Is Pontiac's future in danger?

[KNINE]

Article taken from Autoextremist.com See the link in my sig for more articles.Pontiac. Publisher’s Note: The entire raison d’etre for Pontiac is about to go right down the drain, it seems. The new fuel economy regulations on deck for 2020 have put a severe crimp in Pontiac’s plans to become GM’s rear-wheel-drive performance car division. Automotive News reported yesterday that the division lobbied hard for its own Trans-Am version of the new 2009 Chevrolet Camaro (due in-market one year from now) and was denied by GM due to the cost (estimated at $200 million) and the fuel economy regulations. This development has to really place the division’s viability going forward under severe scrutiny. The new rear-wheel-drive G8 held such promise for what at one time was GM’s most proud, march-to-a-different-drummer division. A big sedan with personality, performance and a point of view, the G8 pointed to an optimistic future for a revitalized Pontiac division, with its patented swagger and rebel attitude back as part of its fundamental equation. But without a stellar follow-up - the likes of which a new, properly-executed Trans-Am would certainly deliver - where does Pontiac go from here? Can Pontiac survive as a purveyor of chirpy, cheery, front-wheel-drive econo specials? Oh, Hell no. Pontiac is on the brink of extinction, and to pretend otherwise is pure folly. If GM can’t figure out a way to execute its original revitalization plan for Pontiac, then it should put it out of its misery before some marketing brainiac decides to brand it as GM’s “fun” division for the “smile” states. Ugh. – PMD

[Celtic_Curse]

IF they would turbo charge everything in their line up and become what the Sped division is to Mazda they could maintain their status and existence. In my opinion anyhow.

[GMJAP]

Pontiac should still survive as a performance division. The new fuel regulations just mean other GM brands (such as Chevy) need to get a good boost in their economy numbers.The consumer desire for performance isn't going away. GM just needs to get smart about managing their lineup.If they don't, and Pontiac goes away, someone else (not GM) will take advantage of this & fill the gap. It'll be GM's loss.

[ProtonXX]

GM should of made a trans am instead of Camaro. I always thought firebirds was better anyway.Yea Pontiac just need just need to stick in super chargers & intakes in their cars

[kunkstyle]

+1 to both statements.

[nate06]

I think they put there future in danger by getting rid of their nameplates and replacing them with this G crap. In the 80's they tried to do this, they copied the Euro cars and used numbers, didn't work then. I think the problem with the G serious is that the low end GM cars (like the G5) have always been cheaply made and that reflects on their other cars, giving them all G names will only increase this. Just my two cents, which may only be worth a penny and a half.

[KNINE]

This is why I don't like the feds meddling too much in the auto industry. Instead of people buying the cars they want, you get stuck with what the government dictates. I hate laws forcing the car companies to adhere to gas mileage standards. Sure these rwd performance cars might get poor gas mileage. So what? If people want to spend a bunch of their money that they worked for on gas, let them. Isn't that what freedom is about? If gas gets too high, people will stop buying these cars. It happened in the 70's. let us decide what we want to drive.

[nate06]

I am with K-NINE on this one. The Gov should stay out of it, the market will dictate when more fuel economy is needed. It works, I am proof, I drive a fuel efficient Vibe. Looks pretty cool too.

[KNINE]

That's why I bought my Vibe. Yes, I love it, but I have better things to do with my money than poor it down the gas tank. To be honest, if gas was still a buck, I'd still be driving my '74 Delta 88 convertible. Now that was one thirsty car.

[GMJAP]

I'm all for the fuel economy standards. Let the market try to take care of it? Then you have problems like the mortgage and credit mess. Now I'm paying for it with the Feds bailing out people & companies who made poor decisions, not to mention my retirement savings and other funds just took a 10% - 15% hit from the market. I'm paying through the nose because so many other people are dumb and they took the "market" with them.I don't want to go through another mess in a few decades again because of people's dumb decisions and the crisis it creates. At least with the fuel standards, the companies can "see it coming" and don't get broadsided when the crisis happens and the "market" corrects - having today's poor mileage vehicles all over the lots and in the design pipelines when gas suddenly goes through the roof and people stop buying them. Then the car companies will really be hosed.The US car companies in particular have become lazy, short-sighted whiners. Their *****ing about the fuel standards is more of the same, when they could instead take the lead on fuel-efficient vehicles, including performance fuel-efficient vehicles and take back market share. A brief look at automotive history shows that the American automakers seemingly always get suprised by changes in the market place. Then they get their butts kicked by the competition, and continue their long, steady decline. They need a "heads-up". (Remember, we're talking about the guys who lost $38.7 billion in one year! Reacting to market conditions? Not here!)I only wish the government had better regulated the mortgage companies....

[kostby]

{RANT ON}IMHO the ONLY things the government does well relate to national security and defense.Government regulation is most often the most expensive, least efficient means of solving ANY problem, real or imagined.Who pays for all this government regulation??? Taxpayers and consumers.And we pay for it over and over and over and over again.Once in direct income taxes to the federal government to pay all the legislators and bureaucrats to dream up the regulations.Again in use taxes to pay for the agencies designated to enforce the regulations.Again in price increases to the manufacturers as they raise product prices in response to the additional research and development needed to meet the regulations.Again in cost increases by the manufacturers as they increase product prices in response to the LIABILITY LAWSUITS related to the new products introduced to meet the regulations.Again in added social welfare costs because manufacturers can no longer afford to build products onshore, and move production to cheaper locations around the world, thus laying off workers.{/RANT}

[KNINE]

Quote, originally posted by GMJAP »I'm all for the fuel economy standards. Let the market try to take care of it? Then you have problems like the mortgage and credit mess. Now I'm paying for it with the Feds bailing out people & companies who made poor decisions, not to mention my retirement savings and other funds just took a 10% - 15% hit from the market. I'm paying through the nose because so many other people are dumb and they took the "market" with them.I don't want to stray too far from the topic, but just for the record, I'm against the government mortgage bail outs. If you're too stupid to know the conditions of the loan you're signing for, you deserve what you get.

[NibCrom]

I don't see how this news puts Pontiac in danger. It hurts the RWD revival, but GM is not going to kill the brand.

[KNINE]

From what I understand, Pontiac was going to design their future around rwd performance (I'm not sure how the Vibe was going to fit in). I guess they were hoping that was going to set them apart from the rest of the Big Three, including other GM products. Now they have to figure out to stand out in a majority fwd crowd. I heard that Chevy wanted to build the Impala as a rwd car until the fed came out with their new gas milage mandates. Very sad

[ZubenElGenubi]

If Pontiac absolutely needed a RWD, maybe they could bring back the Fiero?

[KNINE]

I think the Fiero would be cool with the modern Solstice engine. Maybe even turbo charged? But then again, I still like the Chevy Vega, so what do I know.

[NibCrom]

A new Fiero would be really cool. My Dad had one for like 12 years. Doubt they would make one though.

[GMJAP]

Quote, originally posted by kostby »{RANT ON}IMHO the ONLY things the government does well relate to national security and defense.Government regulation is most often the most expensive, least efficient means of solving ANY problem, real or imagined.Who pays for all this government regulation??? Taxpayers and consumers.And we pay for it over and over and over and over again.Once in direct income taxes to the federal government to pay all the legislators and bureaucrats to dream up the regulations.Again in use taxes to pay for the agencies designated to enforce the regulations.Again in price increases to the manufacturers as they raise product prices in response to the additional research and development needed to meet the regulations.Again in cost increases by the manufacturers as they increase product prices in response to the LIABILITY LAWSUITS related to the new products introduced to meet the regulations.Again in added social welfare costs because manufacturers can no longer afford to build products onshore, and move production to cheaper locations around the world, thus laying off workers.{/RANT}What planet do you live on? Who pays for lack regulation? Taxpayers and consumers! Witness the mortgage credit mess - it's tanking the ENTIRE economy!My TAXES are paying for bail-outs of dumb people and companies. The total cost of this mess is staggering. You can't reasonably argue that better regulation of the mortgage industry would cost more.Deregulation certainly hasn't helped the airlines nor their passengers. The last few years have seen some of the WORST service ever. Delays are at an all-time high!Here in Texas, deregulation of the electric utilities has been a mess too. Everyone's rates when up and service went down.That regulation somehow costs more is mythical propaganda.

[piecuch1]

You never know. Look what happened to Oldsmobile and Plymouth. How long were they around before they disapeared. I don't think Buick is doing so well either.

[NibCrom]

My prediction for next brand on the chopping block - Mercury.They are selling less units than Plymouth and Oldsmobile were selling when they got axed.

[piecuch1]

Yep, everything is built on a Ford platform just like the Plymouth line was.

[kunkstyle]

I thought mercury was already out of the game?

[coldmm803]

i think that Chevy should stick to trucks and SUVs and Pontiac should do cars. if Pontiac is to live on they just need to balance weight and power. also, use like a 130-150hp engine with FI and have minor boost kick in around 3200-3500rpm's and use 6 or 7 speed transmissions.my roommate has a jetta with the 2.0T which has 200hp and he gets better gas mileage commuting to school than i dobuick doesnt sell well here in the US but is doing well in China (just read this in my current Automotive Engineering magazine)

[MRCN RCE]

Quote, originally posted by K-NINE »From what I understand, Pontiac was going to design their future around rwd performance (I'm not sure how the Vibe was going to fit in). yeah that's what i thought too. someone here posted an article or something about it. i also wondered what would happen to the vibe after that change. maybe this means we'll see a 2020 vibe and about the autoextremist article, i don't mind being "chirpy and cheery" in my vibe. it gets me where i wanna go, and i look good doin it lol i don't think pontiac is gonna die. they just hafta rethink some things and (hopefully) they should be good

[GoLowDrew]

GM should kill off Saturn. What is the point of Saturn back then? Make people think it wasn't an American company? What is the point of Saturn now? Sell imported cars? No thanks.Bring back Oldsmobile please.

[NibCrom]

Quote, originally posted by GoLowDrew »GM should kill off Saturn. What is the point of Saturn back then? Make people think it wasn't an American company? What is the point of Saturn now? Sell imported cars? No thanks.Bring back Oldsmobile please. The chance of this happening is zero.

[GoLowDrew]

Quote, originally posted by NibCrom »The chance of this happening is zero.I know. I do see that Pontiac has lost it's soul. The ideas are all there to help Pontiac. But I really don't see a purpose for Saturn.