the positioner all the way down into the motor until it hits bottom then you can press on the area of glass directly above the positioner until it pops into it's socket. Then push the mirror back to center and then all the way up to pop the top positioner into place.I have pictures and want to write up a detailed How To, just have to get some time to go through all the pictures and decide which ones to use.As for the heating elements, I used the Burco RediHeat 3804. It however was tricky to position and cut to fit the mirror correctly.I am told that the 3801 will fit better but they were backordered when I was trying to get them. They list a lot cheaper than the 3804 though.To wire the elements up I ran a power line from the battery into the car, put an inline fuse on it and ran it through an automotive relay.I attached power and ground to the relay from the wires on the back of the rear window defogger switch. So when I push the defogger switch on it triggers the relay turning power on to mirrors as well without drawing much power from the defogger circuit and overloading it. This also means after the defogger time runs out or the ignitions is turned off that the mirrors shut off also.More details to come but I figured you might want to get started before it gets too cold and I might be a week or two before I get the How To written up.

[zionzr2]

thank you so much for "part one" I really want to do this I kinda wish i had a place i could do work... in my apartment parking lot its not the most conducesive to get projects done!I'm just worried about breaking something! the wiring should pose no problem for me as long as i know what wires to conect and where to find them.i also want to add the turns as well should be easy to do once i get the mirror out. will also need to know what wires to get to.

[the_nite_owl]

There are two wires on the bottom of the connector to the rear defogger switch. Both wires have 12v when the switch is NOT pressed but when you do press the switch one wire goes down to less than 1 volt. You would connect the always 12v wire to one side of your relay coil and the other wire to the other side of the relay coil. Then when the defogger switch is pressed the new relay throws also. You would run one 12v line from the battery (through a fuse for safety) to the relay input and run two lines from the relay output, one to each mirror.I ran the ground wire for the mirror heater directly to the door using a ring connector under one of the power window motor bolts.The real trick was getting the wire from the car into the door. Inside the car the hole going out to the rubber tube connecting to the door is kind of recessed and the tube drops at kind of a steep angle. Simply trying to push the wire through is not likely to work.What I did was use a piece of solid copper wire. I pulled a length of the ground wire out of a piece of Romex (household A/C wire).I bent one end of that wire into a very small loop. This helps prevent any sharp edge on the wire so it does not bind up inside the tube or tear the rubber and once you get it through the tube you have something to hook your wires onto to pull them back through.I started inside the door pushing into the car. It was easier to work from the door side than underneath the dash. As you push the wire through the rubber tube you can pull back/push foward a bit if you get stuck and eventually you will get through. Try to work at the TOP of the tube so you do not end up going THROUGH the bundle of wires already in there, that might bind things up too tightly on you.You can also see your progress as the rubber tube moves where the wire is pushing through. You can bend the wire a bit right inside the tube to get it going where you need it to go more easily.Once you get through into the car the wire is still inside a recess of the body. I had to use a flashlight to see it and then reach in with a pair of needle nose pliers to grab hold and pull it through the hole.To make things easier bringing the wires back through the door, I stripped the ends of all the wires going through, looped them through the loop I made in the end of the solid wire and back down then soldered the bared stranded wire back to itself. This made the connection much stronger than if I had tied or taped it so it is a lot less likely to pull off while tugging the wires through the tube and it let me cut the extra wire off the end so it was smooth with no sharp edges or doubled up thicknesses of wire. This sounds confusing. Think of it like this. I essentially made the ends of the stranded wires into a loop through the loop of the solid copper wire. The solder holds the loop closed on the stranded wire since it is not stiff enough to stay bent on it's own.Then you just slowly pull the copper wire back out through the door pulling the new wires through the tube as you go.When you get to the mirror you have a similar problem. There is a rubber tube going into the mirror that the wires feed through and it is a little tight. There was room to run my two wires for the mirror through but on the inside of the mirror it squeezes down tight and I had trouble getting through. I used the same trick with the solid copper wire to fish the other wires through. To do this I unhooked the wire harness inside the mirror from the plastic tab it loops under so I could pull it straight. I unplugged it from inside the door also and then pulled the harness straight so I could go through easier.As far as working in the parking lot, I did all my work in the driveway.The only effective difference is that I do not feel like the neighbors are staring at me wondering what the hell I am doing, mostly because I own the house and do not care what they think. It's really just a matter of perspective. Anyway, the most dissassembly you are doing is removing your door panel so the car is still driveable. Not like you tore the engine down out there and need time to get it back together. Quote, originally posted by zionzr2 »thank you so much for "part one" I really want to do this I kinda wish i had a place i could do work... in my apartment parking lot its not the most conducesive to get projects done!I'm just worried about breaking something! the wiring should pose no problem for me as long as i know what wires to conect and where to find them.i also want to add the turns as well should be easy to do once i get the mirror out. will also need to know what wires to get to.

[L5K]

I can't seem to track down the Burco heating elements anywhere but Ebay and the guy there wants 25 bucks each. Also, have any of you actually driven at night with those mirror that point at the driver? I can't stand them. Plus, if you ever have to drive with your four ways on you get a nice flashing on each mirror the ENTIRE time. I love the turn signals on the outside front of the mirrors that certain models of car have.

[hax3]

I have an 05 vibe and would like to install heated mirrors. I'm reading through the instructions and have a question regarding electrical wiring - note that the only work I've done on my vibe is to replace the head unit. So I apologize in advance if this is a stupid question. I'm trying to fully understand the steps before buying any parts and taking apart the car I understand from the above instructions that the defogger switch has 2 wires - the power and ground. Without any mod, where do these wires connect to? Do these wires already have the correct connectors/plug to connect to the relay switch?As for powering the relay switch, can install an add-a-circuit in the fuse and connect the relay switch to this for power? Do the add-a-switch already have the correct plug/connector for the relay?I have just a base 05 with all manual door locks and windows (which I would like to eventually make power via another DIY post here - if I get the heated power working I might get the confidence to tackle these mods!) - I read somewhere about the fuse labeled GAUGE which is for power door/window/sunroof/cruise. Since I don't have any of these, I can tap into this with the add-a-circuit for the heated mirror and may future power door/window.hope this makes sense.

[09VibeAWD]

My 2009 Vibe has a loose driver's side rear view mirror. As in the mirror itself, not the housing, jiggles and vibrates when driving, especially on rough roads. The power adjustments still work fine, no functionality issues. Does anyone here have a knowledge of the inside of the 09 model's mirrors? If it's a simple "snap-back-into-place" job then I'd like to know if I can expect a similar setup to the above postings.Thanks!

[tpollauf]

If you can be a bit patient (another week or two) I'll be tearing into mine and will have an exact "step by step" procedure on opening them up. I know other GM mirrors "snap" into a round base which has a clip-like anchor which holds the mirror in place. This is part of my mods list for 2012 as posted here http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=45930

[09VibeAWD]

Sounds great! Thanks

[areles]

Tim,

Are you still making the LED third taillight for sale?

How about any of these?

2. LED drivers & passenger side mirrors. These will include: park/running indicators, sequential turn/hazzard indicators, brake lights & puddle lamps. White, amber & red will be the colors involved. All this attached to the bottom of the stock mirrors.
3. modify/lower overhead storage compartment in the 09-10 Vibes with sunroof. This will be rather easy and then maybe a pair of my sunglasses will actually fit up there
4. LED dome lighting to fit above mod.
5. Door panel LED "soft lighting". Ever need to see a switch on the door panel when driving at night and you lucky to be able to see the "auto" button to one of the power windows Anyways I plan on installing very low lit led's to shine onto the complete area of switches. This way you'll be able to see them and hit the correct button immediately6
6. GT models only. Side "GT" indicator where the fake black plastic grille is currently located on the rocker panel near the rear tire. It will be illuminated (more LED's of course) in park/running mode AND flash when turning that direction.
7. GT models only. Front WHITE additional running lights in the front bumper of the GT. To fit int he fake vent port on each end of the bumper.
8. Gt models only. Additional amber park & turn lighting to go into the very bottom vents in the GT bumper.

I've missed basically a year (2011) and it's been hard to catch up.

Thanks, Ron

[tpollauf]

Tim,

Are you still making the LED third taillight for sale?

YES. In fact I have TWO "VIBE GT" and THREE "PONTIAC" 3rd brake lights started on my bench and I plan on getting a couple of them done in time for the Erir meet so they will be available for anyone interested in them. These are for the 09-10 Vibes only

6. GT models only. Side "GT" indicator where the fake black plastic grille is currently located on the rocker panel near the rear tire. It will be illuminated (more LED's of course) in park/running mode AND flash when turning that direction.

This mod should be an easy one and again, I'd like to get it done in time for the Erie meet

7. GT models only. Front WHITE additional running lights in the front bumper of the GT. To fit int he fake vent port on each end of the bumper.

I actually started on this mod TWO years ago and never got it done for the Indy meet. Time to get back on it so it too can be done for the Erie meet. One thing GOOD about having an annual car meet is that it forces you to get things done to your ride that you've been putting off