2009 1.8 WARM Start Brief Rattle (Not Cold) 161k

[DocDoug]

Original owner. My 2009 Vibe, manual transmission, 1.8 has a brief warm start rattle since 158,000 miles. She currently has 161,000 miles.

Oil changed at 1,000 miles then every 5,000 miles with 5w20 synthetic oil and new filter each time.

I am familiar with the COLD start rattle but my Vibe does this on the WARM start. Its probably the intake timing gear assembly going bad... but before I change this, I wanted to ask if others had this problem on the WARM start? When cold, it is completely normal and quiet. The sound is similar to the first start, after an oil change, while the oil is making its way to the valve train to quiet the hydraulic valve tappets.

No, it is not the 2009 notorious starter problem. I dealt with that 20,000 miles ago.

Any comments are appreciated!

Thanks! Doug

[lexicon]

What is a Warm start?
When you start up, the engine is cold, takes minutes to come to temp and car is then at appropriate temperature.
How long does the noise last?


Long shot.... loose bolt holding an alternator, A/C compressor/Exhaust manifold etc etc, that warms up and then does not make the noise.
Get a stethoscope and probe areas around the engine to locate where the noise is..... (and of course, be careful around the belts as you probe)
Let us know what you find
Good luck

[joatmon]

I think of a warm start as a scenario such as driving to a gas station far enough for the engine to come up to temp, turning the engine off to fill up the tank, then starting it again to continue driving, where the pause isn't long enough for the engine to completely cool down.

can't help with the rattle though, hope its something easy

[DocDoug]

What is a Warm start?
When you start up, the engine is cold, takes minutes to come to temp and car is then at appropriate temperature.
How long does the noise last?


Long shot.... loose bolt holding an alternator, A/C compressor/Exhaust manifold etc etc, that warms up and then does not make the noise.
Get a stethoscope and probe areas around the engine to locate where the noise is..... (and of course, be careful around the belts as you probe)
Let us know what you find
Good luck

In my case, there is a 90% chance, during a warm start, that my engine will make the noise. I consider a "warm start" anytime my engine is started and the engine coolant temperature is not buried in the bottom cold zone.... in other words, after the car sits for 5 hours or more with an ambient temperature of 75' outside, I would no longer consider that a warm start. For the first start of the day, a cold start, my car will NEVER make the sound. If I drive a few miles, shut the engine off and restart before the engine cools (within 5 hours), it WILL most always make the noise.

What exactly is the noise? If you are familiar with the first start following the drain and refill of your oil and filter, you know the sound. Its the brief sound of the valve train clatter before oil gets to the upper end of the engine.

The sound lasts approximately two seconds and immediately quiets. The sound occurs with both 0W20 and 5W20 synthetic oil. I have always used the Toyota, Denso and Purolator oil filter elements. All make the noise.

Good idea on the possibility of a loose bolt. Unlikely... but I have nothing to lose and will give that a look.

I will post back in a few days.

Thanks!

[lexicon]

Invest in a good car stethoscope to try to locate the location of the noise....
so, if the engine is stopped for a few minutes , like to go into a store and get back in 10 minutes, it makes no noise....?

[DocDoug]

Invest in a good car stethoscope to try to locate the location of the noise....
so, if the engine is stopped for a few minutes , like to go into a store and get back in 10 minutes, it makes no noise....?

Yes, going into a store and returning to the vehicle and starting the vehicle 10 minutes later WILL make the noise. "Warm restart" If the car sat for five hours and the engine cooled down, more than likely the vehicle would not make the noise.

I have been turning wrenches for 40 years and am stumped on this one. I hate to throw parts at a repair but I may be close to doing that. I threw a new timing chain tensioner (Toyota / OEM) at this last month with no change at all. Oil check valve could be going bad? Maybe the intake VVT-I timing gear... but I would expect the noise COLD too? (With 161k on a 2009, and having not replaced the VVT-I timing gear by now, this is rare. The 2009 is KNOWN for this problem.) I am the original owner and babied this vehicle since new. I am THAT guy whose friends want to buy his used cars.

I will try to record the sound soon and post to YouTube and share.