Crosstrek

Discussions about other vehicles other than the Vibe & Matrix.
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Caretaker
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Crosstrek

Post by Caretaker » Wed Jul 31, 2019 2:31 pm

Kinda like this website, this "others" section isn't getting a whole lot of attention lately, so I figured I'd post some things from time to time since I'm always trying out new car models. Yesterday I sat in the Crosstrek. The dealer happened to have one side by side with the Forester. Both were unlocked. The Crosstrek was a little lower (roofline) than I would want at my age, but was acceptable; unlike its sibling the Impreza which you need an elevator to get down into it. The Crosstrek's front seats were quite roomy and would make a good cabin area for long trips. In fact, the Crosstrek's driver's side allows for a little more leg wiggle room than that of the Forester. The sad part however, is that Subaru put the emergency brake handle where your knee cap will eventually reside when you are trying to get some blood moving as you move your leg off of the gas pedal. An emergency brake handle???? That's so 1960 at this point. Everyone is going to the electronic emergency brake hold button/lever.
The back seats were another story. After putting the driver's seat all the way back, I climbed into the back seat and found myself wanting out. Subaru did not appropriate additional space for rear passengers in the Crosstrek as they did with the new Forester. In the end, I like the size of the Crosstrek better, only as long as I wasn't entertaining adults in the back seat. However, I can't help asking myself why Subaru is still making the Impreza wagon when the Crosstrek really is just a "7.5 inch higher" Impreza.
For my next non scientific report, I'm waiting to see the new Mazda CX30. I'm hoping it will be a bit higher in stance than the CX3 although magazines are reporting that it is the same height. I'm also wanting to drive the new Yaris hatchback as it is a rebadged Mazda 2 with all the Mazda interior improvements. I'm doubting that I'll like the car now that I have read that it will have the stupid torsion bar for the rear wheels. Reminds me of the K cars; so 1980's.
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by joatmon » Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:14 pm

One thing about the crosstrek that isn't intuitive to me is that the auto tranny is rated at city/hwy 27/33 mpg, while the manual tranny one is only 23/29.

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Caretaker
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Caretaker » Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:56 am

ah the joys of coming up with ways of squeezing out more mpgs out of a machine that isn't radically different from a '69 Valiant with a slant 6 engine.
Will the manufacturers keep lowering the roof line until all cars look like Lotus' propelled by CVTs? I'm shocked that they haven't implemented ultra low rolling resistance tires on all vehicles, forcing winter drivers to take their chances or forcing them to buy a separate set of snow tires. But in the end, as I sit in dozens of cars to find my next purchase, I am constantly reminded of Homer Simpson, the common man, designing the perfect car for his brother Herb. The more cars I try out, the more I keep looking.
Live it up: There will be plenty of time to be old when you die.
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Bookworm » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:08 pm

Caretaker wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:56 am
ah the joys of coming up with ways of squeezing out more mpgs out of a machine that isn't radically different from a '69 Valiant with a slant 6 engine.
Will the manufacturers keep lowering the roof line until all cars look like Lotus' propelled by CVTs? I'm shocked that they haven't implemented ultra low rolling resistance tires on all vehicles, forcing winter drivers to take their chances or forcing them to buy a separate set of snow tires. But in the end, as I sit in dozens of cars to find my next purchase, I am constantly reminded of Homer Simpson, the common man, designing the perfect car for his brother Herb. The more cars I try out, the more I keep looking.
Well, try a Mazda 5, if you're looking at used. :)

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Caretaker
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Caretaker » Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:13 pm

agreed. I thought it would be a perfect car until I sat in the driver's seat. There isn't enough leg room for tall drivers. I wish they would let the seat travel back a bit further. Also, the 5 gets very poor gas mileage. Otherwise, the utility of the vehicle is fantastic.
Live it up: There will be plenty of time to be old when you die.
** 2009 Vibe: 1.8 liter automatic **
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** 2007 Honda Fit Sport **

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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Bookworm » Fri Aug 02, 2019 8:07 pm

Caretaker wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 12:13 pm
agreed. I thought it would be a perfect car until I sat in the driver's seat. There isn't enough leg room for tall drivers. I wish they would let the seat travel back a bit further. Also, the 5 gets very poor gas mileage. Otherwise, the utility of the vehicle is fantastic.
Weird. We're getting perfectly reasonable gas mileage. It's not quite as good as my Vibe, but considering what it is (plus living in "Summer Weight Pollution Reducing Fuel" Houston), it's far better than the last two vehicles she's had. I'd have to go back and have her check the logs, but I think she's getting at least 24-25 mpg.

As for the tall drivers - they had a redesign year. The ones before that (2009-10, for example) my wife complained about that exact issue - wanting it to go an inch or so further back. The 2013 - no problems.

[edit]
Interestingly enough, she had a similar experience with my Vibes. The 2003, she could drive, but it wasn't very comfortable. The 2007, she's comfortable in. (legwise)

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Re: Crosstrek

Post by tpollauf » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:51 am

I may have to consult with Caretaker if/when my wife gets another/different vehicle. She really wants a new Subaru Forrester. I told her no new car unless she gets a job !!! :o She hasn't worked in nine years and still has a good 10+ years left in her working career (she's at 54 years young now). We'd sell the 2009 Pontiac G8GT and have friends lining up to take it if/when that day comes. It's never seen winter weather, garaged all the time, and is 100% original. She is tired of driving something different when the winter weather is bad. Different being one of my Vibes or the newer Silverado truck! She really has a rough life :lol:
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by joatmon » Sun Aug 04, 2019 9:55 am

Caretaker wrote:
Fri Aug 02, 2019 3:56 am
ah the joys of coming up with ways of squeezing out more mpgs out of a machine that isn't radically different from a '69 Valiant with a slant 6 engine.
... I am constantly reminded of Homer Simpson, the common man, designing the perfect car for his brother Herb. The more cars I try out, the more I keep looking.
Still, I do want something that gets better mileage than a Canyonero

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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Caretaker » Sun Aug 04, 2019 11:30 am

Comic Book Guy: "Best.........Car...........Ever"
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by joatmon » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:30 pm

I sat in a crosstrek today, and I agree that the rear seats aren't quite enough for a person above average size. Outback was ok, I'd prefer a bit more headroom. Really liked the forester, which also has great visibility out the back looking over the shoulder from the driver seat. Surprising how many SUV/hatchbacks have quite restrictive direct rear viewing.
The particular dealership I visited was more pushy than I was willing to put up with. Not as bad as some I've been to though

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Caretaker
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Caretaker » Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:13 pm

The Forester is an outstanding vehicle for sure. The visibility is unparalleled. I'm assuming Subaru fixed the software glitch in the steering (jittery on almost all their new models). I just don't want to buy something that "big" to hold my umbrella. I've been a small car guy all my life. I'm hoping the CX-30 will have large enough glass for viewing out. In the Crosstrek, didn't you find it goofy to have the emergency brake handle right there in the way? They just seem so pointless in this day/age. Does anyone completely lose their brakes and need to rely on the emergency brake?? Seems so 1960's. By the way Joatmon, there's a Fitgerald Auto Mall down here too. I found that kinda funny. Is Jack still alive?
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by joatmon » Fri Aug 09, 2019 2:26 pm

Caretaker wrote: In the Crosstrek, didn't you find it goofy to have the emergency brake handle right there in the way? They just seem so pointless in this day/age. Does anyone completely lose their brakes and need to rely on the emergency brake?? Seems so 1960's.
Honestly, I didn't notice the emergency brake handle. Between banging my head getting into the driver seat, and having no legroom in the back, I didn't spend much time in it. Also, the crosstrek I was in didn't have rear seat back adjustment. I don't ride in the back much, but it does happen. My 03 Vibe has plenty of room in the back, but on a long haul it would be a lot more comfortable if the seat backs reclined, even a little. Another major gripe of mine about the Vibe rear seat is what I refer to as the "ratcheting seat belt of doom", which only tightens over time, like some inquisition tool. but I digress.

Actually, about 5 years ago, I burst a brake line in a Ford Ranger while driving. It was rather surprising, having the brake pedal suddenly offer no resistance. I was able to get home on that emergency brake. Otherwise, I haven't used the emergency brake since I last drove a stick
Caretaker wrote: By the way Joatmon, there's a Fitzgerald Auto Mall down here too. I found that kinda funny. Is Jack still alive?
That's weird, I had no idea they were down there too. I see there's even a wikipedia page about Fitzgerald auto Mall ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitzgerald_Auto_Mall ), which currently says Jack is the CEO. Hopefully he's still alive, maybe there's still time to get into his will ;) Unlikely though, I've never done any business "the Fitz way", whatever that is

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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Bookworm » Fri Aug 09, 2019 7:23 pm

Caretaker wrote:
Fri Aug 09, 2019 1:13 pm
The Forester is an outstanding vehicle for sure. The visibility is unparalleled. I'm assuming Subaru fixed the software glitch in the steering (jittery on almost all their new models). I just don't want to buy something that "big" to hold my umbrella. I've been a small car guy all my life. I'm hoping the CX-30 will have large enough glass for viewing out. In the Crosstrek, didn't you find it goofy to have the emergency brake handle right there in the way? They just seem so pointless in this day/age. Does anyone completely lose their brakes and need to rely on the emergency brake?? Seems so 1960's. By the way Joatmon, there's a Fitgerald Auto Mall down here too. I found that kinda funny. Is Jack still alive?
The emergency brake is also the 'Use on an incline' brake. If you park on a slope, you set the brake to keep your vehicle from rolling off if the transmission pawl should break, or someone knocks a standard into neutral.

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Caretaker
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Caretaker » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:17 am

a function that can easily be accomplished by an electronic parking brake switch found on new cars today. I wonder which is more cost effective to install on the assembly line?
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Bookworm » Sat Aug 10, 2019 8:30 am

Caretaker wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:17 am
a function that can easily be accomplished by an electronic parking brake switch found on new cars today. I wonder which is more cost effective to install on the assembly line?
What is it with people forgetting that electronics _fail_? I'm in IT. I'm intimately familiar with the known fact that if all of your systems depend on electronics, or power, when you have no power, you have nothing.

That's the main reason why drive by wire (and fly by wire) hasn't really taken off. Physical linkages are much more dependable, as well as more obvious when they fail. When _everything_ else fails, you can usually steer your car and use the emergency brake. (As was mentioned by someone who did that earlier in the thread)

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Re: Crosstrek

Post by joatmon » Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:29 am

Although the merits of electronic vs mechanical emergency parking (e/p) brake is sort of off topic, I'm with Bookworm on this. I like having the security of the mechanical e/p brake. Goes along with "It's important that car be able to go, but its more important that it be able to stop" Supports the primary rule of driving, from which all other rules are derived: Don't hit anything.

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Caretaker
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Caretaker » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:13 pm

...he, he....can't be off topic when there are only 10 active people on the site..........
As for the e-brake, all I can say is that there are a LOT of manufacturers producing $25,000 and higher vehicles that are putting a LOT of people at risk then. The electric brake seems to be the way all cars are going. Just an observation of someone who sits in a lot of vehicles.
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Bookworm » Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:51 pm

Caretaker wrote:
Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:13 pm
...he, he....can't be off topic when there are only 10 active people on the site..........
As for the e-brake, all I can say is that there are a LOT of manufacturers producing $25,000 and higher vehicles that are putting a LOT of people at risk then. The electric brake seems to be the way all cars are going. Just an observation of someone who sits in a lot of vehicles.
I agree. They're putting a lot of people at risk. However, remember that this is also the group of people that allowed Congress to mandate explosives in front of people's faces in a passenger vehicle. (The same group in Congress that seem to think that a backup camera is better than a large rear window)

They're also the same group of manufacturers that allow middle management to dictate that cars can't be maintainable, short of pulling the engine every time you want to change a belt.

So, logic isn't their strong point.

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Re: Crosstrek

Post by ColonelPanic » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:04 am

I will admit my knowledge about how these systems work isn't the greatest. But I've read things on the internet about DIY serviceability with electronic parking brakes so it must be true. :D

For now, when doing a brake job I prefer my $20 caliper wind-back tool over the several thousand dollar scan tool that is apparently required on some vehicles with electronic parking brakes.

They are convenient though, and certainly save some space (along with those pushbutton/joystick/rotary shifters! :lol:)
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Bookworm » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:34 am

ColonelPanic wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:04 am
I will admit my knowledge about how these systems work isn't the greatest. But I've read things on the internet about DIY serviceability with electronic parking brakes so it must be true. :D

For now, when doing a brake job I prefer my $20 caliper wind-back tool over the several thousand dollar scan tool that is apparently required on some vehicles with electronic parking brakes.

They are convenient though, and certainly save some space (along with those pushbutton/joystick/rotary shifters! :lol:)
You bought a -tool- to do it? I always used a bent screwdrivers.

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Re: Crosstrek

Post by ColonelPanic » Sun Aug 11, 2019 9:37 am

I sure did. It makes quick work out of it - just a few cranks of the thing and done. :D
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Bookworm » Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:21 am

This thread reminds me of what Engineers are generally taught - but few learn it.

"Don't try to reinvent the wheel."

In this case, to me, an emergency brake should be a brake that will work when -nothing- else does on the car. That means that it must not be linked to other systems that aren't absolutely critical. (In this case, the rear brakes and the wheels.)

Same with steering. I'm not really thrilled with the idea of steer by wire either. I can steer if the power steering goes out. I can pull the emergency brake if the master brake cylinder explodes. With fully electronic systems - if your alternator or battery dies... You're screwed.

I live in Houston. Imagine that you're in a car with fully electronic locks, and electronic windows. You end up in flood water (happens too often).

Now, your electronics are shorted.

How do you get out? Your doors won't open, because they're locked. You can't unlock them because there's no power. You can't roll down the windows - there's no power. Most people don't have an object handy that can strike a window hard enough, in a small enough space, to shatter it.

Soo.... You drown, if you ended up on I-10 under 8 feet of water.

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Re: Crosstrek

Post by joatmon » Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:05 am

I've got a big C-clamp I use to compress brake calipers.
Sorry to sAy my vibe is old enough that the toolbox always lives in it, and the C-clamp is in there. Once had a caliper seize on the highway in the middle of nowhere, before I started packing tools in the car. ended up using blunt force trauma to make the car driveable again. I remember it was nice to not always feel like I had to carry the tool box everywhere. Like Caretaker, I've been looking at new cars. I don't think the Crosstrek is for me though.
Bookworm wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:21 am

"Don't try to reinvent the wheel."
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Bookworm wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 10:21 am
Your doors won't open, because they're locked. You can't unlock them because there's no power.
I don't know how it is in brand new cars, but my first gen vibe has both power and manual door locks. No juice, I can still unlock the door from the inside.

Windows are a different story. but for under ten bucks you can stock one of those emergency window breaker/seat belt cutter tools

i'm not sure I'd put up with manual windows just for emergency flood egress. My first vibe had manual windows, this one has power. Don't think I could go back, unless it was for something truly classic.

My first car was. The only thing electronic in it was the radio. That car could survive an EMP. But bad metal back then, was more bondo and rust than steel when it went to the junkyard

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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Caretaker » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:32 pm

Yep, these guys keep "reinventing/redesigning" junk that doesn't fit me. I just got done watching this youtube video on the CX-30. It did NOT make me feel warm and fuzzy. I was wondering if the people surrounding the car were all Fred Gwynne on stilts or whether the stupid car was the typical "take the elevator down two levels to get in." I'm just too old to shoehorn myself into a car anymore and don't want to have to worry about cracking my head as I get in/out. I also don't want to feel like I'm driving a Lotus with no ability to squirm around on long trips.
So as of this moment in time, should my Vibe crash/burn/dive over a cliff (no cliffs where I live now) I would go and buy another Elantra Touring. I'll go see the CX-30 when it comes out, but debuting a new crossover at the same height as the CX-3 is just plain stupid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u_nPK5sUn2w
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by tpollauf » Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:59 pm

joatmon wrote:
Sun Aug 11, 2019 11:05 am
was more bondo and rust than steel when it went to the junkyard
:lol: Yeah sounded like my first car .... '72 Plymouth Duster, slant six/auto :o At only five years old the undercarriage rusted out so bad that I lost both of my torsion bar supports. Within 10 years the entire car was scrap metal :x I agree with all others here about a "true" emergency brake. By definition EMERGENCY should have workable devices when all power, electric, hydraulic fail, thus allowing you to have very limited (but still) control of the vehicle.
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Bookworm » Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:35 pm

Yes - the Vibe has a manual lock override. The Electronic locks drive me nuts. Locking me in as soon as I start the car, etc. I frequently start the car to vent the heat out, and then get out again - or to grab a forgotten item. And I find out that I've been locked in by the damned car manufacturer.

I'd like to see a 'no frills' around-town car. Roll down windows, no air bag, abs, etc, etc, etc - but a hydrostatic transmission on reduction gears. Low top speed, no shifting, tiny size (think kei car), but perfect for those towns like NY or Boston, where you can't drive fast on anything but a freeway at 3 AM, and most people drive tiny streets and have no parking.

My first car was a 1981 Ford Escort. First car with a catalytic converter, and had _hard_ plastic vacuum hoses (which melted easily under the frequent oil fires later in life). Replacing the timing belt was a four to six hour job, because you only had about an inch or so of clearance to get to all of the bolts. I got good at replacing water pumps on that sucker. Oil fires? Well, there were a few issues. One is that the repair manual gave the wrong torque for the head gasket bolts. So, we'd been overtorquing it for years, which caused leaks. The other is that as the CC was an afterthought (they were hoping that Reagan would delay it another year), it was _directly_ underneath the oil filter. Any quick oil change place had to wrap rags around their arm to keep from frying, and obviously, oil ended up on it.

In a lot of ways, I still miss some things about it. 1) the side vents could be opened up directly to outside air. No pre-heated engine air. 2) The width of the door was the width of the back. If it would physically fit in the cargo section, it _would_ go through the door. 3) You could replace the entire head in about 45 minutes, with practice.

As for car height? I can't make many suggestions. I have short legs and a long torso, which makes car shopping a trial for me.

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CX-30

Post by Caretaker » Tue Sep 03, 2019 10:27 am

I went to Mazda and they told me that the US won't see the CX-30 until spring of next year, after Europe and Australia get all of their deliveries.
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by jamsandwich » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:56 am

The Impreza wagon was on our (or at least my) shortlist when we replaced my wife's Hyundai Elantra Touring (we ultimately got a Corolla sedan, as it was at least a year ahead in terms of offering safety features as standard and therefore stood out as quite a bargain relative to its rivals).

I know I've read that height is a bit of a requirement for you, Caretaker, so I understand the appeal of the Crosstrek... but I couldn't see myself paying C$3,000 for extra ride height. I really like the Forester, though... and when my Vibe has crossed into the "too much trouble" department* that will be on my list of potential replacements.

I quite like the Kia Forte5 (only up here in Canada right now), and the dimensions of the Niro (although I'm skeptical about Kia/Hyundai's hybrid systems). Also don't mind the newer RAV-4.

*I am trying not to hasten my car's departure. It's developing some rust and I think that might be what will kill it, but it does need some work I am trying not to put off. Brakes, etc., and probably some new fluids beyond the oil. I have a CEL I'm still evaluating whether I want to worry about (catalytic converter). And I disconnected the A/C recirc for that stupid GM actuator that has a tendency to go in the climate control system.

Really the only non-maintenance item that matters is the CEL. Feels damn good for an 11-year-old car.

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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Caretaker » Mon Oct 28, 2019 4:32 pm

thanks for that writeup. I think cars like the Forte 5 and CX-30 are off my list even before they are available for me to see. I just can't justify buying these "low to the ground" cars. Every time I walk up to a car, I feel like it is 1972 and I'm King Kong hovering over a Chevy Vega. I recently sat in the Hyundai Tucson and Kona only to find that like the Forester-Crosstrek matchup, the Kona and Crosstrek actually have more right leg wiggle room than their larger siblings. These ridiculously large center consoles block the driver's leg which for me is a no go for long trips. I need to go sit in the Kia Nero and maybe some others to see if they can knock the Crosstrek off the top of my list. Posting your experiences with the newer models are a big help to me
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by zbyers » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:57 am

The new Crosstrek Hybrid is going to be using Toyota's hybrid system. Then you'll get THE best AWD setup, and THE best hybrid setup. I am highly considering this in a few years when I have to upgrade.
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Re: Crosstrek

Post by Caretaker » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:51 am

That is good news. When is it coming out? The current "hybrid" is a plug in hybrid according to cars.com. I'm assuming you are referring to a self regenerating hybrid version? For me, the best news is that it will end my monthly searches as to whether Toyota is going to come out with a 2020 Prius V as the spy photos from last year seemed to indicate.
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jamsandwich
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Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 9:48 am

Re: Crosstrek

Post by jamsandwich » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:26 am

Argh, the Prius V. It endured in Canada for a year or two after they quit selling it in the U.S., but it's not here anymore. I do hope they come out with another one. It was really high on our list, but we made a concession to thriftiness when we bought my wife's new car. Though even the non-hybrid Toyotas are quite efficient now (the 2020 RAV-4 in FWD sacrifices about 2mpg vs. her 2018 Corolla).

The Niro always surprises me. It feels to me substantially roomier than the Vibe and always looks larger, but in reality it's quite close in its exterior dimensions.

zbyers
Posts: 884
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: Crosstrek

Post by zbyers » Tue Oct 29, 2019 11:43 am

Caretaker wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:51 am
That is good news. When is it coming out? The current "hybrid" is a plug in hybrid according to cars.com. I'm assuming you are referring to a self regenerating hybrid version? For me, the best news is that it will end my monthly searches as to whether Toyota is going to come out with a 2020 Prius V as the spy photos from last year seemed to indicate.
oh dang, i didn't realize it was a plug in... they are using the plug in from the prius prime (which is a great option too)

I was recently told to checkout the 2016+ RAV4 hybrids. Those are regen hybrids, and still come with AWD.
(2) '03 Bases, '04 GT, '04 AWD, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '17 Frontier CCLB
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Caretaker
Posts: 1701
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2003 4:11 am

Re: Crosstrek

Post by Caretaker » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:07 pm

yeah, the word from the auto press is that the Crosstrek's plug in technology is pretty bogus and not worth the hassle for 17 miles of battery only travel and a ton of storage space taken up by the batteries. I'll pass. Still clicking my heals for the Prius V......bring it Antie M.........
Live it up: There will be plenty of time to be old when you die.
** 2009 Vibe: 1.8 liter automatic **
** 2010 Hyundai Elantra Touring **
** 2007 Honda Fit Sport **

zbyers
Posts: 884
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2014 6:12 pm
Location: Sheffield, Pennsylvania

Re: Crosstrek

Post by zbyers » Wed Oct 30, 2019 3:06 am

Caretaker wrote:
Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:07 pm
yeah, the word from the auto press is that the Crosstrek's plug in technology is pretty bogus and not worth the hassle for 17 miles of battery only travel and a ton of storage space taken up by the batteries. I'll pass. Still clicking my heals for the Prius V......bring it Antie M.........
Yeah, for the minimal range, I would pass. The prius prime electric only range is something like 27 miles, My daily commute is 24 miles. In theory, I would commute all week long on battery only. However, they are designed to start the engine up and cycle through on occasion, to keep things from gumming up. Either way, the massively improved 50+mpg vs. the 04 GT at 30mpg on a nice day, makes me highly consider it when prices come down in a few years.
(2) '03 Bases, '04 GT, '04 AWD, '06 AWD, '07 Base, '17 Frontier CCLB
Byerscrew Garage, GenVibe Facebook, How-To Index
Everything You Need To Know About the Pontiac Vibe

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