GM apparently shafts NUMMI employees with severance package

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kostby
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GM apparently shafts NUMMI employees with severance package

Post by kostby »

Quote, originally posted by Autoblog »This didn't take long. Hot on the heels of NUMMI shutting its doors for good, reports are emerging that the plant's former workers aren't satisfied with their severance packages. Originally, employees were slated to see around $54,000 on average, depending on seniority. The newest workers were headed home with $21,000 in their pocket, while those who had put in the most years were walking away with closer to $68,000.But that was before the last round of negotiations between Toyota, General Motors and the UAW. According to new report, under the new deal, seniority no longer factors into severance compensation. As a result, former workers at the NUMMI plant will see $21,000 on average.While fingers are pointing every which way when it comes to who's responsible for the plant closing and the cut in severance pay, most of the blame has landed squarely on GM, and Toyota has handed over around $250 million for severance packages, while Detroit hasn't offered up a dime.Way to burn it down and p*** on the ashes, Government Motors.Link to Autoblog article --> http://www.autoblog.com/2010/0...age-e/
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Re: GM apparently shafts NUMMI employees with severance package (kostby)

Post by djkeev »

Ok, Explain to me the why of this.......A company closes a factory because it isn't making money any longer. Business is down, sales are down, demand is down.Why the heck does a company owe any worker anything?!?!?! It makes no sense what so ever!Hey, we're going to fire you because we aren't making money and haven't any work for you so here is a check for $68,000 !!! Welcome to the real world NUMMI, sorry your job is gone but that's life. If my boss fires me due to a decrease in customers I'll get NOTHING but a handshake and thank you!I think most of the workers in this nation are in the same boat as me.NUMMI workers, be happy you got anything, shut up and walk away.Dave
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Re: GM apparently shafts NUMMI employees with severance package (djkeev)

Post by KNINE »

Quote »According to new report, under the new deal, seniority no longer factors into severance compensation. As a result, former workers at the NUMMI plant will see $21,000 on average.Now that's what I call social justice. Very typical socialist attitude from a company that's 60% owned by the good old USSA. Gotta make sure eveybody is kept equal. We should change North America to West Europe.
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Re: GM apparently shafts NUMMI employees with severance package (K-NINE)

Post by jake75 »

I worked for Borden 1971-1995. At some point (I think it must have been the mid 80's) Borden dropped the defined benefit retirement plan for us non-union employees and instituted what was called a "cash balance plan". Those of us with a vested pension were credited with an amount of cash that Borden said was equivalent to our then earned age 65 benefit. I think I was vested to the extent of about $1,200 a month - if I had quit I could have got that amount when I turned 65. But staying on meant the conversion was mandatory. I think I got about $16,500 in my account in exchange for that monthly benefit. Supposedly I could have bought an annuity at that point in time for $16,500 that would have paid me that $1,200 a month at age 65. So why didn't Borden give me the option of having them buy that benefit with my $16,500 and let my cash account start at zero? Because I don't think they had the money - the pension may have been under funded, or maybe it was a way for Borden to get cash out of that pension plan - I don't know. When I was let go about ten years later that account with annual additions and earnings was worth $100,000. So that was my pension account after 25 years. There was an option for employees age 50 and over to keep their defined pension plan. That protected most of top management. At least the UAW members will not get screwed out of their promised pension benefits.
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Post by ponta2147 »

Hard to say how I feel about stuff like this. While I don't agree with bleeding a company dry (especially one that's going under and has no money anyway), pensions and things of that nature are usually offered as part of your entire benefits package, aka they are a part of your "income" that you consider when agreeing to the job, so being able to go back on that is almost like saying "well we agreed to pay you $50,000 a year but... yeah we're going to pay you $25,000 a year now." Not saying there aren't circumstances where this sort of thing isn't necessary (such as companies going under), but it is kind of the same thing.
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Re: (ponta2147)

Post by TONY TAT2 »

When I was hired at the CO I'm at now,thay kicked in 5% of my gross pay into a retirement account. Thay rolled that over into a 401K plan & stopped contributeing to it.So yes, I am now worken for less money than orginally agreed to.Thay also stopped the yearly raises.The CO'S view is "if ya don't like it,leave". We also lost 5 paid holidays.Thay blame the economy,but that hasn't stopped the owners & their children buyen new cars,haven numerous houses built etc.At the end of April we usually find out about our status for the upcomming year,I'm ready to hear another sob story & proably more cut backs !I aleaady made less money in 09 than in 08 due to "mandatory days off" without pay.Another Co idea.I can see the cost cutting ,but MANAGEMENT never get's to suffer.
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Re: GM apparently shafts NUMMI employees with severance package (djkeev)

Post by star_deceiver »

Quote, originally posted by djkeev »Why the heck does a company owe any worker anything?!?!?! It makes no sense what so ever!This^^^^I was hired a $XX/hr, that's it. If I'm fired I get nothing but a boot out the door. If I'm laid-off I get employment insurance from the government. The only way I'd get more money out of them is if I could prove that they fired or terminated me illegally.The average terminated employee at NUMMI will get around $21000, that's around half of my yearly earnings (give or take). If their contract says they get more and someone's holding out then get the lawyers and have a nice fight but otherwise, smile and take your check to the bank!!!
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Re: (TONY TAT2)

Post by 06pvibe »

Quote, originally posted by TONY TAT2 »When I was hired at the CO I'm at now,they kicked in 5% of my gross pay into a retirement account. they rolled that over into a 401K plan & stopped contributing to it.So yes, I am now working for less money than originally agreed to.they also stopped the yearly raises.The CO'S view is "if ya don't like it,leave". We also lost 5 paid holidays.they blame the economy,but that hasn't stopped the owners & their children buying new cars,haven numerous houses built etc.At the end of April we usually find out about our status for the upcoming year,I'm ready to hear another sob story & probably more cut backs !I already made less money in 09 than in 08 due to "mandatory days off" without pay.Another Co idea.I can see the cost cutting, but MANAGEMENT never gets to suffer.In a short sentence, that's my problem w/Management too.When growing up, I was taught to respect authority. But it's hard to do that when you know you are being played for the patsy to their quality of life.
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Post by Old Tele man »

...it's the "old" haves-vs.-have nots....management (manglement?), have -- employees, have NOT.
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Re: (Old Tele man)

Post by 06pvibe »

Well ya' got that right, Pilgrim. But it still sucks wet mummy (removed).
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Re: (06pvibe)

Post by ponta2147 »

Quote, originally posted by 06pvibe »Well ya' got that right, Pilgrim. But it still sucks wet mummy (removed).Now THAT'S an image!
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Re: (ponta2147)

Post by 06pvibe »

Quote, originally posted by ponta2147 »Now THAT'S an image! I wrote it only for you Michelle... only for you. j/k
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Re: GM apparently shafts NUMMI employees with severance package (kostby)

Post by scherry2 »

wow what a piece of crap article. NUMMI is 70% Toyota and 30% GM and you blame GM1. the UAW and NUMMI had a contract. Not GM and the UAW and not Toyota and the UAW. And that contract was very different than the one that GM and the UAW just negotiated. there was never any renegotations of the NUMMI contract while GM and the UAW did.2. if your not over 30 years old you have no comprehension of what working at a manufacturing (assembly) plant is like. And how much the union helps you.3. if your not older than 30 you also have no comprehension of what working at the same business for 30 years because you have no loyalty to anyone but yourself.just My $.02
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Post by kostby »

If NUMMI was 70% Toyota and the Toyota contribution toward severance packages was ~$250 Million, then GM should have kicked in their 30% or ~$105 Million. GM contributed zilch.
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Post by cptnsolo77 »

Well I dont know all the real facts, so its hard to develop a opinion. If it was in the contract to pay the employees "X amount", then somehow the "X amount" changed...isnt that promising one thing & doing another??? Bait & switch??? Reguardless if you agree the employees deserved severence or not, its simple as being a person of your word.....but like I said I dont know all the facts & have no idea what happened behind closed doors.
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Re: (kostby)

Post by jimincalif »

Quote, originally posted by kostby »If NUMMI was 70% Toyota and the Toyota contribution toward severance packages was ~$250 Million, then GM should have kicked in their 30% or ~$105 Million. GM contributed zilch.Yup, but GM went bankrupt, so if anyone kicked in $105M it would have been us taxpayers, since the feds decided GM was TBTF.
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Post by KNINE »

Correct me if my numbers are wrong, but doesn't the Fed own LIKE 60% of GM and the UAW own 20%. I thought the Democrats and the unions were the champions of the working man? So between the two, they own roughly 80% of GM. It appears to me they put corporate interest before the workers' interest.
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Re: (cptnsolo77)

Post by 06pvibe »

Quote, originally posted by cptnsolo77 »Well I don't know all the real facts, so its hard to develop a opinion. If it was in the contract to pay the employees "X amount", then somehow the "X amount" changed...isnt that promising one thing & doing another??? Bait & switch??? Regardless if you agree the employees deserved severance or not, its simple as being a person of your word.....but like I said I don't know all the facts & have no idea what happened behind closed doors.As painful as this may sound, this is new.... HOW??It's always been the haves vs. the have-nots. The UAW is part of the problem, though better for the employees than nothing at all.All I can say is that this country is long overdue for another revolution. I've been saying that for nearly 20 yrs now. Quote, originally posted by K-NINE »Correct me if my numbers are wrong, but doesn't the Fed own LIKE 60% of GM and the UAW own 20%. I thought the Democrats and the unions were the champions of the working man? So between the two, they own roughly 80% of GM. It appears to me they put corporate interest before the workers' interest. Do you REALLY think that the Dems, or the Reps have any real control over this situation? They are virtually the same thing. Both controlled largely by big business, special interests and trying the get THE vote. (And if you didn't get my meaning... but not intentionally trying to offend your sense of intelligence,) they are often one in the same anyway. True that years ago the Dems would have been all over this, but today.....?To me, Big Business is the bane of Democracy and of the capitalist concept.Frankly, I am appalled by this, but not in the least bit surprised by any of it.Here's one for you: We are in the deepest "recession" since the Great Depression of the '20's and '30's, right? Why is it that our (the little people) costs (telephone, electric, gas, fuel, etc...) keep going up during this time when many these companies continue to show massive profits? When the CEO's, COO's, and CFO's salaries have also gone up? Why stocks of these giants have gone up?One word, my friends... one word: GREED. Greed and trying to get one over on their competition in the stock market while the rest of us pay the premium. But the Market is stacked. One goes up one day, the other goes down. The other goes up the next day and the first one goes down. Its the bait and switch on a national level.I, for one, am sick of it. No matter what side you are on, American business and politics needs a MAJOR overhaul.
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Re: GM apparently shafts NUMMI employees with severance package

Post by ColonelPanic »

The real tragedy here is how people who were injured on the job ended up... The severance packages were based on whether you were working from October of last year up to the plant's closure, I believe. Those who were hurt and couldn't work through that time period got next to nothing, even if they've been with the company for a long time.
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Re: (TONY TAT2)

Post by jake75 »

Quote, originally posted by TONY TAT2 » We also lost 5 paid holidays.Thay blame the economy,but that hasn't stopped the owners & their. I forgot about Borden wiping out 1 year of vacation accruals. That helped their bottom line by at least 5%. Prior practice was you earned vacation in one year, took it the next. Changed to earning in current year. So on 1-1-xx you lost the 3 weeks vacation you had "earned" the prior year. Still got to take the 3 weeks but it was earned in the same year. Whammy only hit you when you separated or retired. That cost me something north of $5,000 when I was riffed.
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Re: (06pvibe)

Post by KNINE »

Quote, originally posted by 06pvibe »Do you REALLY think that the Dems, or the Reps have any real control over this situation? They are virtually the same thing. Both controlled largely by big business, special interests and trying the get THE vote. (And if you didn't get my meaning... but not intentionally trying to offend your sense of intelligence,) they are often one in the same anyway. True that years ago the Dems would have been all over this, but today.....?To me, Big Business is the bane of Democracy and of the capitalist concept.Frankly, I am appalled by this, but not in the least bit surprised by any of it.I'm flattered that you think I have a sense of intelligenge. Actually the whole point of my post was sarcasm. Heck, I wish I made $68,000 let alone getting that much as a severence package. The truth is, if I my company closed down, I'd be happy if I could get paid for my unused vacation time, and I've worked here for ten years. I'd consider myself blessed to get $23,000. Most get handed a pink slip.
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Re: GM apparently shafts NUMMI employees with severance package (kostby)

Post by kostby »

Enter 'NUMMI severance package' into a popular search engine, and see what you can find...In Chronological orderDecember 18, 2009 - NUMMI apparently bypassed the UAW and contacted workers directly with details of, not a severance package, but 'a retention bonus' for staying until production ends in March 2010 instead of leaving early, ranging from $13,000 to $43,000.Details here --> http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/sto...79217February 3, 2010 - UAW (allegedly) taking 3% of workers severance packageMakes allegation that UAW wants to hurt/embarrass Toyota over NUMMI shutdown, since UAW owns 17.5% of GM. Also alleges that UAW has NOT represented NUMMI workers effectively.Details here --> http://www.tundraheadquarters....ckage/March 17, 2010 - NUMMI UAW employees (I assume that's all non-management, but that's only an assumption) voted on a severance package deal on March 17th that INCLUDED seniority-based benefits, similar to the one mentioned in my original post. Quote, originally posted by abcnews »For workers who stay until the very end, the minimum bonus is $31,000, workers with 20 years experience who remain until the end will get between $60,000 and $70,000. Once you take out estimated taxes though, those "going away" checks do not look quite as good. The minimum bonus will be whittled down to $18,290 and the higher end bonuses will be anywhere from $35,400 to $42,000.One of the conditions was that the UAW apparently agreed to shut up and make no further statements about the shutdown.Quote, originally posted by abcnews »Wednesday morning, the president of UAW Local 2244, Sergio Santos, walked to the edge of the union's compound and said this statement would be his last."Under conditions set by Toyota, after the agreement is ratified, I will no longer be able to comment on the plant closing or its impact on our members," said Santos.The union has been highly critical of Toyota's decision to stop ordering cars and trucks from the NUMMI plant. The union has held demonstrations at Toyota dealerships and at car shows. And now, as part of the severance deal, the union members must agree to stop criticizing the company."We will be silent in the future, but we deserve better," said Santos.The union says it was able to negotiate a $28 million increase from Toyota's initial offer.Details here --> http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/sto...35059
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Re: GM apparently shafts NUMMI employees with severance package (kostby)

Post by IMakeVibes »

That article isn't completely correct. I'll add what I can, but as a former NUMMI employee, I am obviously biased. Several weeks after we got the news at the end of August '09 at this meeting that Toyota decided to pull out of NUMMI, and this would most likely mean the closure of the plant, rumors started circulating about the UAW and NUMMI negotiating 'closure effects' of the plant. This was rumored to include some sort of severance or retention payment sometime at or after closure. As long as I was at NUMMI, there were always rumors spread about all kinds of things. A lot of times the rumors were crazy sounding stores, but also a lot of times, they were stories about things that actually happened and were right on. So, it was definitely hard to know what to believe or not to in that place unless it came directly from the company or officially from the union, but rumors were nothing new to NUMMI. Of course, we all wondered what the company and union were working on. And, of course, many employees altered plans due to this. Many people that wanted to begin looking for jobs, weren't sure if they should or not because they didn't know what this 'package' consisted of. And without knowing, they of course didn't know if they would be in a better position for themselves by looking for and possibly taking a job before NUMMI closes, or waiting till the end to get laid off, get the package, and then look for another job, or do whatever they had to do. It didn't help that both NUMMI and the union weren't giving any information about what was being worked on...this just fueled the rumors.September, October, November, we heard nothing officially, only rumors. Many people showed up at the monthly union membership meetings to get information, only to be told that they are working on it and didn't have any information to share. And admittedly, this is our fault, all of us, as employees and union members. Someone at some point in time should have thought to make sure that there was information of closing effects of the company in the contract if this was something we wanted addressed. But this never happened, so this is what we ended up with. Finally, in the middle of December, the company held company wide meetings. They gave us an update on the negotiations that were going on between the company and union. At that time, what was being offered for all permanent employees who were on the job for at least 1 year was $15,000, plus 1 week of base pay for each year of service with a maximum of 18 years (so anyone working there 19-26 years got shorted in their final years), plus three weeks of base pay if the plant met specific quality targets from October 1, 2009 until April 1, 2010, plus three weeks of base pay if the plant met specific efficiency targets from October 1, 2009 until April 1, 2010. That was the maximum pay and it could be reduced for employees who weren't physically in the plant working, or on an approved leave which was really only vacation time and nothing else. We expected to hear something from the union soon after this meeting, but we didn't We took our holiday break in December and January, and still heard nothing from the union. For anyone not familiar with a union represented company, any proposal such as this, has to be presented to the union membership for a ratification vote before it can happen. Middle of January, the company called another meeting to update employees on the negotiations between the company and union. The only thing that changed from the last meeting is that the 18 year maximum cap was removed and the three week payments for quality and efficiency were increased to four weeks. One thing we were told was that this money was not guaranteed. We would only get it if (1) NUMMI continued vehicle production through April 1, and if anything happened to prevent this, even things that were out of our control (problems at parts supplier, major equipment breakdown, power outage, etc.) could affect getting this and (2) NUMMI was able to come up with the funding for it. So, if NUMMI didn't have the money, we didn't get it. We thought then we would soon hear something from the union, but still there was nothing. Many employees requested for the union to let us see details of the proposal and to be able to vote on it, but they refused. This led to a lot of frustration by employees and things got a bit heated at this meeting at the end of January. We didn't hear much else until Toyota's announcement at the beginning of March that they will contribute $250 million to assist NUMMI team members. Two weeks later, we were told that the company and union reached a final agreement on a retention package. We voted on this and ratified it two days later. The brief details of this package are as follows: for each permanent union team member who has been employed at least 1 year $21,175, plus 1 week of base pay for each year of service and prorated for the last partial year through April 1, 2010, and four weeks of base pay each for meeting both quality and efficiency targets through April 1. This comes to between approximately $30k and $60k for each employee. The union supposedly is going to take 1.5% from this and then of course it is taxed heavily as it is considered a bonus. This is no where near what GM employees were offered when they were laid off or took a buyout nor near what Toyota offered in '09 when they offered voluntary buyouts to all employees at their wholly owned plants. However, we weren't Toyota nor were we GM, we were NUMMI. And there was nothing in writing before this agreement that they had to give us anything upon closing the plant. I realize this and am satisfied with what I will reportedly be getting. Sure, I'd like to have a job. But if I can't have that, I'll take whats being offered and not complain. One unfortunate thing about this money is that a person had to actually be physically working in the plant from October 1, 2009 - April 1, 2010. So anyone out on any type of leave would have this amount reduced. Sure, I'll admit that, just like most places, NUMMI had some employees who would like to abuse the 'system' to their advantage and find ways to take leaves or get injured or whatever else they did. But there were also many on legitimate leaves, many hard dedicated workers, who, for whatever reason, were injured on the job, doing their job. They too will have to take a reduction in this pay. I don't know what a fair system for that would be. Possibly handle it on a case-by-case basis. I don't think it would be right for those who decide to abuse the system and not come to work and do not contribute to NUMMI's production be rewarded with a fill retention payment. However, at the same time, I do not think it is fair that good dedicated employees who come to work everyday and do their job for many years and are unfortunately injured in the course of doing their job, through no fault of their own, to be punished by having their payment reduced. And as far as the OP's article goes, it was NUMMI and the UAW negotiating this payment. Never GM, and unsure if Toyota was involved, I've heard both yes and no. Seniority still does factor into the payment and the very minimum a person will receive who was employed through April 1 is $21,175. Although it is true that GM did not contribute anything to this payment, and according to this article from November '09, they don't plan to pay for any of the other costs of shutting down or cleaning up NUMMI. Personally, I feel that since GM and Toyota ran that plant as a 50/50 joint venture, they should equally share in the costs of shutting it d
own. GM had something called bankruptcy. And while it may morally be the right thing for GM to pay, legally they may not have to.
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Post by kostby »

Thank you so much for your update! GM apparently used the bankruptcy to 'wash their books' of fiscal responsibility for NUMMI and other 'bad debt' related to layoffs and plant closures.AND YET, even after shedding all the 'bad debt', the 'new GM' STILL lost $4.3 BILLION last fiscal year. So what's another 105 million bucks (estimate I used earlier) to compensate former NUMMI employees?I'll guessing GM's lawyers billed them for more than that.Finally, I know it's not help finding a job, paying your bills, or providing food for your table, but please know that we are lifting up you and your co-workers in prayer each day. Bless you and thanks again for building all those quality vehicles that so many of us enjoy!
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Re: GM apparently shafts NUMMI employees with severance package (IMakeVibes)

Post by jake75 »

"And while it may morally be the right thing for GM to pay, legally they may not have to."Don't know - but maybe legally they are not allowed to. When you are bankrupt you cannot just voluntarily pay an obligation as that would prejudice other creditors.
2009 Vibe 1.8L Carbon Gray AT Power Pkg 1/12/092003 Vibe 1.8L Neptune AT Mono Power Pkg 1/27/03 [sold 2/2/09]2007 T&C SWB 7/31/07 "Broke people stay broke by living like they're rich. Rich people stay rich by living like they're broke."
IMakeVibes
Posts: 266
Joined: Wed Sep 03, 2003 5:11 am

Re: (kostby)

Post by IMakeVibes »

Quote, originally posted by kostby »Finally, I know it's not help finding a job, paying your bills, or providing food for your table, but please know that we are lifting up you and your co-workers in prayer each day. Bless you and thanks again for building all those quality vehicles that so many of us enjoy!Thank you, that is very much appreciated. And who says its not helping? There is power in prayer, I believe that!Quote, originally posted by jake75 »Don't know - but maybe legally they are not allowed to. When you are bankrupt you cannot just voluntarily pay an obligation as that would prejudice other creditors.You are right jake, you've got a good point there.On another note, in the last couple of days, we started receiving the general release of claims that NUMMI sent out to be signed and returned in order for the retention payment to be sent. First paragraph stated that the release is for any claims against the Company (NUMMI), Company's shareholders which included many Toyota divisions (I'm not going to name them all), their parents, subsidiaries, officers, directors, officers, trustees, etc., etc., etc., but specifically excluded Motors Liquidation Company and had no mention of GM at all.
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