Avital Remote Starter

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runningslow
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Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

I have had an Avital 4103LX in my closet for a year and a half

I've seen several posts on the forum about installing a remote starter. So, through videos and various posts, I pretty much know where to connect all the wires and the process of how to mount the components.

What I don't have is confidence that I know there right wires to connect. Could somebody with experience with these things confirm my plan. I've pieced together a Google Sheet, based on the Bulldog wiring diagram and the applicable wires from the Avital Diagram on the far right.

I've also attached a picture of the Avital Wiring Connecction sheet. (It says 4103LX on the box, but it came with 4105 chart?)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Avital_4105_QuickRef1.jpg
Avital_4105_QuickRef1.jpg (112.97 KiB) Viewed 7785 times
EDIT: Updated link to spreadsheet.
Last edited by runningslow on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
Josh
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

If I don't mention it, it looks fine...

1. you can catch your 12 VOLT CONSTANT in the ignition column of your car. It will be a WHITE heavy gauge wire and will test +12v at all times.
2. your PARKING LIGHTS can be caught one of 2 places. Either in the kick or at the switch. Just make sure the jumper on the 4103 is set to the proper polarity.
3. You have TYPE B door locks, so you don't need to worry about the LOCK MOTOR WIRE.
4. Your HORN is optional and not necessary to operate.

Also, one thing you left out. You will need to ground the NEUTRAL SAFETY SWITCH of the 4103 or the unit will not remote start.

Lemme know if you have any other questions.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

Thank you!

I'll be sure to ask if I have any questions as I get into the install. I'm not sure yet if it will be this afternoon or next weekend.

I'm also realizing that I should have made the Sheet in my normal Google account, not my Google Apps account. It complicated the sharing process.
Josh
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

Is the attached diagram the proper way to attach the relay to pop the hatch glass with the trunk release output? (Negative trunk pop output)
Do I even need the relay? (I presume so, if the Bulldog instructions call for it.)

So, For the Parking lights, I just need to splice into one of the two locations and make sure the jumper for polarity matches the wire I choose? The Avital Main Harness, 9 White wire says (+/-) Light Flash Output, so I guess that makes sense.

Neutral Safety Switch Input (Remote Start, 5-pin, 1 Black/White) just needs to go to ground? I currently have that wire called out as tapping into the lock motor wire, because I swear I saw that done somewhere else on this forum... (looking again, I am probably wrong.)

Not sure what else I need at this point. I'm on the fence with the horn, though I'll probably hate myself if I do connect it.
Attachments
14301_900_5-WIRE TRUNK RELEASE DIAGRAM.pdf
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

Wow, there's a lot going on with that relay diagram. Honestly, you shouldn't need a relay. If it's being pulsed ground, that means there's already an OEM relay that converts it to +12v to the glass-release motor in the hatch. So, you should just be able to take the red/white of the 4103 directly spliced to the blue/white on the car.

For your parking lights, what you said is correct. Just catch the wire wherever is easiest for you to get to then just make sure polarity is set correctly on the 4103.

As far the the neutral-safety switch, honestly the correct way is to hook it up to the wire that goes ground while the vehicle is in park. That way the car can't start if it's in gear. But in all my years of installing, I've never once hooked it up like that. Reason being, the only way to get the vehicle into gear, is to press on the brake peddle. And as long as you have the +12v brake shutdown wire connected, it will kill the remote start. So, to make wiring easier, I always grounded it at the same spot I grounded the main ground.

The horn is a personal preference, but I've never found I needed/wanted it.

Edit:
Just realized why there was so much going on with that relay diagram. That's for a 5-wire truck release. I didn't even know such a thing existed.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

Ha. Well, I found that diagram by searching for information on how to use the bulldog 775 relay to pop a trunk. I'll take your word for it that isn't needed.

The weather isn't too favourable this morning for my install, so I'm keeping an eye on the weather.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

runningslow wrote:Ha. Well, I found that diagram by searching for information on how to use the bulldog 775 relay to pop a trunk. I'll take your word for it that isn't needed.

The weather isn't too favourable this morning for my install, so I'm keeping an eye on the weather.
The easy way to test is to go ahead and tap your blue/white hatch release wire on the car. Before hooking it up to the red/white of the 4103, take it and touch any grounded part of the car. It should release.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

So frustrated. I swear everything is connected correctly.

Main harness, 9-Pin
1-6 not connected.
7 - pops trunk when grounded (no relay needed)
8 - grounded
9 - I accidentally blew fuse, but its wired to the green/white at the switch. I accidentally hit it with my + probe when testing. How would I actually test this? Continuity with ground when parking lights on?

Door lock, 3-Pin
Voltage drops to 0 on appropriate when actuated by key in the door.

Remote start, 6-pin
All wires connected and appropriate readings at the harness.

Satellite harness, 4-pin
Not connected

Remote Start, 5-pin
1 - grounded
2 - AC reading at idle
3 - loses continuity to ground when brake pressed
4-5 Not connected.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

Lets start with the basics. First off, the 4103 should come pre-programmed to the remotes, so it's doubtful it's that...

Does the 4103 make ANY NOISE at all when pressing the lock/unlock buttons? You should hear the relay inside the unit clicking once (lock) or twice (unlock). If not, then you don't have either main +12v power or ground correct.

For the parking lights, if you're using the (-)green/white wire, then if you ground it out, it should turn on the parking lights if you have the correct wire. Vice versa if you go for the (+)green wire. If you touch the green wire to +12v then it should turn on the parking lights.

Door locks should be +12v at rest, then like you said, will drop to 0v when actuated by the key. Again, if you have the correct wire, if you ground it out will either lock or unlock the doors.

4-pin satellite harness is useless. Throw it away.

+brown brake shutdown wire should be connected to the wire that goes +12v when you press on the brake.

If by some chance it didn't come pre-programmed at the factory, you can always look in the guide on how to program them. It's a pretty simple process.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

I get zero response from the system. Period. No clicking. No lights. Ground continuity tests positive and I have +12v on both constant 12V lines.

I grounded my white wire for the parking lights. Lights came on and the "headlights on, no key" buzzer sounded until I pulled the inline fuse on the white wire.

Door locks work when wires ground.

Brown brake wire get 12V when brake is pressed.

I don't get any response when I try to follow the programming instructions.

Is this thing DOA? Did I inadvertently fry it by connecting something wrong initially?
Josh
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

OK, then let's start from the beginning. I hate to ask this of ya, but disconnect everything EXCEPT your ground (#8, 9-pin) and +12v (red, 6-pin). with only those 2 connected, you should have at least SOME response (relay clicking inside unit ) when pressing lock/unlock on the keypad. If not, the unit is either DOA or something happened along the way.

I see you're in Dallas. I'm a short 6 hours away in Hutchinson, KS. If you can make it here today, I can personally help you figure it out. :mrgreen:
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

If I didn't have to work tomorrow... I would actually take you up on that.

At the moment, family plans getting in the way of further troubleshooting. I'll either pick it back up later tonight or tomorrow evening.

Thank you so much for your help.
Josh
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

SlammedNiss wrote:OK, then let's start from the beginning. I hate to ask this of ya, but disconnect everything EXCEPT your ground (#8, 9-pin) and +12v (red, 6-pin). with only those 2 connected, you should have at least SOME response (relay clicking inside unit ) when pressing lock/unlock on the keypad. If not, the unit is either DOA or something happened along the way.

I see you're in Dallas. I'm a short 6 hours away in Hutchinson, KS. If you can make it here today, I can personally help you figure it out. :mrgreen:
Maybe I can rig something up and just connect it straight to the battery or piggy back off the harnesses for this test, without disconnecting anything..... otherwise, this will be a huge PITA. At least I used wire taps, instead of soldering wires, so taking them off won't be so bad, if I go that route.

If it turns out to be DOA, maybe I can snag a cheap unit off ebay or something and just leave all the other wiring in place. I don't want to fork up any more cash to replace it, but I'm in this deep. I might as well finish the job.

What are the chances I fried it? Is that easy to do?
Josh
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

I connected the ground and both 12V constant lines directly to the battery. No response from the unit.

So, I'm guessing its DOA or got fried. :evil: :oops:
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

runningslow wrote:
SlammedNiss wrote:What are the chances I fried it? Is that easy to do?
There are inline fuses on anything that has incoming power, so I don't think it would be easy to do. Honestly, if you replace the unit, I'd still recommend starting fresh with the wiring, starting first with your main ignition wires + ground. Then testing after every time you hook up another wire. That way if it all of a sudden doesn't respond you know what wire to change.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

I'm working on the assumption the unit is dead. I've found another on eBay pretty cheap, so we'll see in a few days. I'll test it with minimal wiring first. :P
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

So, either I now have two DOA units... or I'm doing something wrong. I prefer to think its the latter.

What is the bare minimum that needs to be connected to get signs of life (relay clicking when lock/unlock pressed)?
Ground, power, antenna. Anything else? Please be explicit, exact pins.

The only thing in the box that I haven't touched (apart from satellite harness and hood pin) is a toggle switch, which I had thought is simply intended to be wired in-line with something else (neutral safety?) to activate/deactivate the system.
Josh
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

runningslow wrote:So, either I now have two DOA units... or I'm doing something wrong. I prefer to think its the latter.

What is the bare minimum that needs to be connected to get signs of life (relay clicking when lock/unlock pressed)?
Ground, power, antenna. Anything else? Please be explicit, exact pins.

The only thing in the box that I haven't touched (apart from satellite harness and hood pin) is a toggle switch, which I had thought is simply intended to be wired in-line with something else (neutral safety?) to activate/deactivate the system.
Red out of the 6 pin goes to +12v constant, black out of 9 pin needs to go to ground. Plug one end of the antenna wire into the 4103 and plug the other end into the antenna receiver. From there you should hear the internal relay for the parking lights click when pressing lock/unlock on the keypad.

If anything, test by touching the wires directly to the battery in the car.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by ktmsd999 »

Didn't want to start a new post since the diagram is the same as mine, I thought this would be the best place.

I'm installing a 4105 in a 2009 Base Vibe with a 2.4L. I've searched a lot of sites and am pretty certain I have all the circuits identified correctly.

The lock and unlock buttons on the remotes activate the door locks just fine.

When I hit the remote start button, my vehicle unlocks (1st issue) and then the ignition is activated and the entire dash comes alive. It appears as though it's trying to "start" the car, but it's not activating the vehicle Starter circuit (2nd issue). It tries this 3 times and then locks the doors and shuts down.

I hooked up the 3 pin connector (door lock (Green) /unlock (Blue))
to the Purple (power lock) driver kick, white 18 pin connector, pin #16 and
to the Tan (power unlock) driver kick, white 18 pin connector, pin #15
and
the 9 pin connector - factory alarm disarm (light green black) and factory alarm rearm (green/white)
to the Pink (factory alarm disarm) - driver kick, white 18 pin connector, pin #6
to the Black (factory alarm arm) - driver kick, white 18 pin connector, pin #7

Not sure if the above is affecting the unlocking during remote start or not.

For the starter circuit, I only connected the Purple wire from the 6 pin connector (output to starter circuit) to the large gauge Black wire in the ignition switch connector.

I haven't put a probe on this black wire to see if it's getting any signal or not.

Any ideas? Vehicle starts and runs but the vehicle interior is all tore apart and I'd really like to get it to work.

Many thanks,
John
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by ktmsd999 »

I don't believe I hear a relay clicking when it's trying to conduct the start routine either.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

TBH, the best way to diagnose would be to disconnect everything and start hooking up a few things at a time. At the very least, you'll want to start with your power/ground wires. after those 2 things are hooked up, you should hear relays clicking when you hit lock/unlock on the remote keypad. If so, then go ahead and hook up the lock/unlock wires and test them with the keypad. If they don't work, then make sure you have the right wires and then test again. If they do work, go on to the next thing, such as parking lights. Same as before, if lights don't flash when you lock/unlock, then test your wires. If it does work, then onto the wires in the ignition column. Also, are you using a multimeter on the OEM wires to test prior to hooking them up to the remote starter wires?
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by ktmsd999 »

No offense but I was hoping for a response from someone with a working knowledge of a remote start system. I don’t think it’s best to disconnect 16 circuits. We know the horn works, the lock unlock function from the fob works, the neutral safety circuit works, the hood switch works, the brake shut down works, the accessory works, and the ignition works to turn on the entire dash lights. It thinks it’s trying to start the car 3 times. Is there some other input it’s looking for? I’ve been using a multimeter. I’ll go back and test the starter output to see if it’s getting 12V on the black ignition switch wire (heavy gauge).
I suspect the issue with unlocking at remote start might have something to do with my factory alarm outputs from the remote start; maybe I mixed them up.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by runningslow »

ktmsd999 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:21 am No offense but I was hoping for a response from someone with a working knowledge of a remote start system. I don’t think it’s best to disconnect 16 circuits. We know the horn works, the lock unlock function from the fob works, the neutral safety circuit works, the hood switch works, the brake shut down works, the accessory works, and the ignition works to turn on the entire dash lights. It thinks it’s trying to start the car 3 times. Is there some other input it’s looking for? I’ve been using a multimeter. I’ll go back and test the starter output to see if it’s getting 12V on the black ignition switch wire (heavy gauge).
I suspect the issue with unlocking at remote start might have something to do with my factory alarm outputs from the remote start; maybe I mixed them up.
SlammedNiss is going to be the most helpful person for a remote start issue on this forum.

He's one of the two people that helped me with my first remote start install (as detailed in this thread). I'm not going to be much help with diagnosing your problem.
Josh
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by ktmsd999 »

Thanks Josh,
I think I’ve got the unlock during remote start figured out but haven’t had a chance to try it yet. I pinned out the ignition switch and discovered there is also a small gauge White wire that goes high during crank so I’m going to try tying it to the remote start circuit. I saw some diagrams mention white instead of black but none mentioned having to connect to both. Also I think my remote start start might be “locked”. The programming button (valet button) seems to be nonfunctional. The LED blinks a constant rate no matter what. The manual mentions a bitwriter if locked. I bought this unit off eBay so that’s possible. Hopefully I can get it to work and live with how it’s setup.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

ktmsd999 wrote: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:21 am No offense but I was hoping for a response from someone with a working knowledge of a remote start system.
Yea, been doing remotes starts, keyless entries, & vehicle security since 1993. I'm not the one asking for help because I can't figure out why it isn't working. But go ahead, you be you....
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by ktmsd999 »

Than you should know if you installed an entire system and it didn’t work you don’t unhook everything, you trouble shoot it, you don’t go back to the beginning. You write down everything you know and then start verifying circuits are getting the correct signals.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by ktmsd999 »

I was hoping with this being a Vibe specific forum I’d get better help than going to 12volt.com, but that hasn’t been the case. Sorry I offended you Slammniss
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

ktmsd999 wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 3:49 am Than you should know if you installed an entire system and it didn’t work you don’t unhook everything, you trouble shoot it, you don’t go back to the beginning. You write down everything you know and then start verifying circuits are getting the correct signals.
If I had absolutely no clue what I was doing (such as yourself) then I would start from scratch. In fact, the very best place to start is at the beginning. It's very likely you might possibly have more than 1 circuit that isn't correct, so even if you fix one thing, it probably still won't work. But, if you already know what to do, then why are you here asking for help? Have fun....
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by ktmsd999 »

I obviously hit a nerve. I was asking here since it was a bunch of Vibe guys. I only had to add one circuit and delete another and it’s working fine. Again no need to start all the over if you take the time to trouble shoot. I was just hoping someone else maybe had the same issue that could point me in the right direction quickly, not just tell me start from the beginning again.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

ktmsd999 wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:55 am I obviously hit a nerve. I was asking here since it was a bunch of Vibe guys. I only had to add one circuit and delete another and it’s working fine. Again no need to start all the over if you take the time to trouble shoot. I was just hoping someone else maybe had the same issue that could point me in the right direction quickly, not just tell me start from the beginning again.
Look, I don't know you or your capabilities. So asking you to start from the very beginning, to attempt to pinpoint the issue, is definitely not a huge ask. In the end, I was correct. You "had to add one circuit and delete another" to get it working, so fixing just one thing wouldn't have got it working. You posted in a thread where somebody had similar problems, where I was the only person who had responded to help him out. Only to tell me that you were "hoping for a response from someone with a working knowledge of a remote start system". As already stated, I've been doing all matters of vehicle convenience systems since 1993, so pretty sure I qualify as somebody "with a working knowledge of a remote start system(s)." Next time, perhaps be a little more appreciative of somebody trying to help you, instead of basically telling them they have no idea what they are talking about, when you were the one asking for help.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by zbyers »

SlammedNiss wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 2:14 pm
ktmsd999 wrote: Wed Jan 01, 2020 10:55 am I obviously hit a nerve. I was asking here since it was a bunch of Vibe guys. I only had to add one circuit and delete another and it’s working fine. Again no need to start all the over if you take the time to trouble shoot. I was just hoping someone else maybe had the same issue that could point me in the right direction quickly, not just tell me start from the beginning again.
Look, I don't know you or your capabilities. So asking you to start from the very beginning, to attempt to pinpoint the issue, is definitely not a huge ask. In the end, I was correct.
Agreed-- if something is working correctly after install. Start back over, and pay meticulous attention to it to ensure you are following the procedure. 'That's the best way to ensure you don't screw something up-- whether it be a remote start or anything else.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by ktmsd999 »

Never told you that you didn't know what you were doing, but having someone disconnect over 15 circuits and "start over" isn't really advice I would expect from someone who knows how a remote start works. I was expecting some troubleshooting skills. How were you "correct" since I only had to add a circuit and delete one? Your method would have cost me ALOT more time. I must be at the wrong site. Giving help that simply states, disconnect everything and do it all over, really isn't the type of help anyone needs. I gave you the info on what worked and what didn't. If I had simply said, I hooked it all up and it didn't work, you could tell from that I didn't know what I was doing. When I'm telling you I pinned out a switch, you should be able to tell this isn't my first rodeo. Thanks for absolutely nothing buddy. I'll stay out of this electrical section from now on and let you "help" everyone else with all your knowledge.
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Re: Avital Remote Starter

Post by SlammedNiss »

ktmsd999 wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:09 amHow were you "correct" since I only had to add a circuit and delete one?
You had 2 things wrong, so common sense tells you that it wouldn't have worked had you only corrected one of the issues.
ktmsd999 wrote: Tue Jan 07, 2020 6:09 amI'll stay out of this electrical section from now on and let you "help" everyone else with all your knowledge.
Thank you. We don't need nor want unappreciative people who come in here asking for help, then verbally attack those who do attempt to help. Buh-bye.
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