Automatic transmission drive engagement noise and engine vibration

[vibb]

My Vibe FWD automatic made a loud metallic CLANK (not clunk) noise immediately after engaging Drive or Reverse, or sometimes when simply accelerating away from a stop. This started right after delivery 5 weeks ago. It took a few weeks of research, test drives of other Toyota Matrix and Pontiac Vibes, and lively discussions with both GM customer satisfaction and the dealership to progress from 'Could not recreate' to 'They all do that' to 'Your vehicle is within the norm' to 'The factory has authorized some time to try to fix it.'First they tried to 'settle' the engine motor mounts, which involved loosening the mounts and letting the engine find a natural position while engaging Drive and Reverse and re-tightening the bolts. Second they checked the steering components for looseness. None of these efforts helped. Finally they detached the exhaust pipe from the manifold, applied high temperature graphite to the stainless steel insulator in between and reassembled the exhaust. The clank was eliminated!After getting the car back, the engine is "VIBErating" during idle (steering wheel shakes up and down, seatbacks tremble), and has a progressively worse vibration, peaking at 2500-3000 RPM. Before the repair, the engine was always buttery smooth at all rpms. So, back to the service dept... They now want to try some bolting some heavy 'harmonic weights' off the exhaust system to try to quell the resonance, and cited other Vibes having required similiar fixes. I asked why they can't simply put the exhaust components back to the position they were in before the repair. The reply was that the clank may come back if they do that. Since I drove other Vibes and Matrixes with smooth engines and no clanks, I have trouble accepting how production tolerances could be so critical. Please excuse this long post. I had hoped to post a problem with a resolution, but I it's not quite there! Has anyone else had a similiar experience with engine vibration or clanking?
[Modified by vibb, 1:55 AM 7/20/2002]

[d_m_kolb]

It all most makes me think since they disconnected the exhaust from the manifold that the exhaust pipe should have just a little movement in it to help with the vibrations.What I'm getting at is I'm not sure how the Vibe's exhaust pipe fits to the manifold but on my Kia Spectra there is a dount gasket that even when tight allows the exhaust to twist and move around alittle. It's designed to do this but don't break the seal so not exhaust gases escape. It helps with engine vibrations and when the engine has a load on it and raises up slightly and then back down it gives to compensate for this.It seems like when they stiffened up the exhaust pipe all the flexibility that might have been there is now transfered through the exhaust right to your (removed). I'd want them to put it back stock. The noise as long as it's not inside the engine or trany you should be ok. the noise must have been something hitting up against something under the hood. I can't beleive they can't find the noise. I would have put the brake on dropped it in drive and back and forth in reverse apply just a little gas while someone watches to see if anything is touching. This should have also been done with someone watching from under the car as well.That's just my 2 cents. I'm not a GM mechanic but it doesn't seem like they are doing a very good job with finding out what the problem is. You might want to call a Toyota dealership and talk to the service manager and see if they have heard of this before? It is after all there engine, trany and suspention.

[vibb]

Thanks d_m_kolb, you make a lot of sense, and I must agree that the exhaust/engine coupling must be way too rigid now. I don't want the clanking noise to come back though, so I'll ask the dealer to avoid hanging weights onto the exhaust if there is any evidence that any exhaust parts were damaged, bent, or over-tightened during the original repair. After all, most new Vibes don't clank or vibrate.I noticed that older Corollas used what looked like a braided steel hose spliced into the front exhaust pipe to allow the engine and exhaust to remain flexibly connected. In contrast, the Vibe exhaust looks solid from front to back, though I admit I haven't seen what the insulator looks like.Since there appears to be no plans to sell a Pontiac factory shop manual to Vibe owners, here is a scan of the exhaust system from a helpful Toyota parts dept.
[Modified by vibb, 12:34 AM 7/21/2002]

[HenryTS]

quote:Since there appears to be no plans to sell a Pontiac factory shop manual to Vibe owners, here is a scan of the exhaust system from a helpful Toyota parts dept.]They don't plan on selling the factory service manual--What is it they list for $120 in the owners manual?

[vibb]

Re: Factory manual.. Just to keep on topic, HenryTS, I responded to your question in a new post in the Lounge at http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=449
[Modified by vibb, 7:47 AM 7/21/2002]

[d_m_kolb]

Thanks Vibb. It's nice to see some people read my posts and stay on topic.

[HenryTS]

Sorry-didn't think I was going off topic-I responded to info within a post here and I thought that the factory service manual would fit the specs for a maintenance issue.

[d_m_kolb]

It does I never said you went off topic.

[HenryTS]

Ooops-I guess i misunderstood-between the reply that was routed to another forum and your post I thought I was being off topic.Thanks for clearing it up .

[Robovibe]

"Trans clank" had the same problem right after receiving my vehicle back in May. Took it back to the service dept., seems to be a service advisory out seeing the service manager knew exactly what I was talking about. They lubed the front ball valve and I haven't had a "clank" since.

[vibb]

Say Robovibe,What exactly is a 'front ball valve'? Is this a transmission part or something else? Could you post the name of your dealership? I'm bringing my car back to my dealer this Wednesday (number 5 visit in 6 weeks) so any help would be appreciated..

[Robovibe]

I had it done at McNamara Pontiac in Orlando FL. on 5/4/02. My paper work states " Lubed lower ball joint" have no idea what it is, but it stopped the popping/clunking noise when going from reverse to drive and vice-a-versa. It also stopped it from when you step on the gas from a stop. If you want to talk to the service dept at McNamara the number is: 407-849-0610. Best of luck!

[NovaResource]

The ball joint (not valve) is the connection between the lower control arm and the spindle. The spindle is the part at the end of the strut where the wheel and brakes attach to. The lower control arm is how the lower part of the spindle connects to the rest of the chassis. The control arm is what allows the wheel to move up and down. The ball joint is the connection between the two allowing the control arm to move and allowing the wheels to steer.

[vibb]

Thank you Robovibe,I phoned McNamara's service dept. this afternoon, and they will try to look up the work record and see what was done.

[NSimkins]

quote:Has anyone else had a similiar experience with engine vibration or clanking? I noticed this noise on my Vibe just two or three times the first day I brought it home. It has yet to do this again, but I will use the information in this thread if I have to bring it into Service.Thanks!!

[vibb]

Here is an update/rant. After 6 visits to the dealer service in 8 weeks to try to get rid of the vibration, (the last two visits including the GM District Service Manager) and have received strong hints that they are getting ready to declare that my car is normal and push me into binding arbitration. I am totally frustrated with this whole experience and question whether the positive qualities of the car are worth spending obscene amounts of time battling for adequate warranty service.

[Johnnym]

Let me start off by saying that I am not a Vibe owner although I do own a Matrix.I have found that after numerous trips to the dealer this noise is "normal" and will go away within the 3000 mile break in period my Matrix has 2800 miles and the noise went away about 500 miles ago I hope this helps.

[vibb]

Hi all:There is a new thread at http://forums.genvibe.com/zerothread?id=822 that continues this discussion of clanking, causes, and possible cures.