Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

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BenWA
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Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by BenWA » Sun Jan 17, 2016 5:39 pm

Maybe some of you will find this useful. It's a union website's page that tells you how to identify which tires are union, therefore USA, made:

http://www.aflcio.org/Blog/Other-News/H ... Made-Tires

If you print it, it comes out nicely condensed (as if in "printer view") so it doesn't waste your paper/ink. (Check it in Print Preview first to see). I will be making use of that when I'm due for a new set of tires.

EDIT: Here is another one that points out which B.F. Goodrich plants make Michelin tires in the US, as well as other plants that may make tires under different brands: https://www.boilermakers.org/resources/ ... made_tires
Last edited by BenWA on Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by Vulcan05 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:37 am

Thanks. Proud to support my Union brothers and sisters.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by BenWA » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:06 pm

Vulcan05 wrote:Thanks. Proud to support my Union brothers and sisters.

The tires I'd like to buy for low rolling resistance (LRR), high mileage warranty (6yr/60k) and excellent wet surface grip (I do live in the NW after all) while listed as made in the US, they don't seem to be union made.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp ... toModClar=

These might be a good alternative, though not LRR. (6yr/45k) They are considerably cheaper (almost $40 a piece less) and potentially union made, since they are listed as US made.
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp ... toModClar=

EDIT: The Michelins might be union made too after all. I found another page that points out that some BFG plants make Michelin tires: https://www.boilermakers.org/resources/ ... made_tires

I'll add that link to the initial post too.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by 10vibe » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:04 pm

A few other links I found when trying to compare some tires. Found out those Goodyear Viva 3's from Walmart are made in Lawton, Oklahoma. If wondering, no I would not buy them again. Do not like their performance on wet blacktop. Not sure about snow and ice at this point.

http://www.tiresafetygroup.com/tire-dot ... lant-code/

http://www.tiresafetygroup.com/tire-dot ... d-country/

http://www.belletire.com/how-to-read-a-tire-sidewall

http://barrystiretech.com/dotcoding.html

http://www.barrystiretech.com/rmadotcoding2009.pdf
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by BenWA » Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:03 pm

TireRack tells you what country a tire is made in, down to the specific size of a specific model. You have to find the table listing all the sizes available for the model, then it gives a country code. Some can be made in 2 of 3 countries though, so you'd have to physically check the tires you are buying to know where they were made.

Buying USA made tires to help US workers who get paid well (ie: unionized), but then buying them from Wal-Mart? The poster child of underpaid, overworked and forced unpaid overtime employees by one of the richest companies in the US, who literally sends an anti-union team to harass you on the job if any talk of unions comes up and you are suspected of supporting it? :roll:

People point out how illegal that is... but at walmart an employee is expendable. If you don't play ball, you can be replaced by someone else. They always have a huge stack of job applicants they can pick from. Sure you can try suing walmart but even assuming in 2 or 3 years you win your case, what do you for a job until then? You'd be long ago fired. So, people work there out of survival pretty much. And a lost lawsuit is chickenfeed for Walmart anyway if it keeps them union-free. Over in Europe, a chain they bought out was already unionized and it stayed that way because people there won't put up with the horrible treatment that the average US worker does.

Then the whole problem with the sweatshops in China and the middle east to keep prices low....
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by tpollauf » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:58 am

OK Ben, hopefully nobody takes offense to the majority of your last post NOT pertaining to the original subject :roll: I too am a strong union man. United Association Local 50 Toledo Ohio, trustee at large. Getting back on track with this subject, I purchased my winter tires for the Vibe four years ago and went with the Kelly Navigator tires. I wasn't too concerned with tread-wear as they will only see 3000-5000 per year and if they last 10 years then I'll be happy. My biggest concern was buying them from a USA plant where they were made. I accomplished that and am pleased so far. Thanks for the union info so far.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by BenWA » Sat Jan 23, 2016 9:19 am

tpollauf wrote:OK Ben, hopefully nobody takes offense to the majority of your last post NOT pertaining to the original subject :roll: I too am a strong union man. United Association Local 50 Toledo Ohio, trustee at large. Getting back on track with this subject, I purchased my winter tires for the Vibe four years ago and went with the Kelly Navigator tires. I wasn't too concerned with tread-wear as they will only see 3000-5000 per year and if they last 10 years then I'll be happy. My biggest concern was buying them from a USA plant where they were made. I accomplished that and am pleased so far. Thanks for the union info so far.
The only people I could see taking offense to it are walmart stock holders. :lol:

Anyhoo yeah, a USA made Michelin 45k mile tire would probably be fine for me, assuming they last 6 years/45k miles like they are warrantied. The 60k ones might be SLIGHTLY better in performance by 0.1 (according to tire rack's ratings), but they cost $160 more per set (plus the extra tax) which is about $20 short of buying 2 more new 45k BF Goodrich g-Force COMP-2s.

If I can find a "buy 3 get one free" deal on the Premier A/S, then I'd consider them more; but than again, Buy 3 get 1 free on the g-Force COMP-2 would be even better.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by 10vibe » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:09 am

Regional or national tire shops that have a high likelihood of carrying in stock the tire I have on my car and can cover my road hazard needs takes precedence over nationality or politics for me. Life's events are situational and decisions are fluid to the time, location and finances involved. If the chunk of metal that goes through the tire is near an exit that has a Walmart, there you go.

When "time is of the essence" and financial concerns are NOT involved, then quality and performance and wear factors will take precedence over nationality and politics.

Union and U.S.A. made does not necessarily make it a better and safer tire. Brand loyalty does not either. On a side note, I am a little upset that Goodyear is building a 500 million dollar tire plant in Mexico instead of the United States. Plenty of communities were promising all kinds of incentives for them to locate the plant in the United States.

I'm sure for a lot of us, buying a re-skinned and re-branded with an American nameplate "Toyota Corolla Matrix" hatch assembled in the now defunct Union ran NUMMI played at least a psychological role in our purchase decision. And yes, I'm aware that the actual Matrix production plant was in Ontario, Canada, and still non-unionised. The Tesla plant located in the old NUMMI (originally a GM plant) in Fremont, California is still not unionised.

Some info on where Toyota production has moved to (I believe all non-union), including castings and engines:
http://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/ ... ssippi.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_T ... facilities
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by BenWA » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:02 pm

10vibe wrote:Regional or national tire shops that have a high likelihood of carrying in stock the tire I have on my car and can cover my road hazard needs takes precedence over nationality or politics for me. Life's events are situational and decisions are fluid to the time, location and finances involved. If the chunk of metal that goes through the tire is near an exit that has a Walmart, there you go.

When "time is of the essence" and financial concerns are NOT involved, then quality and performance and wear factors will take precedence over nationality and politics.

Union and U.S.A. made does not necessarily make it a better and safer tire. Brand loyalty does not either. On a side note, I am a little upset that Goodyear is building a 500 million dollar tire plant in Mexico instead of the United States. Plenty of communities were promising all kinds of incentives for them to locate the plant in the United States.

I'm sure for a lot of us, buying a re-skinned and re-branded with an American nameplate "Toyota Corolla Matrix" hatch assembled in the now defunct Union ran NUMMI played at least a psychological role in our purchase decision. And yes, I'm aware that the actual Matrix production plant was in Ontario, Canada, and still non-unionised. The Tesla plant located in the old NUMMI (originally a GM plant) in Fremont, California is still not unionised.

Some info on where Toyota production has moved to (I believe all non-union), including castings and engines:
http://toyotanews.pressroom.toyota.com/ ... ssippi.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_T ... facilities
Without going political, I will say that you can buy USA made, avoid Wal-Mart and still have nationwide access to road hazard protection. A few such chains include Sears, Discount Tire, as well as TireRack (though I'm not sure how that works)

Going political, I will say that people have no right to fuss about the state of the economy if they purposely, willingly and are able financially to CHOOSE to buy foreign made goods over domestic. They are part of the problem. But really it's a problem with the politicians people are willingly electing that pushes the agenda where profits matter more than anything else. It's a vicious cycle that most people can't seem to grasp. If a few dozen people hold 90% of the wealth, refuse to pay good wages so the rest have much of nothing, that means the average person has less money to spend on goods, so they need cheap imports, which means in order to keep costs down, companies have to go overseas as a way to keep costs down AND to keep the huge profits for themselves and not share it with others.

You can only drive costs down so far before you slit your own throat as a business and Walmart has started to reach that point. They have begun voluntarily raising wages because their own workers can't afford to buy their cheap horrible junk anymore. Walmart gets extra cheaply made products such as TVs and tires that are lower quality than other retailers might get, like Sears or Discount Tire, despite name them carrying name brands like Sony or Goodyear. Why do you think laptops and TVs all have different model numbers now even if two different stores carry the same basic model? The cheaper stores like Walmart get the product with lower specs/lower quality. Walmart computer models often end in "wm" in the model number. They are specially built worse than others for Walmart's bottom line.

Cities literally give walmart millions of dollars in subsidies to open a store which kills all competition in the city and drives local business bankrupt. Will the same city give you or I a $25,000 subsidy to open a grocery store? Hell no. It's Walmart corporate welfare at taxpayer expense, only to ruin people's own locally owned businesses that may be decades old, forcing them to either work at Walmart or find a job someplace else. So much for the American dream of owning your own store. You cannot own a Walmart. Anything else just stomped on and buried. This extends to the likes of Lowes, Sears etc as well but at least avoiding the worst of the worst is a step in the right direction.

Despite being a horrible racist asshole, at least Henry Ford understood a good basic economic principle about paying your own workers a good wage so they can afford to buy what they are making for you to sell. It's possible to have your workers be truly middle or even middle-upper class income while you are still having more money in profits than you know what to do with. People have lost sight of that reality out of pure, unfettered greed.

It goes something like this: "I might be rich one day, down with taxes on the rich!!!". Yeah, good luck with that on your 28 hour "full time" job at Walmart with forced unpaid overtime (you will be fired and replaced the next day by a new applicant you don't), with no benefits, except of course for food stamps, section 8 and medicaid subsidized by the average tax payer. (Yes, Walmart considers 28 hours "full time"). Considering Walmart is the biggest retailer/employer in many small towns that they have ruined, funded by the taxpayers of the town not only to build, but also to support their overworked, underpaid workers in the form of public assistance, people have no choice but to become a slave to walmart for not only a job, but for their day to day needs like groceries and clothes.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by 10vibe » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:05 pm

Benwa,
Lets see if I understand your rules for everyone:
1. You can only buy a product that is made in the United States by Unions
2. It can be foreign owned as long as has a Union
3. Price, performance, quality, life, safety is secondary to Union made
4. Some materials can be foreign, %?
5. Walmart is forbidden under all circumstances, double standard or not
6. If you break any of the above rules, you have no right to complain or have opinion

Do I have to also vote for Bernie Sanders? Or is it Donald Trump?

It sure is a sad day in America when I have trouble distinguishing between a potential Bernie Sanders supporter and a Donald Trump supporter. :o :mrgreen:

One thing is for sure. Karl Marx, Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler and Che Guevera are probably sitting on the back of Jimmy Hoffa in hell, shovelling down burnt popcorn watching this pathetic show. that's all I got to say about that :twisted: ......I kid, I tease :lol:
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by BenWA » Sat Jan 23, 2016 7:59 pm

10vibe wrote:Benwa,
Lets see if I understand your rules for everyone:
1. You can only buy a product that is made in the United States by Unions
2. It can be foreign owned as long as has a Union
3. Price, performance, quality, life, safety is secondary to Union made
4. Some materials can be foreign, %?
5. Walmart is forbidden under all circumstances, double standard or not
6. If you break any of the above rules, you have no right to complain or have opinion

Do I have to also vote for Bernie Sanders? Or is it Donald Trump?

It sure is a sad day in America when I have trouble distinguishing between a potential Bernie Sanders supporter and a Donald Trump supporter. :o :mrgreen:

One thing is for sure. Karl Marx, Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler and Che Guevera are probably sitting on the back of Jimmy Hoffa in hell, shovelling down burnt popcorn watching this pathetic show. that's all I got to say about that :twisted: ......I kid, I tease :lol:
1. Not "only buy a product that is made in the US by unions", because for one you'd end up with an empty house since about 90% of everything is made outside of the US now. But if you can buy a comperable US made product and it's within your means to pay the potentially higher price, why the hell would you not? To not do so means you don't care about your neighbors and your own country.

2. The problem with foreign owned by US/union made is that while they do pay fare wages, which is to be applauded, the profits to some extent go overseas. However, Japanese corporate culture is better than the US's, especially in the auto industry, which is why they are so much more successful with better quality vehicles. They don't get a new CEO every ~5 years. Without constan management change, a set course is stuck to and it ends up in success. When you keep changing management, you end up with the Pontiac Aztek which even GM admitted was a horrible ugly mess of too many different ideas combined into one monstrosity.

3. Trying to equate quality to union made is silly. A company could be union and could make the worst junk in the world. But at least the workers would make a fair wage for the work they do. It wouldn't necessarily be the worker's fault if the quality of the materials they use are poor.

4. These days it's not so much about "they can be" as they "have to be" for lack of US manufacturing of the materials anymore. It's impossible to buy a completely USA made TV and has been for probably 20-25 years. It's possible to buy a "USA assembled" TV, however.

5. Walmart is what it is, a Godzilla eating Tokyo corporation. People think Walmart is wonderful because of the low prices, until you point out the slave wage Chinese workers in literal sweat shops, the overworked, underpaid workers, Walmart's history of hiring illegal immigrants and LOCKING THEM IN THE STORE (domestic slave labor) until they finished cleaning, the millions in tax payer funded subsidies handed out to walmart to build their stores, the workers paid so little they have to rely on food stamps; and walmart even recommending their workers apply for food stamps because they are aware their workers are dirt poor because they don't pay them enough. Then the reply said people give is "yeah, but it's cheap prices!" and I say, "but at what cost?"

6. Now you're just being facetious.

It's funny should mention Stalin, seeing as how Koch Brother's father, Fred C. Koch, was invited to and granted entry to Russia by Stalin himself in the 1930s to help him set up oil operations. With the money he got from Stalin, he built his own wealth in the US in oil too and left it to his two sons, who are buying US elections in favor of "no government" in the long term. So in a way, Stalin's money is funding the Republican party, and has been since at least the 1960s when he (Fred Koch) was against the civil rights movement and he began attempts to dismantle the federal government. His sons are carrying on his legacy, and to some extent Stalin's as well.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by 10vibe » Sat Jan 23, 2016 10:55 pm

Don't know much about Koch, but after reading a little about him, it says he was a fervent anti-communist and was for limited government, so he was not all bad! Starting to kind of like him.

So we can kind of go back to where I was before. Best product for my needs at that given time wins out. If it also is made in America all the better. If by a Union, great. I always keep made in America in mind when there is a choice, but it has to be competitive. Buying an inferior product makes no sense. It perpetuates inferior products while prolonging uncompetitive businesses that will fail. The consumer loses and innovation and improvement stagnates.

When it comes to where to buy, that is complicated too. Read how Kmart bought Sears and changed their name to Sears Holding and the Asset pawn game used to do it before and after the purchase by both companies. Sears holding, by the way, will probably be bankrupt in a couple years.

Walmart is not alone in the pressures they have used in dealing with companies and pricing. They just did it more ruthlessly and more successfully, while running leaner. However you define it, 40 hours is a full time work week when bringing in overtime rules. The cutback to 28 or less hours is a direct effect of ObamaCare and it's 30 hour rule.

Nobody I know likes Walmart and neither do I. It is not exclusive in anybody's shopping needs that I know of. I am not going to completely boycott them either. Sorry, but they are not the cause or disease, they are a symptom of where things were going. They just accelerated the process. Those Mom and Pop stores are not coming back to any large extent. It's sad. Eventually Walmart will get too fat and lazy and get knocked down a few pegs too in all likelihood.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by BenWA » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:13 pm

10vibe wrote:Don't know much about Koch, but after reading a little about him, it says he was a fervent anti-communist and was for limited government, so he was not all bad! Starting to kind of like him.

So we can kind of go back to where I was before. Best product for my needs at that given time wins out.
So you like a racist, anti-American dickhead who supported Stalin? He wasn't limited government, he was ANTI-government. Besides, if you want to see what limited government is like in the 21st century, go to Google Images and look up Somalia.

And you acknowledge openly you care about yourself more than your fellow countrymen. Yep, typical right wing mentality.

They have been saying "Kmart/Sears will be bankrupt in a few years" for about 10 years. Until then, I will continue to give them business.

Wrong, the 28 hour thing was pre-affordable care act. It has been since at LEAST 2005.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by BenWA » Sat Jan 23, 2016 11:24 pm

Actually I had it slightly wrong, it's 34 hours. What I heard in an old documentary was 28, but it must have prior to 2002 that the former employee worked there. In other words, prior to anyone ever hearing of Obama, Walmart was pulling this crap to avoid benefits doing 28 hours as full time. Enough with blaming Obama for every (removed) thing you dislike just because you side with the rotting corpse of a pro-Stalin racist.

--

Wal-Mart says that "Wal-Mart's 'full time' status begins at 34 hours per week, not 28, for associates hired after 2002." Before 2002, however, Wal-Mart's definition of full-time WAS 28 hours per week, and was raised in 2002 to 34 hours per week in order to raise the bar for healthcare eligibility for their employees - as the raise in hours coincided with the increase in eligibility requirements for healthcare. According to Wikipedia, "In 2002, Wal-Mart increased the waiting period for enrollment eligibility from 90 days to 6 months for full-time employees. Part-time employees must wait 2 years before they may enroll in the plan, and they may not purchase coverage for their spouses or children. The definition of part-time was changed from 28 hours or less per week to less than 34 hours per week." The change was not done to benefit more full-time employees, but to discourage more employees from being eligible for Wal-Mart's healthcare plan.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by 10vibe » Sun Jan 24, 2016 12:22 am

BenWa,

Lighten up. You need to relax before you stroke out with your irrational hatred and inability to have a civil discourse with people of different perspectives. You might want to go through some sort of deprogramming too or stop listening to the trash that is getting you so worked up. I was trying to be light and jocular in our conversation. You made a lot of assumptions there that are unfounded and untrue.

I was referring to the Department of Labor definition of Overtime and overtime pay.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime_pay.htm
and the affordable care act 30 hour rule:
https://www.irs.gov/Affordable-Care-Act ... e-Care-Act

Your other complaints are not worth my time. We are done here.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by BenWA » Sun Jan 24, 2016 1:17 am

10vibe wrote:You might want to go through some sort of deprogramming too or stop listening to the trash that is getting you so worked up.
You mean reality?
10vibe wrote: I was referring to the Department of Labor definition of Overtime and overtime pay.
http://www.dol.gov/whd/overtime_pay.htm
and the affordable care act 30 hour rule:
https://www.irs.gov/Affordable-Care-Act ... e-Care-Act
Bull. You said plainly that Walmart's 28 hour policy was due to the Affordable care act. I completely debunked that. And now you have actually further debunked it yourself. Yes, you just debunked yourself.
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by 10vibe » Sun Jan 24, 2016 2:05 am

Okay Benwa,
you provoked me to respond.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_P ... king_hours

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_P ... king_hours 3.1.7

http://www.bing.com/search?q=affordable ... FD3610FE47

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... 5/5370055/
http://www.bing.com/search?q=walmart+cu ... QBLH&ghc=1

Multiple articles talking about it and how they keep suspending the enactment of the mandate, but companies and governments were transitioning to the eventual policies all along.

My words:
...”However you define it, 40 hours is a full time work week when bringing in overtime rules. The cutback to 28 or less hours is a direct effect of ObamaCare and it's 30 hour rule.”....

I could of made it clearer by saying , “official government rules define a work week”..... instead of “you”.

I'm sorry if I got a little short with you and suggested that you seek help or whatever I said. You are fine just the way you are.

Now how are we reading this two different ways? How am I debunking myself?

And let me make it clear if it was not clear in the other posts. I always consider purchasing made in America if it is available, competitive in function and reasonable in pricing. It is one of the reasons I bought an actual American owned and made in an American Plant Goodyear tire, instead of the other Goodyear's that were made in Peru and Chile, which probably rates higher in performance and owner satisfaction. It is why I got the Pontiac Vibe instead of the Toyota Matrix or the Honda Fit I was looking at. It is why I have bought many things, some I regret!

EDIT: I see a problem with communication here. We are talking about two different things and time periods. I was talking what the actual rules were for both the Government and Walmart at the time of the affordable care enactment. You are going back in time when Walmart first raised full time starting at 34 hours. I am talking about Walmart at 34 hours and then lowering a lot of their employees to working below 30 hours to stay clear of the mandate and hiring more part time workers.
There is also a downward pressure on workers per shift and the utilization of more part time workers (less workers per shift) to counteract the rising costs of increased pay..You wonder why there are 20 checkouts and three open?
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by tpollauf » Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:42 am

Did I mention that I found and purchased FOUR U.S.A. made Kelly Navigator tires for winter use on my Vibe? I think that's what this post is all about :roll:
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Re: Link: How to easily find union (USA) made tires

Post by BenWA » Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:41 pm

tpollauf wrote:Did I mention that I found and purchased FOUR U.S.A. made Kelly Navigator tires for winter use on my Vibe? I think that's what this post is all about :roll:
I ordered some Michelin Premier All-Seasons from Sears (which should be USA made, based on TireRack's info for that exact same tire). I will be getting them installed in the first week of February. :mrgreen:

Reading the info about the "Michelin Promise Plan", the TIRES come with FREE roadside assistance tire changes and towing related to flats, for 3 years!

"A qualified service professional will change your flat and install your spare tire or provide towing at no charge. In case of a flat tire, simply call 1-888-553-4327 and a qualified professional will change the tire or provide towing up to 150 miles for free. Available 24 hours a day, 365 days a year in the U.S. and Canada."

http://www.michelinman.com/US/en/why-mi ... -plan.html
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