Toyota may kill the Matrix

The latest news on what's happening with the Pontiac Vibe & Toyota Matrix.
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micbarric
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Toyota may kill the Matrix

Postby micbarric » Wed Jun 01, 2011 11:37 pm


http://www.autoblog.com/2011/0...sure/

"Toyota may not invest in a next-generation version of the company's Matrix when the 2013 Corolla arrives. According to Ward's Auto, the hatchback's sales have fallen off of a cliff, with just 14,592 deliveries last year. That's down from a height of 66,836 units in 2002."



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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (micbarric)

Postby star_deceiver » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:30 am

You'll have to come up here to buy one!

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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (micbarric)

Postby keithvibe » Thu Jun 02, 2011 12:59 am

They do that, then I will just have to buy a VW Jetta TDI wagon.
Idoits!... if they made something interesting and something that looks good I would buy it.


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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (micbarric)

Postby 03VibeOttawa » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:22 am

This reminds me of how hard it is to suppress an "I don't get it" Ch@dbee-style rant about Americans' tastes and preferences in vehicles.
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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (keithvibe)

Postby cythraul » Thu Jun 02, 2011 3:49 am

What about the Venza? I like the look but I did not yet went into the details since the Vibe/Matrix seems to fit my needs more closely...

There's also the RVR from Subaru that looks cool and AWD by default.

EDIT:

Oops. I always assumed that Subaru meant AWD... Apparently, the RVR is also available as a 2WD. Fuel economy is pretty close to the Vibe/Matrix (depending on sources). Also, while the 4WD only comes with an auto trans, it has the same fuel economy as the 2WD (8.4 L/100, REF: auto123.com). Impressive.

Again on fuel economy, I hereby remove my interest on the Venza until they get their fuel economy under 8.5 L/100 in city driving.

Any other rides like the Vibe/Matrix with a similar or better fuel economy?

EDIT2:

Wow, what a day. Confusing Subaru and Mitsubishi. Sorry about that.

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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (cythraul)

Postby star_deceiver » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:06 am

Does nobody want a non-sedan sub $20000 vehicle down there???

Venza and RVR are in a completly different price segment.

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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (star_deceiver)

Postby cythraul » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:08 am

You're right about price segment. One can still dream.
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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (cythraul)

Postby keithvibe » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:41 am

Yea the venza is way out of my price range for the features I would want...
I am on the fence about anything scoobie. I used to like some of their styling.. not so much now...
I can get the TDI loaded for under 28k, at the dealer I could most likely get that knocked down to 24-25k. 40mpg... where do I sign

Venza you are in the 40k range



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Postby lovemyraffe » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:00 am

Sad day for the Matrix. Damn people and their hatred of wagons/hatchbacks!

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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (micbarric)

Postby GMJAP » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:34 am

The Matrix probably overlaps the market segments of the Scion xB, xD, Toyota Yaris 5-door, and Rav4.

They may not be able to support all those models competing for similar customers. As the Matrix is not fully home-grown I'm not surprised it'd be the first on the chopping block. (Which doesn't mean I'm not disappointed!)

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Postby cptnsolo77 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:26 am

......well the 09s and up got pretty ugly.....
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Postby djkeev » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:42 am

Back in 07 when we were shopping, we stopped at Toyota and looked at the Matrix. The sales people were at that time pushing the RAV 4. They had little to no interest in selling me a Matrix. The lot was flowing over with RAV 4's and but 2 0r 3 Matrix there.
If that is Toyota's marketing strategy, no wonder they don't sell any!
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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (Feelin' The Vibe)

Postby DressedInBlack » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:57 am

Quote, originally posted by Feelin’ The Vibe »
This reminds me of how hard it is to suppress an "I don't get it" Ch@dbee-style rant about Americans' tastes and preferences in vehicles.

hey, aren't you American?

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Postby Cougar Vibe » Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:31 am

I'm pretty sure we all understand that it's hard for a vehicle to sell well when the manufacturer is not promoting it.

Thus, as it was w/the Vibe, so it is w/the Matrix.


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Postby ColonelPanic » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:39 am

Aesthetics aside, Toyota has also priced themselves out of the market with these things. The feature per dollar ratio is quite poor on the Matrix, IMHO. It's a nice car, just not competitive. That's a shame, i wouldn't mind having a small hatchback again. I looked into these but it's just not worth the price of admission.
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Postby KITT222 » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:46 am

This is why Hyundai/Kia are becoming so popular. They actually embrace hatchbacks. And, all opinions aside, I would actually buy the Forte5 or Elantra Touring.

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Postby kostby » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:11 pm

So it turns out that NOT advertising a vehicle, no matter who builds it, and no matter how good it is, does NOT lead to more sales!
Who could ever have predicted that?

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Re: (KITT222)

Postby 03VibeOttawa » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:43 pm

Quote, originally posted by KITT222 »
This is why Hyundai/Kia are becoming so popular. They actually embrace hatchbacks. And, all opinions aside, I would actually buy the Forte5 or Elantra Touring.

At least Hyundai is starting to manufacture here in North America, that's about the only thing I like about them. What are the chances of a Hyundai or Kia lasting 300K miles like a lot of the cars on this forum? Sure their build quality has improved in the last few years, but it's still hardly at Toyota and Honda reputability. Cheap cars are cheap for good reasons.
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Postby Old Tele man » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:24 am

...wasn't the Vibe/Matrix/Volt a "joint" Toyota-GM design effort from the start? Which would indicate that GM-had a hand (or some other body part) in its' creation? And, now, with GM's "divorce" from the NUMMI marriage, wouldn't it make sense that there might NOT be any more GM-created "babies" anymore?
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Re: (Old Tele man)

Postby KITT222 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:50 am

Did you mean Voltz?

Well of course Toyota wants out. Heck, it was a bad marriage from the start! Neither parents really loved the children (though Toyota did love theirs more) so it's reasonable that Toyota wants to stop making the Matrix.


Feelin' the vibe: I would actually, honestly take a Sonic, Cruze (despite their sedan-ness), Fiesta or Focus (maybe even a Mazda3) over a Hyundai/Kia.


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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (GMJAP)

Postby 06pvibe » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:30 am

Quote, originally posted by GMJAP »
The Matrix probably overlaps the market segments of the Scion xB, xD, Toyota Yaris 5-door, and Rav4.

They may not be able to support all those models competing for similar customers. As the Matrix is not fully home-grown I'm not surprised it'd be the first on the chopping block. (Which doesn't mean I'm not disappointed!)



You forgot the Soul, Verve, and a few others I can't think of right now. (Long day.. week at work. My brain is fried.)
I agree. This segment is just getting overloaded with choices. Something as "old" as the Matrix and its more classic styling doesn't really stand a chance when one can be "trendy."
With only 14,000 sold the number speak for themselves. People are not as interested in it these days.
And who knows, it's replacement might just be an even more interesting vehicle?
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Re: (Feelin' The Vibe)

Postby keithvibe » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:41 am

Quote, originally posted by Feelin’ The Vibe »

At least Hyundai is starting to manufacture here in North America, that's about the only thing I like about them. What are the chances of a Hyundai or Kia lasting 300K miles like a lot of the cars on this forum? Sure their build quality has improved in the last few years, but it's still hardly at Toyota and Honda reputability. Cheap cars are cheap for good reasons.

My wife's Kia Soul, has a 10yr 100,000 mile warranty. So far no issues with the car, she will see 10yr mark well before the 100,000 mark
She puts about 5k on a year.


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Re: (Old Tele man)

Postby jake75 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:44 am

Quote, originally posted by Old Tele man »
...wasn't the Vibe/Matrix/Volt a "joint" Toyota-GM design effort from the start? Which would indicate that GM-had a hand (or some other body part) in its' creation? And, now, with GM's "divorce" from the NUMMI marriage, wouldn't it make sense that there might NOT be any more GM-created "babies" anymore?

As they say, parts is parts and most of the parts in the Vibe are Toyota parts. If they do keep the Matrix might make more sense for them to rebadge it as a Corolla Hatchback. Every Corolla ad could have it in the background with the statement "also available as a hatchback".

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Re: (jake75)

Postby KITT222 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 5:25 am

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »

As they say, parts is parts and most of the parts in the Vibe are Toyota parts. If they do keep the Matrix might make more sense for them to rebadge it as a Toyota Hatchback. Every Corolla ad could have it in the background with the statement "also available as a hatchback".

That is not a bad idea.Heck, or not even like that, just make them like the Aveo ads. Sedan 3/4 view of front, hatchback in background with rear 3/4 view.


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Postby jamsandwich » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:17 am

Very sad to see it go, if they don't hang onto the Matrix. I always kind of expected to invest in a Matrix when I was done with my (08) Vibe... but I'm hoping that will be another 10 years, so maybe it's unrealistic to expect the model would still be around by then.

Not really sold on alternatives. We bought my wife an Elantra Touring instead of another Vibe (larger storage space and more space between rear seats and front seats were both key). It's fine, but whenever I go through longer stretches of driving her car (it's the "family" car, because there's more room for the kids), I always love to get back into my Vibe.

But whatever our next vehicle is, I couldn't imagine it being anything other than a hatchback.

...hopefully that's not something we have to think about for a long time to come.


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Re: (jamsandwich)

Postby jake75 » Mon Jun 27, 2011 11:07 am

What do you find disappointing about the Elanta Touring?
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Postby 06pvibe » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:02 pm


It seems now that the Prius V is taking the place of the Matrix in Toyota's line up.
Seeing a review of it on Motor Week yesterday and in R&T. Especially in profile, the two look like the same size and almost the same shape as well.
But if you thought the Vibe/Matrix was slow.....
10.6 sec to 60 is the best it can do.
Just what the world needs... another Prius.
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Re: (06pvibe)

Postby CAMOGIRL » Mon Jun 27, 2011 10:34 pm

Well, isn't the matrix just a corolla hatch anyway? The newest matrix are not esthetically pleasing to me and they look less sporty and more .... You know. Give it a fresh look and go ahead and call it what it really is. And GAW NO we don't need it as a Prius!
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Re: (jake75)

Postby jamsandwich » Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:26 am

I don't know that there's anything that disappointing about the Elantra. I'd say the finish isn't quite up to snuff (a few minor issues with interior knickknacks and the door for the gas cap), but it's been reliable so far, and it's quickly catching up to my Vibe in mileage.

The real issue for me is just how it behaves on the road. The electronic steering feels kinda vague and I'm not in tune with its engine response or its overall handling. I guess what I'm saying is it's just not my Vibe But it was a fantastic value.

As for the Matrix, maybe an unopopular opinion here, but with the redesigned models, I think I preferred the Matrix (on the whole) to the Vibe. There's just something about the 09-10 Vibe's backside that didn't work for me.


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Re: (jamsandwich)

Postby jake75 » Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:36 am

I long ago reached the point that so long as a vehicle isn't Aztek ugly I can live with that aspect.
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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (micbarric)

Postby waveresponder » Tue Jun 28, 2011 9:56 am

IMO the Lexus CT200H is kinda the replacement for the matrix

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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix (waveresponder)

Postby 06pvibe » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:20 am


You might be right. I was only guessing.
They do seem to have the same drivetrain, but the 200 is just a little bit faster to 60 (9.8) than is the Prius V, which is 10.4 (I previously misquoted.)
But it's also another +/-$2000.

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Postby psiu » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:33 am

The new Focus hatchback is pretty sweet looking. If we were looking to stay small car I would be checking it out...though no AWD irks me to no end.

I just want a nice looking, AWD, hatch (even mini-ute if you want to call it that), Big-3, US built car. Getting to be impossible to find now.


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Postby SeattleJeremy » Mon Aug 01, 2011 9:44 am

I remember reading that Pontiac sold 60k+ Vibes a year. Why can't Toyota convert these sales in to Matrix sales?

Cause they want to sell Prius and Rav4's instead. It's too bad.

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Re: (Jeremy96gase)

Postby Salsa Guy » Tue Aug 02, 2011 12:53 am

Quote, originally posted by Jeremy96gase »
I remember reading that Pontiac sold 60k+ Vibes a year. Why can't Toyota convert these sales in to Matrix sales?

Cause they want to sell Prius and Rav4's instead. It's too bad.

Well several people who bought the Vibe (such as my uncle) thought it was a GM/Pontiac/USA product. He has never own a foreign car and it took me weeks to prove to him it was a mostly a Toyota product.

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Re: (Salsa Guy)

Postby cythraul » Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:26 am

Quote, originally posted by Salsa Guy »

Well several people who bought the Vibe (such as my uncle) thought it was a GM/Pontiac/USA product. He has never own a foreign car and it took me weeks to prove to him it was a mostly a Toyota product.

I hope he did not return it after learning these facts!

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Re: (cythraul)

Postby Salsa Guy » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:20 am

Quote, originally posted by cythraul »

I hope he did not return it after learning these facts!

No he really likes the car but is an old school guy. Perfers US products first. I told him Pontiacs have more power than Toyotas...LOL

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Re: (Salsa Guy)

Postby jake75 » Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:51 am

In the early 90's my brother's father in law, who shunned foreign automobiles, bought a compact Pontiac LeMans that he really liked. He was very upset when its origin (Korean I think) was pointed out to him.
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Re: Toyota may kill the Matrix

Postby Sandy Brown » Sun Aug 07, 2011 9:22 pm

Yes, I think Toyota is one of the companies in the market.

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Postby journeyforce » Sun Aug 28, 2011 1:04 pm

The reason the Matrix does not sell is because Toyota does not seem to market it. They once did with a few good commercials but now nothing, which is sad. Yet they advertise that ugly Yaris which is nothing but a gussied up Echo. The base matrix gets as good mileage as a Yaris but hold so much more and has a conventional gauge cluster

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Re: (journeyforce)

Postby jake75 » Sun Aug 28, 2011 11:24 pm

Maybe the ought to rename it "Corolla XPV" [extra purpose vehicle]
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Re: (jake75)

Postby Blueridge9 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 9:33 am

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »

If they do keep the Matrix might make more sense for them to rebadge it as a Corolla Hatchback. Every Corolla ad could have it in the background with the statement "also available as a hatchback".

Corolla Hatchback would be a good idea. Looking at Toyota's huge advertising of the new PRIUS V hatchback I think that's the current Matrix replacement in their lineup. I just drove one and it's a little bigger than the Vibe with the Hybrid technology and I will consider it of the Prius 4 for replacing my Vibe in a few years. In addition to better mileage there are some new safety and tech features. They need to add better exterior colors!

And you are right they do not advertise the Matrix anymore and my local dealer does not have ANY on his lot nor website says he can't get any due to the disaster that interrupted Toyota production.

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Re: (Blueridge9)

Postby star_deceiver » Sun Dec 11, 2011 10:15 am

For spending $30000 minimum for the base, I can think of much better vehicles I'd rather own for that price!

If you want another vehicle like the Vibe you're going to have to downsize or try your luck with a Jeep Patriot/Compass... at least if you want to keep the price under $20K...

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Re: (star_deceiver)

Postby jake75 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:01 am

Quote, originally posted by star_deceiver »
For spending $30,000 minimum for the base, I can think of much better vehicles I'd rather own for that price!

If you want another vehicle like the Vibe you're going to have to downsize or try your luck with a Jeep Patriot/Compass... at least if you want to keep the price under $20K...

Where did you get the $30,000 number?
I think you can still buy a 1.8L 2wd Matrix with AT and Power Package for less than $20,000. That said, time marches on and more and more alternatives arrive all the time. Even at $20,000 I am not sure I am a buyer of a current Matrix. In Jan. 2003 I got my 2003 Vibe 1.8L AT & Power package MSRP $18,690 for $13,701 plus tax, $14,718 out the door. In Jan. 2009 my 2009 1.8L Vibe AT & Power package MSRP $19,480 was 12,189 plus tax, $13,314 out the door. Both deals were no haggle - all courtesy of advertised dealer discounts , GM rebates and my GM Card rebates. It is amazing that the 2009 MSRP was actually less than the 2003 considering antilock disk brakes, stability control, traction control and 6 airbags were standard on the 2009. If not for the fires Sale price on the 2009 I probably would still be driving my 2003. I sold the 2003 with 33,000 miles privately for $9,500 so trading up 6 years cost me less than $4,000. [The 2009 also came with a free Garmin GPS that I returned to Target for $160 so that reduced my net cost even more.]

My son (3rd child arriving any day) just bought a 2012 Honda Pilot AWD with heated leather seats, sunroof etc. for about $33,500 plus tax. I am not in to paying $30,000 plus for a car and don't need all of that stuff but that Pilot is a lot of car for the money.

My 2009 Vibe has only 14,500 miles after 3 years, and we have a SWB 2007 T&C with about the same miles for longer trips. I turn 69 in a week. These two may last me the rest of my life.

2009 Vibe 1.8L Carbon Gray AT Power Pkg 1/12/092003 Vibe 1.8L Neptune AT Mono Power Pkg 1/27/03 [sold 2/2/09]2007 T&C SWB 7/31/07 "Broke people stay broke by living like they're rich. Rich people stay rich by living like they're broke."

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ColonelPanic
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Re:

Postby ColonelPanic » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:08 am

Surprisingly, I seem to recall seeing a Matrix for the first time in a looong time in the recent Toyotathon commercials. So they now admit they DO exist? (well not really, they never mentioned it but it was shown in the commercial.)

There are 7 within a 30 mile radius from me. (and that's including 3 Toyota dealers.) I guess if anyone wants another new car much like their Vibe, better buy now before they become unobtanium. Unless you want to seek out a beat up ex-rental on the used lot for the same price you could have bought a new one for.

03 Vibe base. Born 10/14/2002 06:07 AM
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Re: (jake75)

Postby star_deceiver » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:21 am

Quote, originally posted by jake75 »

Where did you get the $30,000 number?

Base price of the Prius V after taxes. I've seen the advertizing Toyota's been doing... looks like the only wagon they want under their roof.

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jake75
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Re: (star_deceiver)

Postby jake75 » Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:51 am

Oh - I thought we were talking about the Matrix. I really might have an interest in the new Prius Station Wagon - but the mpg isn't that great especially considering I don't drive that many miles. I could afford to buy it, but I didn't get into a position in life where I could afford that by making irrational uneconomical decisions.

2009 Vibe 1.8L Carbon Gray AT Power Pkg 1/12/092003 Vibe 1.8L Neptune AT Mono Power Pkg 1/27/03 [sold 2/2/09]2007 T&C SWB 7/31/07 "Broke people stay broke by living like they're rich. Rich people stay rich by living like they're broke."

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Re: (kostby)

Postby mkowdley » Mon Dec 12, 2011 10:42 am

Quote, originally posted by kostby »
So it turns out that NOT advertising a vehicle, no matter who builds it, and no matter how good it is, does NOT lead to more sales!
Who could ever have predicted that?
When Nick and I used to go to the SEMA expo regularly, every year we had to ask "How come there aren't any Vibe's in the GM booth"... and every year, the GM folks didn't really have an answer. I can't remember the last time that I saw a Matrix advert.

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Re: (mkowdley)

Postby jake75 » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:13 am

I will be 69 next week so my mind may be questionable but my recollection is that at the March, 2011 Columbus, OH Auto Show the Toyota display did not have a Matrix.
2009 Vibe 1.8L Carbon Gray AT Power Pkg 1/12/092003 Vibe 1.8L Neptune AT Mono Power Pkg 1/27/03 [sold 2/2/09]2007 T&C SWB 7/31/07 "Broke people stay broke by living like they're rich. Rich people stay rich by living like they're broke."

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Re: Re: (ColonelPanic)

Postby tpollauf » Mon Dec 12, 2011 11:25 am

Quote, originally posted by ColonelPanic »
Surprisingly, I seem to recall seeing a Matrix for the first time in a looong time in the recent Toyotathon commercials.

Yep And they hid it in the back row as the cars were driving down the road. If you blink your eyes you'll miss it. It took me a few viewings of that commercial to actually see the Matrix but it really is there.

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