Feeling the lift and other stick Qs

Discussion of LEGAL Vibe & Matrix racing events, autocross, drag racing, closed track road racing, and technical racing aspects. [Disclaimer]
Post Reply
Chill Penguin
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:12 am

Feeling the lift and other stick Qs

Post by Chill Penguin »

I've had my Vibe GT for a little over half a year. It is my first stick, and I love the feeling of control the manual transmission gives me. Getting into an automatic feels like I am just steering the car, and not actually driving it.On to my questions. I have read the term "lift" used in these forums. I assume that means when you get the RPMs up to over 6K. If I am correct, is it safe to get the tach up that high in first gear, or is that something I should reserve for the higher gears?What is the best way to get off to a quick start? I don't want to drive like I'm drag racing all the time, but I'm still far too concerned about not stalling. It can take me as long as three seconds to get my car moving because I am concentrating too much on lifting up on the clutch and pushing down on the gas at the correct rate.Every time I see another car whizz by me on the road, I feel like my car dies a little. I've got a GT badge on the side - I should drive like it is one. Could anyone give a novice a few pointers?
I'm in the Baltimore, MD area, always on the look out for fellow Vibers.2003 Monotone Abyss GT (Hotaru) with Sports Package
AKLGT
Posts: 11694
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 2:57 pm

Re: Feeling the lift and other stick Qs (Chill Penguin)

Post by AKLGT »

well, the clutch on the gt is a bit tricky for starters. i too, still sometimes stall the silly thing when i'm too quick to let up on the clutch. but to get moving i usually let the car rev to about 2500 rpms and let the clutch go. that will almost always do the trick. you can go up to red line 8000 rpms in any gear, but i don't like to in first. i have gone from 0-55 in 1st gear, hit lift, shift to 2nd, hit lift again, and so forth, it's quite exhilerating. once you've experienced the feeling of "lift" you will know. your head gets thrown back a little and you feel and hear the car at it's peak! with some additional mods like a cai or exhaust, you feel it even more! but that's just me. everyone is a little different. if you think about driving too much, you overkill and that's where you probably stall. you really have to go by feel. if i were you, i'd go to an empty parking lot and just practice starting and launching from different pressures on the clutch. then when you feel you'd got it, go try it out. practice makes perfect.
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
Chill Penguin
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:12 am

Re: Feeling the lift and other stick Qs (trdvibe)

Post by Chill Penguin »

Thanks for the advice trdvibe. Although I planned on sitting in for the night, I am now fighting the urge to just jump in the Vibe and try that out! I try hard to not think too much while driving... it seems that when I do, that is when I stall the most.I did have one other question that I failed to ask before: I know it is safe to drop from 6th gear to 5th gear to get some extra speed on the highway, but can I drop from 5th to 4th? Also, could I drop from 6th to 4th? I seem to recall reading somewhere that skipping gears is a very bad idea.
I'm in the Baltimore, MD area, always on the look out for fellow Vibers.2003 Monotone Abyss GT (Hotaru) with Sports Package
AKLGT
Posts: 11694
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 2:57 pm

Re: Feeling the lift and other stick Qs (Chill Penguin)

Post by AKLGT »

hmm. good question, i have done both and haven't had a problem. but don't know on the skipping gears. it's generally not a good idea, but depending on speed and what you're trying to do, i think plays a part. if you're doing 80 mph and skip to 2nd, it may not be such a good idea. if you're doing 30 mph and trying to slow down and go to 2nd, then i don't think it's a big deal at all. you're probably better to ask that question in engine and transmission forum.
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
Chill Penguin
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:12 am

Post by Chill Penguin »

Okay. It isn't extremely important to know whether or not I can. I just don't wanna break my baby! Thanks for the help.
I'm in the Baltimore, MD area, always on the look out for fellow Vibers.2003 Monotone Abyss GT (Hotaru) with Sports Package
mkosem
Posts: 32
Joined: Fri Nov 21, 2003 8:53 pm

Post by mkosem »

I've skipped gears going up and down on my previous cars with no problems whatsoever. You just have to be careful when dong so downward so that you don't downshift past the redline.--Matt
savedbyzero
Posts: 1066
Joined: Mon Apr 15, 2002 7:15 am

Post by savedbyzero »

Baltimore, huh! I'm in NoVA! Fairfax to be exact! And we share the same color of Vibe's! but I've got springs, tint, exhaust, and cai.I'll keep an eye out for you when I'm up that way. Watch for dates to be posted about a Mid-Atlantic region meet in D.C.! We'll be planning it soon. Just pop into the Mid-Atlantic forum and check.As far as launching goes, not an easy task in these high-revving, low torque machines! You gotta be willing to sacrifice a little clutch to really take off! Wether you drop it or slip it in the high-rpm range. It's best I've found to hold the rpm's steady at 4500 at drop the clutch. As you do so, punch the gas and get ready to shift! 8300 rpms comes quick in 1st! the slip the clutch just a little as you go to 2nd to keep the rev's up and land back in lift. Shift smooth and precise. Don't ram-rod it into gear.
THIS IS WHAT I DO...http://www.studiothisis.com
dsegundo
Posts: 426
Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 11:28 am

Re: (savedbyzero)

Post by dsegundo »

You just have to be sure that your engine is in it's range. Alot of times, when i hit lift in second, I'll shift up to fourth. It's good.
Desi SegundoFlint, Michigan'04 All Silver Vibe GT (Valerie) w/ the Sport packageSony CDX-M850MP H/U, Infinity CS6000 components, Rockford Fosgate FFC65, driven by Alpine MRP-F240 and Alpine MRV-T707 rocking 2 10" Alumapro'shttp://www.classicappreciation.com
Chill Penguin
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:12 am

Post by Chill Penguin »

Although I rarely go south to the DC Metro area, my wife works around there. Chances are if you ever see my Vibe on the road, it'll be her driving around. We've been looking for a Mid-Atlantic meet so I can meet all the other Vibers around here. I'll pop into the forum every once in a while to get details.I appreciate the advice guys. It seems to me that there aren't any hard-and-fast rules about driving the Vibe the way it is meant to be driven... well, except for not shifting past the redline. It sounds like alot of it has to do with knowing the car and relying on experience. I've got alot of errands to run today, so I'll have time to practice!savedbyzero, I'd like to mod my car a bit - in particular, the cold air intake. Those extra 12 horses sound pretty sweet. However, since I have the warranty on the car, and don't know the first thing about modding a car myself, I will cross my fingers and hope that GM releases their own CAI so I can have it done and still be covered.
I'm in the Baltimore, MD area, always on the look out for fellow Vibers.2003 Monotone Abyss GT (Hotaru) with Sports Package
AKLGT
Posts: 11694
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2003 2:57 pm

Re: (Chill Penguin)

Post by AKLGT »

[QUOTE=savedbyzero, I'd like to mod my car a bit - in particular, the cold air intake. Those extra 12 horses sound pretty sweet. However, since I have the warranty on the car, and don't know the first thing about modding a car myself, I will cross my fingers and hope that GM releases their own CAI so I can have it done and still be covered.[/QUOTE]gm will never come out with anything that toyota hasn't developed. the aem or injen seem to be the way to go, fewer check engine lights. i have a trd cai and it's pretty easy to install. keep your factory airbox and lots of notes/pics of the install so you can reinstall if you need to have the car looked at. it won't void your warranty, but they won't fix anything that is "related". you just have to put the car back to stock and then bring it in for service if necessary.
AKLGT1998 Subaru 2.5RS
Mavrik
Posts: 8072
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 6:41 am

Re: (trdvibe)

Post by Mavrik »

Well since I have the base Vibe 5spd, I haven't experienced lift with it. But I have driven the Vibe GT and lift is awsome. I have skipped gears going up and down as well and the car can handle it. You just have to get the feel for what works best, what RPM and speed to downshift in.
2007 stage 2 Satin White Pearl Subaru STi 2008 stage 2 Subaru STi hatch See my car at: Mavrik's car page
Chill Penguin
Posts: 26
Joined: Tue Jul 29, 2003 9:12 am

Post by Chill Penguin »

I posted this thread a while back, and I wanted to give a small update. The MD area has been caked in ice as of late, so I was afraid of trying to achieve lift. As the ice began to melt, I gave it a shot.The highest I ever got the Vibe in first gear was 3500 rpm. I got it up to about 7500 rpm. I felt the Vibe just start to haul (removed). So, I shifted to second, Got up to around 7000 rpm, and shifted up. Since I was on Route 1 with morning traffic, I decided not to push it and slow down a bit. If it were clear though, nothing would have stopped me from breaking 100 mph that morning.Needless to say, I felt the rush and it was great. As I slowed down and shifted into sixth gear, I smelled what I believed was the clutch burning. I have read in other threads that this is normal in the Vibe. It wasn't terribly strong, but I have trained myself to notice it.Anyway, it was a blast. I'll be driving my GT the way she is meant to be driven soon enough!
I'm in the Baltimore, MD area, always on the look out for fellow Vibers.2003 Monotone Abyss GT (Hotaru) with Sports Package
Jahntassa
Posts: 2979
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:06 pm

Post by Jahntassa »

Yeah...just get used to shifting right before the fuel cutoff..at around..er..8200 rpm? I think...Anyway..it's fun to hit redline and shift.. But as has been said before, the shift between 1st and 2nd is a little rough, and you tend to fall out of lift. 2nd and above..very smooth, though..
2003 Vibe GT Lava"He inched his way up the corridor as if he would rather be yarding his way down it.""For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen." - Douglas Adams...we all miss you
Stang2Vibe
Posts: 2689
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:37 am

Re: (Chill Penguin)

Post by Stang2Vibe »

Taking the Vibe to redline in 1st will cause no more problems than doing the same thing in any other gear. You can skip-shift without causing any harm. Also, you won't be able to select a lower gear that would send you above the redline if you were to downshift. It just won't go into gear, so don't fear that. I think the synchros can't catch up if you choose too low of a gear and just won't let you shift into that gear. If you need to pass on the highway or something, go ahead and drop down two gears if needed. I've sometimes even dropped down 3. That's the purpose of having a manual. You just have to get a feel for what the car can do at a given speed through experience.
Former owner of a 2003 Vibe GT---Great car that gave me 8 years and 83,000 miles of trouble-free service.Current owner of a 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe Limited AWD.
StampedeVibe
Posts: 90
Joined: Wed Jan 28, 2004 8:49 am

Re: (Stang2Vibe)

Post by StampedeVibe »

Just a thought about downshifting, I usually downshift from 6th to 4th, and when I do, I usually tap the gas to get the RPMs up while the clutch is in. That's the way to minimize wear on the clutch, right?
Jahntassa
Posts: 2979
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:06 pm

Re: (StampedeVibe)

Post by Jahntassa »

Quote, originally posted by StampedeVibe »Just a thought about downshifting, I usually downshift from 6th to 4th, and when I do, I usually tap the gas to get the RPMs up while the clutch is in. That's the way to minimize wear on the clutch, right?Dunno personally.. Heh.. I usually go from sixth to third if I need to pass someone though.. Doing the same thing, try to get the revs up to where I know it won't jerk the car when the gears pull the engine up.. I think it's just less stressful to the car overall to have the engine in the right RPM range when you let off the clutch..
2003 Vibe GT Lava"He inched his way up the corridor as if he would rather be yarding his way down it.""For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen." - Douglas Adams...we all miss you
Pablo1669
Posts: 1006
Joined: Wed Apr 23, 2003 10:31 pm

Re: (StampedeVibe)

Post by Pablo1669 »

Quote, originally posted by StampedeVibe »Just a thought about downshifting, I usually downshift from 6th to 4th, and when I do, I usually tap the gas to get the RPMs up while the clutch is in. That's the way to minimize wear on the clutch, right?yeah, you don't just wanna slam it back into gear, ease it back in by playing with the throttle.More often than not, if I'm on the highway and I want to pass somebody, I'll drop from 6th to 3rd. This will not hurt the car at all if you are good with the clutch. I've been driving performance cars for a while (it was my job).You can put your car into 3rd gear safely anywhere under 80mph because you'll redline at 85mph in 3rd gear, just be ready for it. here is the more general ranges for shifting1st gear goes up to about 40mph2nd gear goes to 65 mph3rd gear gets you to 85 mph4th gear will bring you faster than you should be safely going.So, if you are cruising around the express way, and want to pass some A-hole going 60mph in the left lane, I would suggest dropping to 3rd gear (not second because you will be in like the 7500 range). Dropping to 3rd at about 60 will bring you just shy of lift, and once you put your foot down on the gas, that sucker will start screaming really nice!As for that clutch smell... you usually won't smell it unless you've done something slightly wrong. If you smell it while downshifting and such, it's probably because you were too slow on letting the clutch out after shifting. But don't worry, a little smell isn't that bad.
-Brian
MadBill
Posts: 1513
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 9:39 am

Re: (Stang2Vibe)

Post by MadBill »

Quote, originally posted by Stang2Vibe »...Also, you won't be able to select a lower gear that would send you above the redline if you were to downshift. It just won't go into gear, so don't fear that. I think the synchros can't catch up if you choose too low of a gear and just won't let you shift into that gear. ....Err, not so, Stang! It would be great if there was some kind of override on premature downshifts, but, while it works the synchros a lot harder, they will definitely not prevent rash downshifts! I have seen numerous V-8 engines damaged in this way and a friend who is a District Manager for GM told me of a Vibe he looked at last year that had accidently been downshifted from 5th to 2nd at highway speeds on a test drive. Didn't hear what it did to the engine, but the clutch blew up, scattering shrapnel right through the sheet metal! (there's a long ago post somewhere re this)If you really wanted to test this out, you could try a downshift that would result in say 500 or so RPM more than redline in the lower gear, but absolutely do not let out the clutch!
Faultline
Posts: 672
Joined: Wed Oct 09, 2002 1:41 pm

Re: (MadBill)

Post by Faultline »

I must admit that though my car is fun, screaming all the way to a 8300rpm red line has got to be a blast!!.I think that after time , we all learn our speeds and rev ranges to down shift to the right gear to get the rpm we want, the bummer is when you accidently skip a gear...and I think that is easier to do in the 6 speed...
pics 10/2/05 http://photobucket.com/albums/a386/Faultline05/2003 Base Vibe, frosty color,moon n' tunes packagemods: Eibach sportline lowering springs,17"centerline forged wheels -silver excels -Goodyear Eagle F1 tires 225/50/17's-ACT HD clutch,2.5" exhaust,ES motormount inserts,up graded to 6 spd transmissionStafford Fabrication turbo kit: Garrett T3 turbo, FMIC ,SF BOV. ,Alcohol/water injection,and SF centerfeed fuel rail
ragingfish
Posts: 11022
Joined: Tue Oct 15, 2002 8:23 am

Post by ragingfish »

I WANT LIFT...
YES!I still visit GenVibe periodically. I have not forgotten about my "original" family over here!

2009 PONTIAC G8
3.6L V6 (256 HP @ 6300 rpm, 248 ft-lbs. @ 2100 rpm)
Stang2Vibe
Posts: 2689
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:37 am

Re: (MadBill)

Post by Stang2Vibe »

That's kinda interesting, MadBill. While I don't doubt your info, I have found that my shifter will refuse to go into gear if I'm going too fast for that gear. I might have to try this again. Without letting the clutch back out as you said, of course.
Former owner of a 2003 Vibe GT---Great car that gave me 8 years and 83,000 miles of trouble-free service.Current owner of a 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe Limited AWD.
Jahntassa
Posts: 2979
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:06 pm

Post by Jahntassa »

It's possible that it's a natural resistance built into the tranny. I've noticed it's a struggle to downshift to first if i'm going faster than..er..20, 25 I think. It's possible, but sometimes I need to slow down to get it in..I might go with the theory on the syncros. Maybe if they can't spin up that fast, they simply refuse to engage? Just a theory..
2003 Vibe GT Lava"He inched his way up the corridor as if he would rather be yarding his way down it.""For a moment, nothing happened. Then, after a second or so, nothing continued to happen." - Douglas Adams...we all miss you
syclnjr
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 9:08 pm

Post by syclnjr »

Hey there all I have only had my Vibe for about a week or so and it has about 500 miles on it now and after the supposed 500 mile breakin I let the thing loose and found that it is easier to shift in the lift zone when you are going up from second, it seemed to me that shifting to second from first cause it to be jerky but it could have been me being too exicted, later
Mike2004 Vibe GT Abyss two tone, M/T, power package and 17's.
Stang2Vibe
Posts: 2689
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:37 am

Re: (Jahntassa)

Post by Stang2Vibe »

Ok, I was experimenting the other day and tried it out. At 70 MPH on the highway, I was able to put the shifter into 1st. I DID NOT let out the clutch, as I'd like to keep my Vibe for a while. It did take a little while until it went into the gear, and I really had to force it a bit. You would know if you were about to make a suicide shift, so I'm not worried that I would do it accidentally. BTW---in addition to possibly exploding the clutch/engine/etc by doing this, if the drivetrain actually hooked up, even if only for a few seconds, it would probably throw the car into an uncontrollable situation. I would never ever attempt to do this and let the clutch out. So MadBill was correct as usual.
Former owner of a 2003 Vibe GT---Great car that gave me 8 years and 83,000 miles of trouble-free service.Current owner of a 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe Limited AWD.
Stang2Vibe
Posts: 2689
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2002 3:37 am

Re: (syclnjr)

Post by Stang2Vibe »

This engine and tranny combo takes some getting used to. I used to experience the jerkiness until the clutch the clutch broke in more and I got some practice at working the tranny with this engine. Just keep at it and you will learn how to do it smoothly.
Former owner of a 2003 Vibe GT---Great car that gave me 8 years and 83,000 miles of trouble-free service.Current owner of a 2008 Hyundai Santa Fe Limited AWD.
Post Reply